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View Full Version : What wideband sensor and gauge to buy?



Davezj
28-04-2011, 11:48 PM
What wide band O2 sensor and gauage to buy

LC-1, PLX ?

what sort of price am i expecting to pay.

I have a flashable ECU and cables to flash it.
I have EvoScan to monitor.

do i remove the factory O2 sensor and fit the wide band sensors in it's place, i presume the factory ECU will now use the wide band sensor output and evoscan will monitor it as well.
or do i add the wideband O2 sensor and leave the factory one in place for the ecu to carry on using and the only thing that monitors the wide band sensor is evoscan.
i am not sure how it is configured.

Gly
29-04-2011, 01:36 AM
well which one you want depends on what you want from it and if you get a gauge for it or not

the plx is simpler to setup, and cheaper, does not require calibration, has 2 outputs wideband and a emulated narrow band and nothing more than this

the lc1 has a couple of other features on top of this , data logging and the wideband can be programmed
it can be very sensitive earthing and setup is abit more involved, and requires manual calibration


either unit can be inserted instead of the factory sensor, and the narrow band is just wired in instead of the original sensor output,
and the wide band is hooked upto a gauge or other suitable display

psbarham
29-04-2011, 08:02 AM
if you want reliability then the plx, if you want to replace everything on it every year or so then go for the lc1,

Ok the plx can do a few of the trick bits the lc can, but the plx just works, mine has been utterly reliable.

Beastlee
29-04-2011, 08:35 AM
My LC-1 has been fitted over a year nowwith no issues. Evoscan can do a calibration on it too so not as difficult as you may percieve.

Nick Mann
29-04-2011, 09:31 AM
The drawback of the plx is that it is more tricky to log the wideband output. However, so many people have issues with the innovate stuff I am glad I bought my plx. My map 2 allows me to log the wideband and I have the dm100 gauge that displays stuff from several sensors. I'd happily buy the plx again.

Wobble
29-04-2011, 09:59 AM
what sort of price would be expected for a wideband?

Davezj
29-04-2011, 10:51 AM
Great info guy and it nice to see a wide variety of responces with the resoning behind the the choice.

So my next question is where to buy from and how much roughly.

I want to start adjusting my ecu map so i want something i can log the AFR's directly to evoscan and have visual display on the dash via some kind of gauge that will be an imediate warning if i have tweeked some wrong in the ecu and my AFR's start leaning out, and hopefully have a reliable setup so i am not having to continually adjust the wideband setup just to get a correct reading.
I don't think i will be doing any more than this with it.
Thanks in advance guys

Wodjno
29-04-2011, 10:55 AM
My LC-1 is around 4 years old and i have had no issues with it whatsover.
The Vee has 2 installed on his car for at least 2 years + and as far as i know, he has had no issues either.

Davezj
29-04-2011, 11:01 AM
well which one you want depends on what you want from it and if you get a gauge for it or not

the plx is simpler to setup, and cheaper, does not require calibration, has 2 outputs wideband and a emulated narrow band and nothing more than this

the lc1 has a couple of other features on top of this , data logging and the wideband can be programmed
it can be very sensitive earthing and setup is abit more involved, and requires manual calibration


either unit can be inserted instead of the factory sensor, and the narrow band is just wired in instead of the original sensor output,
and the wide band is hooked upto a gauge or other suitable display

So for the PLX do you need something else installed in the for evoscan to monitor the wideband out, or can you connect a gauge to this output and evoscan, or it one or the other.

LC-1 how often do you need to run calibrations, evry time you log anything, evry week, month or year.

Are there any other wideband sensors and gauges i should be considering in the mix.

Wodjno
29-04-2011, 11:20 AM
I calibrate by LC-1 as and when feel! Free air calibration can be done on the move. Just a matter of going a long at a reasonable speed (say 70mph) Leave in gear and take your foot off the loud pedal.. The car is now not using any fuel and only free air will be travelling through the engine and exhaust. Give it a few seconds and then push the calibration button. Job done. Continue with the loud pedal :D Start to finish 10-15 seconds..

Beastlee
29-04-2011, 11:25 AM
I normally fire my calibration off after the car has been sat overnight (12hrs + normally). A simple case of switching Evoscan on and hitting the option to calibrate LC-1. Again 10-15secs, then start up and dive away :)

Davezj
29-04-2011, 11:40 AM
So if you drive and don't calibrate on a normal daily basis the output will not be that accurate at all, and the AFR'on the gauge in the car will not be a true representation of the exhaust and will be way off.
Or wil it be close enough to be meaningful but for a true reading e.g. Differentiating between 12.1 ,12.2, 12.3, always calibrate and you should get a reliable response.

foxdie
29-04-2011, 11:42 AM
I too am in the market for a Wideband o2 sensor kit, I've been leaning towards an LC-1 kit as they can be had for about 129 quid on ebay sans gauge (will post link when I'm back on my laptop).

Maybe we can get some kind of group buy on?

Wodjno
29-04-2011, 11:48 AM
So if you drive and don't calibrate on a normal daily basis the output will not be that accurate at all, and the AFR'on the gauge in the car will not be a true representation of the exhaust and will be way off.
Or wil it be close enough to be meaningful but for a true reading e.g. Differentiating between 12.1 ,12.2, 12.3, always calibrate and you should get a reliable response.

????? There is no need to calibrate on a daily basis.. Once every 6 months, once a month, once every 5000 miles ? Whichever takes your fancy. Like changing oil, some change every 4500miles, some 3000miles and some 15000miles..
The handbook i think recommends, on installation, then after 3 months and twice a year or every 10000 miles for turbocharged car.. But as with everything it comes down to common sense and the use that the car is getting.. If it's only doing 4-5 mile journeys round town most the time, then calibration i would say is better done more frequently etc etc etc

Davezj
29-04-2011, 11:55 AM
Thanks glenn i was a bit concerned that i would be doing it every day to get anything meaningful out of the setup.
Wonderful info guys thank for all the input.
Yes would interested in putting a group buy together to get a wide band sensor.

foxdie
29-04-2011, 12:33 PM
Here's the one I mentioned earlier: INNOVATE LC-1 WIDEBAND CONTROLLER + 02 BOSCH SENSOR (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/300384590378)

It's currently listed at £1290 as the seller has been away racing and only just got back, they'll put the price back down to £129 shortly, I've sent him a message asking when this'll be.

Davezj
29-04-2011, 01:11 PM
This is link to one of many PLX kits for sale. but a lot of links to youtube and other gauges, ect.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=290438863988

just make it clear that both of these kits do not include gauges you pay extra for that.

does the OBDII gauge work with our OBDII protacol, i would assue not.

swinks
29-04-2011, 04:25 PM
Well, I have Innovate, but next time I'd go for a PLX.
Paul witnessed how PITA job is to find out what's been broken when it's malfunctioning. Apparently got my wideband running OK again, but stuck with not needed spare LC-1 controller.

The Vee
29-04-2011, 04:29 PM
My LC-1 is around 4 years old and i have had no issues with it whatsover.
The Vee has 2 installed on his car for at least 2 years + and as far as i know, he has had no issues either.

Yep, one of them is 4 or 5 years old and the other about 2. They have never missed a beat. Installation of the good earths and where earthed is the key. No short cuts, follow the manufacturers diagram and it should give you faultless service. One of mine replaced the narrow band to the ecu the other runs a gauge and the innovate digital display thing which also logs. That was an extra bit of kit though. I find it one of the best additions to the car as you can alter things on the PC. Eg the one running to the ecu, you can set it to keep the ecu happy with the right voltage switching but running an AFR of your choice (within reason) when in closed loop.

Nick Mann
29-04-2011, 11:28 PM
Dave - the link you posted in post #17 is for a funky gauge, not a wideband setup.

The wideband setup is here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLX-SM-AFR-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Bosch-wideband-sensor-/290439194308?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item439f8666c4

The only issue with the PLX is that it is tricky to log without buying an additional bit of kit. I don't know anyone who has had issues with a PLX wideband setup, but there are quite a few that have had issues with Innovate.
It should be possible to knock something up quite easily if you are an electronics whizz that allows you to log the PLX, as it outputs 0-5 volts depending on the AFR and as far as I know it is a simple relationship, something like 0v = 10.0 AFR and 5v = 20.0AFR. So 2.5V is an AFR of 15.0 (Don't quote me on those values, but you get the gist...) As I understand it, computers are very easily able to plot an analogue voltage output with the right simple cable and software. I don;t understand it well enough to tell you how though!!

Wodjno
30-04-2011, 12:26 PM
Yep, one of them is 4 or 5 years old and the other about 2. They have never missed a beat.
So that means mine must be 5-6 years old then /help Still going strong /yes

The Vee
30-04-2011, 12:38 PM
Wouldn't be surprised. Think my first one came from one of your group buys? Think I've always had it on the TT and that as the VR2 just celebrated it's 5th anniversary. How times fly!!

Gly
01-05-2011, 05:57 AM
So for the PLX do you need something else installed in the for evoscan to monitor the wideband out, or can you connect a gauge to this output and evoscan, or it one or the other..

you can connect the wide band output to what ever will accept it as an input,
(gauge, aftermarket ecu, or some sort of converter for pc input)

i originally owned a lc1, it died after a week and the rma took almost 2 months,
i sold my replacement unit and bout a plx with gauge for pretty much the same money

plx has been in my car for 2-3ish years no probs

kinkyafro
15-05-2011, 10:51 PM
Howabout this as another option INNOVATE MTX-L (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=innovate+mtx&_sacat=0&_odkw=innovate&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313)? I was on the verge of getting an AEM UEGO until NJ pointed out that it's narrowband emulator wasn't programmable. I'm pretty much sold on this already as the evo forums suggest it works the same as an LC-1 with evoscan.

Nutter_John
15-05-2011, 10:54 PM
forgot about this new version Rich , all in one unit like the AEM but with twin output and programable

So gets a :2thumbsup from me

foxdie
15-05-2011, 11:05 PM
Howabout this as another option INNOVATE MTX-L (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=innovate+mtx&_sacat=0&_odkw=innovate&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313)? I was on the verge of getting an AEM UEGO until NJ pointed out that it's narrowband emulator wasn't programmable. I'm pretty much sold on this already as the evo forums suggest it works the same as an LC-1 with evoscan.

I've spotted these on ebay and have been thinking about one too. Maybe we can negotiate a group buy? That said, I've noticed xenonlv is unstable, they pull stock mid-listing by increasing the price tenfold so you don't buy.


forgot about this new version Rich , all in one unit like the AEM but with twin output and programable

So gets a :2thumbsup from me

Sorry John, please could you rephrase that, your meaning isn't clear, are you recommending the MTX-L?

Nutter_John
15-05-2011, 11:08 PM
Yeah Jason thats a 2 thumbs up , meaning I like the product as it offers the usage as a visable gauge like the AEM but also the programable side of the old LC1

They change the price when they are unable to supply the products , to be honest they could just end the listing but as they have probably paid for a 30 day listing they may have stock back in before the end

foxdie
15-05-2011, 11:13 PM
Yeah Jason thats a 2 thumbs up , meaning I like the product as it offers the usage as a visable gauge like the AEM but also the programable side of the old LC1

Sweet, might have to get one then, it definitely has the serial out compatible with EvoScan?


They change the price when they are unable to supply the products , to be honest they could just end the listing but as they have probably paid for a 30 day listing they may have stock back in before the end

That makes sense, have you bought from them before though? I'm just curious as to their reliability.

Nutter_John
15-05-2011, 11:18 PM
Yep they have a 3.5mm serial line to connect to a lappy

Not bought from them but look at the wifi interface ifor PC's and Iphones they do for the lc-1 and it states to contact them as they are not released yet

kinkyafro
16-05-2011, 12:47 AM
I've spotted these on ebay and have been thinking about one too. Maybe we can negotiate a group buy?

I'd be up for a group buy provided it came off fairly quickly - maybe ask how much for 5 and see if we can get three others?

Wodjno
16-05-2011, 05:44 AM
Only had a quick look at this MTX kit on my mob. But it looks like a renamed and revamped Innovate XD1 kit ? These were on the go 6+ years ago.. Not read the bumf on it yet though!

Wodjno
16-05-2011, 06:23 AM
Only had a quick look at this MTX kit on my mob. But it looks like a renamed and revamped Innovate XD1 kit ? These were on the go 6+ years ago.. Not read the bumf on it yet though!

Looks like they have now fitted the controller part(LC-1) inside the gauge itself. So just make for less cabling /yes

foxdie
16-05-2011, 08:58 AM
Spoke to them, they're up for group discounts, I'll ask them for how much for 5 MTX-L (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/300506017816)'s.

foxdie
16-05-2011, 09:30 AM
Here we go! 10% discount for 5 gauges.

That'll make them £136.36 delivered, I'll put up a group buy thread now.

Beastlee
16-05-2011, 09:45 AM
Hmm, who is that with Jase? I'm interested but I can get VAT free which is obviously a bigger discount, however if it helps make the numbers I could take one for the team LOL

foxdie
16-05-2011, 09:51 AM
Hmm, who is that with Jase? I'm interested but I can get VAT free which is obviously a bigger discount, however if it helps make the numbers I could take one for the team LOL

That's with xenonlv (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/xenonlv/) on eBay, doubt they'll help you in this circumstance.

Atik
16-05-2011, 10:57 AM
From what my puny likkle brain can understand, this kit is a full kit and needs nothing more to display AFR readings?

Nutter_John
16-05-2011, 11:02 AM
Yep Atik looks like even your tiny little brain has got it correct :P

The only other thing is for you to decide if you are going to replace the stock lambda and run the MTX in narrowband emulate mode , or to have a new bung installed and have the second lambda fitted in the de-cat

foxdie
16-05-2011, 11:03 AM
From what my puny likkle brain can understand, this kit is a full kit and needs nothing more to display AFR readings?

Yep totally self contained, it includes a Bosch LSU4.2 sensor and the controller is built into the gauge, all you need to do is wire up power and ground to get it working.

You will however have to reprogram one of it's outputs to simulate narrowband and connect that to the old o2 sensor loom, so your ECU knows what fuel to supply. I can assist with that if required :)

Edit: or as John says, fit another bung further down the exhaust for this sensor and keep your old narrowband sensor for your ECU.

Atik
16-05-2011, 11:13 AM
Ok, thats me decided then... I will have one /yes

That takes me to the magic number of 3 gauges to get fitted in the car, which is my project for the next few weeks.

Beastlee
16-05-2011, 03:18 PM
Innovate tend to include a bung with their kit if that helps.

I had one included in my LC-1 package when I got that, may not be the case here though.

Atik
16-05-2011, 03:20 PM
The details on the Innovate site lists that a bung is included /yes

kinkyafro
16-05-2011, 09:55 PM
Crikey that was fast £15 off something I was planning to buy anyway bargain! Well done Foxdie.

Davezj
06-03-2018, 09:36 PM
thread from the dead time.


i have just tried to get a MTX-L wideband repaired by innovate and the company line is NO THEY WILL NOT REPAIR THEM if they have a 4.2 wideband sensor fitted rather than the newer 4.9 wideband sensor. They say the 4.2 is not suported any more and it would be to costly to repair.

so i now have two dead gauges which can not be repaired.

swinks
12-03-2018, 01:06 PM
How do you know it's gauge at fault not sensor?
You can buy generic 4.2 sensor very cheap off ebay now.

Davezj
14-03-2018, 09:40 AM
The screen is dead does not light up at all on one of them.
The other is a very irratic display jumping around all over the place.
I have fitted known working sensor into it and it makes no difference to the display. Still irratic.


Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

swinks
14-03-2018, 12:14 PM
Bugger.
It seems that controller in MTX is fried up, but before jumping into any conclusion, check carefully wiring coming from MTX, maybe it's been broken. Had similar case in a past when AEM display gone mad, and it was signal wire broken just near sensor.

Amonlym
14-03-2018, 06:42 PM
Maybe a solder joint issue too? worth a check - maybe the clock is contagious haha!
Might it be possible to pull the binary file from the intermittent controller to then allow you to rebuild the boards and re-flash them?