Kenneth's ECU Mods V1.03

[Kenneth]

Previous Versions Thread (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?58517-Kenneth-s-ECU-Mods-(1.02-IMPORTANT-UPDATE))

Version 1.03

3D NLTS - 3D map of where to cut RPM to when shifting
CEL on KnockSum - Will light up the CEL when knocksum exceeds a pre-set value (defualt = 3)
Tidied up the XML and grouped modifications.


NLTS
Below is the NLTS map which I made for testing.
NOTE: It is configured for my gear ratios which are not standard for 1st and 2nd.

46967
On the left, the Gear units are a calculation which generally work out around what gear you are in.
The calculation is done as follows: (speed * 256) / (RPM / 10)
Be aware that speed and RPM are the RAW values as logged for RPM2Byte (?) and for speed in kph ( kph / 2)

You can log the results of calculation this by modifying some place in the MUT table to retrieve F641.

Because of the lack of precision in a number of factors (speed for one is very coarse) it is very difficult to pinpoint exactly what gear you are currently in, so this calculation gives a range. That range changes per gear.
This number is used as the lookup for Gear on the NLTS table.
The other used is speed.
The result of the lookup is the desired RPM limit.
The result is checked against Normal RPM Limit. If the greater than the normal limit, the normal limit is used. I implemented this after an error gave me an RPM limit of > 20,000 RPM :P

To build up the NLTS table, you log speed, rpm and the gear calculation. You put them in a table as above, then move the gear scaling down one to account for the fact you want the RPM to drop so you can change UP a gear.

I have given positions for 9 gear calculation points. nearly 2 per gear. You shouldn't need them but they might be useful for something. If not, ill cut them out down the line somewhere.

Again, the NLTS map in the ROM by default is the one I used. I calculated the RPM limit values on a spreadsheet using gear ratios and other stuff. You can do it this way, or log the real values. I don't think high precision will make much difference so this might actually work out of the box for some.
I did just mess around to find the gear calc values though, so they probably need some work.

CEL on Knock
You can set the Knock threshold at which the CEL will illuminate. Currently set to 3. So, when knocksum = 3 or more, the CEL will illuminate. It will stay illuminated while this condition remains true. I noticed it when it illuminated for less than 1 second.

[Kenneth]

Setup is per the previous thread. You will need the switch wired up and to setup the input bit mask. Please read the previous thread as per linked at the top of the first post.

When I tested this, I used a TPS qualifier value of 10%. This pretty much meant that any time I had was touching the clutch in and tried to use the accelerator I had the limiter operating. Quite fun, but a pain in the backside when I initially didn't realise that I have a tendency to just rest my foot on the clutch when going through an intersection.

[lateshow]

How do I turn off NLTS and launch?

[lateshow]

And btw, has anyone yet tested this on EM2428 ecu?

[evo_gerard]

hey guys, i tried to load this map in a 7202 ecu case id340289 internal id EM2005 (this is the current rom it is using) and i keep getting an ecuflash error. any ideas why? please?

evo_gerard

[foxdie]

hey guys, i tried to load this map in a 7202 ecu case id340289 internal id EM2005 (this is the current rom it is using) and i keep getting an ecuflash error. any ideas why? please?

evo_gerard

I had this issue with v1.02, you apparently have to remove an "F" from the XML definition someplace.

Edit: This is incorrect, see next post!

[evo_gerard]

I had this issue with v1.02, you apparently have to remove an "F" from the XML definition someplace.
i figured it out. its like u said i had to remove the A in H8539FA.

[foxdie]

i figured it out. its like u said i had to remove the A in H8539FA.

That's the daddy!

[foxdie]

Quick question, does this ROM support 2byte load & RPM logging? If not, is it possible to have that feature please? :)

[scientist]

They should be enabled on this rom

[lateshow]

v1.03 is up and working in auto. Only problem is that it seems to fetch the ignition advance from 180 column when it should fetch it from 200 or bigger.

[foxdie]

They should be enabled on this rom

Yep lateshow filled me in, need to change the formula in EvoScan for "Load MUT 2Byte Mod" from "0.3125*x" to "0.2326*x" to make it work though.

Also, related question, has anyone thought at upping the MUT baud rate in the ROM for faster logging? I'm not sure how practical this would be (higher baud means ECU devoting more time to "answering queries" than "preventing engine going bang") but perhaps there's a sweet-spot someone may know about?

[foxdie]

Panic time!

I tried flashing this ROM before setting off for work, it didn't work as it was pulling in an old EMKS11.xml (memmodel was set to 7203) and the flash failed, so I reflashed my backup and drove to work, dropping my other half off at their work on the way.

Because the ECU was flashed, it reset the IAC meaning the car stalled when I took my foot off the accelerator, when I got to work I fixed the xml and managed to successfully flash KS Mod v1.03 on my 7202 with the launch control features disabled, the car started fine so I thought "that's great, I'll reset the IAC and test the ROM out on my lunch break", turned the car off and went into the office to start work.

Not 5 mins after I get into the office, Chris (my other half) texts me saying he needs to go home urgently to collect some files from his laptop at home and that he's coming to get my car.. oops!

He's now driving the car home with an untested (by myself) ROM with the possibility of it stalling when you put the clutch down and try to brake. He knows it's doing this and I told him how to handle the situation (ie. don't put the clutch down when braking, change down a gear as quickly as you can) but I'm still concerned he's gonna prang it x.x

Edit: Didn't prang it \o/ Roll on Lunchtime!

[foxdie]

Yay even more nippy! Using the extended map means it's leaned out slightly, still hitting 9.7:1 though, will tune that out soon.

I do have another issue now that'll stop me using LC but I'll start a new thread for that.

[Shtiv]

v1.03 is up and working in auto. Only problem is that it seems to fetch the ignition advance from 180 column when it should fetch it from 200 or bigger.

Really? Is this resolved?

[Kenneth]

How was this tested? I'll need to verify it before going any further.

[foxdie]

Just some usage notes, managed to lean mine out to 11.5 and f*** me does it rocket along!

I got a little bit of knock (so I can confirm the CEL does indeed work :D), so I'm going to back off the boost a tiny bit, invest in some downpipes and remove the strip at the back of the bonnet to hopefully keep everything running a little cooler to prevent further knock events.

Incidentally, managed to hit load 178, not sure what everyone else is achieving but it's certainly the highest I've ever seen :evil2:

[Kenneth]

You should be achieving up to about 220. That starts getting difficult above about 4500RPM though.

[lateshow]

How was this tested? I'll need to verify it before going any further.

Haven't had time to test any further. But with old rom It definetely used the column 200-220 when i got such loads (3000-4500) but with my latest run it was straight from the 180 column all the time, i can post the evoscan file here. My 180 column says
12
14
15
16
16
16
16
17
18
19

from 3000 -> onwards

For example @ 5000rpm im doing load 200 and i'm getting 17 for ignition advance and i have 16 in the column of 180 and 12 in the column of 200. This COULD be a logging problem, Kenneth are you doing same kind of loads, then you can tell? But it seems that it can take values from column 200 or 220 but then the load must be close to 240. 2byte load is now quite accurate and the boost tells about the same.... But car feels good. With that kind of advance and boost I should be getting nicely over 500Nm :) My friends car has about the same mods, but it is doing much less advance there where it really hits the boost and he got 492 on a VERY warm day :) But thanks to you Kenneth, I dont think there actually is a problem here...

[Kenneth]

Yeah, I am exceeding 220 load fairly easily so should be able to test it.
Logging 2 byte values are always going to be questionable because the logger has to request the data as 2 bytes. So it asks for byte 1, then byte 2. There is always the chance of the data changing between the requests. It is usually fairly reliable though

I think I changed the ignition map between this and the previous version, make sure that isn't the problem.

You will also find it difficult to get EXACTLY what is in the cell due to the interpolation on both axis.

Another question is whether the cells correspond to another place in the map (i.e. different RPM point) which could indicate there is something wrong with the load or RPM values being logged.

[scott.mohekey]

Would it make sense to change the 1 byte load to report only the top half of the two byte load (when I say top half, I don't mean just the high byte, I mean the upper half of the load range). Are you that interested in the lower load all the time? And if you are, could you not switch back and forth between low and high load ranges while tuning?

[Shtiv]

How was this tested? I'll need to verify it before going any further.

I'm only using v1.02 but it works fine for me, I'd guess more of an issue with the speed of the logging, it can be a bit deceptive, but mine is definitely using the columns past 180

[Hotwire]

****s n giggles (as my car is auto)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9LkSEgZRJo

I can also confirm that CEL on knock works (got a count of and light illuminated for about a second)

Cheers Kenneth :thumbsup: Fantastic work

[MackTheKnife]

****s n giggles (as my car is auto)

I think you have the perfect exhaust system for that, sounded awesome!

[Kenneth]

lol. Glad you are enjoying it :)

[Hotwire]

I think you have the perfect exhaust system for that, sounded awesome!

Thats with average 2.5" compliance cat & rear silencer (same as this (http://apexi-usa.com/shop/index.php/silencer-for-n1-na-canister-active-tail-silencer.html)) in too... would like to see/hear with gutted cat & removing my rear silencer :o

[Kenneth]

I COULD do that :P not sure my neighbours would like it though... /haz

[foxdie]

I COULD do that :P not sure my neighbours would like it though... /haz

But it's for science ;)

[Kenneth]

If someone reminds me, ill see about it in a couple of weeks. The wife is going away (to the UK actually) for a couple of weeks so ill have a bit more free time :)

[jjayokocha]

Is it safe for a newbie like myself to be flashing the ecu in my fl vr4?

[Kenneth]

You would be well served to do some research first. Everyone starts somewhere though. Just remember that any questions you have as a newbie have probably already been asked by another, please just remember to look for the answers before asking questions :)


Is it safe for a newbie like myself to be flashing the ecu in my fl vr4?

[lateshow]

a friend disassembled the rom and said that there is no problem with reading values from +200 columns. :)

[Hotwire]

Kenneth,

as per my post in the injector thread, I tuned a legnum with KKR280 turbo upgrade using your ROM. There will be some $$ coming your way shortly for this - thanks very much!

However, my question is regarding the RPM for stationary limit. increasing using the ] key alone, it seems to top out 3874rpm. Using at ALT+] key it can go to many tens of thousands - any idea the reason for this? using = can set it to 4499 (which i presume is a multip of the base HEX with scaling applied, thus cant get 4500)

I'm looking to increase the launch RPM to around 4250 as with the preset 3500rpm on the enlarged turbos, the car bogged down quite badly, so looking to let it go at a bit higher in the rev-range.

Cheers
Lee

[TwinTurbo]

Hi Lee

I have Stat RPM Limit set to 5000 and Untilag at 4750 with standard turbos, tryed couple of times with 4000-3750 but RPM Boged down again, so from my point of view 5000-4750 is the best setup to have, also ignition retard is configured at -5 and AFR at 12, the reason is that on AFR 9 spark plugs were getting wet and I had a misfire, this was happening when I was holding WOT to long (3-4 Seconds) during a launch, everytime I was getting 1-1.2 Bar boost at Launch, but it was awful with misfires, current setup is: Ignition -5, AFR 12, Speed 8 but still I am getting sparkplugs wet and misfire if I hold WOT too long.

[Kenneth]

That is probably a factor of the scaling. I can't say I have had any issues with mine, but I don't play with it much.

One thing you can do is look at the scaling function and do some calculations in a spreadsheet to get the value you want. Worst case is you can change the scaling to be uint16, use the scaling factor to work out what to change it to and do that directly on the base data. I hope that makes sense.

I hope the tune went well otherwise :)


Kenneth,

as per my post in the injector thread, I tuned a legnum with KKR280 turbo upgrade using your ROM. There will be some $$ coming your way shortly for this - thanks very much!

However, my question is regarding the RPM for stationary limit. increasing using the ] key alone, it seems to top out 3874rpm. Using at ALT+] key it can go to many tens of thousands - any idea the reason for this? using = can set it to 4499 (which i presume is a multip of the base HEX with scaling applied, thus cant get 4500)

I'm looking to increase the launch RPM to around 4250 as with the preset 3500rpm on the enlarged turbos, the car bogged down quite badly, so looking to let it go at a bit higher in the rev-range.

Cheers
Lee

[Hotwire]

Hi Lee

I have Stat RPM Limit set to 5000 and Untilag at 4750 with standard turbos, tryed couple of times with 4000-3750 but RPM Boged down again, so from my point of view 5000-4750 is the best setup to have, also ignition retard is configured at -5 and AFR at 12, the reason is that on AFR 9 spark plugs were getting wet and I had a misfire, this was happening when I was holding WOT to long (3-4 Seconds) during a launch, everytime I was getting 1-1.2 Bar boost at Launch, but it was awful with misfires, current setup is: Ignition -5, AFR 12, Speed 8 but still I am getting sparkplugs wet and misfire if I hold WOT too long.

Thanks very much for your feedback Misha! I know the owner wants to use LC sparingly, particularly he wants it setup for when he attends a hillclimb in a month or so so it would be great to have it setup in readyness for this. With the AFR at 12, what sort of pressure do you see compared to AFR at 9? does it still build ~1 bar?

Also how has your driveline help up to those sort of launches so far? 5k rpm clutch dumping seems a little harsh but i guess that's the payoff for a quick start ;)

[foxdie]

Well I finally managed to get my VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) connected back up to my ECU and got launch control working /woot

There is however 3 problems; (and before I continue, I have to state I don't have a clutch switch yet);
It doesn't build boost as quick as it should to prevent turbo damage (2 seconds of popping = about 0.3-4 bar boost)
Straight dumping the clutch results in bog down, still need to slip the clutch a bit to launch
By far the biggest problem; Timing briefly retards to -5 degrees about 2 seconds after launching
As I said, I haven't wired a clutch switch in yet, but as far as I gather launch control is activated by reading the VSS so the only thing the clutch switch should (at a guess) be required for is NTLS / Flat Shifting.

Here is an EvoScan screenshot of the power / log graph;

48198

The result of this retard is you'll launch but then about halfway through first gear it'll feel like you've just had fuel cut, despite being well under 1.0 bar of boost at that point, however it only happens the once and all manner of driving after that is unaffected, until you try and launch again, at which point it retards once again.

For those wanting a little more info, here is the EvoScan Log (http://db.tt/uGGiuB6) for the launch including the odd retard event.

Anyone able to shed light on it?

Edit: I just noticed, it retards to -5 degrees once when the engine speed reaches the launch control rev limiter.. Bug report?

[Kenneth]

Hi Jason

I think you need to go back and read the original thread and any references to other information (i.e. the Ceddy Mods thread)

-5 degrees is the set point for anti lag, which activates at the anti-lag set point, when anti lag is active.

If you want to launch by dumping your clutch you have about 4 options
1) wheel spin
2) bogging down
3) breaking something
4) launching very very fast

The 4th (1st as well, unless you have crap tyres) is never going to happen at 3500 RPM. As such, you need to adjust your launch control RPM much higher. The higher the RPM you launch from the more likely you are to experience breakage.

Personally I slip the clutch some. It makes 2 and 3 much less likely at the potential expense of earlier clutch wear. Not that I am bothered by that, if the other parts last long enough to wear out the clutch ill be happy.

[foxdie]

Hi Ken,

Yep, those concepts I understand, I also realise that my clutch isn't going to last much longer if I keep dumping it.

How about the timing retard post-launch though? Want me to make a video demonstrating the issue? For debugging / testing purposes, I'm running v1.03 with NTLS disabled, happy to send you my ROM too.

I'll be in chat for about 20 mins before I gotta go to work :)

[Kenneth]

Simple problem with a simple answer.

I assume you have a KPH/MPH converter on your car?

You are reaching the Launch Control and Anti lag conditions after actual launch, which is speed below X and RPM >= Y

If you do have a MPH converter then you should lower your switch speed so that you don't achieve the anti-lag / Launch control RPM in 1st at that speed.

For comparison, my car in 1st at 3500RPM is doing in excess of 30kph.

[foxdie]

Hi Ken, this is spot on.

I managed to get half an hour to play a few hours and I noticed the ECU was receiving the converted signal (so it seeing 40 KPH = Vehicle travelling at 40 MPH), so I lowered the switch speed to 8 KPH and it appears to have resolved the issues... (I say that, I also enabled NTLS but set the bitmask in such a way that the ECU always thinks the cars in gear so it won't ever activate NTLS).

Just need to work on my launches now, here's another EvoScan log (http://db.tt/xNOVksb) from a quick bogged launch I made on the way home from work /duh

48212

Sent $25 USD your way to say thanks :)

[kochajj]

Hi Kenneth.
In your ROM we have KS Fuel Map and KS Ignition Map(EMKS11).
But we also have another Fuel and Ignition Map (VR4Base) which is not the same as KS maps. ( other value)
Both maps are operating at once or just yours?

[Kenneth]

The ECU will only use one set of fuel maps at a time. In my ROM, it will use my maps only.

[foxdie]

Ken, got some feature requests (in order of preference), for each of these that are implemented reliably I will donate another 50 NZD :)

1. Switchable maps

There's 2 tables each for both high and low octane ratings (I believe this is for manual / auto gearboxes) for fuel / timing / load aka boost, I'd like to be able to choose which tables get used by flicking a switch, I believe this has already been added in Evo ROMs so it may be an easy port.

2. Live tuning

This may be quite difficult, however it appears to have been implemented on as far back as Evo IV's (so hopefully that covers 7202s / 7203s), this would be a great must-have as having to stop the car to reflash every time I want to make a change and clearing the idle adjust (causing potentially dangerous stalling) is a big headache.

3. Valet Mode

For when you need to leave your vehicle with untrusted people like at a garage or when it's being valeted, this will set WGDC to 0% and change the rev limiter to a much lower figure such as 2500-3000 RPM to prevent abuse.

Again this has been implemented in Tephra Mod so may be an easy port. I particularly like the feature to have it enabled / disabled by holding your foot on the accelerator for a few seconds before cranking the engine to enable / disable the feature, it'd be nice to leave it on permanently (and therefore, you have to always hold your foot on the accelerator for 5 seconds to "unlock" the cars power) so that if the car was stolen, they're not gonna outrun the police :)

[kochajj]

Ken, got some feature requests (in order of preference), for each of these that are implemented reliably I will donate another 50 NZD :)

1. Switchable maps

There's 2 tables each for both high and low octane ratings (I believe this is for manual / auto gearboxes) for fuel / timing / load aka boost, I'd like to be able to choose which tables get used by flicking a switch, I believe this has already been added in Evo ROMs so it may be an easy port.

2. Live tuning

This may be quite difficult, however it appears to have been implemented on as far back as Evo IV's (so hopefully that covers 7202s / 7203s), this would be a great must-have as having to stop the car to reflash every time I want to make a change and clearing the idle adjust (causing potentially dangerous stalling) is a big headache.

3. Valet Mode

For when you need to leave your vehicle with untrusted people like at a garage or when it's being valeted, this will set WGDC to 0% and change the rev limiter to a much lower figure such as 2500-3000 RPM to prevent abuse.

Again this has been implemented in Tephra Mod so may be an easy port. I particularly like the feature to have it enabled / disabled by holding your foot on the accelerator for a few seconds before cranking the engine to enable / disable the feature, it'd be nice to leave it on permanently (and therefore, you have to always hold your foot on the accelerator for 5 seconds to "unlock" the cars power) so that if the car was stolen, they're not gonna outrun the police :)

Hi.
In tephra mode, when we changing maps icon lights up on the dashboard.
This is very helpful to not confuse the map if one of them is a map of methanol.

[foxdie]

Hi.
In tephra mode, when we changing maps icon lights up on the dashboard.
This is very helpful to not confuse the map if one of them is a map of methanol.

That would be handy, however there is only one dashboard light that the Engine ECU has control over and that's the CEL :)

I'm not sure if we can hook up additional outputs to our ECUs, anyone know?

[Adam.Findlay]

2. Live tuning

This may be quite difficult, however it appears to have been implemented on as far back as Evo IV's (so hopefully that covers 7202s / 7203s), this would be a great must-have as having to stop the car to reflash every time I want to make a change and clearing the idle adjust (causing potentially dangerous stalling) is a big headache.

I beleive the evo 4 ecu's are not to dissimilar to the 7201 processor as a guy I work with had an evo 4 and had to switch to a evo 5 ecu to get flashable tuning. and evo i think 7 or 8 onwards are live tuning capable as i beleive this is to be the next release for evoscan.

and to kenneth is there any plan to implement map sensor? to delete the AFM. with christmas holidays coming up some full time work will result in a donation towards your purposes

[foxdie]

I beleive the evo 4 ecu's are not to dissimilar to the 7201 processor as a guy I work with had an evo 4 and had to switch to a evo 5 ecu to get flashable tuning. and evo i think 7 or 8 onwards are live tuning capable as i beleive this is to be the next release for evoscan.

This is why I said it might not be so simple, Evo 4-6 can have it with a SH2 based ECU (ie. installing a Evo 7-8 ECU in it), I'm hoping with a bit of work it'd be possible on ours :)


and to kenneth is there any plan to implement map sensor? to delete the AFM. with christmas holidays coming up some full time work will result in a donation towards your purposes

Well, he can always use the secondary o2 sensor input for the MAP sensor, just need to find a stable +5V output to power it :)

[Confused]

MAP would be awesome for me - it's going to be difficult to find an adequate place to position a the MAF in my Anglia :)

[kochajj]

That would be handy, however there is only one dashboard light that the Engine ECU has control over and that's the CEL :)

I'm not sure if we can hook up additional outputs to our ECUs, anyone know?

I think that the computer does not have to directly control the light on the dashboard.
This can make the 2 position switch.

Ken, it is posible control fuel maps as the LC??
In one position switch lets the ground to PIN X = FUEL MAP 1, in the second position the pin Y = Fuel maps 2 ?????

[Kenneth]

it isn't so easy to port the tephra mods to H8 because the H8 is fairly different. In saying that, it is easier than doing them from scratch.

There is a reason why there is no live mapping on H8. There is not enough RAM. There may be enough free to have one fuel or ignition map in memory at a time but that is it.

I haven't yet looked at seeing if there are spare outputs which can be used.

Speed density shouldn't be excessively difficult, just takes time. (especially since Ceddy has already done it for Evo H8)

While your offer is nice to see Jason, $50 (or $100 for the 2 "doable" mods) is less than 4 hours of me working at my job, 2 or less if I were doing something outside of work for people. Or I can sit back and let one of the Australian tuners give me $50 per tune he does without getting out of bed :P
To put things in perspective, you are offering the equivalent of an ice cream as incentive to fully detail my car. A nice treat for something I should and will eventually get around to doing, but not a lot in the way of motivation unfortunately.

Unfortunately that has also been influenced by the last offer (i.e. the thread "who wants to make some money") where the person never made any effort to keep up their offer.

[foxdie]

Hi Ken,

I understand where you're coming from, I tried to offer as much of my monthly disposable income as I could and I'm hoping others in the club will contribute as well to get these features added to the 720x ECUs too.

Anyone else with me?

[Adam.Findlay]

Ken if you could txt me when your free with your bank acc num i will deposit 100-150 towards MAP sensor implemntation (depending on tomorrows pay check :P) also for the use of your launch control rom.

[Adam.Findlay]

"Speed density shouldn't be excessively difficult, just takes time. (especially since Ceddy has already done it for Evo H8)
I should and will eventually get around to doing, but not a lot in the way of motivation unfortunately"


Also, I understand that its a donation towards the development and not paying for a immediate product, theese things take time, all of your efforts are much appreciated by myself and im sure many others especially as all of this programming business if far over my head, my brain is definatly more mechanicaly orentaited..

[foxdie]

Am I right in presuming that, even if we could access a serial SRAM IC such as this (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22100C.pdf) (should store all the tables and more!) with a spare GPIO, there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to read it as quickly as the ECU would require it?

[BCX]

I reckon i could have something in the works for valet mode and some other mods... just working with Kenneth on a few things. I dont want to step on Kenneths's toes with this - thats all.

[Kenneth]

My current (started this morning) project is map switching. There is a fairly simple way of being able to switch between 2 maps, but I don't think that is very flexible.

So this is my plan

4 sets of maps/variables


High Octane Fuel
Low Octane Fuel
High Octane Ign
Low Octane Ign
Ign Warmup
Target load High Octane
Target Load Low Octane
Wastegate Duty High Octane
Wastegate Duty Low Octane
Load Limit
Injector Size
RPM Limit
Speed Limit On
Speed Limit Off
KS Mods Setup


Some of these are not really needed but will be useful for going with alternative fuels (E85 for example).

There will be a routine which, for each map set, takes a number of input addresses (ECU Memory, up to 16 though 1-3 should be enough) and checks them against values for validation. If all pass then the input bits will be masked (as currently done for NLTS and LC) for any external switches.

This will be done up to 3 times. The first map set which passes will be the current working set. If none match, then the 4th will be used.

In theory this will allow the use of Valet mode as one map set, LC can use another and all sorts of stuff. So long as you don't need Valet Mode, LC Petrol, Std Petrol, LC E85 and Std E85 then you should be ok.

If you need more sets of maps, that can potentially be done but it will mean mapping outside of the 0-4000/10000-14000 range which, in theory, isn't ideal.

[wintertidenz]

Sounds great Kenneth. I still need to get my ECU over to you sometime soon with a donation towards costs :P

I know you mentioned that you just put the larger maps somewhere else - could you not just pull timing on all points of the standard maps and use these for valet mode? Would save some space on the ECU?

[lathiat]

Or just have a 3000RPM rev limiter as valet mode.

[Nick Mann]

How many people would really use Valet mode? It implies you are giving your car to someone you don't trust...

[lathiat]

How many people would really use Valet mode? It implies you are giving your car to someone you don't trust...


tyre store, insurance assessor, actual valet.. etc.

[Kenneth]

I wouldn't really use valet mode myself, though I would definitely have one of the maps as a de-tuned map in case the car was being used by someone not myself. Lol, such as my wife. Not that I don't trust her, she would just rather not be driving the car when it is set up too aggressively.

The maps that take up the room are the fuel and Ignition maps. I could save some room by not using warmup ignition retard, or having just one. That would at least give the option of a warmup map then at full temp switch to another map or some such. The thing I see there is that if you run duel fuels, warmup retard might be quite useful on 2 maps.

Valet mode could be implemented on top, though I am not keen to do so seeing as this system will support that sort of thing without having to run another code path.

[BCX]

Am I right in presuming that, even if we could access a serial SRAM IC such as this (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22100C.pdf) (should store all the tables and more!) with a spare GPIO, there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to read it as quickly as the ECU would require it?

i might be able to whip something up, not using that specifically... i just need to work out what pins are unused internally, then tack on something.

I've got a couple of ideas in my head.

[BCX]

Valet mode could be implemented on top, though I am not keen to do so seeing as this system will support that sort of thing without having to run another code path.

Ken,

Why would jumping to another code path be a problem?

All the important things in the ECU are triggered by Interrupt, it should have enough spare cycles to jump to another routine in page2.

[BCX]

Am I right in presuming that, even if we could access a serial SRAM IC such as this (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22100C.pdf) (should store all the tables and more!) with a spare GPIO, there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to read it as quickly as the ECU would require it?

I rekcon i could try whip something up, but not using that specifically. I need to find what pins aren't used on the processor internally to see if it's feasible. the only problem i forsee with offleading this to something external is access speeds. ROM will be faster than having to output then wait for input. might be the difference between it working or not as the ECU will have to wait for a reply (except for interupts), as opposed to adding extra features which seem to be a 'best effort' approach (ie, ecu will eventually run these routines but can do other things in it's idle time)

i also need a spare ecu lol

[BCX]

Or just have a 3000RPM rev limiter as valet mode.

I reckon thats do-able, could have something whipped up if it's just rev limiter based.

[Gly]

tyre store, insurance assessor, actual valet.. etc.

i wait for my tryes to be fitted. and this is done maybe once every 2-3 years?
if he's looking at it the cars ****ed,
does anyone do this in nz,

for me valet would be pointless, no one drives it but me,
and if some else is, im in the passenger seat.

[Kenneth]

I don't see there is any problem with it, just that there is no need.
Not only that, having it mappable and able to set conservative timing, boost and what not means that there is enough configuration available to set the level of performance without making it obvious that you have crippled the car.


Ken,

Why would jumping to another code path be a problem?

All the important things in the ECU are triggered by Interrupt, it should have enough spare cycles to jump to another routine in page2.

[Kenneth]

The current ECU mods can do that already.

Set the NLTS table to be 3000RPM across the board. Put the TPS comparison value to 1% and configure the bit masking to activate when one of the inputs is switched and install said switch. Done.

You then lose NLTS (most don't use it anyway) of course. You could do the same with the LC too if you preferred but you would have to set the cut off speed very high and then you would lose both LC and NLTS.





Or just have a 3000RPM rev limiter as valet mode.
I reckon thats do-able, could have something whipped up if it's just rev limiter based.

[wintertidenz]

I would personally just use valet mode for my girlfriend - she is used to driving a gutless Pulsar, so jumping in the Legnum and having her put her foot down = pretty damn scary proposition!

Kenneth - I thought the warmup cat map had been removed in your mods anyway? How many of us still have cat converters :P

[lateshow]

offtopic: whats the use for cat warmup, it'll warm up by itself for testing purposes even if you try long enough, if driving only short distances it'll only spend more fuel...

[wintertidenz]

It makes the ECU dump more fuel into the engine in order to get the cat warmed up quicker for emissions. At least that's what I remember.

[blodeaxe]

So I flashed this ROM to my car and disabled LC for the autobox.....the other day I was in a mall car park waiting on my girlfriend to come back from the ATM. The motor was idling and i was revving up release the gas then stepping on and off the brakes I did that a few times without thinking then low and behold LC switched and it worked in park and neutral. It sounded really good then I switched of and restarted and tried again but it was gone. Have been trying to get it back but no luck yet

Is it a hidden feature?

[Kenneth]

No, there are no hidden features. If the LC came on after being turned off (I assume NLTS was off too?) then it was definitely a problem. If you can re-create it that would be good to know how you managed it.

[Kenneth]

Switched maps are not far away now. It has taken me a little longer than expected as it was difficult to fit all the maps within the 0x0 - 0x4000 ROM area.

There are 8 maps for each

Fuel
Ignition
Load target
Wastegate duty
Load Limit


8 values for

Which of the above maps to use for high/low octane (except load limit which does not have high/low octane)
Mods setup (allow CEL on KnockSum on/off as well as some others.)
Injector Size
RPM Limit
Speed Limit On
Speed Limit Off
Max Ignition retard
CEL on KnockSum
Stationary RPM Limit (Undecided about this one... might not make it as not strictly necessary)


What this means is that you can have 8 map setups and run a combination of maps. I'll set it up initially to be 4 low octane and 4 high octane of each, you could have 7 High octane and 1 Low octane though.

Specific NLTS and LC will be removed. If you want these, you can configure the maps to switch at the correct point to give RPM limit, timing and fuel delivery.

Warmup ignition retard map will be removed. If you need this feature, setup a map to run on warm up which has the retard values built into the main ignition map.

Map decision will be done based on 2 things
A list of up to 7 variable and value pairs. So you choose a variable, such as 0xF07A (TPS and assign a value to match against. Once variable value is greater or equal to the matched value, then it will test the next pair, if not it will go to the next map and start testing.
If the next variable is 0xFFFF then it will stop comparing and move to Input bit masking (as it does now for NLTS). If all this works out, that map will be chosen.
If no map match is made, the last one will be used by default.

I think that is about it. Only other thing I was thinking about at this stage was adding an option in the mod setup to enable/disable closed loop.

[kinkyafro]

Nice one Kenneth you've obviously been busy - I new there was a lot of white space in the rom but I didn't expect an additional 6 map sets could be squeezed in there.

[lateshow]

Disabling /enabling closed loop would be nice. When driving with one fuel you dont need so many maps but when for instance if one wants to use RE85 fuel those would come in handy when swithcing. Really nice work!

Could there be a possibility to control WGDC with TPS so that bigger TPS gives bigger WGDC :)

One question about the original 1.03 version. There is "all mods off" and the options are . Off /enable. Does this mean that if I have chosen enable all mods are On?

[lathiat]

Sounds good.. interesting idea to switch to pure maps only I guess that will work even for the other mods.

WRT stationary rev limit.. I guess the only use that might have is if someone wants launch control without the antilag and also to save on maps used (i.e. not 'waste' 1-2 maps for lc without antilag).. so seems a rather unlikely use case.


Only thought is a <= match will be useful you might need a 3 column match.. for example <= speed.. then again i suppose you could condition the othermaps to >= a certain speed... hrm.. maybe i'll leave all the smart thinking to you, you've clearly already thought this out. :-)

[foxdie]

One question about the original 1.03 version. There is "all mods off" and the options are . Off /enable. Does this mean that if I have chosen enable all mods are On?

Think of it as a master switch, when it is set to Enabled then all the mods can be enabled (providing they are also selected).

49517

The above shows all mods enabled.

[Kenneth]

Only actually 4 extra maps, since there were originally 2 for each high and low octane fuel and ignition (which are the ones that matter in terms of size).
Cutting out the warmup retard also freed 2x ignition map space.
So 4 fuel + 2 ignition was all the extra maps of significant size. It still took a bit of working as to what to put in which space though!


Nice one Kenneth you've obviously been busy - I new there was a lot of white space in the rom but I didn't expect an additional 6 map sets could be squeezed in there.

[Kenneth]

Disabling /enabling closed loop would be nice. When driving with one fuel you dont need so many maps but when for instance if one wants to use RE85 fuel those would come in handy when swithcing. Really nice work!

Could there be a possibility to control WGDC with TPS so that bigger TPS gives bigger WGDC :)

One question about the original 1.03 version. There is "all mods off" and the options are . Off /enable. Does this mean that if I have chosen enable all mods are On?

Turbos respond directly to load and as such, TPS effectively controls boost anyway... What reason do you have for wanting to use TPS to drive WGDC?

Disabled = No mods will work
Enabled = Enabled mods will work

[Kenneth]

Only thought is a <= match will be useful you might need a 3 column match.. for example <= speed.. then again i suppose you could condition the othermaps to >= a certain speed... hrm.. maybe i'll leave all the smart thinking to you, you've clearly already thought this out. :-)

I did think about this. In the end I figured that there is little point because you can just change the map order, or not test that parameter.

So if you wanted stationary RPM limit below 10kph and TPS >= 80%

Map 1 tests Speed >= 10
Map 2 test TPS >= 80% (Set up RPM limit on this map. In real life you would have this at map position 7 or some such)

Below 10kph map 1 will not activate, so moves on to map 2. Map 2 then checks TPS and if it finds it over or equal to 80% activates stationary RPM Limit. In this way, the conditions stack and you can assume that failed conditions (so long as the matching only differs by one variable) can be assumed to be a < condition.

If TPS < 80% then it will move on to the next map, finally using the last map if nothing else matches either.

[foxdie]

Switched maps are not far away now. It has taken me a little longer than expected as it was difficult to fit all the maps within the 0x0 - 0x4000 ROM area..

*snip*

Hi Ken, guess I'll owe you some money soon, well done mate :)

Implementing anti-lag and launch control via maps however, I'm a little fuzzy on.. would it be something like the following..
TPS >= 80%
Vehicle Speed < 10 KPH
RPM Limiter set to 4500 RPM (or whatever)
Ignition map set to -5 (or more) degrees above 4000 RPM, irrespective of load
Edit: Been idly typing this for half an hour, didn't see you'd already replied :)

[scientist]

Switched maps are not far away now. It has taken me a little longer than expected as it was difficult to fit all the maps within the 0x0 - 0x4000 ROM area.

There are 8 maps for each

Fuel
Ignition
Load target
Wastegate duty
Load Limit


8 values for

Which of the above maps to use for high/low octane (except load limit which does not have high/low octane)
Mods setup (allow CEL on KnockSum on/off as well as some others.)
Injector Size
RPM Limit
Speed Limit On
Speed Limit Off
Max Ignition retard
CEL on KnockSum
Stationary RPM Limit (Undecided about this one... might not make it as not strictly necessary)


What this means is that you can have 8 map setups and run a combination of maps. I'll set it up initially to be 4 low octane and 4 high octane of each, you could have 7 High octane and 1 Low octane though.

Specific NLTS and LC will be removed. If you want these, you can configure the maps to switch at the correct point to give RPM limit, timing and fuel delivery.

Warmup ignition retard map will be removed. If you need this feature, setup a map to run on warm up which has the retard values built into the main ignition map.

Map decision will be done based on 2 things
A list of up to 7 variable and value pairs. So you choose a variable, such as 0xF07A (TPS and assign a value to match against. Once variable value is greater or equal to the matched value, then it will test the next pair, if not it will go to the next map and start testing.
If the next variable is 0xFFFF then it will stop comparing and move to Input bit masking (as it does now for NLTS). If all this works out, that map will be chosen.
If no map match is made, the last one will be used by default.

I think that is about it. Only other thing I was thinking about at this stage was adding an option in the mod setup to enable/disable closed loop.

Don't want to sound negative or anything but isn't 8 maps a bit excessive? should only need two switchable maps tops, and a switching parameter for them. Most of us will have no use for soo many maps and the space could be used for other developments.

[lathiat]

Don't want to sound negative or anything but isn't 8 maps a bit excessive? should only need two switchable maps tops, and a switching parameter for them. Most of us will have no use for soo many maps and the space could be used for other developments.

If you read carefully his general plan is that NLTS and LC will now become their own maps effectively. So copy and paste your map add in the appropriate magic for NLTS (e.g. rev limiter change) or for LC (low timing).

As much as that idea is kindof idealistic and might lead to cool things, it seems to be that NLTS+LC implemented standalone would be more functional and complicated to get right.

[lateshow]

Turbos respond directly to load and as such, TPS effectively controls boost anyway... What reason do you have for wanting to use TPS to drive WGDC?

Disabled = No mods will work
Enabled = Enabled mods will work

For instance could restrict boost in certain situations, but maybe bad idea with vr4. Evo X has this kind of boost control...

[Kenneth]

To run any form of switched maps requires the use of at least 3 maps. This is assuming that you don't want to also use alternative fuels.
So if you wanted to run alternative fuels (i.e. E85) then you would need at least 2 more, 3 if you wanted to switch one of them also.

So, in just 4 different configurations you have used 6 of the 8 maps. Sure, not everyone will need this and in fact most wont. The fact that some might is a good enough reason to do it, since it isn't much harder to do 8 than it is to do 6.

This way, you have 8 configurations which can use any of the 8 maps in a particular setting (you choose which map that setting will use rather than having a fixed map where you copy/paste the contents). As a result, you could have 8 settings and only use 2 maps for fuel but all 8 for boost control.

Personally I intend to use 1 low octane fuel/ignition map and 7 high octane fuel/ignition maps over 8 configurations for tuning. I can set up 7 high octane maps, switch between them, log each and then analyse the results. From 7 maps you can combine results to get a much better 2nd set. All at the cost of only 1 flash.

Yes, there is added complication on setup. But there always was going to be with the introduction of map switching. There were 2 options, have global settings for Launch Control, NLTS etc or to have a setting for each switched map. If doing the latter, the effort involved in doing more than 1 alternative is small compared with having an alternative at all. As such, I implemented 8.

As for space for other developments, there is plenty of other space for code.

[Kenneth]

Situations such as what?

Regardless of that, I think the map switching should take care of that if you have any particular need to drop boost for a given scenario.


For instance could restrict boost in certain situations, but maybe bad idea with vr4. Evo X has this kind of boost control...

[scientist]

Ok my my understanding of 8 maps may have been a bit off.

But my initial understanding would have been 8 high octane fuel maps....Since some of the H8 code has one map for Neutral etc and another for Drive/1st 2nd etc...I figured most of use would only need two maps....1 for Pump and another for alternative fuel which would include:
Injector Size
High Octane Fuel Map
Low Octane Fuel Map
High Octane Ignition Map
Low Octane Ignition Map
Boost Desired Engine Load
Base WasteGate Duty

but anyways...will be sending donations soon

[lateshow]

I have come across with some cars whose boost control solenoid works perfectly and some cars tend to have problems. Some people have said that in 5th gear (manual) boost goes too easily to ~1.5 bar with settings that give you 1.0 bar with 3rd gear in higher revs. You dont need to push the pedal much compared to what it takes with smaller gears. Using tps controlled boost could help but propalby it would be useless as it would generate up and down kind of boost humping... but as I said, no need, forget what i said.

[Shtiv]

Yeah I hear what you're saying but I don't think it would work in our cars anyway, remember too that the EVO X is fly by wire throttle so a lot of the reason for boost control is to assist it and it can also sharpen throttle response in different modes etc.

For our cars I think you'd be better off map switching based on gears (speed vs RPM) to solve the 5th gear problem. Personally I'd like to see something like different boost maps for 1st/2nd, run more base WGDC to help it spool, andther for 3rd/4th with less WGDC and similar BDEL and the another for 5th that has lower BDEL to pull it back and stop your problem above. That said, that's all for stock stuff, for serious cars, you could lower the boost in 1st and 2nd to save the drivetrain.... Also not sure if our speed resloution is good enough for that and no Kenneth, I'm not asking you to do this LOL

[lathiat]

So with Kenneths map set that would be easy to do, define maps based on RPM/speed. see. so you can do maps on speed, others can do antilag.. etc. etc.

Although.. rpm/speed might not be possible with his current method he might be able to add something for that.

[Kenneth]

It is easy enough to do a RPM / Speed calculation and put that in a variable so consider that done. Gear calculation will be an option for each map which you can set on/off via the configuration bits.

Speed resolution is not good at all which is disappointing. The calculation results will wander quite a bit but should not cross over each other so long as you are actually in gear. As soon as you are not in gear, things could get messy.

[foxdie]

Another $10 donation added :thumbsup:

[BCX]

Am I right in presuming that, even if we could access a serial SRAM IC such as this (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22100C.pdf) (should store all the tables and more!) with a spare GPIO, there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to read it as quickly as the ECU would require it?

I've got something in the works for live tuning H8. Doesnt involve any modification to ECU, just use custom ROM while tuning. Stay tuned... i've had some sucess using a TF Magna ecu, and will port to VR4 once it works (dont have spare VR4 ecu, otherwise i'd just develop it straight on that!)

[foxdie]

I've got something in the works for live tuning H8.

Ooh will that include the H8/539's as well as the 7202/3's? I would think so given the fact the 539 can run KS 1.3 and 2.0, but just wanna check :)

[Adam.Findlay]

Ooh will that include the H8/539's as well as the 7202/3's? I would think so given the fact the 539 can run KS 1.3 and 2.0, but just wanna check :)
Live tuning you say. I am drooling at the fact that will make remapping so much easier especially for major remaps for when I do my cams and eventually E85 tune
how hard is a H8 ecu to track down even if KS mods are not supported on H8 Im intrested in mapping on a H8 and transfering the maps over to my 7203 with KSmods

[foxdie]

how hard is a H8 ecu to track down even if KS mods are not supported on H8 Im intrested in mapping on a H8 and transfering the maps over to my 7203 with KSmods

Technically, both MH7202F and MH7203FA are "H8-family Microprocessors", it's just the H8/539 was an early revision sitting between the 7201 to 7202 switchover. The differences are minor (bootloader / kernel is different, can't reflash the H8/539 with EcuFlash yet, although I think that's just a matter of time) but they'll still run the same ROMs.

I was just double checking that BCX was referring to the H8 series as a whole, instead of just the H8/539 ECU.

[Adam.Findlay]

Technically, both MH7202F and MH7203FA are "H8-family Microprocessors", it's just the H8/539 was an early revision sitting between the 7201 to 7202 switchover. The differences are minor (bootloader / kernel is different, can't reflash the H8/539 with EcuFlash yet, although I think that's just a matter of time) but they'll still run the same ROMs.

I was just double checking that BCX was referring to the H8 series as a whole, instead of just the H8/539 ECU.

I see so possibly his magic software may lean toward live tuning on 7203/2 processors? fingers crossed :D

[BCX]

Yes, when I implement it on the VR4 ROM, it'll be on a 0013 based ROM like Kenneth uses. It's essentially the latest version of the code, so makes sense to use it.

When I say H8, yes, that will include any variant of the H8 (actual H8, 7203, 7202).

I must admit, it's early days still and needs plenty of r&d - i'm going on a gut feeling that this is possible to do without modding the ecu. But I've managed to hex edit a TF magna ROM (just need to try it) and in the process of writing a custom c#.net app that can make use of the J2534 libraries that the openport provides.

I cant always work on this as i share my Openport with my mate, and currently he has it :p but also he's got a magna that we can plug the ecu into to see my mods in action.

i do have the nessesary stuff to make a bench loom for a TF ECU, just haven't got around to it. But nothing beats turning the key and watching the motor run while your stuffing around with things to ensure it doesnt upset operation of the motor.

I've already managed to toggle the CEL, write data to memory, and read it back to me but now i'm beyond the limits of Evoscan in terms of getting data in and out of the ECU.

so watch this space...

[Davezj]

"fuel primer enrich" table i presume is only supposed to work on initial warm up of the engine and this table adds extra fuel to the fuel map being used at the present time.
the final value in the table is 82 deg and still has 6% enrichment over the standard fueling.
what happens when the temp gets above 82 deg does it retain the 6% enrichment or does it ignore this table if the temp value does not match any point in the actual table.
all standard VR4's should be at above 82 deg when at normal running temp.

what do you think happens.

is this the table resposible for making the VR4 extra stupidly rich at start up. Or is there a good reason for the extra fuel when the engine is warming up.

[wintertidenz]

The reason for extra fuel is because it doesn't atomize as well when the engine is cold, so it needs to put more in to compensate.

Interesting that it still has an extra 6% enrichment at normal temps though. It would be good to log it and see if it still dumps the extra in - however I suspect that it will switch this off after a certain amount of time if the engine is at the right temperature.

[Davezj]

Cheers for the response, i thought it would be something link that.

are there any flow charts to describe what table in the ecu rom interact with which other table.

i do a lot of very short car journies from cold and was thinking about pegging back the enrichment table as it seems fairly excessive to me.

[wintertidenz]

Sorry I don't have that data - others will though.

Scaling back the enrichment table may lead to issues with the car stalling or being hard to start. It may also take longer to warm up.

Have a quick read of this: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Tuning_Manual.htm#csenrich

It explains what happens when the after-start or warm up enrichment isn't set right.

[ersanalamin]

Some question in my head

I need to tune my ECU and I use the stock ECU taken from M/T FL EC5A published by mitsiman, i like to use some of kenneth definition file and vr4base feature like NLTS and CEL knock light. I can not use the kenneth v.1.03 vr4base since it consist other tuning that i dont wanna to aply to my vr4base def file. since vr4base one to another a bit different how do we copy other vr4base feature into desired vr4base? I tried use wordpad to copy feature between vr4base but it didnt work, what do i do to make it work?

Another question how do we make NLTS tuning work in any 6a13TT? is it required clutch switch just like in evo 8? how do we rebuilt such feature in vr4? any guidance?

[wintertidenz]

Just use Kenneth's KSMods 1.03 ROM instead - it doesn't have the switchable maps. And you would need to add extra tables etc to the ROM itself, unless you know what you're doing you will end up bricking the ECU. Play it safe and use KSMods.

I think it still has NLTS and CEL on knock. For NLTS you will need a clutch switch - there are quite a few posts about fitting one.

[ersanalamin]

Just use Kenneth's KSMods 1.03 ROM instead - it doesn't have the switchable maps. And you would need to add extra tables etc to the ROM itself, unless you know what you're doing you will end up bricking the ECU. Play it safe and use KSMods.

I think it still has NLTS and CEL on knock. For NLTS you will need a clutch switch - there are quite a few posts about fitting one.

I knew, but this might be not true, the problem is i found out the xml file used in ksmods 1.03 already has some fuel and ignition mapping that I dont wanna use it, so ijust want to use the NLTS and CEL feature in ksmods 1.03 without changing my other mapping, any suggestion what should I do guys?

Any link how to fit clutch switch?

[foxdie]

I think it still has NLTS and CEL on knock. For NLTS you will need a clutch switch - there are quite a few posts about fitting one.

KSMods 1.03 does indeed have CEL / Anti-Lag / NTLS. Anti-Lag can be activated on vehicle speed (no clutch switch needed, although it may help), however NTLS does need a clutch switch.

[ersanalamin]

NTLS does need a clutch switch.

Is it true? No kidding? I ve just flash it using ksmod 1.03 a months a go, but I still have to lift gas pedal when shifting the gear to smooth the rpm, otherwise the engine will shocked

[foxdie]

Is it true? No kidding? I ve just flash it using ksmod 1.03 a months a go, but I still have to lift gas pedal when shifting the gear to smooth the rpm, otherwise the engine will shocked

It's not a perfect system, it needs human intervention to tune it. I think having the clutch switch at the top of the pedal (replacing the stopper) is better, it gives the ECU time to react when you start to depress the clutch to enable NTLS.

[ersanalamin]

I think having the clutch switch at the top of the pedal (replacing the stopper) is better,

any link/guidance to make one, Jason?

[foxdie]

Yes, please read this post (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?61071-Kenneth-s-ECU-Mods-V2-0&p=693302&viewfull=1#post693302) for more info :)

[foxdie]

Another $10 donation :thumbsup:

[foxdie]

And another 2 x $10 :thumbsup:

[Davezj]

just thought i would bring this thread back to life, and ask the question, @Kenneth (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=1403) @foxdie (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=51922) @Hotwire (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=51752) @lateshow (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=69168) Adam.Findlay Shtiv

has the rom at the start of the thread been updated with all the little bit that have been raised in this thread that need to be changed in the rom to get all the options working.

i am after a rom that has all stock maps no modificaltion to fueling, timing, fuel cut, or anything like that but i do want to impliment the engine light knock light up.
i will do any changes to the rom when i need to do it.
is there a rom out there with this setup.
or do i have to go through all the post in this thread and try to piece together all the stuff that people have been chating about.
all help most welcome.

[Kenneth]

The 1.3 version ROM (the one at the start of the thread) is the last iteration of ECU mods before the 2.0 which features the more advanced 8 way configurations.

If you just want CEL on knock, then the 1.3 ROM will work. Not sure which "little bits" you mean, if you list the ones you are interested in I'll let you know if they were implemented.

However I would suggest that you download the ROM and definition and check it out in the program first, if the option you want is there then it is implemented.


just thought i would bring this thread back to life, and ask the question, @Kenneth (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=1403) @foxdie (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=51922) @Hotwire (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=51752) @lateshow (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/member.php?u=69168) Adam.Findlay Shtiv

has the rom at the start of the thread been updated with all the little bit that have been raised in this thread that need to be changed in the rom to get all the options working.

i am after a rom that has all stock maps no modificaltion to fueling, timing, fuel cut, or anything like that but i do want to impliment the engine light knock light up.
i will do any changes to the rom when i need to do it.
is there a rom out there with this setup.
or do i have to go through all the post in this thread and try to piece together all the stuff that people have been chating about.
all help most welcome.

[Davezj]

Cheers Kenneth,
your a star, thanks for the swift reply.
basically i just want a stock rom as with the CEL mod so i can copy over the changes i have made to the staock factory rom on my car. i have only changed the basic stuff, raising the fuel cut level, added the 2 byte load,
raised the max speed limit, and a couple of other things.
so from hrer on in i am going to go down the removing knock form various areas with the timing adjustment. then i will be happy for a while.

[wintertidenz]

Hey Kenneth - did you ever get the boost increase via the ROM working? When I eventually get my ECU flashed, I would like to avoid having to install an EBC...

[Davezj]

yes he did,
you can dail in the required bost with the factory boost solenoid, but i dont know which rom that was implimented in, it might be 2.0 with the switching maps.
i remember last year sitting down with jason fixdie and going through all of this with him.

[Kenneth]

You can modify the boost in any ROM so long as you have access to the correct boost control maps. The switched maps implementation just allows you switch boost profiles on the move.

The #1 issue is that the standard boost solenoid isn't ideal for boost control at higher boost, if you want to make a good go at it, you are better off getting one of the many available plug in replacements (I have a GM unit with adaptor harness which I got through OzVR4)

[wintertidenz]

Right, thanks Dave and Kenneth. Sounds like a 3-port solenoid from Tactrix or similar will be the go along with a reflash.

[Davezj]

You can modify the boost in any ROM so long as you have access to the correct boost control maps. The switched maps implementation just allows you switch boost profiles on the move.

It is the just that issue of having all the maps you want to change being defined in the definition file.
The definition file I am using does not have the lots of the map location specified as the were not known about when I first started to look at the rom modification, the boost map is one of them. Changed anything for a while.
This what I really meant when I said has everything been implemented in you rom, not the extra stuff but all the correct maps defined and address offsets setup. So I do not have to start changing code in the definition to get it working properly file before I start using you rom.
It just seemed pointless going through and making any changes when it has already been done by everybody else that is using you rom already.
Cheers Kenneth, I do appreciate all the work you put in on this rom, which is why I sent you a contribution early in the process, as it is a very time consuming task.

[fassi1]

i am after a rom that has all stock maps no modificaltion to fueling, timing, fuel cut, or anything like that but i do want to impliment the engine light knock light up.
I'm also interested in implementing only cel on knock to my own rom.

[Davezj]

from the 1.02 thread this issue was highlighted but nothing was said about fixing it. but the chat changed to map switching instead.
was this issue fixed befroe 1.03 was released?

copy of post number 123 below,
"Kenneth,

Just found out something, but, you maybe already know about it. Anyway, here is what I tested, only the "Ignition Map2 Hi Octane", (with address 0x118b9 table), I modified the ignition timing in the cells 1500, 2000rpm and 20, 30, 40 load, and then logged with Evoscan with revving to around 1500rpm. I found that the ignition timing has been changed to similar to what I changed in the table. Then I turned on the A/C, and the ignition timing immediately changed back to the original value; and then I turned off A/C again, and the ignition timing changed to the modified value.

So, I assume:

Ignition Map 1, 1176F, A/C on
Ignition Map 2, 118B9, A/C off

Do you think my assumption is correct? or you already know about this?

KC"

this post was replied to and someone else did say they had tested this issue and it was a real issue.
just wondering if it was fixed.

thanks dave

[Kenneth]

No, I don't think I did anything about that. I couldn't get any decent information about it when I requested.

If you want to test it, I am happy to take another look at it. You need to do as the original test, then swap the maps around to see if switching on the A/C activates the other high octane map.

[Davezj]

ok whan i get round to using this rom i will try it.
as i now understand how this rom works is it only uses the KS ignition maps the others are effectively redundant.

i presume i will have to do the test with the following maps to test it.
KS Ignition Map High OCTANE #1
KS Ignition Map High OCTANE #2

as these are the maps the 1.03 rom will use,
but the addresses of the maps supplied by KC are of the original ones
Ignition Map 1 - HI OCTANE #1
Ignition Map 2 - HI OCTANE #2

as the original maps are not used by rom 1.03 there is no point in testing them.
so as long as the KS ignition maps don't switch over with A/C on off test then it will be OK!

am i right in thinking this.

[Kenneth]

The original maps are visible because I think I used the standard base definition and just added to it. They should not be used in any way, if they are then there is a big problem.

I think you are on the correct path. The thing is that while I changed the map location, the operation is all the same. So if the standard ROM changes map with A/C then so will mine. However it should only change within the 2 maps (high octane #1 and high octane #2).

My understanding of the problem reported was that the person only changed one of those maps and found, on testing, that when A/C was applied, it switched to the other (which had been left standard)

Personally I never encountered any issues, but I have to admit I always change both maps and never really did much in the way of testing.

Now I use the switched maps (2.0) which is a different beast and will only switch maps based on your configuration.

I hope that clarifies things for you. If not, I guess just ask again :)

[Davezj]

The original maps are visible because I think I used the standard base definition and just added to it. They should not be used in any way, if they are then there is a big problem.

I think you are on the correct path. The thing is that while I changed the map location, the operation is all the same. So if the standard ROM changes map with A/C then so will mine. However it should only change within the 2 maps (high octane #1 and high octane #2).

My understanding of the problem reported was that the person only changed one of those maps and found, on testing, that when A/C was applied, it switched to the other (which had been left standard)

Personally I never encountered any issues, but I have to admit I always change both maps and never really did much in the way of testing.

Now I use the switched maps (2.0) which is a different beast and will only switch maps based on your configuration.

I hope that clarifies things for you. If not, I guess just ask again :)

makes perfect sense kenneth, thanks for your clarity of description.
i have been thinking about this alot and reading the threads again, realising i really didn't understand it the first few times, but now i think i am getting my head round it.

just got my head round it some more, and as long as you make the same changes to both Hi octane map 1 and hi octane map 2 then it does not matter if some peraeiter switch between them as the are the same.

just for my sanity, i have gone back and checked my original rom from the car and it is the same configuration as your rom that there are 2 maps for each of the fuel HI and LO and ignition HI and LO and the pairs of maps are set to the same values. so i suppose the thing to do is update both maps when you are making changes then it doesn't matter.
thanks for all your help.

[Davezj]

i have been looking at some other stuff and this makes sense and links in with the tables we have for start up fuel enrichment.
this was a question i asked a while back how and why does the ecu shove so much extra fuel in the engine while the cold and up to normal operating engine temp.
the guy has changed the names of the tables to suit him but it looks right. and there are some good diagrams making it a bit more obvious.

by the way,
ISCV is Idle Stepper Control Valve
IPW is Injector Pulse Width

http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/644259-start-up-fuel-iscv-tables.html

[Davezj]

here is another link to lots of links on the EvolutionM.net which is basically a read all of this before you start tuning you EVO.

it is all EVO related but it looks like most of it is comparable to a VR4

http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/442619-important-ecu-thread-links.html

[Davezj]

I have come across with some cars whose boost control solenoid works perfectly and some cars tend to have problems. Some people have said that in 5th gear (manual) boost goes too easily to ~1.5 bar with settings that give you 1.0 bar with 3rd gear in higher revs. You dont need to push the pedal much compared to what it takes with smaller gears. Using tps controlled boost could help but propalby it would be useless as it would generate up and down kind of boost humping... but as I said, no need, forget what i said.

hi lauri, lateshow
did you ever get to the bottom of this overboosting as my car does the same, were the cars running stock boost control or after market boost control?
all help gretefully received
Dave

[fassi1]

here is another link to lots of links on the EvolutionM.net which is basically a read all of this before you start tuning you EVO.

it is all EVO related but it looks like most of it is comparable to a VR4

http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/442619-important-ecu-thread-links.html

There is definitely a lot to learn and a lot to play with.
Well done Dave.

[Davezj]

the more you look at it the more complicated it seems to get,
but the majority of the stuff can be left alone as it is all in good shape and does not need adjusting.
however i am looking at some tables and values and they seem to be complete nonsense, like rpm values of 160,000 to 240,000 in some tables, i must be missing something here, like the tables are used with some kind of multiplication or division factor.

i think my problem is, i want to understand everything before i start changing stuff and that is just not going to happen, i know enough to be going on with now, but i don't think i know enough to be starting, i feel i need to everything about it and i just don't.
if that makes any kind of sense.

[fassi1]

It's something definitely can't be mastered in short period of time.
It's the research which makes progress very slow.
I need to sort out my 3D tables which display load only max 200, not like Kenneth's max 300.

[lateshow]

Davezj : I think that our boost control system as standard is so ****ty that we cant have a proper boost control with it. I'm thinking of t-smart and electrical boost controlles as a better method of boost control :)

[Davezj]

Cheers Lauri, thank for the response, I thought you would be talking about the standard factory boost control.
Unfortunately mine is an after market ebc, I think I am pushing it past the boost pressure it was designed to control. It is supposed to be good for 25psi, I am only trying to 18psi but in 4th & 5th it is boosting to 1.5-1.6 bar. I know this is false boost and the turbos can't actually maintain this pressure when the engine starts to use the boost in anger, but it is still a little odd.
Maybe I have some setup to do on ebc to dial the over boost out.

[Davezj]

on a differnt note, has anyone used the lean spool feature in the rom.
i have checked my current rom and kens rom and both have the feature turned off as standard in the ECU Pariphery1 table. i can see it says "believe incorrect" next to it, but has anyone tryied to get this to work.
and what benefit did it make fuel wise.
as i am presuming this is suposed to be a fuel saving option that dumps slightly less fuel in when you put your foot down initially then checks the full quantity of fuel in if the spool up continues to build.
i have not heard of anyone mention it.

[Davezj]

i have another question,
there are some fan control tables at the bottom of the 1.03 map, well there are lots of them, what do they do and why so many.

the on and off point seem to be the wrong way round.

[Kenneth]

The definition isn't one which I spent much time with, as far as I am aware it was the "latest" definition at the time which contained a lot of tables which were being tested for what they did.

It wasn't the best way to do things which is why I cleaned up and did a complete new set of definitions for the 2.0 mods. As such... "I know NOTHING"

[Davezj]

thanks for your response kenneth, so it is a bit of what you see is what you get.
Thats fine, as long as i know, if somthing is marked untested or not working it is an unknow quantity, apart from the CEL on Knock because that is working but it is still marked as not working in the rom. but it has already been proven to work.
that kind of clears thing up, but make me think i might be better off using your V2.0 rom.
i will have to have a think about this now.
thanks for all you help.

[AKKO]

Donation sent , keep up the good work mate.

[Davezj]

after tonights playing with some of the rom tables in particular the fan control tables, all i can say is

DON'T MESS WITH THESE TABLES AT ALL!

i can ged all of the fan control tables to make the fans come on at 90 and go off at 86, which i thought was a reasonable thing to do as i assumed they would have something to do with the fan switching on and off.
guess what happened.

my fueling went ultra lean at 20.5:1 and when i reved the engine slightly it when down to 19.7:1 this is very bad, very very Bad.
so at least one of the addresses these tables are pointing at effect the fueling, i did not investigate any further by adjusting each table individually, so i don't know which table does the bad fueling thing, it might be all of them.

BE WARNED!!!!

this highlights the reason for having an AFR gauge fitted to you car before you start playing with the ECU. the only noticable thing i could tell after flashing the adjusted rom perameters to the ecu was the idle was slightly laboured but nothing more than that. so had i just got in the car and and started logging with evoscan to see what happened, andgaive it a boot like you do with a reflash. i would have been faced with a trashed engine.

BE WARNED!.

i have nothing against the rom itself as the fan control tables were marked as incorrect, but you have to check this stuff for yourself.

the CEL knock feature is marked as "not working" in the setup bits but i can confirm it does work, and it work very well.

i can confirm also that the "target idle RPM - Drive (untested) is working fine as i changed the 602 rpm to 648 rpm just to make the idle in drive less bogged down/stally and reduce any vibration when holding the car on brakes in drive. and this made it feel much nicer when held on the bakes.

[Davezj]

i have a theory about the tables as i have been doing some research into mitsi roms in general and it seem to be the case that if a table scale ends before the values in the table ends then the last entry in the table data at the top of scale applies to any value of the scale obove the top of the table applies.

for example,
the fuel map if it stops at a load of 200 and the last entry on the 5500rpm line is 11.0, if a scenario is encountered where a load value of 220 is recorded at 5500rpm then the desired AFR of 11.0 in the 200/5500rpm cell is applied to the load value of 220.

what i al saying is when you reach the top end of scal in a table the last value applys to any scale value that goes beyond tthe end of the table.

ihear you all say what are you rabbiting on about, get to the point i lost interest about 5 mins ago.
well hear goes,
ECONOMY!!!!
quite a few of the the start up fuel enrichment tables where the enrichment % of fuel is related to collant temp is scaled so as the coolant temp increases the fuel enrichment decreases. up to 82deg C normally, so once the engine has reached normal working temp it will be above 82deg C, but the last entry in the table at 82deg C is 6% fuel enrichment, so if these fuel start up enrichment tables work in the same way as the other tables that most people mess with when tuning there roms, then all of the fueling setups that are meticulosly done over weeks of logging, the ecu just says i don't care what you have set up in the fuel table, i am going to slap 6% more fuel in than you actually asked for.
which is not a bad thing when you are booting it. but when you set up the low load areas and hopefully lean runing cruise areas of the maps the ecu is stuffing more fuel for laugh, when it really is not needed.

well that is a theory weather it ture or not i don't know, but i might be able to prove it by adjusting all the the start up fuel enrichment table so the final value in the table is 0% enrichment.
this can be achieved in a safe way be removing a low temp value say the -32deg C value and adding a higher temp value in the table say 83 or 84 deg C 0% value just to make sure the table has no effect on any fueling above the top temp in the table.

you may thing OOOOOHH! 6% reduction, there are quite a few tables that are constructed like this and if it is a compound effect, thet 6% could easily become 36% enrichment, that is not required to be there. even if it is only 6% if you use your vr4 every day as a daily driver the £300 fuel bill a month is not difficlt to achieve and 6% of that is £18 a month saved. if it is a compounded enrichment issue the happy days.

this needs some investigation, and i am not quite sure how to do it but i will work it out, but anyone has any thought or information on this thought process or ways of testing this theory, let me know.

[lateshow]

Well if your theory is correct it might have a small effect when NOT in closed loop. Cause as we see closed loop basically seems to override anything. If we had 6 % more fuelling we wouldn't get lambda value to 1.0 in closed loop. Then there's this thing about enrichments. There are several enrichments in the ecu. At least 1) during startup and closely after 2 ) after startup 3 ) general enrichment (which you're referring now). We have had issues with ethanol fuel starting and it seems that starting a cold engine is very hard. After it starts AFR's go through the roof (to rich) but it wont start no matter what i do.

[Davezj]

i am taking on board all the stuff i am reading and be told about the ecu tables so i am not ignoring anything on this subject as be costly if do something stupid.

i have noticed as well that when i first start my car i get AFR of about 12.0:1 which quickly rises to high 13, low 14 in 30 seconds or so. then takes a cople of minutes to get up to stoic. and it not up to normal temp by then either.

[Davezj]

i am taking on board all the stuff i am reading and be told about the ecu tables so i am not ignoring anything on this subject as be costly if do something stupid.

i have noticed as well that when i first start my car i get AFR of about 12.0:1 which quickly rises to high 13, low 14 in 30 seconds or so. then takes a cople of minutes to get up to stoic. and it not up to normal temp by then either.

[Xaxasv6]

It takes long time to get in idle mode. If the car stands still, and I go on 1000 RPM it takes about 10 seconds till i'm on my 820 u/min. Is this normal?

[Xaxasv6]

Is anyone active here?
I'm getting a lot knocks with this rom... Can anyone help?

[Nick Mann]

You aren't giving enough information. I'm assuming u/min is rpm? Hot or cold? Air con running? Ambient temperature? When does it knock? What boost, what fuelling (mods and afr) what revs, what load etc?

[Xaxasv6]

Okay give me a minute. I will upload the log

EDIT: Sorry... didnt configured evoscan right

Air con is off
ambient arround 20°C
Aral Ultimate 102
max boost is 1,3 bar in low rpm full throttle

http://www.file-upload.net/download-10628150/EvoScanDataLog_2015.05.18_18.21.49.csv.html

[Adam.Findlay]

For starters 1.3bar is out of the efficiency range of the stock turbos. More boost doesnt mean more power when youbhave to pull a heap of ignition timing out of it to prevent it knocking. Stick to around 1 bar
And if you do have the ability to flash on KSmods rom you have the ability to retard the timing to prevent knock. So start by doing a bit of basic tuning. If you dont know how you probably should take it to someone who does and pay them to tune it. As a botched tune is the quickest way to a buggered motor.

[Kenneth]

You cant just put the ROM in and expect it to work well. You need to tune it.

The ROM attached is effectively the ROM as it came out of my car. It probably has some minor tuning to the AFR and Ignition tables which may make it un-suitable for many cars.

You need to do data logging, specifically check the knock count, 2 byte RPM and 2 byte load. Using these, you can adjust the ignition so that you do not get knock. Once you get to that stage, you are at least starting from a map which is not going all over the place and can get some consistent data out of it.

As Adam said, 1.3 bar is way too high. You want to go for 1 bar max to start with (and actually, you won't make any power above that)

what you actually want to do is look at Load. Load is "effort" as calculated by the ECU, you can get lower load at higher boost levels, which indicates that you are boosting too high (the ECU doesn't know boost, just load). A good place to be is your highest load point at the lowest boost you can achieve it.

Personally I like to use a 3 port solenoid and the standard boost control. This way you can monitor the error correction values and see how easily the ECU is maintaining a load value and what boost parameters it takes to get there. With the ability to tune these, using a MBC or external boost controller seems to me to be a step backwards.

[Xaxasv6]

Here are some new Questions:

If i flash this rom. Kenneths Fuel Maps will be surely used?
Anti Lag settings will be used for Launch Control too?

Previously i asked if i have to use original xml for flashing.
And I have to say that you have to use it. If i use Kenneth's XML it ends with an error.
if use standart XML there are no errors.

[crazydriver81]

Kenneth & Adam.Findlay -> I love you guys. Straight to the point with your words. ;)

[Vanek]

Hi to all from Russia) Kenneth, HUGE thanks for your mods!
And i have first question since i've been reeding this forum for few years.)


...Personally I like to use a 3 port solenoid and the standard boost control. This way you can monitor the error correction values and see how easily the ECU is maintaining a load value and what boost parameters it takes to get there. With the ability to tune these, using a MBC or external boost controller seems to me to be a step backwards.
How to log error correction? "WGDC Correction" in EvoScan always shows "63,5". Do i have to change request ("8B" by default) or to edit MUT table?

[Kenneth]

Doesn't seem to be in the MUT table, I think its 0xF31D (total correction after correction + max correction vs TPS)

I would have to compare with the Evo tables to be 100% certain on that, but its worth having a look at in the mean time. If you do find it looks good, please let us know.

[Vanek]

Looks like it is working correctly now. Thank you!

[Xaxasv6]

Hey guys,
Ive got a big problem... I flashed the rom with no issues.... Edited it to eliminate knocks... All without problems... But now i tried to change launch control again... I've Set it to 5500... Now i wanted to rise it and change afr to 10.5... And I get the error:failed to erase page at 00020000 and flash fails :(:( any advise?

[Davezj]

do you have open port cable with head phone jack in the middle of the reflash section of the cable as an extension cable, i had one like this and the headphone jack connection failed. i cut this part of the cable down and soldered it perminently together, it has been fine aver since.

[Xaxasv6]

I've got the tactrix Flash cable. it worked till today without problems :/

[Davezj]

tactrix is the manufacure open port 2.0 is the type of cable.
as standand the cable come as a read only cable but the additional reflash cable that plugs into the connector next to the diagnostic port is the part of the cable i am talking about.
if this part of the cable is no longer making a good connection your attenpts at reflashing will fail.
this is exactly what happened to me one day it was working the bext day it failed.

If what you say is true and you have not adjusted any setting or moved any roms or definition files from folder to folder then it can only be a cable fail.

but if you have changed somthing else you are not telling us then we are not mind reads we only know what you tell us. if you don't give us the info then you will not get an accurate diagnosis.

[Xaxasv6]

Thanks for your answer. Nope i did not changed any XML File. I justed changed these 2 settings.
But i did not say, that it flashes about the half of the rom before this failure comes
Okay thanks. So i should solder it maybe.
So u've cutted the headphone jack off and soldered the cable to the main adapter?
P. S. Test write works

[wintertidenz]

Check your battery voltage. It may be sitting too low and it bombs out halfway through the flash.

[Xaxasv6]

Battery should be Okay. Anyway i tried another one... Same issue

[Kenneth]

It'll be the wrong memory model.

This is normally a problem because of the chain of how you do things.
If you connect to the ECU and download the ROM, the memory model is defined by the one you selected for downloading. This stays in memory and it then uploads using the same one.

If you save the ROM to your computer, then close down ECU Flash, when you load it back up and open the ROM, it will use the memory model defined in the XML.

If you need further help, could you please start a new thread? I would like not to have this one cluttered up too much by general issues un-related to the ROM modifications.

[Grid]

Could a mod pin this thread instead of the 1.02 one? :-) Sorry for the thread necromancy, but in case somebody (me!) is looking for information, the old 1.02 thread is pinned and this newer one, as well as the 2.0 one, are hidden in the depths of prehistory.

[Nick Mann]

Could a mod pin this thread instead of the 1.02 one? :-) Sorry for the thread necromancy, but in case somebody (me!) is looking for information, the old 1.02 thread is pinned and this newer one, as well as the 2.0 one, are hidden in the depths of prehistory.

Fair point, well made.

[Grid]

Fair point, well made.

Cheers :thumbsup:

[Xaxasv6]

Hi again. As ive seen, the lean spool afr is different as in merlins guide. But you wrote, that the afr is matching.

[filthyrich]

Any chance this will work on a 7201 metal ECU? I have the dongle to flash it. I'd try it, but I don't want to brick it.

[Davezj]

no kenneths rom only works on 7202 and 7203 processors in the ecu.
the 7201 is an earlier version of the processor and the addressing is different or something like that.
the H8 inbetween the 7201 and 7202 processors can use kenneths roms but you need the mmcFlash dongle to read and write the rom.

[Xaxasv6]

Hi mates, got the next problem... it seems as my ecu uses the stock fuel map. OFC im usin KSmod. But during full throttle it seems as the ecu uses the stock fuel maps, not the ks fuel maps.
Can anyone help me?

[Davezj]

how are you determining the map the ecu is using?

remember the ecu will interpolate between HI and LO octane fuel maps on kenneths Rom so if you have Lo octane map that is 2 AFR less than the HI octane map and you have so knock then the timing and AFR could get pulled right down to the value in the LO octane map.

this is how you could test it.
create a test rom and do the following.
the way you can test which map is being used is to set the KS maps so the LO octane map is exactly the same as the HI octane map, do the same for the standard fuel and ignition tables and make sure the standard and KS tables are significantly different. Then knock will not cause interpolation and the value viewed in the trace mapper should be the value in the Hi octane map. you can then see which maps value are recorded.
this will prove which map you are using.
don't go mad when you are testing the maps as you have removed the safety effect of the HI and LO octane map feature.

well this what i would do.

[Xaxasv6]

Hello, thanks for answer. Ive set the ks lo octane as high octane. Stock fuel maps will be edited next time. But it is significantly different cuz the ks got 11 under wot and the stock got 9.6. And the wideband was showing 9.8 :/

[Anderz]

No need to set HI and LOW maps to same, just log Octane rating and knock. If 100 and zero then ecu will use HI maps.
How have you tested what map is being used?
Much better way to test is to log Ignition timing vs Load and Rpm to determine what map is used.
The fact that afr on the wideband does not match the wanted taget afr is probably down to injector scaling.

[Davezj]

I was going to say this but I think anderz has covered it

You can do the following, log the AFR through evoscan and use map tracer to see the result cell for cell in a representation the fuel table.

Does you AFR gauge need calibrating.?


Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[deme22]

Hey guys :) as ive seen this thread is about a upgraded ecu mapping i just wanted to ask if somebody is able to write with me via PM , because actually im new to this stuff and i really want to understand whats happening with my car if ill do this mod - will also donate something for it :bump: , but maybe somebody is able to help me understand this , because english is not my native language :/

Cheers / liebe grüße
Paul

[Nick Mann]

Have a read of this first:
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?62831-Common-tuning-FAQ

I am not well enough versed in flashing the ecu to help, but many on these forums are. Have a read of the other thread, and then start a new thread about your project with your specific questions. It might also be worth saying what your native language is?

[Davezj]

watch the videos here and ensure you understand everything that is said before you start messing with an ECU tables.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?67698-Basic-Introduction-to-ECUflash-rom-tuning-and-Evoscan-logging&highlight=introduction+ecuflash

[Xaxasv6]

Can anyone tell me how to get Max ign retard to do its job? :D
I think I can't copy formulas and bits from kenneth 2.0?
I can't edit those parameters in 1.3 version :/ but wanna go further than - 10

[Davezj]

I believe the max ignition retard is what the ecu can retard the ignition timing by when it detects knock.
This value is applied on top of the ignition value set in the ignition table.
I thought the max retard was 12.
But I could be wrong.


Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[Xaxasv6]

I believe the max ignition retard is what the ecu can retard the ignition timing by when it detects knock.
This value is applied on top of the ignition value set in the ignition table.
I thought the max retard was 12.
But I could be wrong.


Sent from my space-aged gizmo

Ty for answer. But I believe that something is wrong with the address or something. Merlin guide tells us how to retard ignition more. But in the kenneth rom it isn't editable :/ don't know why cuz formulas etc are right... :(
I hope kenneth will answer this question :D

[Davezj]

As far as I understand it in my ecu I can edit the max retard but the max value is about 10 or 12. I can set to less than the max value but not more.
But I can check when I get home from work and confirm one way or the other.


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[Davezj]

Max retard on knock value is adjustable. but it is specified as untested table so it might not do want you want it to do.

open the value select it and just hit = key and type in the value you want
or use ] key for up and [ key for down.

the max value is actually 44.4

The antilag ignition retard on the other hand does not seem to adjust with the ] up key and [ down key. but use the = key and type the value in and it changes OK

[Xaxasv6]

Ye that's the retard on knock. But I wanna go further than - 10 degree for pops and bangs.

[Davezj]

if you want pops and bangs on accelerator lift off retard the timing in the bottom left corner of the ignition timing table.

set the timing in say the bottom 4 rows and 3 colums to -40 ish and this will give you the pops and bangs on lift off.
it will not do your turbos much good but it will make pops and bangs.


so are you wanting to change the 'Max retard on knock value' or the 'Antilag ignition retard'

if it is the 'Max retard on knock value' i don't see why you would want to have poops and bang if you are getting knock.



i you really do want to change the timing i have told you above that both are adjustable and how to do it. i don't see why you would still be having an issue.

[Xaxasv6]

The ECU will not use timing below - 10 degree. That's the value I wanna change. - 4o won't be used becuz the ECU is limited to - 10 without changes.
Both Max retard in knock and anti lag ign retard does not change the value i want to change.
Thanks for your help but that's not the answer I need :)

[Davezj]

What do you mean 'does not change' ?
Do you mean you can't change it in the tables in ecuflash,
Or
You can change the value in the tables in ecu flash but when you monitor the timing with evoscan the result do not go below -10.

The reason I ask is I can change the valves in the 'max retard on knock' table to -44.4 in the table in ecuflash and I am using rom 1.03
This is why I am finding it difficult to understand what you are saying when you say you can't change the the value.


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[Xaxasv6]

In the ign maps I can set it to - 40 ye. But if I log it with evoscan - 10 is the lowest ign timing possible during overrun.

But the max retard on knock setting is not the value which limits the regular max ign retard.?!

I need the value which limits the max ign retard which I can set /is used in ign maps/tables

[Davezj]

In the ign maps I can set it to - 40 ye. But if I log it with evoscan - 10 is the lowest ign timing possible during overrun.

But the max retard on knock setting is not the value which limits the regular max ign retard.?!

I need the value which limits the max ign retard which I can set /is used in ign maps/tables



ok now we are getting somewhere, i understand what you mean now.

i have set my timing map to give pops and bangs in the past but i got bored of that very quickly.
i set the the bottom left cell 3 column and 3 rows to about -40 and this chucks the fuel straight out of the exhaust valve through the turbo and into the exhaust before/as it is igniting it. which give the pop and bangs.
so you can do it, but you have to make sure you adjust the correct ignition tables.

i have a rom with pops and bangs set up on it at home i will post it up and let you see what you need to do.
but don use the map as the timing and fueling will be wrong for your car.

i am assuming you have the correct rom for editing and you have the correct definition files for interprating the rom file you need both the EKS11.xml and the VR4base.xml (i think these are the names) if you dont have the EKS11.xml you will not have any of kenneths feature editable in the rom all of kenneths features have Kenneth in the title.

i am only talking about timing map tables here there are fuel map tables as well. but i am only refuring to timing map tables.



firstly, and it is an obvious one,

there are 2 sets of of ignition and fuel tables in keneths rom 1.03 the smaller standard size tables 2x hi octane and 2x low octane as seen in the original rom 'Do Not Use these tables they do not work in kenneths rom'
you must use the tables with 'kenneth' in the title (2x hi octane and 2 x low octane) these are much bigger and give more cells to adjust to get a smoother tune.

secondly,
the 'max retard on Knock' does exactly what it says on the tin any detected knock will only retard the timing up to the value you enter in this table no matter how bad the knock is. set it to 1 and the engine could be knocking its tits off but the timing will only be retarded by 1 degree by this table, because that is what you have set it to, it is a safety feature.
this has nothing to do with the ignition timing you set in the ignition map table.
the knock retardation will be additional to what you set in the ignition map.

thirdly,
when you say you are adjusting the ignition timing map, i am assuming you are adjusting the tables titled 'kenneth'
there are 2 hi octane maps and 2 low octane maps.
set both hi octane maps to the same valves always.
set both low octane maps to the same valves always.

If you change the timing for pops and bangs in one of the hi octane tables you have to change the other hi octane table and the 2 x octane tables.
to set the low octane timing map table i generally copy the hi octane able and paste it into the low table then select the entire low table and reduce all the values by 3 degrees. it a but of duty way of doing it but it give you a safety margin at all values in the table. you can reduce it by more if you want.

to operate correctly the values in the low octane maps must be less than the values in the hi octane map, an obvious statement i know.

when the car is running and depending on the conditions in the engine (load, knock, RPM, etc) the timing used will be somewhere in between the hi octane and low octane map the ecu interpolates between the hi and low octane maps.
it would be very rare for the engines timing to be exactly what is in the hi octane map, or the low octane map, these are just the end points of the possible range of values that can be selected by the ecu.


have a read of this and if it all makes sense get back to me and tell me why yours is not working. i will post up the rom tonight with the pops and bangs set up in it..

[Davezj]

here is the pops and bang rom, use the ignition timing from bottom left corner and the fuel map in the bottom left corner.

75970

[Xaxasv6]

Ty for your answer. But i think this rom wont use more than -10 degrees too.

[Davezj]

When you downloaded the rom I posted up could you open it and see the changes that have been made to the fueling and ignition timing in the areas I said?

Post up you rom I will try and modify it, let you know if can be done or not and i will post it back up for you

I can't give you any more help than that.


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[Kenneth]

There is a maximum retard value somewhere in the ROM. I think it might be 0x1033e

[Xaxasv6]

Yep the value should exist. And the formulas etc are right in your rom. But cuz any reason I can't change it. Doesn't matter if u try to change hex or Dec. Your addresses and formulas match this one from merlins guide which should work. But I can't change hex or Dec value. It just shows 57.7. That's all :(

[Davezj]

Still waiting for the rom to appear!


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[Xaxasv6]

75985

thats my rom atm

[Davezj]

Xaxasv6

just opened up your rom and in the area where you have set the ignition timing to -10 i can set the value to whatever i want.
by either using the up and down keys or the = keys

not sure what you are doing wrong.

here is rom back with the timing changed to some random values.
i used your definition files as well.

75986

[Xaxasv6]

The problem is that the ECU does not use ign unter - 10

[Nick Mann]

Dave, have you logged the area where you have set -40 degrees? Does your ECU actually do it? I believe Philipp is not saying he can't set it to -40 just that the ecu will not run that much retard. I think he believes that due to his logging, there must be another overall limit somewhere that prevents -40 being used and sets a limit of -10. Kenneth seem to agree with the overall limit being set elsewhere. So if you are actually running -40, you must have overcome this issue at some point?

[Davezj]

I am try to get him to explain what his is doing and trying to do in a clear and concise way.
Which he has not done yet.


If you look at the rom he sent over which he said is the rom he is using he has only set the timing to -10 not -20 or -40, but -10. So I don't see how he can get more than -10 degree of retard.

I am trying to get him to help himself and show us what he is actually doing not what he thinks he is doing.

It is very easy to get it wrong, and he is obviously getting it wrong and he doesn't know it. he only has the timing set to -10 degree.

Personally I don't run pops and bangs it is a pointless and some what childish thing to do.
However childishness has its place and we all like to indulge our inner child every now and then.

The rom I posted up was from a car that successfully had pops and bangs setup on there car and does pop and bang on over run. But it does depend on what exhaust is fitted. As silencer/mufflers can deaden the effect massively as we found out.



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[Xaxasv6]

Yep Nick is right. I can set retard below - 10 in the ign map. But I can't change the max retard.
There is an error somewhere in this rom. Cuz merlins Guide says that the max ign retard can be edited with the formulas and paths, which are in kenneth rom. Dunno what's wrong.
dave: I know what I'm doing. The problem is just the max retard limit which can't be changed.

[Davezj]

You need to be clearer on what the issue is and what you have done to try and diagnose/fix it.

Obviously pops and bangs are achievable with the current rom because there many people that have it switched on you just have to look at all the cars at the rolling road days with it switch and displaying it.

The ignition retard not going below -10 well that is interesting.




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[Xaxasv6]

Yep ign is limited to -10. The rom does not care about the ign tables below - 10 :D
Max ignition retard is the value which limits the retard. This needs to be fixed :D
Sry but I can't write anything I want in English :D

[Davezj]

by the way don't believe everything you read in merlins guide make sure you double check it and confirm the result, there are mistakes in it from what i remember when i first started looking into ecu modification stuff. it has been created from the Evo guide and he seems to have left some of the evo stuff in there that does not apply to the VR4.
i am not having a go at merlin i think he has done a great job, but there is some misinformation in the document.

[Kenneth]

Philipp, how are you testing this?

It may be an issue with the anti-lag retard limit, shown here.
76002

[Xaxasv6]

Philipp, how are you testing this?

It may be an issue with the anti-lag retard limit, shown here.
76002

I don't think so. Ive set it to - 15

I'm testing it with evoscan logs

[Kenneth]

You are going to have to be more detailed in what you are doing, both with what you are logging and how you are driving the car to test.

Telling me you are using evoscan does no help in any way.

If you don't provide sufficient information for me to help, I'm not going to.

[Xaxasv6]

76011Ye ok, sry ;)
So, I've set timing in ign map to - 20 from 2000 to 5000 in the first 3 load columns. In evoscan I take a look on ign timing while overrun in this rpm area and it shows - 10. Even if I go up in load column to 10 load with a little step on the throttle pedal i just get - 10 degree.
For any reason I think there is something wrong with the xml files. Somewhere needs to be a barrier :/

[Davezj]

which tables are you setting the ignition timing in, you need to set it in all 4 ignition tables to get it to work, are you doing this?

[Xaxasv6]

No I don't do that cuz as I know, high octane is being used since it knocks.
I put pops and bangs in high octane.
Davezj thanks for your help but we need to find what's limiting the max ign retard

[Davezj]

All I am going to say is lo octane map must have lower values it than hi octane. If you are not doing that, I give up.


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[Kenneth]

If you have detonation issues, you need to sort that first.
Doing this sort of stuff before covering off the most important tuning issue is stupid. Not only that, it makes any other tuning really hard because you are interpolating between high and low octane maps and your results are going to be very difficult to verify.

[Xaxasv6]

No I got no detonation issues. The only issue I have is that the rom limits the max ign retard somewhere :(

[apiqeva]

Hello i have tactrix 2.0 cable
Can anyone explain for install this rom?
Im flash with error metadata and definition.. thank you

[Davezj]

try looking through this thread it has all the info you will need to be able to modify you ecu rom

how you choose to modify you ecu is up to you.

https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?67698-Basic-Introduction-to-ECUflash-rom-tuning-and-Evoscan-logging&highlight=basic+ecuflash

[Xaxasv6]

Still no way to raise the max ign retard limit ? :/

[Confused]

Are you sure it's not using the 'AntiLag Ignition Retard Limit'?

[Xaxasv6]

No it doesnt :/

[Confused]

What does that mean? Help us help you, here!!

Have you changed that value and noticed that it is still only using -10?

Also - is there any reason why you're not using Ken's 2.0 ROM - that has had more development, is being used by more people, and is more likely to be updated than this old 1.03 version is :)

[Xaxasv6]

Especially cuz 2.0 got no LC and because i have some questions about 2.0 . But that would be better via a chat.
Thank you so far

[Confused]

You can set up LC via 2.0 - it's not *labelled* as such, but it's simple to do so. But, that's one for a separate thread.

[sir]

Hello!
I install subaru sti injectors (550 cc) on my VR-4. In EcuFlash set injector size about 463 cc (85% like in Merlin Tuning guide). But as result I have very low AFR -- about 20-22.
After setting injector size 398 cc I have normal AFR -- 14.4-14.7.
Is fromexpr and toexpr params in definitions wrong?

Fuel pump -- Denso from Supra 280 l/h, new wire for fuel pump and Aeromotive fuel regulator.

P.S. Sorry for my terrible English :indian_br

[Xaxasv6]

Does someone know how to wire up handbrake for the launch control?

[sir]

Launch control does not need any wiring.