Amsoil ATF , just another atf?

[amsoil]

Not trying to sell it as it should sell itself , but I liked this one and thought VR4 owners would too, (especially the track day folks)
Simply the very best ATF period!

http://www.amsoil.com/video/AMSOIL_Information_Series_Videos.aspx

/notworthy/notworthy/notworthy

[chris g]

Impressive...

Just have to get AMSOIL into the 7G...

[elnevio]

I know someone will say it is propaganda, especially being hosted on the Amsoil website, but it's difficult to lie about stuff like this and get away with it! Especially with the number of big oil companies that appear to want to sue Amsoil out of existence.

Of course, existing VR-4 owners (especially anyone who has tracked it) will know how good Amsoil ATF usually is with dealing with heat! The video also highlights the benefits of the cleaning properties of Amsoil, that other ATFs do not appear to have. As Don will confirm (perhaps not officially), this gets used by main dealers of varying marques to 'fix' dodgy autoboxes.

[Colin Wiltshire]

wow, good stuff indeed.

[Beastlee]

I have read on other forums abou the Amsoil propaganda but even if it isn't as good as the advertising makes out it certainly has proven results in our cars.

[chris g]

A lot of the stuff on the first page of an internet search is from america and about engine oil...

So many people and so many opinions...

Putting aside the contentions about engine oil, I am happy with AMSOIL being the best oil for my auto transmission...

[Ryan]

This video follows the exact same format that another well known "miracle" cure oil, that also promises:

* superior heat tolerance
* longer interval oil changes
* increased fuel economy
* superior engine life
* increased horsepower

<insert bull**** *HERE*>

This "test" portrayed in the video would have more credibility if it:

a) was conducted by an independent party
b) did not happen to coincidentally feature an Amsoil branded vehicle that was competing
c) was not presented as fact by an Amsoil employee

In case you're wondering what I'm talking about - you might have come across a brand by the name of Prolong. Prolong featured a series of commercials about 8-10 years promising exactly the same sort of "miracle cure" product. Apart from the usual "tests" featuring some metal component ground against another metal component for a certain amount of time lubricated by (X) oil - which would invariably fail after a certain amount of time - then enter the Prolong lubricated sections of metal where it went on for aaaaages! After examining the two metal pieces? Lo and behold - minimal wear.

But wait - the real kicker, which bears the same unbelievable similarity to the advertisement featured here, was when they selected a series of cars, one of which I believe was a Dodge Viper driven by a certain Al Unser [look him up]. His car had the oil drained from it and replaced with this Prolong stuff and then drained again, went around a desert (can't remember, Nevada, Arizona - somewhere deserty) track with NO OIL and his car was sweet-as.

About as believable as the stuff I'm seeing in this video posted here. Coincidentally, they (Prolong and Amsoil) both peddle their wares by means of multi-level-marketing. If Amsoil was such a superior product surely they would still have their distribution centre here in Auckland where the majority of cars are, not in Christchurch?

I have used Amsoil engine oil as well as their transmission fluid and found absolutely no evidence that compels me to pay the premium and suffer the difficulty of procurement, that their products demand.


As Don will confirm (perhaps not officially), this gets used by main dealers of varying marques to

'fix' dodgy autoboxes.

I honestly cannot see how any self-respecting mechanic / automotive brand / anyone in their right mind / can believe that simply replacing a fluid, will miraculously repair something that is inherently damaged. A replacement of fluids can never, no matter how good the product, make up for something mechanical that is physically broken and requires repair or replacement.

I'm simply speaking my mind and, in my opinion, opening up Amsoil's claims for dissection and analysis. In my opinion they are no better than any of the major brands until their products are subjected to the same SAE tests that other major brands subscribe to.

[Fully]

lol Ryan I agree with how can oil fix dodgy autoboxes.

I am still a redline user - D4 ATF in my Galant =)

[elnevio]

You will note that I put quotes around the word 'fix', in respect of fixing dodgy autoboxes.

Well, of course there is no way that any oil can replace missing metal. However, often the reason that autoboxes are dodgy is to do with the build up of varnishes on the internal components, where ATF has been cooked/overworked, leaving layering of burnt material on various surfaces. Amsoil ATF is detergent-based, and strips away a lot of these build-ups to leave a good-as-new gearbox on the inside, hence the 'dodgy' autobox is 'fixed'.

[MarkSanne]

Ryan, do you see any independent testing of oils/lubicants out there? I hardly can find any. This is one (older) example: http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf but it doesn't feature Amsoil.

[Nick Mann]

I like a bit of constructive debate. I personally don't see any destructive debate yet!

I have felt gearboxes improve with Amsoil ATF. I also know of at least one gearbox that failed whilst filled with it. Personally, I think that the failed gearbox was fated regardless, so I go with my experience of improved gearchanges, response and extended service life.

A certain gent going by the user name bernmc sent samples of used amsoil products to an independant oil lab a few years back and never had anything bad to say about the oil.

I have never said it is the only good oil - but I like it!

[chris g]

Ryan, it's helpful to read different opinion that is rationally presented

I have never heard of Prolong so the adverts you describe is completely unknown

Like various things we use in our cars and in life personal views and experience guide our choices and preferences

You make you choice and pay the money

I cannot see why you should think 'infractions' may follow for putting your point of view as you have...

[amsoil]

I have no problem in anyone giving everyone a wake up call will any claim about any product. This link was put up here because I thought it was very good watch, If you are willing to search there was one I put up a couple of years back with a certainly not scientific test on various oils where oils where cooked and finally caught fire to see what survived the longest, not too sure what it proved but it was also good to watch.
If you can accept that any real synthetic is superior to all minerals then the selection process doesn't leave you much to choose from.
I know and I truly believe that Amsoil ATF is the best in the world. I also truly believe that Synlube may produce the best 'oil' but it was £50 a litre last time I looked it up and that was before 'rip off Britains' tax collectors got to it. Of the premium oils I'm afraid it has to be Amsoil, they have been producing it longer, the first to produce SAE certified synthetic oil etc etc , but this all wasn't meant to be a hard sell, never been my style. Hard to get well yes I accept its not in petrol stations or halfrauds or even available through regional distributors, but hey the web site works and so does your phone.
How about asking Eddie Jordan if he, Jordan Grand Prix (they no longer exist so I feel free to name them) used it after the next F1 race on the red button or by text and post up what he says here. He used to have cases and paid full list (we would have given him a discount if he'd asked) ie more that Club VR4 members. Come to that hunt down a gearbox man at Benetton, or Tyrell .
Best in the world ....yeh , they can cherry pick the best base components, Castrol, Mobil et al cant do that so it hardly an even playing field is it? Have they ever been successfully sued about their claims, not to my knowledge so if anyone can find anything please feel free to post it up here. Of course even after this some will never be able to accept as it will go against the grain.

[Ryan]

I have no problem in anyone giving everyone a wake up call will any claim about any product. This link was put up here because I thought it was very good watch, If you are willing to search there was one I put up a couple of years back with a certainly not scientific test on various oils where oils where cooked and finally caught fire to see what survived the longest, not too sure what it proved but it was also good to watch.

Not entirely sure what you're driving at here given the poor sentence construction but I will assume that there are no Amsoil products involved, since none were mentioned?


If you can accept that any real synthetic is superior to all minerals then the selection process doesn't leave you much to choose from.

If by "you" I assume that you are referring to me. If so, then my previous statements were never even suggested as a debate about synthetic versus mineral as anyone worth his salt knows that synthetic oils are generally superior. As for "real" synthetics, there are plenty to choose from really if one removes their blinkers :) As for SynLube - is this their website? http://www.synlube.com/ That is a pretty ****house website and its sheer ghastly 1995 ghastliness could not compel me, with all those horrible colours, to read about their product! Amsoil does at least present their information in a structured and well presented format.


Of the premium oils I'm afraid it has to be Amsoil, they have been producing it longer, the first to produce SAE certified synthetic oil etc etc , but this all wasn't meant to be a hard sell, never been my style

Really? Where? If they've been producing it longer (longer than whom??) - why has my dad never heard of them (just as an everyday example, because he's no Eddy Jordan) and has been what I would term a "well informed" car enthusiast since the early 1970's which, as anyone who knows about the fluctuation of oil prices in recent times will know, is a pretty ****house time to operate in. If they were the "first" to produce SAE certified oil, why is it that most of their oils are not tested by the SAE and do not carry the proper SAE tested badge?







Hard to get well yes I accept its not in petrol stations or halfrauds or even available through regional distributors, but hey the web site works and so does your phone

Doesn't really help when you're stuck in the middle of nowhere and all the services only have oils that are either the wrong viscosity or there is no "miracle" cure Amsoil available, yeh? What does one do then? Pretty stuffed I'd say.


How about asking Eddie Jordan if he, Jordan Grand Prix (they no longer exist so I feel free to name them) used it after the next F1 race on the red button or by text and post up what he says here.

I've a better idea. Since you're so keen to sell your product, why don't you ask Eddie Jordan (politely) to give the Amsoil faithful a video-taped interview about how Amsoil changed his F1 fortunes? Sound fair? I'm sure that the folks in Superior Wisconsin would love the publicity - especially as they've no doubt never heard of him, at least... publicly

[crazydriver81]

Guys, calm down a bit. :) In the end, as Chris said, it depends on your mind and your money you like to spend, if you use standard or uprated things. Think of BOV's. Your car will work with the standard one but there are some people who like the sound of an aftermarket one, so they spend the money for it.

As I am working in the sales and marketing dept of a company, I honestly can say, that everything published has to do with marketing. Especially such videos shall target to support sales, not to convince everyone on this planet. And bear in mind that even "independent" laboratories are mostly not able to provide 100% comparable results. People work there and people judge, so there is never a 100% equal decision.

In the end it is marketing to convince people to buy this or that stuff and such videos are a method to help sales. Not more.

Ryan, I fully see your point, when I think of those american sales shows, presenting car stuff. And I do like the idea, to present critical voices to keep everybodys mind working but I think this has gone a bit to a personal thing already? Just a heads up to keep the things here on an objective basis! :thumbsup:

[Ryan]

Nothing personal here at all. I simply take exception to this product continually being touted as some sort of automotive messiah.

[MarkSanne]

Well in that case: I am a believer! ;)

[Nick Mann]

I don't quite understand your logic on this one Ryan. Are you saying that people who like a product shouldn't tell people they like it? I still enjoy constructive debate, but your last post somes accross as sour grapes rather than well reasoned argument.

The point arising from the sentences above is that maybe peoples perception and opinion is not always able to be logically argued, leaving threads like this going in circles. Frustration rules!

I have put several different oils in VR4 gearboxes and Amsoil always seems to make the gearbox as good as it is going to be. That ill-defined perception/opinion means I like the product and I pay the premium for my own car. I wish I could argue my opinion as scientific and logical points, but I can't!

[Kenneth]

Most people who tout Amsoil in the club do so after personal experience where the product has performed very very well.

In my personal experience, our Legnum went 25,000km over 3 years without an oil change. Subsequent testing (independent) showed that the oil was still fine for use.

With 5,000km (or 6 months, whatever comes first) oil change intervals being often said as the safe oil change interval for turbo charged vehicles, I personally feel this is very good value for money and so continue to use the product.

The problem I have with rants about "the touting of Amsoil by club members" is the demand for proof. There are numerous threads where members have had experiences which demonstrate that Amsoil is, at least, performs better in our vehicles than many of its competitors. Is this not proof? It appears to be about as much proof as you get for ANY oil.

If someone can show me another oil where they have done 25,000km or more and then with independent testing, shown the oil to still be OK then I'll be happy to switch to that oil (providing it is cheaper than Amsoil). Until then, while people change their oil every 5,000km or so, ill just sit back and leave the oil in the Legnum a couple more years and then think about changing it. :P

[Ryan]

I think that I've made my points abundantly clear. In summary, whilst the product itself may be okay (and I say okay because in my own experience I've found the products to be just that), the claims made are unverified - especially when name dropping former F1 bosses / teams.

Kenneth - how many samples of that oil did you send in? Having sent in my own ATF for analysis (and the results are on this site somewhere) they did say that they needed a minimum of three samples. Admittedly, I did not send in the remaing two samples and my results were probably skewed by not changing the filter at the time.

Are your test results able to be viewed? I'd be interested to see them.

As for members claiming that Amsoil performs better, based on their own experience, well that is what it is - claims, not really conclusive proof.

[Subaru ETA]

Just for my 2 cents. I haven't used amsoil ATF so can't comment.

I have used the gearbox and engine oils (can't remember which ones, what ever was recommended here)

I found the gearbox was notchy with it in, so I went back to castrol VMX. I'm not the only one who found this.

As for the engine oil - it didn't last 5k before I got tappet noise, so I went back to using castrol.

End of the day, your money, your choice. But as I have said before - for the hassle of getting amsoil in NZ, it just wasn't worth it for me

[Kenneth]

Sure, I posted the results on a thread here somewhere. There is actually a screen shot of the test results. (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?42643-Attention-Don-(Amsoil)-I-have-some-oil-lab-results!&highlight=oil+test+results)

What do you define as performance in terms of Oil? I guess if you need proof of something, it helps to know what your definition is.

[Nick Mann]

As for members claiming that Amsoil performs better, based on their own experience, well that is what it is - claims, not really conclusive proof.

Agreed. But what else do we have to go on? No one I know of has the time, energy or money to run half a dozen identical VR4's in exactly the same way for 45,000 miles (or more! - just going on Mitsy UK service intervals) and then send the oils to a variety of labs and have someone strip down and inspect all the gearboxes.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, the hassle is a pain. The reason I don't use Amsoil in my Galant is for that reason alone (I have to drop the oil reasonably often for various reasons :P)

I couldn't get the gearbox oil which was recommended here... The "next best thing" was OK but can be hard to get into 1st when very cold.
I used VMX in my recent gearbox rebuild (a different Evo gearset) and it was absolute crap. I couldn't shift without crunching the syncros unless gear speed matching. The fix was GL5 synthetic produced by Nulon :P In saying that, the previous gear set worked absolutely fine with VMX. Go figure that one!

As for lifter tick... I don't believe this is a good indicator of oil quality. At least not without prolonged use of that oil. To me, lifter tick is more likely a product of previous oils so I don't count it really as performance criteria (I would if I put new lifters in)

At one stage, weren't you doing oil changes at work for free? That has to beat just about any oil price/longevity arguments hands down :)


Just for my 2 cents. I haven't used amsoil ATF so can't comment.

I have used the gearbox and engine oils (can't remember which ones, what ever was recommended here)

I found the gearbox was notchy with it in, so I went back to castrol VMX. I'm not the only one who found this.

As for the engine oil - it didn't last 5k before I got tappet noise, so I went back to using castrol.

End of the day, your money, your choice. But as I have said before - for the hassle of getting amsoil in NZ, it just wasn't worth it for me

[Ryan]

Sure, I posted the results on a thread here somewhere. There is actually a screen shot of the test results. (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?42643-Attention-Don-(Amsoil)-I-have-some-oil-lab-results!&highlight=oil+test+results)

What do you define as performance in terms of Oil? I guess if you need proof of something, it helps to know what your definition is.

What you posted is, in my opnion, proof. Data collected and scientifically analysed by an impartial party can, in my view, be presented as fact - not just "my mate uses X and it's awesome". I will be the first to admit that the results themselves are impressive and that I've perhaps been too virulent in my anti-Amsoil view and for that I apologise - to Don especially.

That said however, I can see no reason why similar results could not be achieved using a mainstream synthetic oil, thus negating the claims that Amsoil's products are more superior than they claim to be. In this regard I shall send away my engine oil and filter (8000km old) to be tested. If the results are appalling then I will accept that Amsoil's products perhaps really are ahead of their competitors.

[Kenneth]

Take a sample Ryan and send that. If the results are good, just leave the oil in for another 5,000km or some such. If I recall correctly, the sample kits are a bit cheaper than full oil change anyway.

In the sample I had done, they suggested leaving it another 10,000km before re-sampling! I felt a but disappointed that I had dropped it out after that :(

[Ryan]

I seem to remember them requiring the filter as well - or perhaps that was just the ATF? Either way, a sample will be sent :)

[Kenneth]

I didn't send in a filter so there are probable more than one type of test you can have done. I might get a test kit also and get the current stuff in the Legnum tested.

Could be an interesting comparison.

[Ryan]

I've just phoned the good folks at Goughs (http://www.goughscat.co.nz/home) to make sure that they're still operating and can confirm that they're still trucking :)

For those folks who are interested - the above linked company sells test kits for oil analysis.

[Nick Mann]

Now this I like! Good luck Ryan - lets see how good other oils are too. And fair play for putting your hand in your pocket in the name of research.

/yes

[amsoil]

Well what on earth has happened to my nice polite informative and generally all around pleasant Club VR4?
I come on the site perhaps every 10 days (and its the only site, although I do check the Volvo site perhaps once in a blue moon) just to see if there are any queries I should answer; I never came here to push goods, but just because i was asked to and because I had a product that saved the auto boxes; it still does. I really thought that some members might like the vid, albeit its an American sales one. I thought it was good viewing, so have a check on the 1st post, am I pushing engine oils, I can if you like but i wasn't.
To Ryan, chill out mate, I have no interest in sell you anything, although I did spend time and effort a long time ago sorting out a club discount in the NZ for Amsoil products with whoever the importers over there are. My pockets are bulging because of this I am sure.
So sorry my poor English and grammatical construction offends, never had complaints before, but I prefer to be working on racing cars than tapping at keyboards. Get the feeling that anything I put down here will offend some people!

[chris g]

We do seem to have a bit of UK/NZ divide over this, unfortunate but hope it will not affect things here at CVR4...

I do not think that UK owners and members have thought that Don has been pushing products and our faith in benefits of AMSOIL, particularly ATF continues

However, NZ owners seem to have a harder time getting the stuff and also have a different view of it's benefits...

Perhaps we can settle on just making our own choices and living with that...

[crazydriver81]

Perhaps we can settle on just making our own choices and living with that...

:iagree:

[Subaru ETA]

Well what on earth has happened to my nice polite informative and generally all around pleasant Club VR4?
I come on the site perhaps every 10 days (and its the only site, although I do check the Volvo site perhaps once in a blue moon) just to see if there are any queries I should answer; I never came here to push goods, but just because i was asked to and because I had a product that saved the auto boxes; it still does. I really thought that some members might like the vid, albeit its an American sales one. I thought it was good viewing, so have a check on the 1st post, am I pushing engine oils, I can if you like but i wasn't.
To Ryan, chill out mate, I have no interest in sell you anything, although I did spend time and effort a long time ago sorting out a club discount in the NZ for Amsoil products with whoever the importers over there are. My pockets are bulging because of this I am sure.
So sorry my poor English and grammatical construction offends, never had complaints before, but I prefer to be working on racing cars than tapping at keyboards. Get the feeling that anything I put down here will offend some people!

There is only 1 importer here in NZ. I would say that the person you did the deal with was the old importer here in Auckland. Now the importer is in Christchurch, which isn't exactly convenient because most of the members here are in the north island.
If you are like me who will wake up one morning and decide to do oil changes on all your cars randomly, it's a bit of a ball ache to get it!

[horndog]

Well what on earth has happened to my nice polite informative and generally all around pleasant Club VR4?
Everyone must be getting ready to riot


I really thought that some members might like the vid, albeit its an American sales one. I thought it was good viewing,
I did think the "one armed bandit" below was a more interesting watch as well.



. Get the feeling that anything I put down here will offend some people!
Cant please all the people all the time.



I'm not a follow the group Fanboy (or at least I dont think I am :) - I'm not convinced on K&N filters for one... ) but from the Anecdotal evidence from club members I am going to continue with the Amsoil, - Helped by the fact I got loads packaged with the car..

[elnevio]

I've said it before, but Don is the most impartial salesman I know! :deal2:


In response to the original post though - yes, I did enjoy the video! /yes

[Ryan]

I would like to apologise unreservedly to Don for being a knobhead in my previous posts. I don't know you and I am sorry that some of my comments have been interpreted as being a personal attack, it was never my intention to do so.

[Mark 4]

Well done Ryan.

[amsoil]

Accepted.
Thank you.

[Scanny]

its your car so its your choice what you put in it. whether its just searching the net or carrying out lab tests, only you can decide which products you buy. how many people relied on personal opinions before buying a VR4?

to his credit, Don seems to actually believe in the product he is selling and that is rare for anyone who sells something. usually they just want to shift the product and will say any old rubbish to get your money. that does not seem to apply which adds credibility to the product when you have faith in the seller

[Atik]

The video was quite cool, very 'Americanised' with the story too :)

Must admit, I've only put Amsoil in my VR4, not really out of preference or anything, but just from the high praise it gets on these forums. My car was Amsoiled when I bought it, so I just continued.

My auto box crunched itself to death only a couple of months after a full Amsoil ATF service, but I havent attributed that fault to anything but simply a mechanical fault in the 'box. My current engine is LOUD and has some ridiculous tappet noise, but even with Amsoil in there for over a year, its made the same sound. The oil is clean and still has a nice clean colour after 10k miles. The oil isnt a miracle cure for things like tappets or gear changes, it's simply a good oil that does its job well. Other oils do well too, and everyone has the choice to use whatever they want.

I am currently sourcing a service kit for my car, and looked at other well respected oils (Millers, Silkolene etc) as they are a little cheaper. Out of chance I have managed to sort out Amsoil oils so that will be going in again. I have no reason to choose Amsoil, but it's there so I'll use it.

So, a pointless post, but my tuppence.

And Ryan, thats a very honourable action mate. I didnt think you had targeted Don personally, but fair play and respect for the apology.

[WildCards]

...knobhead...

That is a grossly underused word in my opinion, moreso from people outside of the UK. I thank you for using it, it has brought a smile to my face.






Your apology was alright too I suppose :P

[amsoil]

Belief is.....
Realising you have holed your rad after 40 minutes of a 1 hour race and not pulling over, still gunning it with one eye painfully watching the oil gauge rise when the water is already on the stops, still gunning it when the oil temp gauge also hits the stops and a further 10 minutes of gunning it to get on the podium at Nurburgring with the tacho then also on the stops at 10K when the redline was 8.5K
I will admit to cutting the steaming £50K engine when I slowed to come down the pit lane and to some concern (misplaced) when we finally watered and started her up again 6 hours later.....
Bearings were fine I checked later, Oil looked fine but was changed as a matter of course (as I didn't wish to push my luck lol) but was actually found to be fine on analysis!
Belief, yes; would I use anything else, yeh right.

[WOODY72]

What & when did you race Don?

[Nick Mann]

OOooh, ooohh, I sense some Jag stories coming up! /yes

[WOODY72]

What's a jag Nick? Before my time i'm sure. :whistle:

[amsoil]

I'll make it painless for those who might get bored.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=612403331

Play the vid link (2nd one down 'it could be you' on full screen)
The girl is an Inuit and Greenland downhill slalom skiier.
The deep scars on her face where from poles she missed knocking away from skiing without a helmet!
Oh and in the pics it really is HRH who drove my car Saturday and I won the Aarhus GP on the Sunday!
enjoy


it may not be a VR4 , but.......

[amsoil]

If I had engaged my brain I would have realised I need to 'allow' people to see whats on my facebook page ops....

try this one http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2112975112518

[WOODY72]

Sorry Don, dont do facetwatbook!