The all-new Site Sponsor system, and the removal of the trader system

[elnevio]

INTRODUCTION & BACKGROUND

It has become increasingly apparent in recent times that the current trader system is not really well-suited to Club VR-4.

The amount of time dealing with just one trading issue can be extensive, and this is not a worthwhile use of the Committee's time. It is a simple fact that the amount of time spent by Committee members in dealing with such issue MUST be reduced, or virtually eliminated.

However, it is recognised that a having a system in place that allows anyone to have greater prominence on the site should they wish to do so, is, in the main, generally a positive for the club and its members.

With all this in mind, it has been agreed that as of the 1st of January 2012, the trader system as we know it will be withdrawn.

In its place, but now available to anyone, will be the Site Sponsor system.


WHAT WILL BE OFFERED?

Anyone who is a Site Sponsor will have their name in green with the title Site Sponsor. They will, should they wish to do so, have their own forum and/or an advertising banner on the site.


WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS TO BE A SITE SPONSOR?

Anyone can be a site sponsor. It may be that you wish to give a little bit more to show your support to the Club, which will be used towards the ongoing running costs of the Club and the website. The system is of course still anticipated to be of benefit to those entities wishing to improve their visibility on the site.


HOW MUCH WILL IT COST TO BE A SITE SPONSOR?

To be a Site Sponsor, there will be an annual cost of £50.


WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH CURRENT TRADERS?

I will shortly be consulting with all existing Gold and Silver Traders as to how they wish to move forwards with the Club.

Any existing Gold and Silver Trader will be entitled to a refund. This will be the default position if a trader does not indicate their wishes by 1 January, as the trader system will be withdrawn regardless.

However, they will also be offered, in lieu of the refund, the option to become a Site Sponsor, for one or two years, depending on whether they are an existing Silver Trader or Gold Trader. This is the option that we are hopeful will be the most popular.

Any Bronze Traders will be returned to normal Blue paid-up members.

Any Group Buy Organisers will be returned to normal Blue paid-up members.


WILL THIS BE APPLIED RETROSPECTIVELY?

No, it will only be applicable from 1 January 2012.


WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH GROUP BUYS NOW?

The Group Buy template will still be required to be used, but there will be no requirement for the Club to 'approve' group buys or group buy organisers.


WILL THE CLUB GET INVOLVED WITH ANY TRADER ISSUES?

As an overriding general rule, no. While the Club may have facilitated a sale (by use of the forum), it is not involved, and any transaction is only between the parties on either side of the transaction. The stance will be, quite simply, 'Buyer Beware'.

If someone is selling illegal or contentious items, then they will be removed.

The requirement to be a user with more than a few posts and several months on the site, or a paid-up member, will still be in place in order to sell items on the site.


WOW, YOU GUYS DESERVE A MEDAL!

Aw, shucks! :smitten:

We are really just hopeful that this will be the end of a system that was at times detrimental to the Club, although it should be noted that this was only ever due to a small minority. We wish to foster and nurture what is best about this Club - the continually-proven ethos of simply being very friendly and helping others out, often above and beyond the call of duty.

Long live Club VR-4! :)

[Nick Mann]

Sounds good. My alter ego as a Silver Trader will continue as a site sponsor. :D

[Colin Wiltshire]

All sounds good, hope fully will run smoothly.

[adaxo]

Well done


/applaude

[horndog]

Hope it allows you mods to enjoy the club more.

[Davezj]

Sounds like a good way of doing it.
Well done all involved.

You will however need to ensure everybody in the club reads this "change of operating proceedure" and realises that the club will take a back seat in any buy/selling/trading disputes on the forum.
Not everybody is going to read this thread.
I am not sure how you would do this, but one of you wonderful people in the know will probably have this covered by now anyway.

[VR4Kaos]

sounds good would it be possable for you use my trader application form info on the sponser application form if there is one

[TAR]

well done guys and gal.

:happy:

[Gowf]

I concur with the sentiments above, the trader system had devolved into a completely counter-productive farce. Fair play guys, and well done.

[adaxo]

Its JUST A QUESTION, if mods can implement SOME of this rules below, just to made things easier, safer and for good of all (sellers and buyers) is the new T&C??

Negotiation

All discussions including offers, acceptances and refusals should be shown clearly in the thread (not by email or PM). Once a deal is agreed you may use whatever form of external communication you like to finalise payment details etc. Your general location and details of equipment are not considered to be valid reasons for using off thread communications. We insist on this rule because we need to see all the negotiations to be able to mediate a solution to a dispute.
You cannot make a higher offer to gazump after a deal has been agreed.
You should only make an offer for an item when you have the funds to pay for it. The seller may agree to wait for payment but this should be discussed in the thread with the seller and they are entitled to refuse.
If a vendor reduces the price for a potential purchaser, that price becomes the new asking price for all. However, the item is reserved for that potential purchaser for 1 hour to accept that offer before others can buy it at the new price. (This is known as 'the one hour rule'.)
The first unconditional offer of the asking price secures the sale unless it's stated otherwise in the listing (e.g. Bulk or Trade Preferred) The vendor cannot accept an offer higher than the asking price.
Do not edit your posts to secure a deal (e.g. altering your offer price upward to beat a rival buyer). All post edits are recorded so any attempted deception will be found and dealt with severely.
Vendors may choose who they deal with if they have had a particularly negative or positive experience with a member. You must contact a moderator if you wish to apply this rule.
Once a deal has been agreed or an unconditional asking price offer made, you may not withdraw from it without a very good reason. You will need to PM a moderator with an explanation but the moderators still reserve the right to impose a short trading ban.
You may only bump your thread 10 hours after the last post.
You may only post normal trading dialogue in classified threads.
You may reply within a trading thread ONLY if you are interested in participating in the trade or are providing a valid price comparison as per the next rule.
To ensure the seller is asking a fair price you may post information on where it is available new and in stock, direct from a retailer or a link to a similar trade here. Auction sites & 3rd party marketplaces are prohibited. Some examples of sources prohibited are: eBay, PlayTrade, CeX & Amazon Marketplace. Additionally, you cannot use multibuy offers to calculate individual prices for comparisons. You don't have to include a link to that site provided it's easy to find the evidence. We advise that you provide a VALID link to the website showing the goods for sale.

Wanted Threads

These work differently to For Sale adverts. These are the sole property of the original poster and items offered are for them only. Others may make an offer, such as if member x doesn't want this, I'll take it for the asking price, but the original poster always has first refusal on the item. The one hour rule does not apply on a Wanted advert. The seller offering the item may of course have their own For Sale thread with the same item available. Should an item have offers on both threads, then forum timings will be used to decide priority.

[Nutter_John]

Adam although we fully understand that people can be messed around when buying or seeling things via the PM system and it can leave a bitter taste we are unable to become involved in transactions . The whole point of us changing the current system is remove the admin over head from the committee and allow us to focus on the development of the club , this year we have spent 80% of our time dealing with issues related to things that really should not been taking our time .

[aboo]

Its JUST A QUESTION, if mods can implement SOME of this rules below, just to made things easier, safer and for good of all (sellers and buyers) is the new T&C??

Negotiation

All discussions including offers, acceptances and refusals should be shown clearly in the thread (not by email or PM). Once a deal is agreed you may use whatever form of external communication you like to finalise payment details etc. Your general location and details of equipment are not considered to be valid reasons for using off thread communications. We insist on this rule because we need to see all the negotiations to be able to mediate a solution to a dispute.
You cannot make a higher offer to gazump after a deal has been agreed.
You should only make an offer for an item when you have the funds to pay for it. The seller may agree to wait for payment but this should be discussed in the thread with the seller and they are entitled to refuse.
If a vendor reduces the price for a potential purchaser, that price becomes the new asking price for all. However, the item is reserved for that potential purchaser for 1 hour to accept that offer before others can buy it at the new price. (This is known as 'the one hour rule'.)
The first unconditional offer of the asking price secures the sale unless it's stated otherwise in the listing (e.g. Bulk or Trade Preferred) The vendor cannot accept an offer higher than the asking price.
Do not edit your posts to secure a deal (e.g. altering your offer price upward to beat a rival buyer). All post edits are recorded so any attempted deception will be found and dealt with severely.
Vendors may choose who they deal with if they have had a particularly negative or positive experience with a member. You must contact a moderator if you wish to apply this rule.
Once a deal has been agreed or an unconditional asking price offer made, you may not withdraw from it without a very good reason. You will need to PM a moderator with an explanation but the moderators still reserve the right to impose a short trading ban.
You may only bump your thread 10 hours after the last post.
You may only post normal trading dialogue in classified threads.
You may reply within a trading thread ONLY if you are interested in participating in the trade or are providing a valid price comparison as per the next rule.
To ensure the seller is asking a fair price you may post information on where it is available new and in stock, direct from a retailer or a link to a similar trade here. Auction sites & 3rd party marketplaces are prohibited. Some examples of sources prohibited are: eBay, PlayTrade, CeX & Amazon Marketplace. Additionally, you cannot use multibuy offers to calculate individual prices for comparisons. You don't have to include a link to that site provided it's easy to find the evidence. We advise that you provide a VALID link to the website showing the goods for sale.

Wanted Threads

These work differently to For Sale adverts. These are the sole property of the original poster and items offered are for them only. Others may make an offer, such as if member x doesn't want this, I'll take it for the asking price, but the original poster always has first refusal on the item. The one hour rule does not apply on a Wanted advert. The seller offering the item may of course have their own For Sale thread with the same item available. Should an item have offers on both threads, then forum timings will be used to decide priority.Your missing the point here Adam. This is being put in place to make life simpler for everyone. Its buyer beware & if your putting up a FS thread then you can add some of the T&C you have posted. Members can run the FS thread any way they like it to run.

[adaxo]

I'm OK with things as it is, It was ONLY a suggestion to copy SOME of this T&C, this T&C is from other forum which allow ppl to buy/sell stuff and is just very clearly stated what was sold what is still available ect.etc, so no misunderstanding or complication involve. I'm happy that CVR4 is out if any issues happen, and that new GB rules is just great./GJ

[2700gavin]

Well done. I think this new system will benefit everyone. Well done committee.

[MarkSanne]

This looks like a good system, well done all you!

[John TheAntique]

This is so much better.

[The Vee]

Does seem a far more practical approach.

[peter thomson]

Concur with all of the above :)

[foxdie]

Any Bronze Traders will be returned to normal Blue paid-up members.

I just spent the last half an hour writing a small essay about how, as the only Bronze Trader, this has basically swept my needs under the carpet. But after thinking about it, I don't want to be seen as a neg-head standing in the way of progress so I'll support the decision too.

That said, I need to check something, am I right in presuming that £50/year will also cover full club membership fees and the ability to pro-actively advertise services that we provide? As a Bronze Trader I realise that I'm not allowed to directly say to people "I can offer this service" in their threads.

[Nutter_John]

am I right in presuming that £50/year will also cover full club membership fees and the ability to pro-actively advertise services that we provide?

The Site Sponser gives you the same access as the full member but with rights to a banner and sub forum

Everyone has the aibillity to offer thier services to other members - but there is ZERO come back to the club if the transaction goes wrong

[foxdie]

Understandable and thanks for confirming :)

[elnevio]

The Site Sponsor status allows you to contribute something extra to the club, have your own forum and have an advertising banner. The cost will include full membership.

Unless something is agreed to the contrary by the time the new rules go live in January, then in essence, anyone can sell items/services on the site, although there may be limits to the number of posts/threads allowed for registered users.

As former Bronze traders will have not paid anything extra in the first place, then under the new system, there is essentially no change, except that Committee permission is NOT required to ply their wares.

EDIT: Started this ages ago, got distracted, only just pressed submit... oh well!

[VR457]

Well done, that is a great idea.

Can there be a trader rating and feedback section, like Amazon, so users can make up their own minds whether to use their services?

[elnevio]

A trader feedback system was considered and quickly dismissed. Remember, we need to REDUCE Committee admin time overheads! /yes

[VR4Kaos]

sounds good would it be possable for you use my trader application form info on the sponser application form if there is one

bump

[BraindG]

New system is active, I will shortly post up a thread outlining how to become a cvr4 sponsor, any questions regarding the new T&Cs should be posted here, if you feel like your thoughts are not suitable on the open forum please consider contacting the committee via the contact us form, link located at the bottom of the forum.

[BraindG]

p.s. opera users, please use another browser to accept the T&C's, i've still not resolved that issue /Facepalm - Sorry.

[Gly]

funny you say that, i use opera at work, older version and accepting terms page worked just fine.

[VR4Kaos]

New system is active, I will shortly post up a thread outlining how to become a cvr4 sponsor, any questions regarding the new T&Cs should be posted here, if you feel like your thoughts are not suitable on the open forum please consider contacting the committee via the contact us form, link located at the bottom of the forum.

cheers buddie

[amsoil]

Unlike other Club Forums Club VR4 has always been a polite and friendly club offering above all advice and support for its members. It has never been a vehicle for the hard sell and I have never noticed anyone pestering members with goods or services, nor would I wish to, not that kind of 'Club'. As such it has always been in line with my way of doing business ie advice when asked for and not to push at all.
So Yes the correct and above all right decision for the club and those running it. It is after all run as a club for the benefit of the members, not as a business intent on producing income stream.
I wish you all well in your endeavours.

[crazydriver81]

good approach committee. I do like the new system.

btw, how do I become a sponsor? I am due for a membership renewal in March, IIRC.

[BraindG]

good approach committee. I do like the new system.

btw, how do I become a sponsor? I am due for a membership renewal in March, IIRC.

Sorry, this task is with me! - I'ver been a bit side tracked recently. I hope to soon have a thread up - if anyone likes to become a sponsor please PM me and ill provide some details.