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View Full Version : Lower control arms - regular replacement needed?



VR457
21-12-2011, 09:37 AM
Just saw this thread on the OZ forum: http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?10806-This-is-what-happens-if-you-don-t-replace-your-control-arms..

What are members experience of this? How often do we need to replace these items?

Nick Mann
21-12-2011, 10:51 AM
I haven't read the link, so apologies if I miss the point here, but I haven't heard of genuine parts failing catastrophically. Therefore if running genuine parts I would only change them once the ball joint/bushes are wearing.

TAR
21-12-2011, 01:31 PM
There was much discussion about non genuine arms on here some time back. There were some worrying failures on arms supplied by Camskill. They have now STOPPED suppling non genuine, so they are fine to use.

Mitsubishi had a recall on these arms and if you haven't had them done, the Colt Car Company (Mitsubishi in the UK) will arrange for this free of charge.

Any failure of the lower control arm ball joint will result in major damage to the front of your car.

The latest part numbers for Mitsubishi OEM (recall) arms are:

Recall Front Left: MR972465
Recall Front Right: MR972466

Mitsi ASA part numbers:
Front Left - MR296295
Front Right - MR296296


Both Nutter John and myself have seen cars with the non genuine arms fitted and they are not a good fit - they do not sit very well in the subframe mountings. I believe that this is due to the bushing not being correctly aligned. as a consequence of this, I think that more stress is placed on the ball joints which can lead to premature failure.

I have attached some pictures to show genuine arms and the offset of the bushing.

5025150252
5025050253
50254

:happy:

ex-derv
21-12-2011, 01:56 PM
Both Nutter John and myself have seen cars with the non genuine arms fitted and they are not a good fit - they do not sit very well in the subframe mountings. I believe that this is due to the bushing not being correctly aligned. as a consequence of this, I think that more stress is placed on the ball joints which can lead to premature failure.



:happy:

mine were some of the said pattern, as seen by John,, crappy arms and they lasted about 28 000 miles before being in a shocking state. Having had them changed now the difference in the handling is significant.

foxdie
21-12-2011, 01:59 PM
Interesting, the ones listed on Camskill (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m22b17s1403p7603/_MITSUBISHI_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_SERVICING_PARTS_TUNIN G_SPARES_and_SERVICE_ACCESSORIES_-_Front_Bottom_Arm_-_Lateral_Arm_-_Legnum_VR4_EC5W_and_EC5A) have different part numbers, does that mean they're selling pre-recall arms?

aboo
21-12-2011, 04:03 PM
I haven't read the link, so apologies if I miss the point here, but I haven't heard of genuine parts failing catastrophically. Therefore if running genuine parts I would only change them once the ball joint/bushes are wearing.
Post 13 on the link Nick he says they weren't genuine ones. They were of ebay.

funkstardelux
21-12-2011, 05:41 PM
Interesting, the ones listed on Camskill (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m22b17s1403p7603/_MITSUBISHI_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_SERVICING_PARTS_TUNIN G_SPARES_and_SERVICE_ACCESSORIES_-_Front_Bottom_Arm_-_Lateral_Arm_-_Legnum_VR4_EC5W_and_EC5A) have different part numbers, does that mean they're selling pre-recall arms?

i contacted mitso parts the part numbers are different only due to internal use of their system exactly same arms

TAR
21-12-2011, 05:49 PM
Interesting, the ones listed on Camskill (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m22b17s1403p7603/_MITSUBISHI_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_SERVICING_PARTS_TUNIN G_SPARES_and_SERVICE_ACCESSORIES_-_Front_Bottom_Arm_-_Lateral_Arm_-_Legnum_VR4_EC5W_and_EC5A) have different part numbers, does that mean they're selling pre-recall arms?

i have just checked with Mitsubishi and the part numbers quoted on the Camskill site are correct and will be the ones offered if you ask Mitsi for some. The part numbers I have listed are the ones assigned to the arms produced to be used for the recall work. I and the guy I spoke to at Mitsi have no idea why they would have a different part number except if it was an administration thing. It does appear that they have very large quantities of stock of the recall arms.

I've updated my origional post to quote both sets of part numbers; any of which are suitable replacements for any VR4 lower lateral arm.

:happy:

sampsulo
10-01-2012, 08:38 AM
these arms are expensive my goodness...are they interchangable with the eclipse one?

VR457
10-01-2012, 06:25 PM
Guess who's failed recently?

Yep, it was mine.

Car sat on drive with one wheel needing replacement and a slightly bent wing.

Could have been worse, it skidded to a stop from 50mph with front wheel at an angle.

TAR
10-01-2012, 09:52 PM
Sorry to hear this Jamil. Its seems like you doomed yourself by starting this thread.

:happy:

wintertidenz
10-01-2012, 09:55 PM
Has anyone ever tried pulling the bottom of the arm out where the joint sits? Looks like this is the last thing to go in, so it may be possible to rebuild the joints or put in a grease nipple for regular maintenance.

I would treat the lower arms as a regular service item - I'm currently using non-genuine lower arms but they are holding up well after 25,000kms. If they do start to fail then I will replace them with Mitsi ones - it isn't really just a replace and forget item, considering the amount of stress that are placed on these joints.

And that's a pretty scary speed for the joints to fail - just out of curiosity, have you lowered the car or changed any suspension items? Lowering the car seems to put more stress on these parts.

VR457
11-01-2012, 12:43 AM
My car seemed to have the recall done and its just pased 100k miles so perhaps it should be a service item def at this mileage.

No suspension changes were done at the front. The mounts were changed to polybush, the four main ones and rear dampers were changed recently. Their was clunking noises but only one or two for the first mile or so in the last two weeks. I just thought it was rear shock spring settling in, stupid i know. In fact when the ball joint went, i thought the problem was in the rear.

The good thing was it was on the way back from handing in my assignments that i had been screwing over for at least six months and two extensions...:party2:

orionn2o
11-01-2012, 09:19 AM
Guess who's failed recently?

Yep, it was mine.

Car sat on drive with one wheel needing replacement and a slightly bent wing.

Could have been worse, it skidded to a stop from 50mph with front wheel at an angle.

Sorry to hear that bud. I had exactly the same thing happen to me twice! After the damage it caused it really slowed down my spending on the VR4 !

VR457
11-01-2012, 12:30 PM
Sorry to hear that bud. I had exactly the same thing happen to me twice! After the damage it caused it really slowed down my spending on the VR4 !

It must have slowed it right down - you have an Evo now!

elnevio
11-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Wow, that is by far the quickest speed I am aware of a failure occurring at. Glad you're okay, and that there doesn't seem to be much more that the 'usual' damage associated with this type of failure caused .

orionn2o
11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
It must have slowed it right down - you have an Evo now!

Ha yes slowed to the point that I opted for another toy. I was fed up trying to make my car handle and be as fast as an evo. Then got offered and evo! Still loved the VR4 though. Maybe another one one day!

VR457
11-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Must try out an Evo one day, you're right, we are always trying to make our cars handle like its on rails.

Nev, you mentioned that the failure happens when going round bends but this happened in a straight line. I was approaching A38 / A446 on the dual carriageway when it happened. Left a 200 metre skid mark. Will take photo to show the effect on the wheel rubber.

A few miles before i would have been doing 80-90 mph easily.:stars:

wintertidenz
11-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Did you hit any rough road before it happened? It's possible that you hit a pothole or something similar in the road which caused it to snap.

Either that or it was already snapped, and just sitting on top of the ball joint ready to move.

VR457
12-01-2012, 12:51 AM
No pot holes. It must have died some time after the engine / gearbox box mounts got done, on the basis of the weakest link. And i had just been getting lined up for replacing the front dampers. Mind, from what is written there seems to be no way of forecasting failure short of direct testing of the part.

Nick Mann
12-01-2012, 09:48 AM
On Mitsy items you often get a groaning noise with steering at low speed. I'm not sure if that is true of the aftermarket stuff. The only way I have found to *try* and gauge the condition of the ball joint on that arm is to remove the ball joint from the hub carrier and then feel the looseness of the ball in it's socket. Even then telling anyone how long it will last is a mugs game - but it should give an indication of excellent, horrendous or something inbetween.

The cause/effect of the engine mounts must be a minimal one, at best I would have thought? The engine will be strapped better to the chassis, which should reduce the extra shock through the chassis of the engine moving on it's mounts under extreme conditions.

orionn2o
12-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Mine went over a pothole the second time, the first time was round a corner. I imagine it probably doesn't matter tho. Its a horrible feeling as you grind to a halt with half the road scraping underneath your car!

VR457
12-01-2012, 09:13 PM
Perhaps the reason is no other than high mileage so these should be replaced at least every 100k miles. Lucky the wheel took the force rather than the underside.

Still waiting for photo for no other reason than being really ill today and not able to crawl out.

VR457
14-01-2012, 09:17 PM
What do you think?


50603506045060550606

adaxo
15-01-2012, 12:28 PM
My car seemed to have the recall done and its just pased 100k miles so perhaps it should be a service item def at this mileage.


I need to ask, is the car definitely had arms changed via recall or just checked?? or just dust cover replaced??.

VR457
15-01-2012, 03:31 PM
I have sent a check of to Mitsy UK. I did have it checked on one the threads a year and a bit ago and it said all the recalls had been carried out.

VR457
29-01-2012, 05:07 AM
Well, as it turned out, the arm that failed was most likely not OE. I had checked the recall status with Mitsy UK and they confirmed that all the work had been carried out, from 2002 - 2003. The car was imported into the UK in 2007, i got my hands on it 2009. So where did it go wrong????

Here are some pics for you to 'spot the difference', first with an original arm and second with the arm taken from the nearside which was fine.

50845 50853 5085250851 50850 5084950848 50847 50846 50854

Another thank you to Mr Mann for taking the time out to come up and work in freezing conditions.

Nick Mann
29-01-2012, 10:16 AM
As Jamil said, the failed item had several differences when compared to the known mitsy item. The dust cover over the ball joint has 8 indentations in the groove on the top face on the mitsy arm, but only 6 on the failed arm. On the beam of the arm is a raised point that had been much more machined on the failed arm. The width of the beam is bigger on the failed arm at the subframe mounting end.

The failure looks to a semi trained eye like a fatigue crack (the dark area on the fracture surface) probably allowed to initiate due to corrosion following water ingress to the joint. The shiny bit on the fracture surface is the bit that has failed recently. I seem to remember PSB putting a grease nipple on his arms a few years ago so he could regularly grease the joint. In my humble opinion that is something that could save this from happening - regular grease insertion from the bottom should expel water up and away from the joint and prevent the initial corrosion. I obviously don't know if this is the way aftermarket arms fail everytime, so it is difficult to say anything with absolute certainty!

horndog
01-02-2012, 03:29 PM
Just a question on replacing the lower arms, - whilst doing the job is there anything else thats makes sense to replace at the same time?

Nick Mann
01-02-2012, 03:32 PM
Not really. Have a good check of the CV boots and steering rack/tie rod boots - they are easier to do with stuff out of the way. Check for any other ball joints down there with play in them. Nothing down there is a "change every x miles" it's just a case of replacing torn/worn stuff.

Humpty's Revenge
01-02-2012, 03:33 PM
Just a question on replacing the lower arms, - whilst doing the job is there anything else thats makes sense to replace at the same time?

Anti roll bar bushes, drop links possibly?

Nick Mann
01-02-2012, 03:39 PM
Possibly, Steve, but not necessarily. And you don't need the bottom arm off to do those jobs... there are lots of things you could change, but it all comes down to the condition of the stuff under there as to what makes sense to change, and that would be potentially different on every car.

Humpty's Revenge
01-02-2012, 04:11 PM
Possibly, Steve, but not necessarily. And you don't need the bottom arm off to do those jobs... there are lots of things you could change, but it all comes down to the condition of the stuff under there as to what makes sense to change, and that would be potentially different on every car.

That be true Nick!

I did all mine when I changed my lateral arms as it was there simply because everything was off.

wintertidenz
05-02-2012, 05:24 AM
Nick - with the good and failed arms, is there a way to pull out the joint from the bottom and check the actual inside of the arm of where it sits?

Just wondering if it is possible to replace the joint itself with a much higher quality part.

Nick Mann
05-02-2012, 10:49 AM
Not that I am aware of. It's something I guess a few of us would buy if there was such a thing, but I think the investment to produce something of better quality than the Mitsy item would be prohibitive. On some cars (The GTO is one, I think?) you can change just the ball joint in that arm, but I haven't seen that option for the Galant. It might be possible to check the amount of rust forming at the top of the ball joint by seperating the joint and moving the rubber boot enough to see in? Obviously, the more rust the more chance of a crack initiating.

VR457
06-02-2012, 12:26 AM
Think that with the amount of money spent on suspension upgrade, cambelt changes and so on, changing the arms is quite cheap, certainly compared to the damage caused by it's failure. Checking to see if the arm is OE or non standard should be Number 1 in everyones book.

Don't rely on the cars recall status alone, get down and check. As posted, sometime after recall (or during recall?) a non-standard arm found it's way in there.