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SAF68
24-12-2011, 01:16 PM
Hi all , Pease have you got a link to buy cams gear for the 6a13TT?

Thank's a lot and Merry Chrismass

Saf

horndog
24-12-2011, 01:35 PM
One of the Oz guys has just been talking about them

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?61404-Works-Engineering-Cam-Gears

SAF68
24-12-2011, 09:39 PM
Thank you Sir

Saf

swinks
28-12-2011, 10:13 PM
You also can try those for 6a12 from fto's...
Here:
http://www.lelong.com.my/works-t7-cam-pulley-gear-perdana-v6-6a10-6a12-6a13-4-pcs-K898041-2007-01-Sale-I.htm
Here:
http://www.works-engineering.com/Product/cam%20pulley.html

SAF68
31-12-2011, 12:17 PM
Hey Tomazs , thank's , Cams gear are already ordered ! The first tune will be +1 for intake and -3 for exhaust , this tune give a good power for the 6G72 with stock cams.

Saf

Adam.Findlay
01-01-2012, 07:28 AM
^ did you buy the works engineering ones discussed in the links above? if so when you get them I would be intrested in seeing some pictures of how good the belt fits into the teeth and so on before I commit to getting a set for my 6A13

Spetz
01-01-2012, 09:50 AM
Seconded, pics and impressions would be appreciated :)

SAF68
01-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Seconded, pics and impressions would be appreciated :)

No problem , i'll post some pictures when i'll received the cams gear and the instalation , also i'll give you the best tune when the car will be on the dyno ... The 6G72 like +1 for intake and -3 for exhaust , it's the best tune to take the more power but i saw on my garage that other car are different , and if you put +1 for intake you'll lose vacuum and the final goal for the power will be not good ! Anyway i'll give you my result to take the maxim power and to have a nice drivevebility!

Saf

Ps: Hope that all are understand , because my english it's bad!

Spetz
02-01-2012, 09:39 AM
Your English is fine :)
Look forward to hearing the results

Adam.Findlay
22-01-2012, 10:21 AM
any luck with getting some pics yet SAF68?

Adam.Findlay
13-03-2012, 04:18 AM
Any update on this.
Just installed my cams so next valvetrain mod will be gears
cheers

swinks
14-03-2012, 07:12 PM
Seconded.
Just ordered mine set of cam verniers. And wonder what would be the best setting for 6A13TT.

Davezj
14-03-2012, 09:19 PM
it would be ineresting to see the advantage of the adjustable cam gears particularly on a tuned car like your tomazs

SAF68
16-03-2013, 02:55 AM
More overlap or/and to adjust the cams with degree wheel

Saf

Davezj
16-03-2013, 08:50 AM
In a very simplistic way of describing it, because I don't really understand this at the moment.

When you adjust the cam gears, do you actually gain anything, or do you move where the torque is created/brought in.
E.g. Move it from low down touque to much higher in the rev range, where the 6a13tt is lacking it.

SAF68
17-03-2013, 11:43 AM
When you adjust cams gear , you can create more overlap if you run on stock cams :

Overlap –

This is the number of degrees that the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time. A cam with timing of 25-65-65-25 has (25 + 25) = 50 degrees of overlap. Overlap is the most important parameter effecting idle and off idle quality. A large overlap causes a rough or lopey idle. Increasing the duration or decreasing the lobe separation cause an increase in overlap .

For all !! Don't buy a gams gear with 2° range /mark


DaveZJ , you'll understand with this link ;)

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Cam%20Gear%20Tuning.html

If you buy billet cams shaft , you'll need to buy cams gear to check the correct timing ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55kgprdD6t0

Saf

Davezj
17-03-2013, 01:29 PM
well that make interesting reading, upto the point when he says ignore all the stuff above for turbo engine it doesn't work like that for turbo engines.

well i suppose it makes sense to understand the reasons why the gear timing is used.
is the article saying you add some cam gear overlap on a turbo engine low down in the rev range to gain quicker spool and more mid range torque. but then you need to remove that overlap higher up the rev range.
it is the last bit i don't understand. how can you remove cam timing higher in the rev range when it is manual set via the cam gears.
is it saying you add the some cam gear overlap and then remove it with ECU timing high in the rev range, or is it saying something else. i am not sure.

Nick Mann
17-03-2013, 06:59 PM
You can get variable valve timing, but how it could be implemented on a 6A13tt I have no idea!

Davezj
17-03-2013, 10:45 PM
on a side note regarding variable cam timing,
i was surprised when i saw adam's VVTI accord on the rollers, the power curve was a normal looking thing then when it hits about 5500- 6000 rpm the power curve goes up at 35-40 degree angle like a switch, when the cam timing changes. it was very odd looking.

Oblivion
18-03-2013, 11:16 AM
When you adjust cams gear , you can create more overlap if you run on stock cams :


For all !! Don't buy a gams gear with 2° range /mark


Saf

Why is that a bad thing? The works Engineering ones have 2 deg markings I think.

SAF68
18-03-2013, 11:54 AM
Because it is a work of precision , 1° excessive or even half a degree and the result will not be the same .

This is 1° mark :


60801

This is 2° mark :

60802

Saf

swinks
18-03-2013, 11:54 AM
For all !! Don't buy a gams gear with 2° range /mark

And reasons...??

They work perfectly for me :dance:

Saf, not gonna be funny, but that statement is b**it

swinks
18-03-2013, 11:58 AM
Because it is a work of precision , 1° excessive or even half a degree and the result will not be the same .

This is 1° mark :


60801
This is 2° mark :

60802

Saf

Ha ha ha... you should go for some serious reason than that... :)

SAF68
18-03-2013, 12:39 PM
Hey tomasz ,

What is your setting?

Saf

swinks
18-03-2013, 04:29 PM
Hey tomasz ,

What is your setting?

Saf
So far dialed against crank etc. with engine out.
Seems that up to -3/3 degree there is safe margin to dial.
Now dyno booked after Easter for proper setup. Will try -1/1 for a good midrange and civilized idle, we will see... ;)

AKKO
14-05-2013, 09:59 AM
Ha ha ha... you should go for some serious reason than that... :)

Swinks,

Did you have issues with fitting the gears on the rear bank at all, they seem to foul in my case?

In theory I have the same gears you purchased, but the workshop is having issues fitting them.

swinks
14-05-2013, 10:11 AM
Swinks,

Did you have issues with fitting the gears on the rear bank at all, they seem to foul in my case?

In theory I have the same gears you purchased, but the workshop is having issues fitting them.

Yes, I think I've mentioned im my other thread.
So, rear bank, intake one. It's down to cam verniers are much thicker than stock one so internal sidewall of gear is fouling by 2 bolt mounts in engine head casing. I believe these 2 mounts are for genuine Mitsi cam gear locking tool. Anyway I did re-grind a bit these mounts, appros. 3-4mm each and now it's OK.

Also beware!
Front exhaust cam gear with timing rotor blade has TDC mark in wrong place!

AKKO
14-05-2013, 10:15 AM
Thanks that helps a lot !!

Have some rep!

AKKO
28-05-2013, 07:11 AM
Final hurdle with these hopefully now overcome...

"The cam gears you supplied were not only two teeth off on the exhaust cam front bank, they were also two teeth out (in the opposite direction) on the intake cam front bank. Additionally they were also three teeth out on both cams (in opposite directions) on the rear bank too. As a result they were difficult and time consuming to get right. They are now dialled in correctly. Intake cam centres of 109Deg ATDC and exhaust cam centres of 112Deg BTDC."

AKKO
16-07-2014, 01:30 PM
Little update.
Thanks to Paul (psbarham) who borrowed to me stock front exhaust cam gear with cam rotor blades I could investigate why in my aftermarket cam verniers rotor blade was so much misaligned.
So did few checks:
57756
Here is the answer...
Rotor blade wasn't misaligned at all! There was wrongly positioned timing mark!
There is 2 tooth misalign between both cam gears ;)
Now adjustable cam gear has a "new" timing mark scratched by myself:
57757
swinks / Eurospec can I confirm your findings compared to my post above, mines not behaving / performing as I would expect a cam'd VR4 would...

swinks
16-07-2014, 05:02 PM
Chris, when I diid mine, there was only exhaust front gear (that with camshaft sensor rotor blade) which was wrongly marked. I did check several times each adjustable cam gear vs. stock one. And those dears where identical to stock, but front exhaust one (markings). After some slight mods all gears where performing well.
You won't get any change in performance after fitting adjustable cam gears. Once fitted you will need to dial them accordingly to your camshaft profile. There is no golden rule, unless you have well known engine to whole tuners community. Otherwise it's a very slow process of dyno runs with different cam settings. For starter you may start with +1/-1. Remember not to dial more than 2 degree each direction unless you did all maths and calculations and you are sure that valve won't meet a piston. Saying that because no-one yet did full play with 6A13TT, and it's still unknown territory.

Few general rules with cam gear setting:
Generally, advancing a cam gear opens a valve sooner, and closes it sooner… retarding the cam gear, opens the valve later, and closes it later… since all you’ve done is “move” the fixed event.
1. Advancing Intake and Exhaust: This will provide the car with more bottom end power, and will decrease top end. Advancing both cam gears will move overlap earlier but will not increase it.
2. Retarding Intake and Exhaust: This will increase the cars top end, but will decrease low end. Retarding both cam gears will move the overlap later and but will not change the amount of overlap.
3. Advance Exhaust Only: This will help the cars top end, and it reduces overlap.
4. Retard Exhaust only: This will help the cars mid range power, very useful for cars with big turbos / big cams. By increasing overlap, It decreases lag significantly. Doing this will bring the boost on all at once. Very common DSM modification.
5. Advance Intake only: This will increase overlap and helps the cars bottom end and mid range power. This mod will bring the turbo on all at once, although isnt a very common mod for DSMS.
6. Advancing Intake and Retarding Exhaust: Other most popular setting. This will increase overlap, it will help with mid range without sacrifice top end power.

Also, need to be repeated once again. There is no "best setting" for particular cams. As example: the same dial for HKS 264 would make totally different impact on powerband with GSC S1 cams. Another example, BC 272 cams require different dialling than GSC S2 (272), where later don't need to be dialled and gives you the best results being at 0/0.

Welcome to a long dyno sessions... :)

AKKO
17-07-2014, 12:44 PM
Wasn't expecting gears to make a difference without adjustment, rather performance has gone backwards since before cams were fitted hence I suspect something is off somewhere perhaps the cam timing...

swinks
17-07-2014, 12:50 PM
Well, put back on stock cam gears, do dyno. Then fit adjustable gears (check them against stock one prior fitting) dialled at 0/0. Do dyno run. If result is very close, then it's not cam gears in fault.

SAF68
24-07-2014, 10:46 AM
Akko , what is the brand of your cams gear ? Hope for you that is not WORKS T7 Cam Pulley ...

Saf

AKKO
26-07-2014, 04:58 AM
Yes Works gears, don't believe issue is with the gears just settings which can be measured other ways if needed (dial-guage to measure lift etc)