Engine & TCL light, diff noises..

[KlUe]

Hi all,

I'm very new to the world of AWD vehicles, let alone an import with very little info avaliable in Oz! Previous car was a supercharged v8 commodore..

So I've purchased a newly imported 2000 model VR4 Legnum, great condition... BUT.. When I originally test drove, the engine light and TCL lights were both showing. Dealer replaced a vacuum solenoid and checked ECU error codes and appeared OK. Also got a full MTA check which was all positive.

Anyway so got the car yesterday, and within 20 mins lights are back on and an intermittent possible bearing noise appears from the rear, esp during take off. Dealer reckons rear diff oil could be causing this, but said was rare in my car and more common in evo. He has definitely not left me high and dry and will pay for whatever repairs are required, it's just annoying to be doing this so early with my new car!!

Has anyone got a guide to bleeding and servicing the AYC system for this car? The whole concept of a reservoir in the boot is new to me, plus Repco had no idea what oil to use, and looking over the net was similarly bad!

Any help or advice would be much appreciated :)

Cheers

[Davezj]

Hi and welcome to the club.
All the information you need is in the clubs library section which is accessible once you are a fully paid up member.

But here is some info for you,
The rear diff can make a noise when fluid is low in the rear diffyou have ATF and gear oi, in different section of the diff.
The reservoir in the boot is a separate oil system to the diff oils, it runs one side of the pump and the other side of the pump runs the diff.
If you have low pressure in the ayc pump a red light AYC will light up on the dash when the car is running, it is the same AYC light that comes on when the ignition is turned on before starting the car.
Hope this holos, and I can't stress enough full membership is worth every penny.

[wintertidenz]

A Mitsi dealership will be able to flush the AYC system for you properly, as it's a pain to do without the Mitsi diagnostic tool or Evoscan and the right cable.

The noise on takeoff you will probably notice as well if you corner hard and the AYC bars light up.

You will need SAE90 diff oil and about a litre to two litres of MM-SP3 - don't use anything other than that transmission fluid, as it will destroy the diff.

Some of the OzVR4 guys might be able to give you a hand.

[Nick Mann]

As above, really. Rear diff vibrating/rumbling noise is often the clutch pack oil, ATF is needed and must meet or exceed the SPIII standard.

TCL on a 2000 car is very rare, but on prefacelift cars the engine check light and tcl light together usually means a problem with the vacuum system - check all the small hoses from the top of the throttle body to the solenoids and canister on the bulkhead. If re-seating those doesn't help, next thing is the solenoids themselves.

[KlUe]

Thanks for the replies guys, I wanted to avoid going to dealer as they'll charge way more for the same thing.. Will let you know how I go.

[KlUe]

TCL on a 2000 car is very rare, but on prefacelift cars the engine check light and tcl light together usually means a problem with the vacuum system - check all the small hoses from the top of the throttle body to the solenoids and canister on the bulkhead. If re-seating those doesn't help, next thing is the solenoids themselves.

The dealer reckons he swapped the solenoids from another legnum but clearly hasn't helped.. Would it be related in any way to the noises I'm hearing in the diff? Apparently it was at auto electricians and they couldn't find fault codes after swapping solenoid..

Cheers

[swinks]

Undo MAF and check if it starts. If yes, but rough idling then you have simple air leak (either turbo pipes, vacuum or dv). Wrong vacuum will affect asc and ayc so grinding noise and 3 bars of ayc. I know sounds strange but it's true.

[KlUe]

Undo MAF and check if it starts. If yes, but rough idling then you have simple air leak (either turbo pipes, vacuum or dv). Wrong vacuum will affect asc and ayc so grinding noise and 3 bars of ayc. I know sounds strange but it's true.

Yeah I'll check it out, though the AYC lights are not coming on, it's just engine and TCL lights. Might just get it back to the dealer and get them to fix their crap pre-sales issues!

[Davezj]

Yeah I'll check it out, though the AYC lights are not coming on, it's just engine and TCL lights. Might just get it back to the dealer and get them to fix their crap pre-sales issues!

Green ayc bars when driving, when they should not really coming up.

Does the AYC light come on when the ignition turns on. If not then it could be a dodgy AYC cover up, by removing the AYC warning light bulb. So it does not show errors.

[wintertidenz]

Also if the AYC green bars don't light up when the ignition is turned on, check behind the glovebox for the AYC ECU. It should have all the connectors firmly in - if not, then they may have pulled them out to mask the fault.
This may cause other issues if they have pulled it.

[KlUe]

Green ayc bars when driving, when they should not really coming up.

Does the AYC light come on when the ignition turns on. If not then it could be a dodgy AYC cover up, by removing the AYC warning light bulb. So it does not show errors.

Definitely no green bars while driving normally, they do flash when ignition first turns on. Can't see any AYC light apart from the white one beneath the green bars.. Is there supposed to be a red or orange warning light...?

[KlUe]

Just called the dealer and told him about it.. He's arranging a tow truck tomorrow and taking to specialist in my area which he'll cover all repair costs for. Just disappointed my new car isn't right.. Will post results when I find out, thanks again for everyone's help and input!

[SEAN-NZ]

atleast you dont have to pay for repairs, hope he actually gets it done, properly

[KlUe]

Yeah, the guy seems like an honest bloke so I'm trusting him for now, it sounds genuinely like he wants to help me fix the car.

PS, It's going to Meek Automotive in NSW, for any Aussie members..

[wintertidenz]

Meek Automotive knows these cars really well. A lot of the OzVR4 boys deal with Meek, and he does a good job - so he should be able to find the fault.

[KlUe]

Yeah, so far they've been great. He reckons it's most likely the rear AYC pump that is causing all the issues.. Will find out tomorrow exactly though.

[KlUe]

Problem is the AYC pump. Meek said Mitsubishi don't sell components for the pump for Australia so the best way to fix it is a 2nd hand pump. So currently they've just removed the fuse for the AYC meaning I dont have LSD on the rear. Though, car is staying there until the dealer either locates one from Japan, or from one of their other cars in the yard.

[wintertidenz]

There are plenty in NZ - contact Ralliart NZ or Kempys, who are Mitsi wreckers here. The dealer can pay ;)

[Gly]

ayc does not = lsd,

the rear diff is a open diff, with ayc, which does torque transfer from left to right under required circumstances

[Nick Mann]

Apologies if someone answered this already and I missed it:

There is a red AYC warnng lamp at the bottom right of the dash, that should come on and go off with the other warning lights on start up. There is a you tube video of it somewhere that someone did a while ago.

[KlUe]

Cheers mate, have sent an email to Kempys asking if they've got one to spare.. Hopefully the Aussie dollar will help keep shipping costs reasonable overall. But yeah, dealer can pay :)

[SEAN-NZ]

this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHOXQTVF9_0

[KlUe]

This pump is doing my head in..... Called Kempy's in NZ with my VIN number trying to find a 2nd hand one, apparently there is a pre-May 2000 model pump, and a post May 2000 pump...??? They didn't have any of the newer ones so I'm stuck.

Will a Gallant VR4 V6TT pump suit? Found one on eBay for $300..

[KlUe]

Yeah I've got the light there, the missus checked for me when I was at work and she didn't see it.

[mattnz]

This pump is doing my head in..... Called Kempy's in NZ with my VIN number trying to find a 2nd hand one, apparently there is a pre-May 2000 model pump, and a post May 2000 pump...??? They didn't have any of the newer ones so I'm stuck.

Will a Gallant VR4 V6TT pump suit? Found one on eBay for $300..

Yes, they are the same car apart from the boot.

I wasn't aware of any changes though, so it will be the same deal as the one you're looking at I guess. Someone else will know :)

[Davezj]

Yeah I've got the light there, the missus checked for me when I was at work and she didn't see it.

What does you mean she don't see it.
does it come on at all or with the other light and go off again when the car is started or does it stay on all the time?
If it goes off with the other light then it is not the pump. You could be getting a worse pump fitted than the one you are removing. Best to be sure.

And I can't see a reference to what error code are being display on the dash when you put it in flashy dash mode (diagnostic mode).

Paid up membership is worth the money.

[KlUe]

But does it come with the other light and go off again when the car is started or does it stay on all the time?
If it goes off with the other light then it is not the pump. You could be getting a worse pump fitted than the one you are removing. Best to be sure.

And I can't see a reference to what error code are being display on the dash when you put it in flashy dash mode (diagnostic mode).

Paid up membership is worth the money.


Yeah the light comes on and turns off with the other ones after few secs. Meek are sure it's the pump as when they removed the fuse the noise stopped.

Still looking into a post may 2000 ayc pump.. I'll get full membership I guess and see if I find anything out in the library.

Cheers

[Nick Mann]

I'm not aware of a difference in the pump. But I do believe the pressure switch on the pump assembly changed at that time, from normally open to normally closed, or vice-versa.

[KlUe]

I'm not aware of a difference in the pump. But I do believe the pressure switch on the pump assembly changed at that time, from normally open to normally closed, or vice-versa.

Hi Nick,

That's what Kempy's have told me (see below), however they say due to the pressure difference, it's not compatible.
If anyone knows of a site I can import this sort of stuff directly or via Japan, let me know...

there are very few late types out there
we use mitsubishi nz system and shows 2 types we have never had a late one to compare the diffrenece we have been told by one of our customers they have a different pressure and dont work, so we cant interchange them
early part no: MR222152
your part number late type : MR553977

[KlUe]

Meek have also got the price for a new pump from Japan - $2990... Dealer will definitely not pay that much so I guess I'll be without AYC until we find a 2nd hand one, very frustrating..

[KlUe]

OK, so I've picked up the car, Meek have taken the pump out and are going to try to repair it instead of replacing the whole thing. So currently I've just got no AYC in the rear.

The motor has pretty much burnt out due to the bearings (We think) being seized. Usually caused by incorrect servicing of the pump. The pressure sensor should be fine.. Hopefully. I believe this was the part that was different from May 2000 onwards. We are thinking an Evo pump motor may be interchangeable, which would be a massive relief!

Have attached a pic of her, for anyone who may be interested!

Cheers

[Gly]

there is no real difference in pumps, apart from the pressure switch,
which you can just swap,

or just swap the ayc ecu to the earlier one, and it will work perfectly...

i have both the early ecu and pump if you get stuck.. but i cant imagine shipping to be cheap.

[KlUe]

there is no real difference in pumps, apart from the pressure switch,
which you can just swap,

or just swap the ayc ecu to the earlier one, and it will work perfectly...

i have both the early ecu and pump if you get stuck.. but i cant imagine shipping to be cheap.

Cheers for the reply mate.

So if we can't fix the pump, if I was to find an early model AYC pump assy, could I just swap over the pressure switch and it'll be all good?

[Gly]

yep. this is the only diff i have been able to spot on them....

if you can get in contact with kenneth on these forums he should be able to confirm this.

[Kenneth]

Yep, the pump itself is the same. My understanding is that the pump motors are prone to dying if over used, never heard of the actual mechanical pump section dying though.

You can swap the pump unit over (if I recall correctly, it ends up in 3 pieces, motor, pump unit and then the housing with all the piping and stuff) and it should all be good.

[elnevio]

Have attached a pic of her, for anyone who may be interested!

Cheers

Very nice! :sunny:

I note you have the somewhat rare underhandle protectors, with built in lights for the front doors! :afro:

It is clearly a Type-S, but I am wondering why it has prefacelift wheels, and not the standard Type-S facelift wheels?

[CANDEE]

Wheels were prob put on during compliance Nev... The aussie one is funny like that some times..

[KlUe]

Yep, the pump itself is the same. My understanding is that the pump motors are prone to dying if over used, never heard of the actual mechanical pump section dying though.

You can swap the pump unit over (if I recall correctly, it ends up in 3 pieces, motor, pump unit and then the housing with all the piping and stuff) and it should all be good.

Yeah, that's what the pump looks like. Mechanic tested the motor and it's running verrryy slowly due to it pretty much burning out, I guess the bearings were too far gone for it to provide pressure. I'm hoping its an easy fix now they've taken it apart - thanks for your reply!

[KlUe]

Very nice! :sunny:

I note you have the somewhat rare underhandle protectors, with built in lights for the front doors! :afro:

It is clearly a Type-S, but I am wondering why it has prefacelift wheels, and not the standard Type-S facelift wheels?

Cheers mate. So what's the difference with the type-s? I thought the underhande things were just added by the old owner. The paint on them needs attention, the material doesn't seem to hold it on well.. Bubbled off in parts. Been looking at getting some matt black Evo rims, suggestions?

[elnevio]

I think the underhandle thingies were a dealer-fitted option. The obvious Type-S things from the outside are the wheel arch extensions and spoiler, and normally the twin-spoke wheels.

[mitsiboyblue]

I repair all AYC pumps if some people are having problems just send me a message.
Dave OC