Benefit of a map ecu on a 7202

[Jesus-Ninja]

I have a 7202, kindly flashed by Jason (Foxdie), but have been mulling over a MapEcu.

Is it worth the effort, or is the stock MAFgood for significant power hikes (am considering other turbo options). Aside from removing MAF which is more restrictive and has issues with other filters, are there any significant benefits?

[Nick Mann]

It's much easier to tune. The MAP 2 can also control a boost solenoid directly. It also has outputs for controlling things like additional injectors, NOS activation etc. It used to be an easy choice to get a MAP 2, bang per buck it was a good investment, IMO. It still has that bang per buck but the flashableness of the 7202 & 3 becomes a better bang per buck. The MAP 2 is potentially the next level, but it isn't so much of a step up as it used to be.

[Jesus-Ninja]

Cheers, Nick. I have an auxiliary switch on my E-Boost (eg for water mist), and extra injectors / NOS aren't really on my road map, so I'll hang fire. :)

[Kenneth]

There are a number of options in ECU mods which would render the need for MAP2 ECU redundant. A couple are

1) Create a MAF bypass and re-scale the MAF so that you significantly increase the MAF size
2) Wait until speed density is integrated into the standard ECU code (no actual ETA on this yet, but it is probably my next mod)

[Jesus-Ninja]

Cheers Kenneth. I also owe you many thanks for my new map :)

[foxdie]

And that reminds me, moneys heading your way tomorrow ken, had to dash to A&E to have my stitches removed.

[Jesus-Ninja]

Stitches? Not from Friday? I know the clutch was sharp....

[foxdie]

Yeah your clutch engagement was so harsh I needed stitches ;)

Had surgery on my knee 2 weeks ago, stitches were due out today but GP nurse couldn't remove it and ended up being referred to a&e. Fun times :)

[wintertidenz]

I would stay with 7202 - especially with the speed density mods and (possibly?) live tuning coming up in the future.

[BCX]

There are a number of options in ECU mods which would render the need for MAP2 ECU redundant. A couple are

1) Create a MAF bypass and re-scale the MAF so that you significantly increase the MAF size
2) Wait until speed density is integrated into the standard ECU code (no actual ETA on this yet, but it is probably my next mod)

Ken,

How much have you done of speed density?

I've got some source code & opcodes written down, yet to actually hex edit the rom and test. Would you be interested in it?

Essentially performs lookup and replaces the value from the table the 'load'/airflow value in ram. The values of this table i havent quite determined. Table is IAT vs MAP (o2 sensor input).

This will tie in with my other mod to allow wideband input on the primary o2 input and perform a simulated o2 value for mitsus code.

[Jesus-Ninja]

How is speed density calculated? Don't you need to input boost and air temp?

[foxdie]

How is speed density calculated? Don't you need to input boost and air temp?

Yeah I did some reading yesterday, think it needs to know the air temp heading into the manifold, so a temp sensor would need fitting most likely inside the intake elbow or throttle body, one of the two possibly.

[Adam.Findlay]

the stock maf has an temp measuring device but as jason said you need to measure the temp as it enters the engine, think it has to be post intercooler/pre throttle body

[foxdie]

Also started looking at larger, less restrictive MAFs.

Evo X owners have fabricated larger MAFs and just moved the stock MAF sensor into their new pipework, maybe an option for us too? Naturally scaling will need to be adjusted but I can't foresee this being too much of a headache, it just requires the knowledge the MAF sensor is working fine (questionable as they can be up to 15 years old now...)

Food for thought?

[Confused]

Having just received my MAP-ECU from Steve-VR4-ish, I've been trawling through the various manuals (I'd love to just use the 7202 I've got, but it came up at a good price and I needed to know that I could just get my Anglia up and running without a MAF at all, and without a firm timescale from the people who would be modding the 7202 to do it, I couldn't let the MAP-ECU go!)

It states to install the temperature sensor into the plenum on turbo- and super-charged vehicles, and the airbox on N/A cars.

[Jesus-Ninja]

Also started looking at larger, less restrictive MAFs.

Evo X owners have fabricated larger MAFs and just moved the stock MAF sensor into their new pipework, maybe an option for us too? Naturally scaling will need to be adjusted but I can't foresee this being too much of a headache, it just requires the knowledge the MAF sensor is working fine (questionable as they can be up to 15 years old now...)

Food for thought?

I had similar ideas this morning. I'm guessing that a MAF bypass does just that - takes the air through two routes - one with the MAF - and is then scaled to get the correct amount of air. My thought was the same as yours - just stick the MAF in bigger tube - the "bypass" is then just the extra air moving through the larger pipe.

[foxdie]

One thing I'd like to know is just how restrictive our airbox, MAF and plumbing is... has anyone had notable power gains from say swapping out throttle bodies and / or custom intake plenums?

[Adam.Findlay]

I think the most restricting factor is the retarded pre turbo piping after the maf. especially the front one which runs up against the gearbox and block.
also I vaugely remember kenneth had worked on a ls1 blow through maf to replace the stock maf but this was before the whole 7202/3 reflahing saga began so he dumped it and started working on modding the roms and eventually hopefully working towards implementing linear scaling/map sensor

[Jesus-Ninja]

One thing I'd like to know is just how restrictive our airbox, MAF and plumbing is... has anyone had notable power gains from say swapping out throttle bodies and / or custom intake plenums?

I have some magnehelic differential pressure gauges. We can look at pressure drops across things like the MAF, elbow and wobbley turbo pipe.

[Kenneth]

Seems I am about the same place as you. I was going to start with implementing the same system as Ceddy as that seems to work (from what I read on the forums) where you basically have a 2d MAP scale, 3D VE lookup and then an 2D IAT compensation lookup.

I have the MAP sensor now so need to get around to installing it, logging and coding.

I am happy to do this mod though, so if that suits you, please do send through your notes etc :) Should really look at merging our disassembly databases too.

Ken


Ken,

How much have you done of speed density?

I've got some source code & opcodes written down, yet to actually hex edit the rom and test. Would you be interested in it?

Essentially performs lookup and replaces the value from the table the 'load'/airflow value in ram. The values of this table i havent quite determined. Table is IAT vs MAP (o2 sensor input).

This will tie in with my other mod to allow wideband input on the primary o2 input and perform a simulated o2 value for mitsus code.

[foxdie]

Should really look at merging our disassembly databases too.

Any chance that could be posted on someplace like GitHub to help some of us get up to speed? :)