Clear Timing Belt Covers

[veegeeta]

Hay guys and girls we are trying to organize a group buy for some clear timming belt covers on ozvr4 we need @ least 60 peoples interest to get the go ahead so far have about 20 . Any one in the uk or nz please show your interest on ozvr4. Thank you. I think these would be a nice addition for our cars. BLING BLING


Ok so have checked ozvr4 price is about $200-$220 usd

[Badger_01]

How much would they be?

[veegeeta]

Im not sure yet, have to talk to macca on ozvr4, I was just getting info out there @ moment to see if any one interested( I will find out)
How much would they be?

[Wodjno]

Im not sure yet, have to talk to macca on ozvr4, I was just getting info out there @ moment to see if any one interested( I will find out)

A rough idea of price would probably inspire more interest /yes

[Davezj]

A link to the ozvr4 thread would be a good idea,
Price is another good thing to post up.
If you can get a pair of clear cam covers for about £40 ($60) then I would interest in them, but if they £100 ($150) then no they would be too expensive for me to consider.
So an idea of price Is essential.
It is like saying who wants a 4 ton block of gold, I am organising a group buy I don't know how much it will be just tell me if your want one, yes I want a 4 ton block of gold but I very much doubt I would be able to afford one.

[adaxo]

Same as above, interested but price dependant

[veegeeta]

Price would be around $200-$220

[Davezj]

so that is about £130-£145

thats me out.

[ANTHONY]

how long would they say clear for?

[Wodjno]

I wasn't in. But I'm out :rolleyes:

Sent via"The Force" using tapatalk :-)

[swinks]

I think I'm able to source some manufacturers in Poland being able to make clear covers from perspex or other material for half that price (range 50 - 80 GBP), but they require CAD or other vector drawing to assess total costs and min. amount of orders.
Anyone can help?

[Davezj]

i can do 3d models, and generate dimensioned 2d cad cad drawing from them using NX.

would you want a complete copy of the standard ones, with all the same detail on them or something that has all the mounting points and contact surfaces, but something a bit different for the rest of it. or a real plane jane cover to make it as cheap as possible and just allow the beauty that is revolving cam gears shine through. i can do them but it might take a little while to do.
i do have spare cam covers to do the drawing from, so i should be able to get them dimentionaly correct.

[swinks]

i can do 3d models, and generate dimensioned 2d cad cad drawing from them using NX.

would you want a complete copy of the standard ones, with all the same detail on them or something that has all the mounting points and contact surfaces, but something a bit different for the rest of it. or a real plane jane cover to make it as cheap as possible and just allow the beauty that is revolving cam gears shine through. i can do them but it might take a little while to do.
i do have spare cam covers to do the drawing from, so i should be able to get them dimentionaly correct.

That would be fantastic Dave.
I think to do as close as possible to original is the best option, but I wouldn't be bothered with those two oval/circle carvings on a sides. Shape and mount points are most important.

[Davezj]

yes, keep it simple.

i will have a go and get back to you.
you can download a free 3d viewer and the 2d will be .pdf

[swinks]

Fantastic Dave!
Well, tbh I have no clue when it comes to technical terms. Just being told by few manufacturers of transparent perspex boxes, shields, etc. that they need ready CAD or at least good vector drawing.
I hope that pdf is good as well. They need simply assess of costs and min. amount of order.

[BraindG]

Think Dave will provide two version, 3D CAD version to manufacture the item and a 2D PDF version, for viewing to masses

[swinks]

Oh... I see.

[Gingerfish]

Price would be around $200-$220

Might struggle to get UKCVR4 interest at that price, plus import duties and such. I wouldn't be intersted at that price.

[Davezj]

swinks
i will need to know how the manufacturer is going to make these covers.
milled out of solid?
injection moulded in a die?
vacuum formed over a former?

this will dictate how the 3d model is created.
As i said above this will not be a quick job to do.
i am sure purspex can not be formed in the same way as the black ABS plastic (think it is ABS) used to create the factory ones, which i would imagine is injection moulded. the die for that would cost £1000's to produce.

we will have to talk about this tomasz, and need to see the sort of stuff this company produces on a regular basis to determin if the design needs dumming down to the bear minimum, ie fixing points and cover the cams, might not be able to reproduce the type of sealing joint between the bits of the covers though.
i can draw the covers with every possible detail included It is time consuming but not difficult to do, but there is no point if they can not be manufactured like that.

[swinks]

swinks
i will need to know how the manufacturer is going to make these covers.
milled out of solid?
injection moulded in a die?
vacuum formed over a former?

I've found that 3 of 4 manufacturers are dealing with projects made from: perspex, HPI or ABS.
Method they using:
- vacuum thermoforming
- CNC milling
- vacuum moulds
I'm gonna make inquiry with them what method and material they would propose. Obviously it has to transparent and solid.

[Davezj]

the reason i ask about the method of forming the covers is the vacuum forming mothod requires a different type type of part, as you can't use vertical surfaces as the vacuum forming process causes unwanted webbing at the edges and the bends.
well that is what i seem to remember form a few years ago.

maybe it would be a case of just me creating the 3d model as per the original cam cover and the company in question can then tweek the design to be manufacturable in there facility and useing there vacuum forming process

[swinks]

the reason i ask about the method of forming the covers is the vacuum forming mothod requires a different type type of part, as you can't use vertical surfaces as the vacuum forming process causes unwanted webbing at the edges and the bends.
well that is what i seem to remember form a few years ago.

maybe it would be a case of just me creating the 3d model as per the original cam cover and the company in question can then tweek the design to be manufacturable in there facility and useing there vacuum forming process
I have already emailed them asking what would be the best method and material for covers production (with 2 conditions: being transparent and durable as stock) and attached pictures of similar covers for Skyline and Evo engines, so they would know what I'm about.
Hope to get answers soon.

[Davezj]

well i have done the front cam cover as a basic 3d model, i will do a sanity check on it, e.g. print it on paper one to one scale and see if it fits on my car, bolt holes cam gear clearance, that sort of thing.
then i will then pretty it up doing al the edge blends , chamfers, etc.

i will post up the file viewer link so you can view the file as a 3d model. i think it will be a JT file viewer.

the manufacturer will need the model exported in a certain file format so the can read it into there machines. the normal format is .IGS (igis) or .stp (step 203), i can do others but these are the most popular. i can give them a 2d pdf dimensioned up drawing as well, if required. but the more thay want the longer it will take.
let me know what they want.

[swinks]

well i have done the front cam cover as a basic 3d model, i will do a sanity check on it, e.g. print it on paper one to one scale and see if it fits on my car, bolt holes cam gear clearance, that sort of thing.

Good.

There is some progress here as well.
I've sent total of 12 different queries to different manufactures. Got 7 responses on my emails. Still waiting for other 5.
In 2 cases they are unable to do covers (they don't have sufficient technology).
Anyway, after some chat seems with two companies with 3D printing stuff reckons they can do covers for reasonable money. Both require CAD model to assess costs. Others still not sure if they do injection into moulds or other way, but I'm gonna call them have chat.
Seems that we need basic CAD (3D model) at least of 1 cover to let them assess how much material is used, etc.

[Davezj]

Good.

There is some progress here as well.
I've sent total of 12 different queries to different manufactures. Got 7 responses on my emails. Still waiting for other 5.
In 2 cases they are unable to do covers (they don't have sufficient technology).
Anyway, after some chat seems with two companies with 3D printing stuff reckons they can do covers for reasonable money. Both require CAD model to assess costs. Others still not sure if they do injection into moulds or other way, but I'm gonna call them have chat.
Seems that we need basic CAD (3D model) at least of 1 cover to let them assess how much material is used, etc.

i will have it done this weekend tomasz, i will post upthe file in step203 format and IGES which are both standard outputs.
i will also post those links up ti the respective viewrs.
i have to do one more thing on the model and that is put the groove in to take the sponge gasket that seals the cover to the engine mount for some reason the extrude will not subtract from the cover body. i will work it out and print it off to overlay it on the cam covers i have to make sure it is going to fit.

there will still be some tweeking needed to the model until i am completely satisfied that it is exactly what we need, as i know and anybody else will know if they have taken a cam cover off the rear one generally catches on the back cam and you have to manhandle it off and over the cam so i would want to put some kind of cut out in that area to make it easier to remove. it will leave a slightly exposed area at the back of the cambelt but i would be happy with that. we can discuss this kind of stuff once the company is found that can do the job for a reasonable price. There may even be an opertunity to put a logo/website address on the cover if it does not add cost.

The manufacture of the cover via 3d printing has to be looked at in detail. we have a 3d printer at work, but the bed is too small to print a full cam cover, but that is not the issue. the plastic that is printed on our printed (objet Eden250) comes with 2 different print inks, one makes a defomable plastic item but is lacking in ridgidity for our purpose and the other ink makes a very stiff plastic item but it is quite brittle and will crack.
unfortunatly both inks are only semi transparent and start going soft/drippy/melting at about 50deg C so they would not be much good in the engine bay.
tomasz you will have to get conformation from the comanies what the finished spec of the plastics will be once it is cured.

Tomasz you are going to have to get them to send you a sample of the cover so you can drop it and kick it about and test it to see if it will stand up to the abuse it is likely to get in our hands. if they don't want to send you a full scale sample due to people trying to get a fee sample and then not placing an order with them you could ask for a half scale sample or something like that.

[swinks]

Regarding 3D printing. Already 2 manufacturers declared that they are able to do transparent items, but they need also following info like operating temp. (up to 150C ?), chemicals in environment (oils, grease) and most important CAD drawing to assess structure and costs.
There were other 2 manufacturers offering injection into mould, but they have equipment that does minimum 1000 items at 1 go. Pretty useless in our case.

[Davezj]

Ok here we go swinks
the first draft of front cam cover is done. the dimentions are not quite correct so i will have to do another version and construct it in a slightly different way as the first one didn't quite work as i intended and is not correct so it can not be used to crate a front cam cover that fits. but it will be good enough for a price quote to be done, then we can get feed back on the dimentions i have used for thickness and angles, etc to see i it can be made cheaper or more easilymanufacturable.
i can incorperate anything needed in the next version.

these are the free downlodable viewer for the files i am going to post up. just download the 15mb file and run it. it is a bit basic but it is a free viewer.

http://igsviewer.com/

http://stpviewer.com/

i can't upload .stp and .igs files so i have zipped them up together. just download them and unzip them and use the the correct viewer to have a look and let me know what you think.



hope this works OK.

sorry guys i just get a red cross icon where the file should be.
can anyone else see the file BraindG
barry what am i doing wrong to get a .zip file or .pdf for the that matter.

[BraindG]

I've fixed..

You can't attach anything other than images "inline".

[swinks]

Downloaded :)

[Davezj]

How does it look tomasz, is what you were expecting.

Thank barry

[swinks]

Looks good Dave, good job.
Did send them to manufactures, waiting for reply.
In 1 case I was re-directed to UK based company.

[Davezj]

When you get an estimate of price back from manufactures, Let me know if it is worth me doing version two with the exact dimension on it, and let me know any manufacturing requirements that are needed so I can tweek the design to make it work.

[swinks]

Sorry, no good news at the moment. Seems that being in PL I have to go few offices and headquaters to speak in person. :(

[Davezj]

just let me know when you need the next version.

[veegeeta]

You guys had any luck on this issue, looks like a race to see who has them made first aus or the uk. any way ill buy a set either way:happy:

[Davezj]

waiting on tomasz to fill in the details.

but i think it might cost more than he thought. i might have to come up with a dumb down version of a cam cover that can be vacuum formed in one prcess over a blank. with no frilly bits just an formed cover, no spaces for the rubber sealing srips or anything like that.

we will have to wait and see.

[veegeeta]

I did say they are not cheap to get made hence the $220 aud price tag.
waiting on tomasz to fill in the details.

but i think it might cost more than he thought. i might have to come up with a dumb down version of a cam cover that can be vacuum formed in one prcess over a blank. with no frilly bits just an formed cover, no spaces for the rubber sealing srips or anything like that.

we will have to wait and see.

[swinks]

waiting on tomasz to fill in the details.

No good news I'm afraid.
I had to give up on this project. Hadn't got enough time, and energy to follow up.
Being p**sed off by my vr4 big time, I spent 5 more days than expected on heads refurb. Also few family issues, so I couldn't focus on this project.
Sorry guys. I failed. :embarasse

[Davezj]

fair play tomasz, we all have to prioritize our time.


if you want any other 3D CAD drawings doing or PCB then give me a shout. this is what i do for my job, i am a PCB designer, that does 3d CAD stuff on the side.

let me know
dave