Speakers - advice needed

[fassi1]

Hi everyone.
Still have oem speakers on my VR4 and it is time to replace them with something including oem tweeters which are not working at all.
I have Sony stereo with output 4x52W
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/ich-bluetooth/mex-bt2900.
The only thing i know is that i need 6.5'' speakers max about 62mm deep,
but have no idea what peak power or what RMS power do they need to be, should i go for 1-way, 2-way, 3-way speakers? Dont't have this sort of knowladge.
What im expecting is nice clear sound :)

[Nick Mann]

Your biggest factor here is budget.

Tell us what you want to spend and if you want to change all speakers, have a sub, have an amp, run new cables etc... I'm sure there will be people with opinions!

[fassi1]

I just want to change all speakers.
I think ill be looking to spend about £100.

[adaxo]

I think ill be looking to spend about £100.

for one speaker?:jester:

get a speakers from known brand and you will be ok, if you want spend a bit more, look at Hertz (http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm), they are known to be good value for money

[fassi1]

Its not about the money but more about getting the right speakers for stereo.
What about Kenwood or Pioneer or Alpine, they r not good quality products?

[Nick Mann]

I've got Alpine speakers in my car, but getting all four plus tweeters for £100 is going to be tricky. I have a pioneer double din running some old alpines in the rear doors and some new components in the front. I am very pleased with the sound quality for the money. I'd happily recommend them. I have got these in the front:
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/alpine-spg-17cs.html
and some old coaxial 2 way DDDrive in the back.
I have installed the crossover in the front door and run new cables from the head unit to the front doors.

I would guess that these are the current equivalent of my rear speakers:
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/alpine-spg-17c2.html

Potentially you are in the window of more money equals better sound, I suspect bang per buck starts going down over £100 per pair of speakers, but obviously absolute quality can carry on going up.

[fassi1]

Are u running amp or straight of the stereo?
Was trying to find some guide yesday how to choose the right speakers for the stereo and found some
http://buy.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Choosing_Car_Stereo_Speakers
What i mean is that if stereos max output is 52W and ur speakers RMS power is 60-70W u may never experiance speakers full potencialxperiance?
As i never gonna use stereos max power wouldn't be better to go for speakers with RMS power 40W ?
Don't get me wrong, not trying to knock the price down, just trying to find right speakers for stereo output.

[SteveH]

Are u running amp or straight of the stereo?
Was trying to find some guide yesday how to choose the right speakers for the stereo and found some
http://buy.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Choosing_Car_Stereo_Speakers
What i mean is that if stereos max output is 52W and ur speakers RMS power is 60-70W u may never experiance speakers full potencialxperiance?
As i never gonna use stereos max power wouldn't be better to go for speakers with RMS power 40W ?
Don't get me wrong, not trying to knock the price down, just trying to find right speakers for stereo output.

Stereo output is never as quoted, most are about 12w so i wouldn't worry too much about killing your speakers. Once you start adding a sub and amp is when things start dying......well unless you let my wife drive with her shocking music!

[fassi1]

Stereo output is never as quoted, most are about 12w so i wouldn't worry too much about killing your speakers. Once you start adding a sub and amp is when things start dying......well unless you let my wife drive with her shocking music!
So that's what i mean, speakers with RMS power 40W should do the job and more powerfull speakers will not perform better unless amp is added, am i right?

[Nick Mann]

I am not using an amp, just running them straight from the head unit. My Pioneer says it is 45W per channel, but is actually 27W RMS into 4 ohms per channel.

Sound quality and power are different things, although often they change together. Volume is affected by power, but also by the efficiency of the speaker. Look for the decibels per watt rating for that info.

In an ideal world your speakers would be rated at the same output as the head unit or amp. From a "I don't want to blow things up" point of view, the next best situation is speakers that are rated at less than the amp. Contrary to the simple conclusion, an underpowered amp is usually more capable of damaging speakers than an overpowered one.

[Nick Mann]

Oh, also, speakers don't have power, they take power and turn that into sound. That's why efficiency can become important for volume if the amp has less power. As far as I know the rated power of a speaker is the power it can take before the voice coil overheats and/or the diaphram runs out of movement. The latter often leads to the former. If you run a very underpowered amp or headunit with speakers then you have a high chance of clipping at volume, which makes the speaker movement violent and raspy, leading to an overheated voicecoil and horrible forces on the diaphram.

[swinks]

Nick refers to RMS figure, which IMO is pretty useless and only marketing figure. Speakers have also printed on a back nominal power - thats the max power of continuous power applied to speakers. IIRC, Mitsi stock door speakers are rated 15W nominal.
So you have 2 figures: peak power (RMS) and max real power.
Talking about brands, I also would recommend Alpine or Pioneer. There is also budged brand with quite good stuff - Vibe.

[Nick Mann]

There are hundreds of ways of measuring power. I thought RMS was the best way of comparing as it is the only properly defined method? Certainly, in the home hi-fi industry, RMS is the comparison method of choice.

[Nick Mann]

Also, you can have amps that claim, for example, 250 watts into four channels. So 1000 watts of power. Fair enough, but then look at the fuse required for the amp. I have seen an amp claiming 1000 watts running off a 30 amp fuse on the 12v side. 12v at 30 amps is 360 watts, so how does the amp produce more than it takes from the battery? The only way I can see is for capacitors to store power internal to the amp and then release it in one big lump. This is fine for helping an amp release it's power in a smooth way, but measuring only during the power release from those capacitors and not during the charge up is misleading IMO. "Peak Power" becomes a measurement of capacitor release, from the top of the soundwave to the bottom over a single cycle and is often unrepeatable or unsustainable in the real world.

[fassi1]

I can understand that numbers quoted by manufacturers may be far from truth but these are the numbers we are given.
The question is what are the right speakers for my head unit?

[Nick Mann]

Sorry, my point above was that as far as I know rms is the way to compare between manufacturers.

I'd still suggest the alpine speakers I linked to earlier.

[fassi1]

Sorry, my point above was that as far as I know rms is the way to compare between manufacturers.

I'd still suggest the alpine speakers I linked to earlier.

Sounds like u very happy with the quality u get from those speakers so will stick with ur choice mate.
Thanks.

[CANDEE]

My recommendations would be the following:

http://www.rainbowcaraudio.com/slx265.html

or

http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_50

I find that the DLS & Rainbow speakers are very good value for money and have better sound quality, even if they are a little more expensive than the likes of Alpine etc.

I have the DLS MS6A's which are rated at 100wrms, but have had close on 400wrms into them with careful gains... ;)

[Nick Mann]

The dls are approx 50% more and the rainbows 100% more than the alpines. They should sound better! ;)

I'm more a home hi-fi fan that a car one, and many people know more about both than I do. I'm sure any products that people would recommend would be interesting for all of us.

[Pugme]

iv just bought a full hertz setup for mine, just gotta fit it all!!

if ur not running off an amp power handling will never be an issue and u will never get amy sort of decent sound regardless of the brand as u will never get decent power or frequency range out of a HU.

[VR457]

The simple answer is that a headunit will not be enough to run door speakers, it will always be a second best choice. Therefore, look for the lowest possible watt rating for the speaker. Infinity, Alpine, Pioneer - all these will give you good value for money.

What also makes a speaker loud is its sensitivity rating. It's been a while since i was into this but afaik if you have a 50wrms speaker rated 92db sens then it will be the same loudness as a 100wrms speaker rated at 89db sens. Roughly speaking.

[fassi1]

Finally replaced all the speakers and tweeters with crossovers in front doors.
Im very pleased with the sound. Well recommended if somebody wants to replace OEM speakers.

[Nick Mann]

What did you go for in the end?

[fassi1]

Exactly what ur links show.

[Nick Mann]

Okay. Glad you like it too, I was very pleased with the quality of mine direct from the headunit. Jamil even seemed to think it wasn't bad for what it was! :P

[VR457]

:) :) high praise indeed! :) :)