45K Service

[Jimbo]

Oh gawd, this is turning into the most expensive day of my life :( The car's in today for it's major-major-major service for which I'm already paying £655 for the privilege of :lipsrseal , unfortunately things seem to be getting worse.....

I always keep my locking wheel nut in the glove box, but the garage said it isn't there, and I was already 50 miles away so couldn't search myself. After a series of phone calls and 2 hours of elapsed time I've had to get them to drill them out, so that's £10 for a new set then.

They've identified the ball joints have a fair bit of play in them, which means I either have to pay for the work to be done and hopefully haggle a refund from Mitsubishi when they finally get their act together on the later chassis no recalls, or alternatively wait it out and end up missing out on Castle Combe in Feb and Nurburgring in March (not a serious option!).

Then I got a call saying they've fitted the new cambelt, but the hydraulic tensioner won't reset, so that's another £90 for a replacement.

They've also noticed my throttle cable is seriously frayed (gulp!), so that's another £20.

I'd already got them to get me new brake pads all round as they're all fairly worn now, and since they're 6 and 4 pot callipers, then the Ferodo DS2500's are £200 and £100.....which I knew :$

What I didn't plan for was that my rear discs are now overly corroded and below mininum thickness, so I need to get a special order for them, but worst of all the front discs are apparently corroded on the inside face.....their 4 months old FFS!!! They cost me £230 EACH last time too :rolleyes5 (a call to AP me-thinks, now where's the damn receipt?!!)

I was going to treat myself to some nice PIAA silicone wiper blades, but after the subsequent remortgage I'll need to arrange for this little lot, I might just plump for Halfords own brand :laugh:

Oh, the things we do for our pride and joys :sad3: I'm just praying the phone doesn't ring again.

[Roadrunner]

Oh, the joys of VR-4 ownership ... :) :lipsrseal

[Dan_G]

OUCH!

An expensive day indeed........

She'll be as good as new once all done though

[pezza]

Yikes.. not a good day at all...

Some of the problems sound quite err. ..scary? :uhoh2:

have you worked out total including VAT? What is that likely to be? :uhoh:

When do you get your car back?

Close your eyes and sign on the dotted line..

And dont knock the halfrauds wiper blades I bought the deluxe sport ones with the spoilers :D ... actually think they were bosch ones? :dozey:

Hmm

but when all fixed am sure the grin will return! :-b

[Roadrunner]

And dont knock the halfrauds wiper blades I bought the deluxe sport ones with the spoilers :D ... actually think they were bosch ones?
I'd been replacing my blades with Bosch ones for years but wasn'y happy with the last two sets (generally change twice a year) so fitted Halfords ones instead. Have to say I've no complaints with them in the first six weeks since fitting them - quieter than the Bosch ones and the driver's one doesn't lift in the wind (both Bosch and Halfords being spoilered). Cheaper too :)

[pezza]

....and the driver's one doesn't lift in the wind (both Bosch and Halfords being spoilered). Cheaper too :)

what sorta speed do you drive that cause the wipers to lift? :rolleyes5
or is it generally very windy region? :D

[Simon]

Jimbo.......just think you'll have a car that feels brand new when you pick her up! ;) You cant miss the Ring trip!!!!!! Not to put a downer on it but i think it'll all cost about £12.67 without adding for the rear brake discs.........(ive moved the decimal point two places to make you feel better)....Good luck...let us know how you get on! :$ :lipsrseal

[Physician]

what sorta speed do you drive that cause the wipers to lift? :rolleyes5
or is it generally very windy region? :D

Mine start lifting at about 110. What I find particularly annoying is the side windows that won't shut at higher speeds ...... the safety mechanism cuts in because it thinks some kid's head or hand is stuck in the gap.

Oh Jimbo ....... those AP brakes really are a pain (and costly). Now I wouldn't usually offer but in your case I'd be willing to take them off you for, errr, umm, about £600 which should then HALVE your service/cambelt bill :-D :-D :-D :sad3:

[Kieran]

...What I find particularly annoying is the side windows that won't shut at higher speeds ...... the safety mechanism cuts in...

Phew! Thought that was just my car that did that! :$

And Jimbo........... I know how you feel - Reminds me of the 90,000 mile service I had done on my GLS.... :rolleyes5 :sad3:

[Spirit]

What I find particularly annoying is the side windows that won't shut at higher speeds ...... the safety mechanism cuts in because it thinks some kid's head or hand is stuck in the gap.


Easiest thing for that Richard is to open one of the other windows very slightly and then the offending window will shut - must be something about the air pressure above a certain speed ?

Jimbo - sorry to hear of all the troubles mate - but I would recommend changing the cambelt tensioner anyhow having heard many stories of them failing from Andy at AP Motors. Just get another credit card mate :-D

[Roadrunner]

what sorta speed do you drive that cause the wipers to lift? :rolleyes5
erm ... :headsc:



or is it generally very windy region? :D
Ah yes, that'll be it! :)

[Nick Mann]

what sorta speed do you drive that cause the wipers to lift? :rolleyes5


If you have no spoiler on your drivers side wiper and you don't get irritated by it lifting at speed, go and buy a less capable car!! :p

The last three cars I have bought have all had new wipers within a couple of weeks, and all for that reason! :$

Hope nothing else goes wrong, Jimbo. :sad3:

[wirdy]

Then I got a call saying they've fitted the new cambelt, but the hydraulic tensioner won't reset, so that's another £90 for a replacement.

Sounds expensive Jim.

Did you receive any advice from your garage regarding the water pump? My Ralliart man at Mitsi Darlington said it was worth doing at the same time, especially if the tensioner needed changing too. (spend-to-save?).

[HJM]

Jeez, Jimbo, what a nightmare - god, these cars are expensive :rolleyes5

Ours goes in on Saturday for a third opinion, but I don't think it will be as much as yours (unless the second opinion WAS right :lipsrseal ).

Worse come to worse, we'll have to pool cars to the Nurburgring to make it cheaper - as yours will be all up together, we bagsy you drive :laugh:

Hope it's all sorted mate.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for all the comments guys, it makes me feel better knowing I'm not alone :)

Pezz, the car's still at the garage tonight, it will hopefully all be ready tomorrow lunchtime. The fiasco with the lost wheel nuts delayed them quite a bit.....I've learnt something here too, apparently you can't change a timing belt while the wheels are still on ?!?

I honestly haven't dared add up the total bill, it's just too frightening, I desperately hope I can get the front discs replaced FOC, or at least skimmed. Wish I knew why they had done this so quickly as well....I wonder whether I'm washing my alloys too much :headsc: Is there are major "do" or a major "don't" when your cleaning big wheels that happen to have big discs behind them?

Wirdy, yeah that's a good point about the water pump, I'll ask about that and see what they say. Besides we seem to be replacing everything else in the engine bay so why not :rolleyes5

Physician, yeah right :laugh: ....actually thinking about it.......£600 is probably not a bad deal really!!?!?! The only thing that doesn't need replacing at the moment are the callipers....hmmm, cash or cheque?! :laugh:

Tomorrow is another day, hopefully one where the sun shines and the garage people go to work with a spring in their step, and that my VR4 is feeling like a new car again - I'll let you know how we get on :)

[Nick Mann]

I've learnt something here too, apparently you can't change a timing belt while the wheels are still on ?!?


Many of the pulleys the belts go round can be accessed from the wheel area on the offside. But the wheel needs removing first! I suffered the same a few years ago and now make sure that I leave the locking nut on the passenger seat when I drop the car off.

Hope today goes better than yesterday!

[Jimbo]

I suffered the same a few years ago and now make sure that I leave the locking nut on the passenger seat when I drop the car off.

Yeah, that's what I normally do to, completely forgot this time and look what's happened. I will keep learning these lessons the hard way :$

Today's going much better though. I've just come back from Xtreme where their service manager walked me over the car so I can see what's going on.

My front brake discs don't look like they were new 4 months ago, but I just wonder whether some heavy braking will clear the surface marks off - they're certainly nowhere near as bad as had been described to me on the phone.

Just waiting on the hydraulic tensioner at the moment, it's the only thing left to do, but the part has yet to arrive so that may well push this service into a 3rd day.

I had a look over the old cambelt as well, my god it almost looks new! No cracks or stress marks on it at all, well impressed. Not sure I would advice anyone to wait until 54 or 60 based on my experience, but clearly mine could have lasted a lot longer. You never really know until you take it off though, and for me I'm glad I did this just for the piece of mind if nothing else.

When I get the car back I'll take some pictures of the old cambelt and post them up so everyone can see.

Best news of the day - my cars booked in for it's ball joints, and Mitsi are paying :drunk:

[pezza]

Ahh, Some good news today eh Jimbo (make sure I spell it correctly this time :D )

So you will be racing type-R's again by weekend hopefully with Peace of Mind :-b

My cambelt, alternator and pulley belts had signs of wear n tear when they were replaced two weeks ago. But I try not to think about it now.. cud've been very dangerous and costly... :|

Are you ripping the nuts off a courtesy car at the mo?

Cheers

Peeez

[Jimbo]

Are you ripping the nuts off a courtesy car at the mo?

:D ;) Poor things going to need a service when I give it back, that's for certain.

It's an Alfa 156 1.9 JTD - very nippy and quite economical, but it's a bit light and lot looser than I'm used to.

[Jimbo]

Just had another phone call.....

They've told me that the gearbox fluid looked *very* new still, so suggested it would be pointless changing it.

I'm totally perplexed by this.....remember that when I asked for a flush to be done on the last service in September (after getting the "dreaded flashing N-light" on a hot summers day)? Well they only emptied and refilled the 3 litres in the sump on that occasion which is why I wanted them to do the job properly with a full flush this time........so how can 3 litres of 4 month old ATF mixed with 5.9 litres of gunk have the appearance of "clean"? Was it flushed in full last time and they just forgot to charge me for the other 12 half litres bottles of Dexron III? Have they emptied a completely different sump to a completely different component??? :rolleyes:

Even more perplexing is that they say they have no foolproof method for flushing the 8.9 litres in it's entirety and their standard process is just to drain and refill the sump: I described Kieran's patented method of running the engine with the tube disconnected that allowed gunk to spew out one end whilst topping up the ATF in the sump at the other......sounds logical to me, but the technician cringed at that thought. So the how on earth do Mitsubishi dealerships do it then? Surely the only way is to do what Kieran suggested :shrug:

Ahh, the garage have just rung me; they're confused too, they're going to double check. I'm scared now. :uhoh2:

[ritch_w]

Ahh, the garage have just rung me; they're confused too, they're going to double check. I'm scared now. :uhoh2:

is it Xtreme who are doing the service???

i thought they knew their @rse from their elbows where mitsubishis are concerned...... :rolleyes5

[Kieran]

Even more perplexing is that they say they have no foolproof method for flushing the 8.9 litres in it's entirety and their standard process is just to drain and refill the sump: I described Kieran's patented method of running the engine with the tube disconnected that allowed gunk to spew out one end whilst topping up the ATF in the sump at the other......sounds logical to me, but the technician cringed at that thought. So the how on earth do Mitsubishi dealerships do it then? Surely the only way is to do what Kieran suggested :shrug:

EH?!?!?! :rolleyes5 :rolleyes5 :wtf:

My method for gearbox flusing is based on the instructions in the Mitsubishi Dealership service manuals!!!

The only adaptation I've made is that rather than reuse the hose, I cut mine and replaced the length with a new bit. I also added fresh ATF to the sump whilst it was pumping the crappy stuff out of the [open] cooler line - The service manual says just to drain the sump and then pump out the system with NO topping up of the ATF during the operation!!! :eek: :wtf:

[Jimbo]

is it Xtreme who are doing the service???

i thought they knew their @rse from their elbows where mitsubishis are concerned...... :rolleyes5

It certainly is, and I rate them very highly - let's face it, they're the old Ralliart people, so if they don't know, nobody will.

Very confused by this though.....perhaps they're just not used to servicing auto-gearboxes, they said themselves they don't get many VR4's any more.

[Polabear]

Best news of the day - my cars booked in for it's ball joints, and Mitsi are paying :drunk:


Great news Jimbo amongst all the doom and despair ..... there is a VR4 God after all.... :bow:

[HJM]

Good to hear it may not be as bad as you thought :-b

And, as many people have already said, it'll be running like a new car once they've finished (did you need a new car :lipsrseal )

[Jimbo]

Thanks guys :bighug: Just got the rear discs/pads and the balljoints to sort in the next couple of weeks (fingers crossed) and I'll have myself one nice new ring-prepped VR4 :-b I've even ordered a new tow-hook cover ;)

You must be right, Sean - I prayed to mighty of God of VR4 last night, and it seems my call was answered :)

Kieran, I'm going to ask the Mitsi garage about a number of things when I take my car in to them next Wednesday. I'll see what there take on the ATF is, and show them the cambelt too (hopefully get an answer on whether it's 45K or 54K). I'm still not comfortable that the 4 year old ATF is gone, clean sump oil or not.

[Kieran]

Kieran, I'm going to ask the Mitsi garage about a number of things when I take my car in to them next Wednesday. I'll see what there take on the ATF is, and show them the cambelt too (hopefully get an answer on whether it's 45K or 54K). I'm still not comfortable that the 4 year old ATF is gone, clean sump oil or not.

If you want a copy of the manual showing them how to flush the ATF, let me know - especially if they give you some grief saying that all they do is drop the stuff in the sump! I know from my own experience that this isn't sufficient for a GLS, nevermind a VR-4!!! :rolleyes5


/Blimey, the soapbox is getting used a fair bit recently!:$

[Jimbo]

Cheers Kieran, :thumb1: that would come in very handy - do you have it to hand in electronic format?

Don't go to any trouble on my behalf, mate, but it would be interesting to see what Xtreme make of it if I can show them tomorrow morning when I pick the car up. Like I say, I rate them very highly, but a little education on the specifics of the Invecs-II to these EVO specialist couldn't go amiss :)

[Kieran]

Pop on MSN a second then, or PM me with a non-hotmail address. The file is in PDF - It's about 1mb. :)

[Jimbo]

Cheers Kieran, that'll come in very handy. Many many thanks :)

[Jimbo]

Well the cars back in my hands, and I must say it feels good. After the initial "wahh, ok so know I've been driving a 156 diesel for 2 days, but s**t this feels FAST!"-thoughts I started to pick up what felt different, and really it's one thing specifically; the steering.

I've obviously had a new PS belt fitted as part of the service, but the difference it makes is astonishing!!! The car just wants to centralise itself to dead centre on the steering when you let go in a straight line. This bit alone makes it feel like a new car :-b

Ok, so for the bad news. I'm still not quite ready to admit to myself I've just paid out a figure just over £1100, but I guess I have £300 of brake pads and £150 worth of "unforseen" part requirements in that too.

What I'm totally p**sed off about, and am kicking myself for not realising sooner is the bill for the basic service hidden amongst all the other bits I needed. I've only just worked this out about an hour ago after sitting down and discecting the bill.

Ok, so I was quoted £655 for the full service including parts, but was also previously quoted a £50 or £60 discount on this if my ATF fluid didn't need changing....still puzzled by this, but nevertheless they said it didn't, so I expected the bill to be £600ish for this area.

Total servicing bill? £714.41!!!

This also includes a 10% discount pre-VAT, so in reality the £600 has blown to £790-odd. Looking at the breakdown it's not hard to see why.....see if you can spot 2 glaring mistakes in the first 5 lines of the parts summary as they appear on the invoice:

Part - Qty - Price - %Disc - Total
Forte Engine Flush - 1 - £8.99 - 10.00 - £8.09
Service Kit - 1 - £11.73 - 10.00 - £10.56
1/2 litre AYC fluid - 13 - £3.99 - 10.00 - £46.68
Service Kit - 1 - £11.73 - 10.00 - £10.56
VR4 Air Filter - 1 - £14.07 - 10.00 - £12.66

[Legnum Boy]

Service Kit x 2 ??? :dozey:
Can't see the other mistake for the end of my nose... :(

[Jimbo]

Yep, that's one of them, but the other mistake is far more expensive one.....

The amount of AYC fluid used....this is usually 1.5ltrs, so 3 half-litre units, not the 13 they've charged me for :dozey:

[pezza]

Yep, that's one of them, but the other mistake is far more expensive one.....

The amount of AYC fluid used....this is usually 1.5ltrs, so 3 half-litre units, not the 13 they've charged me for :dozey:

Will you point this out to them?

So has the nitemare finally ended and everything sorted now?

CAn you drive the car at will now?

[Jimbo]

Trying to.....not having much luck with it so far. I've emailed and rung, but had no response from either yet.

Great garage, very thorough work, nice people, but very poor communication - that's my new appraisal after this week.

I'm convinced I've been overcharged somewhere around £100 mark - time will tell as to whether they a) reply to me at all, b) admit that they've overcharged, and c) do something about it.

The car's running great though which, let's face it, is the main thing :)

[Legnum Boy]

The amount of AYC fluid used....this is usually 1.5ltrs, so 3 half-litre units, not the 13 they've charged me for :dozey:

How much fluid would be needed for a complete flush?

[Jimbo]

How much fluid would be needed for a complete flush?

Well this is the second time I've had it changed and last time it was 1.5 ltrs. I wouldn't have known how much it takes to flush it, but I'd be staggered if it was 6.5 ltrs!

The last bill had 3 units of half litre pots, this one had 13 so I'm assuming the 1-key got knocked whilst typing up the bill :dozey:

[nick-f1]

Hi Jimbo I've had my AYC done twice now and both times they charged me for 1.5ltrs ( 3 x 0.5 ltrs) and on its service history its always been about that. The only difference is now the stuff is cheaper!........ Yes cheaper....... 2002 it was £26 for ayc fluid today its £16.