turbo change at home?

[gazmk2]

Hi guys.

My smoking issue, although not massive has led me to suspect the rear turbo seals are not in the best of healths. If the rear one is poorly then I would bet the front one is sure to follow so the best cure the way I see it is to replace both turbos.

I can get a pair of decent turbos from a year 2000 facelift legnum with a warranty (just your boggo 3 months type) for under £400.

My question is how difficult is changing both turbos likely to be for your average joe with a basic toolkit? Are the manifold studs likely to shear off one at a time leaving me a monumental headache? Any key differences between pre and facelift turbos? Approx how many man hours am I potentially facing?

There is a chance it could be my leaky front rocker gasket. I changed the rear (forgot to order 2!) and cleaned all the oil up from around the front which bizzarrely was the worst and the smoking habbit had all but stopped. But here I am some 4k miles down the line and it is back.

Cheers guys.

Gary

[Kryton]

If you fancy a trip to Norwich, I can supply 2x turbos & imagine I can get them fitted for a total of less than that. If you're interested send me a pm & I can get a price to fit

[Davezj]

smoking from where?
a leaky rocker gasket will not make smoke come from the exhaust and smoke from under the bonnet does not point to a dodgy turbo.
not quite sure what you mean from what you have writen in your first post.

[gazmk2]

Pm sent dude.

I just need to estalish if it definately the turbo seal. If the smoking returns once the front rocker gasket has been changed then it might be safe to assume it is.

It produces the goods with the turbos coming on very strongly around 2500rpm. They sound healthy and there is no smoke under acceleration at all. The smoke occurs after a bootfull and then when off the throttle with the engine at reasonably high revs (>5500rpm)

The front spark plug recesses were full of oil. The was oil all over the front rocker too. Once I had cleaned all this off and fitted new plugs the smoking seemed to stop for a while. This is making me suspect (and it was also suggested by Alan when he kindly came and checked the car out for me) that all this oil may have been leaking through to the bores and being burnt off.

[Kenneth]

With a bit of time and care you can change the turbos by undoing the vband coupling which holds the CHRA to the exhaust housing. Provided that compressor pipes, oil and water connections (these would have to be removed regardless anyway) are all disconnected, the turbo CHRA along with the compressor housing will just lift out.

[gazmk2]

smoking from where?
a leaky rocker gasket will not make smoke come from the exhaust and smoke from under the bonnet does not point to a dodgy turbo.
not quite sure what you mean from what you have writen in your first post.

Smoke from the exhaust on lift off after a heavy bootfull when the revs are dropping.

I had this problem a while ago. Check my first thread out.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?63848-smoke-when-lifting-off&highlight=smoke+lift

[aboo]

Sounds like turbo seals. Try lifting off going down hill. If there is a puff of smoke then more than likely the turbo seals are on there way out.

[gazmk2]

Yeah tried that. If you just tip down into a low gear and engine brake down a hill there is no smoke. But give it a bootfull and then do the same and there is plenty.

[Davezj]

Pm sent dude.

I just need to estalish if it definately the turbo seal. If the smoking returns once the front rocker gasket has been changed then it might be safe to assume it is.

It produces the goods with the turbos coming on very strongly around 2500rpm. They sound healthy and there is no smoke under acceleration at all. The smoke occurs after a bootfull and then when off the throttle with the engine at reasonably high revs (>5500rpm)

The front spark plug recesses were full of oil. The was oil all over the front rocker too. Once I had cleaned all this off and fitted new plugs the smoking seemed to stop for a while. This is making me suspect (and it was also suggested by Alan when he kindly came and checked the car out for me) that all this oil may have been leaking through to the bores and being burnt off.

ok so the spark plug seals have failed causing oil in the plug bores.
if your plugs are done uptight i would not have thought you would not get oil going into the cylinders from there.
but as you say lift off smoke is indicative of turbo seals failure.

you can buy kits to refurb your turbos yourself, i have done one of my spare turbos but not yet needed to fit it, i will have to do another one to make sure i have at least one pair that have benn refurbed so when my current turbos give up completely i can swap them out without too much hassle.

[gazmk2]

I thought turbos needed rebalancing after this kind of repair? I have come to the rapid conclusion that it probably is the turbo seal
Thankfully as I said earlier, all seems well for the most part, the turbos boost up nice and strongly at around 2500rpm. I hardly ever see smoke as with the car being tiptronic i dont engine brake at high revs.

It will presumably get worse as the miles pile on but it hasnt gotten amy worse in the 11,000 miles I have done in it since may.

[Davezj]

I thought turbos needed rebalancing after this kind of repair? I have come to the rapid conclusion that it probably is the turbo seal
Thankfully as I said earlier, all seems well for the most part, the turbos boost up nice and strongly at around 2500rpm. I hardly ever see smoke as with the car being tiptronic i dont engine brake at high revs.

It will presumably get worse as the miles pile on but it hasnt gotten amy worse in the 11,000 miles I have done in it since may.

If you refurb the turbos it is completly up to you if you get them balanced afterwards or not, i choose to scribe the compressor wheel, shaft and nut, and ensure they line up when i put them back together if they were balanced before i took them apart they should be balanced when they go back together.
i am prepaired to take that risk.

i have seen balancing services offered where they will balance the exhaust wheel and shaft and compressor wheel only they remove them from the cartridge but in the middle. put the to wheels and the shaft in there rig balance them, but thay have to then take the compressor wheel off to get the assembly out of there baancing rig, and in my view whats the point in that.

the only correct way to balance a trubo is to do it as a complete cartridge so both wheels stay on the cartridge after balancing has taken place. which some companies will offer but for a price.
as i say the choice is yours.

[adaxo]

This worth to watch about turbo balancing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMA5RFpGRbg)

[Davezj]

Yep watched that before.
Still wouldn't change my mind.

[gazmk2]

OK so it might not actually be my Turbo! I did that cure for the engine clatter by revving the engine for 15 seconds etc and after a while I started getting smoke when the engine was slowing down. This was from only 3krpm on no load. I checked the Turbo outlet pipework and there was not a drop of oil to be found.

Is this sounding more like valve stem seals?

[WOODY72]

Yep.

[Davezj]

When you say output pipework of the turbo do you mean the output of the compressor side of the turbo?

If so then that is only half the turbo. Oil can still be leaking from the exhaust side of the turbo and burning in the exhaust gases in the exhaust itself.
There is another reason for smoke as well, and that is a very rich mixture, which from my experience is a grey/black colour, but this is generally produced under acceleration.

[gazmk2]

This is definately blue smoke. Stinks of burning oil round the exhaust afterwards too. It doesn't overly concern me right now though as the car runs sweet as. The turbos are near silent and boost hard and for the majority of the time there is no smoke.

It will need doing eventually though I realise that but for now it has a list of other things to get done.

[Davezj]

I know what you mean mine has a growing list of things to do just to get it running ok. Never mind all the mods and extra things I have planned.
It all gets a bit much sometime working out what to do next.

[John TheAntique]

I think it's valve stem seals from what you say.

[swinks]

This is definately blue smoke. Stinks of burning oil round the exhaust afterwards too. It doesn't overly concern me right now though as the car runs sweet as. The turbos are near silent and boost hard and for the majority of the time there is no smoke.

It will need doing eventually though I realise that but for now it has a list of other things to get done.
Got recently the same issue like you.
After examination it's either valve stem seals (intake side) or hot side of turbo.
Because I'm doing engine and turbo upgrade soon, I'm not bothered as much.
Doing valve stem seals over fitted heads is difficult, but doable. You will need valve spring compressor kit, and air compressor adapter to pressurize cylinders. I'd also recommend you ONLY genuine stem seals :)

[Davezj]

Tomasz did you change your valve stem oil seals when you did your cam shafts.

[swinks]

Tomasz did you change your valve stem oil seals when you did your cam shafts.
Tricky question Dave. :)
Yes, I did.
No, I'm not sure if my smoking is related to valve stem seals because prior to cams fitting occasionally but very rarely (noticed only 3 times per whole year) I got puff of blue smoke on random, especially after long runs with trashing.
So, either:
- one or two of valve stems I've fitted sits incorrectly (I'm convinced all of them fitted nicely, but now not 100% sure)
- whilst removing old valve stem seals I did some damage to a surface of valve stems (scratch or so)
- new valve stem seals were poor quality (they looked identical to genuine ones, fitted nice and tight, etc...)
- new valve stem seals are alright, and under new conditions turbo seal had given up finally (some whistle can be noticed).

[Davezj]

That seems a pretty good, thought process, I suppose only time will tell.

Cheers for the info anyway.

[xmacax]

my turbo seals blew nw blowing smoke when i boost and has oil in turbo pipess and rear turbo not heaps but enuff to wipe away

[xmacax]

also both my turbos got broken bits were intercooler pipes bolt on to. do i buy cheap replacements sechond hands, or whats a good upgrade to do. will also do new pipeing and new front mount after wen got enuff cash