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Tam
01-03-2013, 04:31 PM
Hi all,

The turbos on smokey jo are in need of a rebuild so i have purchased a cheap set of ebay with the intention of having ago at rebuilding themas im a tight ass. I am still undecided upon the balancing side yet but will see how the build goes first. I have taken a photo at each stage to hopefully help anyone else who wants to give it a go, i am doing one turboe at a time.

There are some good videos on you tube with turbo rebuild that is titled 'How to rebuild a Turbo - Part 1 of 2' and then part 2.

The rebuild kits are going to be sourced from either Zage turbo's or NKK Turbos (who are on Ebay), i have spoken to both and they say they have kits suitable.

To start with you need to remove the V clamp that is holding the two halves together but prior to this i would remove the oil lines so that later when you need to remove the circlip you have the access required. When i removed the oil lines i marked them so that when i install them they should be in the correct orientation for when outting into the car.

Simply undo the nut and take of the clamp and the halves will need to be persuaded to seperate and this removes the turbine housing and hopefully you should now be able to see a clean centrifugal compressor, hopefully cleaner than mine.

Chris.W
01-03-2013, 05:26 PM
Any idea how you will tackle the balancing?
Do you not need a jig thingy for balancing the shaft?
I assume you wont be fidling with the compressor or impelor blades?

Interested to see how this works out for you. Good luck fella, hope it all go's well.

Kryton
01-03-2013, 05:44 PM
I'm sure someone on here had a rebuild kit for sale. Maybe Wodjno?

Davezj
01-03-2013, 07:47 PM
if you are NOT going to get the turbo balanced then you will need to mark the shaft, nut, compressor wheel with a scratch or dimple before you take it apart, so you can align them up when you put it back together. at least then you will know they are going back on in the same place as they came off, and the turbo was balanced when it was new.
As long as there is no damage to the turbine wheels and they have not changed size, shape, by crashing into the inner walls of the turbine housing. then it will probably be OK.

Tam
01-03-2013, 10:37 PM
Sorry my computer had a bit of a spat earlier trying to upload the photos. When it's finished it's tantram I'll get it sorted
Cheers
Marc

gazmk2
03-03-2013, 10:14 AM
Has your computer finished its tantrum yet?

Davezj
03-03-2013, 11:05 AM
I have only rebuilt one of my spare turbos, but not used it yet.
I finished the rebuild, but afterwards noticed what looks like a crack in the exhaust housing. It is on the inside between the exhaust port and the wastegate port. It is not a major one but it will probably get bigger with use. So I am not sure if I will use this one.

I found the best way to check for cracks is to soak the item in a solvent, something that will evaporate quite quickly, when you remove the item from the solvent and watch it evaporate any cracks will become visible because they will remain wet after the rest of the solvent as dried off.
This is due to the solvent being trapped in the crack and with a very small surface area to evaporate from it takes longer to dry, showing up the flaw in the metal. But you can only do this test on the stripped parts as a completed rebuilt turbo will have assembly lube in it, and the solvent will distorty the lube.

Just out of interest what are you going to use to replace the gasket between the cartridge and the compressor housing, there should be what looks like a very thin paper gasket in there. It fail apart when you dismantel the turbo.
Must other turbos seem to have a o-ring in that location but there is not enough room in our little hair dryers.

Also I would recommend a complete clean of all the parts including the cartridge oil and water ways. It is amazing much bigger they get when you put them through a parts washer. There will be loads of crud build up in there that restricts the flow of oil and coolant.
Also make sure you get some kind of pin into the cartridge and clean out the small holes that transfer the oil from the oil way to the bearing jacket, I would imagine these could bet blocked very easily.

Just a few of my thoughts.
I am no expert on this, just some logical thoughts.

Tam
05-03-2013, 10:30 PM
Hi All.....again,

Well hopefully my puter will continue to behave for the duration of this. I am currently at the stage of acquiring the rebuild kit just waiting for some answers. So i will write this with what i have done so far. Ill put a few pictures in each post with some comments of how i did it. When i get my kit whether from Wodjno, Zage or NKK i'll take some pictures.

You Tube Videos:
How to Rebuild a Turbo - Part 1 of 2
How to Rebuild a Turbo - Part 2 of 2


Sorry to repeat but here goes.....

Tam
05-03-2013, 10:38 PM
To start with you need to remove the V clamp that is holding the two halves together but prior to this i would remove the oil lines so that later when you need to remove the circlip you have the access required for your pliers. When i removed the oil lines i marked them so that when i install them they should be in the correct orientation for when routting into the car. When installing these oil lines will need to replace the copper washers just like with brake lines.

Simply undo the nut (10mm Nut) and take off the clamp, the clamp might need to be gently taped to release the clamp. The halves will need to be persuaded to seperate and this removes the turbine housing and hopefully you should now be able to see a clean centrifugal compressor, hopefully cleaner than mine. The entire turbine casing will remain in one place.

Tam
05-03-2013, 10:44 PM
So now will just have the impeller side with the turbine showing.

In the photo you can see the circlip that you need to remove to be able to get the centre components form within the casing and then in a different photo the circlip has been unseated.

The thin gasket that can be seen slightly lifted of the components is the gasket that Dave is speaking of and im awaiting a reply from NKK Turbo whether their kits have this. If not the Zage turbo looks to have this gasket unless i'm mistaken Dave.

Now you should just have the core componets seperated from both casings.

Tam
05-03-2013, 10:53 PM
Now as Dave mentions initially i was going to not get them balanced as i marked the impeller, nut and shaft with a pen. I felt very cunning (initially) as i did not want to score them due to the vibrations, speed and potential stress raiser created so i used a permanent pen (also thinking maybe hoping that the turbine would be keyed to the shaft). Unfortunatley its not keyed and my pen came off when i unthreaded the nut....bugger lol.

In balancing videos they grind away the nut but it appears on my core the nut seems unground and the other end seems to have been ground, so now i was thinking maybe not needing to be balanced so i'm still undecided at the moment but now thinking better to be safe than sorry, so we shall see.

To undo the nut i bolt the other end in a vice and simply undid the nut (it was not very tight to be honest) and then lifted off the impeller. After consulting Zage it appears my impeller is a superback due to the curve and not a flat back like others.

Next so that i can get to the bearings there is another circlip which needs to be unseated to be able to strip down the core.

Tam
05-03-2013, 11:00 PM
Once this circlip is removed the turbine shaft was able to be removed. To be honest i did this after the circlip but cant remember if i would have been able to do this prior to the circlip and looking at it i dont see why not.

Once this circlip is removed the cap needs to be unseated and i did this with a small flat blade screwdriver gently lifting it and going around the circumference until it came out of the core and then you can see the brass coloured bush inside. When looking at the brass plate you can see the gap between the centre bearing and the brass plate which i hope when i get the new kit it will remove this gap but i will not know until i get the kit.

On the Turbine shaft you can see the other brass coloured bearing and according to the youtube vids there is a circlip type seal near the impeller which is the seal that causes the turbos to smoke. Its the nearest one near the impeller and when i clean it all up i might be able to get a better picture of the seal.

Tam
05-03-2013, 11:05 PM
Under the cap that you remove with the screwdriver (very Gently) it look like it has a lip but this also comes apart and looks like a top hat with a brass part looking like a beak and the bearing in the middle (small top hat).

I dont know why the pictures aren't staying in order but it can be pieced together.

Before removing the brass coloured plate there is an o ring to be removed and then you are able to remove it and then th eother bearing can be seen that looks exactly like the one of the impeller shaft.

Tam
05-03-2013, 11:10 PM
So now im at the stage awaitng for the replacement parts and then giving the components a really good clean and a good visual check of the parts just like Dave has recommended prior to installing it all and rebuilding it.

The pictures show all the components laid out on my table in the order they were removed to ensure i dont mess it up when i rebuild them.

On an alternative note these turbos did not have an actuator with them and i will probably use the ones of my turbos still in the cars but does anyone have a set of actuators for sale and if not do evo ones fit and work on these?

When i get my kits i will rebuild them and hopefully let you all know how it goes.

I hope this has helped and i welcome any assistance given on this guide and if anyone has a question i will try and answer to best of my ability and hopefully some of the experts will step in and stop me breaking my turbos more lol

Badger_01
05-03-2013, 11:40 PM
Chuck everything that needs to be cleaned in the dishwasher

Davezj
05-03-2013, 11:56 PM
from the last pic in post 12, it looks like the turbo has been loosing oil past the oil seal on the exhaust side, if you look on the back of the heat sheild that sits behind the exhaust wheel you will probably see a load of hard burnt on carbon deposits which is what is left from the leaking oil.
unfortunately the pictures you have posted up are really small and i can't see any detail in them at all, they are no bigger than the ones that are shown in the posts. do you have bigger pictures.

yes the gasket i was talking about is the one in the first pic in post 10. the narrow thin gasket that is peeling up. i have made my own gasket to fit in that place, it is only be an air seal no oil in that location so it has to withstand boost pressure only. i measured the thickness of the original gasket and matched it up, with a slightly thinker gasket so when it gets fitted it will compress into the available space.

the kit i used only came with the bearings, the oil seals, the brass plate and the steel top hats and the inner bearing spring seats and the o-ring, not a great deal really so i had to clean up the rest of the parts and reuse them. this is not an issue as all these parts i needed to reuse do not get warn when the turbo is operation.

here is a tip, when you clean the oil seal slots out which you will need to do very well, the best thing to use is a broken piece of the oil seal, as you know it is exactly the correct width to fit in the slot without widening it when you do the scraping. just snap the old oil seal clip and the break point of the seal clip is nice and sharp and acts like a very small chisel/plane to clean the slot out completely.

Davezj
06-03-2013, 12:15 AM
yeh the dishwasher is a good option for cleaning if you don't have a parafin parts washer to hand.
but try to get the bit as clean as possible first or you could have your other half shouting at you.

make sure you use 3 or 4 tablets to disperse the oil fully, then when the parts come out of the dishwasher as soon as the cycle has finished the parts will be wet but will dry quickly due to the heat, you should be able to check the exhaust housing for cracks as the crack will remain wet for longer.

WOODY72
06-03-2013, 01:20 AM
Dishwasher is good for cleaning golf balls as well! :scholar: :happy:

Tam
06-03-2013, 09:02 PM
Well I have put engine cases in the oven before to change the main bearings on my mx bike a couple of times but I think dishwasher for the turbos could break the horses back...

John TheAntique
06-03-2013, 09:32 PM
Horse?? Do you mean cow ?

Tam
06-03-2013, 10:50 PM
Hi Dave yeah I can put bigger ones into my profile for you to look at. What's the biggest size photos you can have in profile or post?

WOODY72
06-03-2013, 11:04 PM
horse?? Do you mean cow ?

pmsl

swinks
06-03-2013, 11:26 PM
Oh... no! Tam how are you? I can see chopped arm and hand still attached to a turbo wheel. Are you allright?
:) :) :)

Tam
06-03-2013, 11:39 PM
Haha John and graham you would not say that to her face haha, but she'd let me anyway but I do have access to a parts washer will just need to get some paraffin.
Regarding the arm it's okay I just buried the body in the garden. Will just need to find someone else for the rebuild lol
Marc

Davezj
07-03-2013, 09:20 PM
You can get parafin from B&Q from the gardening section, it is used for green house heaters. It is not to expensive, it is about £6 for 5L.

Tam
17-05-2013, 12:28 PM
Update:

Well i have received the kits from ZAGE Turbos and their link is:

http://www.zageturbo.com/pro/proindex2_show.asp?title_kind_1=Wheel / Rebuild Kit&title_kind_2=Rebuild Kit&pro_kind_1=Rebuild Kit&pro_kind_2=MITSUBISHI&select_sn=KP-002&k_type=類型B&sn=pro_sn00636&proname=TD025 TD03 SUPERBACK

I bought these and they cost me $35 each set and then $30 postage and i dealt with a very nice lady called Elma who was very very helpful. When i get back to he garage ill take a photo of the kit.

Just undecided at the minute what to do about the balancing going to contact some places to see if they will just do the balancing, wish i had marked it properly and not thought the impeller would be keyed to the shaft.

Marc

Tam
17-05-2013, 12:32 PM
the link does not seem to work properly to get to the kit go to 'Rebuild Kits' and then the TD25 and TD03 Superback Kits with part number GRBK-ZM16-0100.

Sorry

Marc

Davezj
17-05-2013, 01:29 PM
that looks like a nice full kit, you can get partial kits and just clean the other bits which are cheaper but, for the money you can't complain at those prices, is that total shipping cost of $30 or is that each kit, say i bought 10 kits would it still be $30ish for shipping, or $300.

nice find.

Tam
17-05-2013, 01:33 PM
Hi Dave
it was 30 dollars for the one parcel. Looking forward to getting started on the build, find someone to balance them and then get them back on the engine. Tgen I can throw it back in the car and then ill be leggie mobile again and I can't blinkin wait.
Marc

Davezj
17-05-2013, 01:42 PM
when you stipped the turbo you can mark/scratch the nut, compressor wheel and shaft, with a scribe, so it can go back together as it came out of the factory, and it should still be balenced.

Tam
17-05-2013, 09:18 PM
Yeah Dave that's what I'm hoping with the next ones I strip lessons learned from the first ones. Also with my turbos I know they were only smoking so hopefully fingers crossed they will be back together within the next week or two. Along with rebuilding my kxf engine....so many projects
Marc

HPRULZ
17-05-2013, 10:10 PM
/thankyou nice one Tam good piccys now I know how many bits I will have to lose when I rebuild my turbos wiv me big fat fingers!

Kev

pixelplay
18-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Hey Marc, if you want I can create a PDF for you of the rebuild process. For the pics we could use google docs for sharing pics. I have all the software here to do the rest as its pretty much what i normally do for a living.

Tam
18-05-2013, 12:23 PM
Yeah that sounds cool. Shall I take more photos as I rebuild and then do it into a PDF at the end. Are you a clever computery type, I can turn mine on and off haha. I can try put full size ones into my album but not sure what the max size I can upload is?
Marc

Tam
18-05-2013, 12:23 PM
Sorry us google docs easy to do for sharing?

pixelplay
01-06-2013, 01:29 PM
Hey Tam looking forward to seeing your turbo build hows it all coming along. Mine is supposed to come back this week but I am purchasing another engine to go with it ;) The old engine just to sludged to bother with anymore. I will keep it as a spare and rebuild it after the new engine is in the car. Let us all know how your getting on buddy and best of luck with it all.
Regards Bruce

disco-ian
26-08-2013, 09:08 AM
Just read through this whole post. Did you get the rebuild finished and fitted. How did the balancing go?

Tam
26-08-2013, 10:45 PM
Hi all,

Well the engine is back in the car and it even runs of which I am chuffed for my first car engine change. Could not have done it without the resource library and friends who helped. Hopefully it will be going for its MOT this week I'm hoping it will pass with the exhaust, decat and filter on but I'm not holding much hope.

With regard to the turbos, so far so good but I need to use them for a while to see if the problem has been fixed. I got them balanced in the end by CR Turbos and glad I did or it was that I was not accurate enough with my mark. I will get pictures up and try to do an document which will then be PDF by Bruce and then put in the library when I get a chance. Regarding those Zage kits they are excellent but the only drawback is the nut does not fit, its threaded incorrectly but Zage are now aware and are looking into remedying this but no timeframe was anticipated but I supplied them will loads if info about the car and everything do we shall see.

Here's hoping to see you all at an event soon in smokey jo soon.

Marc

Davezj
08-12-2015, 10:55 PM
adding to a thread from the dead.
Here is an ARD video for rebuilding a TD04HL to a 19T compressor wheel and housing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ndPYmfQuXU