notchy/crunchy gear change, 1st to 2nd

[adaxo]

Basically title say most, got quite crunch while change gears from 1st to second in anger /rally:curtain:, weird is that I've got this for ages in my previous gbox and just ignore this but after recent change (two weeks ago) to different box it is exactly the same, so it makes me wonder, is that possible to have two units with same problem?? or there are some adjustments to do? linkages or something else?



btw which man gbox oil is on top list to use these days? what do you use and are happy with?

[Kenneth]

first thing to try is the gearbox oil. I believe you want to try the Amsoil MTG.

If your synchros are stuffed or someone has damaged the engagement teeth then there is nothing you can do but manage it by trying to rev match as much as possible when shifting agressively.

Problem is that the gearboxes are generally getting on in age now and the chance of finding one where someone hasn't been abusing 1st and 2nd for launching, helis or whatever is getting low.

So, cheap option is try an oil change. After that you will need to strip it down and find out what is wrong.
One thing to keep in mind is that if it is a worn synchro (or even just the wrong oil) and you keep crunching it into gear you will also wear the engagement teeth meaning you will never be able to get a nice shift without changing the gear and/or the engagement collar.

[adaxo]

That's bad, I was hoping that it's some kind of adjustment needed, cause is the same 'problem' on two different boxes, but, as you say, will try to change oil to AMS first and then see what's happen, is not occur all the time, only on quick shifting, sometimes if I press clutch twice b4 change, it will change smother but is not very good way to do it while you do some traffic lights GP :-)

[Davezj]

wasn't there a known warn shift linkage bushing thread on here some time ago where a £15 bushing could solve some kind of shifting issues.
i did not pay too much attention to it as not something i have, a manual gear box.

[Davezj]

this wa the thread i was thinking of

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?64749-Sticky-manual-gear-lever-solved&highlight=shift+linkage+bush

but looking at it again i don't think it is the same issue.

[adaxo]

Yes Dave, thanks, something ring a bell but could not find it, will try this, hope its help/rally

[c0xxy]

Happy days, my gearbox seems notchy, 1,2 and reverse. Im running castrol something or other, gl4 only. Also have bearings and not rubbers on the linkage.
I'm hoping its due to clutch needing bleeding a bit better but doubt it.
Would replacing above mentioned bits be an ideal time to use evo bits?

Cheers
Ash

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using Tapatalk 2

[adaxo]

Dont know yet, I got ball bearing as well, will try this thingy from mlr and see


btw my reverse is crap too, always been (on both gboxes)

[Nick Mann]

My gearbox had a dodgy 1st to 2nd, and a tricky reverse engagement on my previous car. Using Amsoil MTG, vacuum bled clutch lines etc. I have now got the same box in my current car (same lines, same clutch pedal, same linkage, same lever) and the gear changes are much better. I am still using MTG. The only differences are the clutch - was stock, now competition clutch stage 2 and flywheel, and the clutch master cylinder - I damaged mine so bought a new one from Camskill.

I have no idea which made the difference, but I suspect I have either managed to bleed the system better this time, or the master cylinder is working better this time.

[mike74]

Is your clutch biting point quite low down? might be the clutch pedal needing adjusted...

[c0xxy]

Is your clutch biting point quite low down? might be the clutch pedal needing adjusted...

Who's that to, lol.
Mine was about a 3rd from the floor, I've adjusted the pedal to what i think is removing all the slack and it bites right at the top now, not to keen on that but still same gear change feel.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using Tapatalk 2

[c0xxy]

Dont know yet, I got ball bearing as well, will try this thingy from mlr and see


btw my reverse is crap too, always been (on both gboxes)

What's this thingy from mlr? Sounds clever

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using Tapatalk 2

[adaxo]

this thingy :-ished: http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=250712

[c0xxy]

ooo, tis clever. i dont remember seeing that bush when i was faffing with mine :undecided

[MarkSanne]

I've got the same thing with 1st gear on both Galoons. On the vr2 I used MTG and then accidentally bought MTF. First I didn't think there was any change but after a few thousand kms the 1st gear is silky smooth. On my recently bought V6 Galoon I now have MTG but in the near future I will switch it for Amsoil MTF too.

[Davezj]

didn't Don AMSoil do a good post recently explaining the reasons why you don't use GL5 oil and only GL4 compliant, don't even use GL4/5. it was something to do with viscosities and not allowing the syncmesh to engange correctly causing notchy gear changes.

i am not saying this is the issue it was just makes commect about swapping the oil and getting better gear shift,

off he toddles to try and find it............

ok here is the thread, i can remember how to link to post inside a thread, but it is post 10
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?54482-Amsoil-Christmas-New-Year-discounts&p=607335&viewfull=1#post607335

post 10 quote

"The gearbox oil you need for a normal syncro gearbox is MTG 75w-90. This oil is rated at GL4 which means that it will allow the syncro rings to bite on the hubs for better and quicker engagement and gear changes. The 'tougher' 75w-90's like SVG will resist being squeezed out of the way (exactly what you want in a differential) which will make the gear change slow or baulk. If the gearbox has cold change problems a better choice may well be the trick MTF which although a top gearbox oil is so outside the box (pun intended) on oil grades that it has an engine oil grading of 5w-30. This has now become our best selling gearbox oil.
So its MTG if all is well and MTF if you have problems.
Remember don’t force a gearbox, I have yet to find an oil, even from Amsoil, that can straighten or put metal back on selectors and teeth, I leave that for others to claim! Amsoil have been producing the very best gearbox oils in the world for many decades now. We have and do supply top racing teams who find that the difference is noticeable in both performance and survivability. Of those we can mention Jaguar Calloway Tyrell Jordan and Benetton come quickly to mind."

hope this helps

[elnevio]

Top find, Dave! :thumbsup:

I was just having a look on Don's website when I saw the 5w-30 spec for MTF! :o

Great feedback from Mark there too. /yes

I guess that MTF is to manual 'boxes like ATF is to auto 'boxes! :afro:

[Davezj]

hope some of the guys above give it a go and report back with any updates, as this seems to be a comon issue amongs manual boxes.

[adaxo]

hope some of the guys above give it a go and report back with any updates, as this seems to be a comon issue amongs manual boxes.

Yeah, definitely worth a try, nice find Dave, thanks

[Davezj]

it was mark that jogged my memory about that thread, i am sat at home with my leg up and nothing to do, so it is only right i do something constructive.

[adaxo]

MTF ordered, now just waiting game

[elnevio]

MTF ordered, now just waiting game

No probs? The only quantity I could see on the Performance Oils website was for 19 Litres at £220! I mean, that's a good price, but it's also rather a lot of MTF! :rolleyes4

[adaxo]

No probs? The only quantity I could see on the Performance Oils website was for 19 Litres at £220! I mean, that's a good price, but it's also rather a lot of MTF! :rolleyes4

Yeah I try Don first but due to lack of stock I ordered from here
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1051-amsoil-synthetic-manual-transmission-fluid-mtf.aspx

[amsoil]

Opies are out but will take your order (you can scream at them for the next 4-5 weeks rather than me) I think I may have a few bottles left from a dealer of mine who folded but they have grubby finger marks on them, I'll have a look and see how many I have like this.

[adaxo]

amsoil, you predict the future, part of email received today from opie

:ranton:


I regret that the following part s are currently out of stock with no confirmed lead time from Amsoil themselves:

why they list things for sale and then cant supply it !!!??? time wasters :censored: :furious4:

:ranton:

Don, if you got some (three botles) of MTF, not to bother about state of packaging, pls PM me price

[elnevio]

predict the future

/haz

[adaxo]

/haz

Its probably not in English, is it? :D

[elnevio]

Its probably not in English, is it? :D

Perfectly fine! It was more about the way this panned out, exactly as forecast! :)

[amsoil]

amsoil, you predict the future, part of email received today from opie

:ranton:



why they list things for sale and then cant supply it !!!??? time wasters :censored: :furious4:

:ranton:

Don, if you got some (three botles) of MTF, not to bother about state of packaging, pls PM me price


You have been PM'd :whistle:

[c0xxy]

this thingy :-ished: http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=250712

i was lucky, gearbox has this fitted already!

[adaxo]

I just received today three bottles of orange juice /woot2 (AMS MTF) from Don amsoil /thankyou, tomorrow will change comma ****e and we see what's what

[Davezj]

Adam, i will see you tomorrow moring if you are at work, i am popping in to do one more engine mount for ian, i can only lay my hands on 3 of them but that is better than nothing. will be good to see if it makes the difference we all hope for all the manual boys having issues.

i will probably bob round about 10am, i have spoken to karl to conform.
i am also hoping to refurb my spare alloys over this weekend to get some tyre fitted next week.

[adaxo]

Yeach, come in tomorrow, will have a nice XC90 with V8 under bonnet to sort LPG out, this could be fun/pan


BTW I don't expect miracles straight after oil change, this may take few hundreds miles to lube properly, I remember when I changed on one of my first Galonos to Red Line, straight after change was not a difference at all, but improved dramatically after few hundreds miles.

[c0xxy]

BTW I don't expect miracles straight after oil change, this may take few hundreds miles to lube properly, I remember when I changed on one of my first Galonos to Red Line, straight after change was not a difference at all, but improved dramatically after few hundreds miles.

makes sense, my change has gone nice and smooth now. done just over 200 mile since fitting.

[adaxo]

makes sense, my change has gone nice and smooth now. done just over 200 mile since fitting.

Sorry for being thick, but what did you fit? oil??:stars:

[c0xxy]

Gearbox. Mine was an auto.
Gear change was horrendously notchy for about 50/60 miles, had me panicking a bit. But seems all good now. Just few clutch cylinder issues I think

[adaxo]

Oil changed yesterday, drive car for about 30 miles since, so far, shifting is much lighter than used to be, and is like 'two stage' engagement now, something like, at any gear, one 'click' following next lighter 'click' while engaging, a bit odd.

Is it help with shifting in 'anger'?? don't know yet, didn't have opportunity yet to teach a lesson some bloody boy racers /haz

[low_vr4]

What was the outcome?

[adaxo]

Its been a slightly better but definitely not fix problem, gears become less crunchy but still not perfect.
Actually I just changed oil in my mazda yesterday for AMSoil MTF and its definitely better, but it was not bad b4, change it only as a service book suggest.

[Subaru ETA]

I found that the amsoil MTF did bugger all for my gearbox - made it worse to be honest. Castrol VMX was the best for mine

[low_vr4]

I found that the amsoil MTF did bugger all for my gearbox - made it worse to be honest. Castrol VMX was the best for mine
Was that vmx-m 75-85?

[amsoil]

VMX is a GL4 gear oil and spec for the box, MTF is not spec for the box MTG is. MTF can be used when a gearbox has wear that makes gear changes difficult , maybe impossible when cold and notchy when fast. Its good and better on the pocket than a gearbox replacement or rebuild.
VMX is not available in the uK to my knowledge.

[low_vr4]

VMX is a GL4 gear oil and spec for the box, MTF is not spec for the box MTG is. MTF can be used when a gearbox has wear that makes gear changes difficult , maybe impossible when cold and notchy when fast. Its good and better on the pocket than a gearbox replacement or rebuild.
VMX is not available in the uK to my knowledge.

I am purchasing gearbox oil at the moment - Was looking into the Redline m90 stuff? mine is tough when cold and notchy when changing fast. Amsoil is pretty hard to get here in NZ.

[Nick Mann]

I have tried the Redline when Don couldn't get me any MTG. In my box Amoils MTG was better, but Redline was better that the comma stuff which was the only locally available GL4.

[low_vr4]

Anyone tried the REDLINE OIL MT-85 75W85? This is what i am looking at getting.

[Nick Mann]

It was MT-90 that I used. IIRC that was the one that said GL4. IT seems to be a good oil, it worked much better than the cheapo brand. Just not quite as good as the Amsoil for me. I have heard people who said that their boxes worked better with the MT-90 than MTG.