EOI: Solid alloy or urathane Subframe bushings

[Adam.Findlay]

Just putting it out there. Who is intrested in a full subframe bushing kit.

Scott and I are in the process of removing standard bushings from spare subframes scott has. We are going to measure them up and will be making some new ones from either alloy or urathane. (probably both so I can test alloy and if its far too noisy and if it is )
There are 6 bushes for the front subframe and although we have not removed the rear subframe yet I think there are four securing the subframe to the car along with the two diff mount bushings

I will make the first set and then update thread with and aproximate kit price dependant on material cost and machine time required to turn them up.

Kenneth
swinks

[swinks]

Provisionally I'm in.
But I think urethane bushing is a way to go. Both subframes require some play, with alloy stiff joint that may have deteriorating effect for other elements in chassis..

[Adam.Findlay]

cool will put you down as a maby for urathane.

I personally swing toward solid mounting the subframes as suspention bushings should provide more than enough dampening from impact loading. For the solid mounts i plan to machine a grove into the top to take a big rubber o-ring which should minimise any noise transfered to the chassis.

also considering changing the thickness of the top halves of the subframe-to-body bushings to adjust the subframe-to-body clearance to adjust the rollcenter of the car for further handling advantages. provided that moving the subframe closer to the body is possible.

[Kenneth]

If the price is reasonable, solid for me. I have been planning on doing this myself at some stage but time has been a factor for me :P

Can you also make solid diff mount bushings while you are at it? No point in half arsing it.

Use a solid bushing with a thin urethane (rubber would be better) washer.

Just sorted a new alignment person (after having moved over a year ago) who seems pretty good. Said that our subframes have a tendency to move a bit when thrashed. Would be better if they didn't (so long as the alignment was all OK, of course.) My car was running some thrust, which he managed to eliminate (Among a couple of other alignment issuse). I'm hoping to get even better fuel economy now :)

[Subaru ETA]

I know a lot of people wouldn't really care but I will put it out there - solid mounted subframes make the car a little bit average for everyday use!

A mate of mine did it to his nissan and he ended up making it a dedicated track car just coz it was so hard, creaky and noisy lol

[Adam.Findlay]

If the price is reasonable, solid for me. I have been planning on doing this myself at some stage but time has been a factor for me :P

Can you also make solid diff mount bushings while you are at it? No point in half arsing it.

Use a solid bushing with a thin urethane (rubber would be better) washer.

Just sorted a new alignment person (after having moved over a year ago) who seems pretty good. Said that our subframes have a tendency to move a bit when thrashed. Would be better if they didn't (so long as the alignment was all OK, of course.) My car was running some thrust, which he managed to eliminate (Among a couple of other alignment issuse). I'm hoping to get even better fuel economy now :)

Yes will be doing diff mount bushings too. as mine are shot.

that was my other idea but accurately slicing rubber or urathane into a thin enough washer will be difficult. maby a small diameter oring on the inside of the bushing near the bolt and another near the other edge. will provide the same noise/vibration dampening effect.

After pulling the stock bushes out I can see how far they would be able to flex under hard cornering etc. one of the bushings is just a lump of rubber 50mm round, they have alot of flex in them. (some were bending quite far when scott and I were pressing them out.)

SubaruETA yeah we know it will be noisy thats why Im thinking about adding in O-rings/rubber washers to dampen some vibration out. ive driven some cars with pillowball upper adjustable suspention and alloy top hats and lotsof noise was transferred to the chassis. where my teins have only a small rubber o-ring on the top hat and rubber bushings not pillowball and its not noisy at all.

[c0xxy]

very interested

[Adam.Findlay]

Righto sofar its

Scott (Alloy)
Munkeywrench (Alloy)
Kenneth (Alloy)
Me (Alloy)
c0xxy (Alloy)
Carl "patryn999" (Alloy)
Swinks (Alloy)
Mark4 (Alloy)
Oblivion (Alloy)
Colin Wiltshire (Alloy)

also @SubaruETA there are alot of cars that have solid mounted subframes from standard. MX5's i beleive the rear subframe at least is solid mounted all vibration dampening is done soely by the suspension bushings. tony (munkeywrench) mentioned something about the late model evos 7+ having solid mounted subframes also.

[Kenneth]

that was my other idea but accurately slicing rubber or urathane into a thin enough washer will be difficult.

Get or make some tube / pipe of the right diameter, sharpen one end and use it as a punch on some old rubber tyre tubes.

[c0xxy]

alloy preferred here

[Adam.Findlay]

Get or make some tube / pipe of the right diameter, sharpen one end and use it as a punch on some old rubber tyre tubes.

your an ideas man kenneth!

[Subaru ETA]

Off topic but mx5 and rx8 use a brace which runs the length of the car to compensate for any harshness :)

[Patryn999]

Might as well add me to the list for alloy+oring. I'm throwing a bit at the poor subframe now, so that flex is probably there haha.

[Adam.Findlay]

sweet. will update when ive made one set. and see how they fit.

[Adam.Findlay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yOz--DIuIc

found this illustrates the point quite well i think.

also all the bushes are out. will hopefully be turning up and test fitting the first set next weekend or the weekend after.

[swinks]

Just little word of advice to all who get solid aluminium bushing...
Highly likely you will need to upgrade following:
Rear end, in example:
- rear arms bushing to urethane (top hard compound)
- rear hub carrier bushing as above
- struts and springs for hard one
The same in front.
Also replace drop links with upgraded ones, i.e. rose joint ones.

[Colin Wiltshire]

ok, after watching that, I'm now interested. in the solid mounts

[Adam.Findlay]

just bought some alloy today to make the first set. was pretty cheap compared to the price of urathane
the alloy was 70nzd for 700mm long 63.5mm diameter
where the urathane was well over 120 nzd for 50mm round 300mm long.

[scott.mohekey]

I'm keen for Alloy too now, after seeing that video.

We should probably mention that you can't install these with the subframes on the car, so it is quite a big job to do. Also, even once you have the subframes off, you will have a hard time getting the old bushes out without some sort of air jack hammer or something. The shape of the subframes makes it pretty much impossible to get them out in a shop press.

[scott.mohekey]

Oh, and we can confirm the total number of bushes now. There's 6 on the front subframe, and 10 in the rear (four for the subframe mounts, four for the diff mounts, and two for the leading arms).

[Kenneth]

Now hurry up ffs! /haz

just bought some alloy today to make the first set. was pretty cheap compared to the price of urathane
the alloy was 70nzd for 700mm long 63.5mm diameter
where the urathane was well over 120 nzd for 50mm round 300mm long.

[scott.mohekey]

Now hurry up ffs! /haz

We'll probably be machining them up this weekend.

[Adam.Findlay]

when it comes to fitting them i will be burning the old rubber mounts out instead of trying to remove them like scott and i did on sunday.

and yes first set hopefully be made this weekend

[scott.mohekey]

there's still the metal sleeves to get out.

[Adam.Findlay]

once the rubbers gone its easy to cut them out

[scott.mohekey]

Yeah.

[swinks]

OK, Adam, to save you hassle I'll take definitely aluminium one.
Anyway I have already stiff suspension, just need to think seriously about drop links :)

[Mark 4]

I'll be interested in a set if they are not too expensive.

[Oblivion]

I'll be interested in a set if they are not too expensive.

Likewise :)

[Davezj]

do you have any pictures of were the bushes go in the front subframe, i have removed mine before and i don't remember there being any bushes in the subframe itself were it mount to the chassis.
but i have a really bad memory and it was a long time ago.
pics would be really helpful, to jog my memory.

oh yes there are some on the sticky up arms at the front and in the bolts at the back.
i had completely forgoten about them.

[Adam.Findlay]

scott will have to upload pics as the subframes we butchered to get the standard mounts out in once piece are at his place not mine.
hopefully get some time on the lathe friday so i will see how long it takes to make a set and add some labour to materials cost and update thread

also updated the post with the list of intrested persons on it. 10 so far so looks like it will be alot of machine time ahead

[c0xxy]

any news on these?

[scott.mohekey]

At least one set is made and sitting on my bedroom floor, waiting to be pressed into sub frames. The front subframe I'm using is at the workshop though so Adam can measure up the next set.

[Kryton]

Subscribing

[c0xxy]

Any idea on price yet?

[scott.mohekey]

I'll let Adam answer that one as he's putting all the hard work in to making them.

[Adam.Findlay]

Price Ill say around the 250-300 NZD mark +shipping for a full set of all 6 bushes for the front subframe, all 4 diff mount bushes and the 4 rear subframe bushes.
however the time to make a set could be a while as they do take a day or two on the lathe to turn them up and I often don't have a huge ammount of spare time the co-insides with access to the lathe.
although I currently have done one set for scott and have started 4 more sets for Carl, Kenneth, Tony and I. After those are done i will make a few more and once they are completed sell the finished product instead of taking orders and taking weeks to complete them.
if your interested just say so on here and when the next set is complete I will PM you on a first in first served basis.

also scott could you post a pic of the set you have? I dont have any pics and for some reason my pic uploader wont let me upload anything recently

[Oblivion]

Would these do the same / similar job? They are available for our cars.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2011/06/car_life_gt_gt_fitting_rigid_collars_to_the_gt_r/

[gazmk2]

Put me down for the solid ones dude! Just long as it doesn't cost the earth anyway!

[Adam.Findlay]

Would these do the same / similar job? They are available for our cars.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2011/06/car_life_gt_gt_fitting_rigid_collars_to_the_gt_r/

rigid collars are completly different thing again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWyUD6UXfog
they take up the slop between the bush and the bolt, where as the solid bushes eliminate the deflection of the subframe under cornering/accel/decel loads due to the stock rubber bushings deforming.

Hopefully I can get some accurate measurements of the studs from the spare chassis scott has so I can undersize the bolt holes in the bushings to eliminate the need for rigid collars.

Unfortunatly this has been on a go slow due to lack of spare time, as well as the parting tool breaking. hopefully get this cranking again in the next few weeks.

[Colin Wiltshire]

Still interested, depending on total cost.

Also, I assume same as those collars, that these will align the sub frame in the same way?

[MunkyWrench]

bump.

im still in. dont care about the rubber washer thing. i'm good with all solid.

if you have spare subframes you probably have spare arms... and i have the prothane eclipse poly kits (arms&knuckles not subframes) to test out. same problem here. no time. some sort of arrangement, maybe?

EDIT: i'm in for the whole lot, especially the diff mounts for the open diff casing.. mine not so good.

do you need to clear up with people what diff they have or is it one size fits all?

that video is good. both ways are fine but you cant have both.

[Adam.Findlay]

bump.

im still in. dont care about the rubber washer thing. i'm good with all solid.

if you have spare subframes you probably have spare arms... and i have the prothane eclipse poly kits (arms&knuckles not subframes) to test out. same problem here. no time. some sort of arrangement, maybe?

EDIT: i'm in for the whole lot, especially the diff mounts for the open diff casing.. mine not so good.

do you need to clear up with people what diff they have or is it one size fits all?

that video is good. both ways are fine but you cant have both.

I have 3 sets underway. just got really bogged under with exams and other commitments between last update and now. hopefully get some lathe time next weekend and finish a set or two off. especially now I have a propper parting tool.

Umm i dont have spare arms unfortunatly, but my car is in pieces currently so can test fit to that, then reimburse you for the cost, or remove them and send them back and purchase my own.

Well the bushings im making are
4 x diff mount bushings.
4 x rear sub frame bushings
3 x Front sub frame bushings

and AYC and Open diff casings both use the same mount points. only difference would be if someone has Super AYC which requires 10mm spacers between the bushings and the diff, on the back two mounts

[Adam.Findlay]

some pics of 4/6 of one set of front subframe bushes
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/Adam-Findlay/20130722_000323.jpg
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/Adam-Findlay/20130722_000229.jpg

[Macca]

I don't suppose you made any diff mounts in the Urethane?

[Colin Wiltshire]

Are these still being done?

[Adam.Findlay]

I don't suppose you made any diff mounts in the Urethane?

nope never did any in urethane


Are these still being done?

I have 3 unfinished sets. just ended up running out of time to do it all.
I should really get back into it and finish a few sets off.