Completely fed up with brakes...

[ileonc]

Yep, my VR4 is eating front brake discs. No surprise there!!

Its a great car, and I like it, but the only thing I have is the lack of confidence with the brakes. I don't brake hard anymore since I don't want them to overheat and end up in a wall. I'm close to getting rid of the car, since what is the point of having 4x4 twin turbo V6 when stopping is a problem?

I've tried the usual stuff of replacing the fluid, replacing the discs with 3rd party (twice, the last time drilled and grooved), replacing the pads, stripping and cleaning the calipers. The pads are not dragging on the disc, I've changed pad compounds as well. There is air getting to the discs.

I had lined up a set of front Brembo brake calipers and discs from an Evo 8, but realised I had to get the hubs replaced since I have a pre-face lift VR4, so that was a no go.

The discs are warped, I've had all three sets checked at my mates local engineering firm (thats 3 sets of front brake discs in a 12 month period), they had no reason to lie (I wasn't getting them skimmed).

Now I only pootle around, not really getting on the gas much since I don't know if it will stop, and if it does whether the discs will be in any shape afterwards.

One of the things I want to know is how I can fix this? Do I have to get callipers and discs from another model of Mitsubishi to fix this?

The various people who bought their VR4's new, didn't they complain to Mitsy when after a couple of sessions of hard braking their discs were warped?

Does anyone else have this problem of constantly warping front discs?

[ritch_w]

i think the evo iv to vii brakes fit but not sure - im sure someone with the conversion will give you the correct info

the other thing is the ferodo pads / disks combi from woodford(?) garage - in the members section that the guys rave about - do search etc

im sur ethe brakes issue can be resolved and normal service will be resumed :D

[bernmc]

I'm not a brake guru, but it sounds like there is something else the matter with your car. I wouldn't expect three sets to warp in such a short time under normal conditions... imbalanced tyres and wheels, loose steering linkages, sticking caliper sliders or hydraulics, sticking master cylinder?

Do you check your discs for trueness with a dial guage when you install? Powerstop who do a lot of EBC stuff suggest anything worse than 2/1000ths of an inch or 0.05mm will significantly shorten the life of the disc.

Even uneven torqueing of the wheel nuts can potentially warp the disc.

My old Jag XJR chewed up a couple of sets of discs - turned out to be front suspension bushes and a big ding in one of the alloys!

[Jimbo]

Both AP Racing and Brembo discs/pads are an option. H7 has Brembos IIRC, and I have the APs.

AP officially don't do any brake upgrades for the VR4, but as Ritch says, EVO 4 to 7 upgrades will fit perfick'

[Nick Mann]

When you brake hard to a stop, do you leave your foot on the brake? Mine is an automatic and it is easy to do this. Under normal driving conditions this is a small problem, but under heavy braking / spirited driving the hot pads staying in contact with a stopped disc will cause very quick 'warping'. It is well worth applying the handbrake when stopped rather than keeping your foot on the brake.

Not saying this is how you drive, but it may be worth noting the next time you stop hard what your foot is doing! This could be a reason why so many different combinations are warping quickly?

[Roadrunner]

EVO 4 to 7 upgrades will fit
No, sorry, they won't!

ileonc has a pre-facelift car so Evo V to VII brakes would require to have the hubs replaced too, as he says.

Evi IV brakes would fit, but I don't know if these are any improvement over the standard VR-4 discs. I'd echo other's comments that there must be something loose at the front end and that movement is causing your discs to warp.

The original brakes are not great, but they shouldn't be as bad as you've experienced.

[Physician]

Interesting point ileonc ..... and a subject that I have moaned about in the past.

My discs haven't warped in the 12 months I've had the car but I have got through three sets of pads. The first and second sets were some standard Ferodo pads and the present set which are soon to be replaced are DS2500's.

As some members here have seen for themselves ....... after coming off track after about three/four laps my pads are nearly on fire and smoking very heavily ...... so much so that I initially thought the car in front of me had blown his engine as the smoke was so thick. And yet no warping of the discs - which are the standard vented ones.

I think, as someone has mentioned, that you have another problem somewhere which is causing the issues you encounter.

Another point that must be bourne in mind is that the VR4 is a very heavy car and stopping it is always going to be an issue with standard braking kit - the standard brakes are fine for normal road conditions but on a track are useless in performance/lap times terms. What you make up in out performing other cars due to AYC, TCL, 4 x 4, etc you lose out when trying to outbrake many other lighter cars.

Good luck whatever you try.

[KiwiTT]

Also remember a good deal of braking force is in the tyres, not just the brakes. Try putting on a set of Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Tyres.

Check your suspension and in particular the condidtion of your shocks. Also lowering your centre of gravity may help.

[EdmundVR4]

I also own a pre-facelift VR4 & I am dissatisfied with the brakes on this otherwise fine sport sedan. I was looking at installing Evo 6 Brembo's but this doesn't seem to be possible.
Can anyone say what are the best options for revamping the brakes on the pre-facelift VR4 ?

[KiwiTT]

I believe it is AP Racing Brakes and Ferodo DS 500 pads.

[Sulli]

When you brake hard to a stop, do you leave your foot on the brake? Mine is an automatic and it is easy to do this. Under normal driving conditions this is a small problem, but under heavy braking / spirited driving the hot pads staying in contact with a stopped disc will cause very quick 'warping'. It is well worth applying the handbrake when stopped rather than keeping your foot on the brake.

Not saying this is how you drive, but it may be worth noting the next time you stop hard what your foot is doing! This could be a reason why so many different combinations are warping quickly?

Just what I was going to say. Good point Nick.
Keeping hot pads on hot dics is a sure way to warp the dics - and I guess autos are prone to this, there being no clutch to stop any driving force when you come to a halt. A few hard stops from 100mph and leaving the brakes on the same position on the disc (ie while stationery) will warp the discs straight away.
Probably in normal stop start driving the heat builds up in the pads, straining against the auto that is in drive, but stationery will also contribute.

[ileonc]

Also lowering your centre of gravity may help.

Can I eat more donuts then? :p

Looks like I've found the pulse of some of the community with regard to the VR4 brakes.

Its a lovely car, but for us pre-98 owners, the only option is to spend loads to get lovely stoppers or just grin an' bear it, which when we are talking about the safety of people around you and people in the car doesn't cut the mustard.

Point taken on a loose front end, I have to put the car on the ramps this weekend and so I'll have a push and pull to see if I have anything wrong or broke. But I don't feel like its the mechanics of the front end.

Yep I always clean up the hubs and the inside of the alloys before remounting the wheels. I've done it so many times I should be on a rally team. I do use a dial gauge when fitting the brakes.

To be fair I should really check the front end before complaining about the brakes, then again I would expect one side to be out of true more if it was a worn bush / part.

I'm gonna see what I can do with the front end this weekend and update the thread. I might replace the brake fluid as well as the pads, maybe removing and refitting the rotors. I also want to check out all the brake system and make doubly sure I'm not doing anything stupid.

Also I took some advice from a evo owner and braked down from 80 to 10 mph a few times to see if I could deglaze the pads. The brakes (once cooled off) performed better but the 'warping' is still there. I'm also getting loads of brake fade, not progressive, its like someone turned off the 'braking' switch.

Still I find it absolutely crazy that mitsubishi can build a car with all this performance and then deciding to fit brakes that are only good for 'medium' speed road work. Absolutely crazy, its like me going out on my bike with drum brakes on the front.

I'm still contemplating replacing the hubs for evo 8 ones, then again I am not that mad or rich! I run Brembos on my bike and never have had brake fade or any sort of degredation of braking force... thats why I really wanted those EVO brembos on the car.

[Kenneth]

If you are getting excessive brake fade, you should look at changing your brake fluid also. At least bleed it.

The fact that you are experiancing excessive brake wear and warping gives me the impression that you are

A) Using the brakes a hell of a lot.
B) You have something wrong with your system that is causing excessive heat build up in your rotors. If this is the case, you are likely heating up your fluid as well, causing poor brake response.

One thing you could try is going for a drive without using your foot brake, and see how much heat you get in your front brakes. That should give you some idea if you have excessive friction. Obviously you need a suitable area to do this.

Also, how are your pads doing?

[Spirit]

Don't forget KAD also do a front caliper/disc upgrade with DS2500 pads.

I can wholly recommend the National Disc/Ferodo DS2500 pad upgrade for the front - I got two or three track days out of mine with my old VR4 - and the current owner is still on the second set of pads/discs ! Worth every penny - and that's not many considering most things for this car :-b

[simpsonm]

Pete

Have you ever asked Woodford for a price on the rear discs and pads?

Cheers

Mick

[Spirit]

No mate - feel free to give them a call - ask for Simon and tell him I sent you ;)

[AllBeItMine]

i took my car in to get the disc's skimmed and bake pads upgraded this morning and they told me the rotors are warped and below the minimum thickness to skim... :(

upside is they are trying to find a good price on some :bling: slotted cross drilled rotors.

still - its still more money to spend on this black hole of a car :!:

edit: i've just checked, they're not cross drilled, just dimpled aparently. but hey, better than having no brakes at all so its all good. $400 for new rotors, uprated pads, complete caliper overhaul and system bleed isn't too bad.

its still $400 though

[AllBeItMine]

i took my car in to get the disc's skimmed and bake pads upgraded this morning and they told me the rotors are warped and below the minimum thickness to skim... :(

upside is they are trying to find a good price on some :bling: slotted cross drilled rotors.

still - its still more money to spend on this black hole of a car :!:

edit: i've just checked, they're not cross drilled, just dimpled aparently. but hey, better than having no brakes at all so its all good. $400 for new rotors, uprated pads, complete caliper overhaul and system bleed isn't too bad.

its still $400 though

wow - i'm impressed. i thought the guys where ****ting with me when they said they could set me up with these for $400.

check out the new bling.
http://img172.exs.cx/img172/1934/picture000209xp.jpg

[dickytim]

Where did you get them done ? That is a very good price, they look like these :
http://www.znoelli.co.nz/productcart/pc/mainindex.asp


http://www.znoelli.co.nz/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=144

What do people think of these sets ?

[dickytim]

some interesting reading here :

http://www.0800brakes.co.nz/pg8.htm

[AllBeItMine]

Where did you get them done ? That is a very good price, they look like these :
http://www.znoelli.co.nz/productcart/pc/mainindex.asp


http://www.znoelli.co.nz/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=144

What do people think of these sets ?


it pays to have mates who work down at your local pitstop :-)

i'm not 100% sure but i think the disc i got where znoelli. seem to recall that brand on the box. i won't have a chance to find out what the brake and pad combination is like for a week or two as i run them in but so far so good.

[KiwiTT]

Definitely worth contacting 0800brakes then.

[dickytim]

Allbeit, if you can get your contact to hook the club up with a good discount on brake service (similar to the deal you got), I will personally shout you a years full Club VR4 membership.......

[dickytim]

Alot of you guys give a lot of **** to the brakes on the VR4, when I first got my car I was a little concerned, but have learnt the limit of the braking and dont push it, stopping from 100kph (the maximum limit in NZ) the brakes are more than adequait, this does not mean I am not going to upgrade, because after my service and new sub and sticky rubber I will be upgrading the brakes as I do intrend to do some track work. I also engine brake which I think makes a big difference. I believe the brakes will stop you when they need to, lock them up and watch the speed roll off. Use the ABS like it was ment to be used.

[KiwiTT]

You could be onto something there dickytim - they are the equivalent of EVO IV brakes, I thought. And for normal driving they are more than adequate, in stopping a 1.5 tonne of vehicle from 100-110 in under 60 metres and no lock up.

I don't think I use the ABS much; I expect I dol in "emergency" braking, like some dickhead pulling out in front of me. I think the ASC probably helps too !

(Also good tyres and suspension) :-b

There is more to stopping a car then just brakes. ;)

[AllBeItMine]

You could be onto something there dickytim - they are the equivalent of EVO IV brakes, I thought. And for normal driving they are more than adequate, in stopping a 1.5 tonne of vehicle from 100-110 in under 60 metres and no lock up.

I don't think I use the ABS much; I expect I dol in "emergency" braking, like some dickhead pulling out in front of me. I think the ASC probably helps too !

(Also good tyres and suspension) :-b

There is more to stopping a car then just brakes. ;)

yeap. good brakes are pretty important. the reason i had no faith in mine was because they were completely shot! i haven't experience standard braking performance in a vr4 as i believe mine have always been warped.

so i guess i couldn't tell you if my brakes are an improvement or not. the only way to really tell is by driving the car in a fashion that is illegal.

i am going to be participating in a track day in taupo with NZMMC on the 18th of february so i should have some pretty good feedback on them by then.