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Gingerfish
11-08-2013, 11:24 AM
I'm thinking about experimenting with Carbon front wings to fit the 8g.

As far as I know all 8g wings are the same from the 2.0L right up to the VR4. Obviously, if any of you guys know better then please say so.
I've had a go at searching for someone that produces these, but I am yet to find anything.

I'm in the process of finding a pair of front wings to take a Fibreglass mould from. Once I have the moulds, I am hoping to have a go at producing a set of Carbon front wings to suit any 8g Galant/Legnum.

A friend of mine who owns an 8g VR4 Legnum has offered me to use his car as the tester for a set.

If there is enough interest, then I may consider making a few sets to sell, but for now I'm going to produce just a couple of sets for Ramjam and myself.

It may be a few weeks in the making at the moment, but once things start to progress ( "IF" they progress ), I will update this thread accordingly.

Fingers crossed :)

Adam.Findlay
11-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Intrested. Will keep track of this thread.

adaxo
11-08-2013, 03:09 PM
What will be a ballpark figure for a set? I know it will be a very rough guess but let say close to near 100 will do for now.

Ramjam
11-08-2013, 03:22 PM
Do it do it do it do it do it :D

crazydriver81
11-08-2013, 03:22 PM
!. Can you estimate the cost for a set of front wings?
2. Will you implement some vents or a shape where vents can be ftted (e.g. Ford S-Max vents)?

3. GO FOR IT! :D

Gingerfish
11-08-2013, 03:46 PM
Do it do it do it do it do it :D

lol.

Pushy git.

I dunno why your at it, seeing as you'll be getting the prototypes!

Vents will probably come later as it makes it a little more complicated.

Obviously I can't charge the earth for them as this will stop people buying them, but by the same token the materials will be expensive and they need a lot of work to get them ready for fitment.

It kind of depends on how much people are prepared to spend.

markysparky
11-08-2013, 07:28 PM
I think Alex, you should do a whole car, imagine the power to weight ?:D

Gingerfish
11-08-2013, 08:16 PM
I think Alex, you should do a whole car, imagine the power to weight ?:D

Dude, I couldn't!
As much as I would love to.

John TheAntique
11-08-2013, 08:39 PM
Couldn't imagine it, or, couldn't do it?

Gingerfish
11-08-2013, 09:57 PM
Too big a project John.

There is more than one way to manufacture Carbon Fibre. I'm only a novice as far as expertise and skill goes.

The structure itself would prove difficult to replicate. Hollow panels are easier to reproduce as I use a moulding method with fibreglass.

marvelman156
12-08-2013, 07:19 AM
Sounds like a good idea :D

c0xxy
12-08-2013, 01:04 PM
Dude, I couldn't!
As much as I would love to.

how about the doors? boot lid? some of the biggest savings on other cars

Gingerfish
12-08-2013, 01:34 PM
Doing the outer skins is fine, but things like brackets and generally odd shaped hollow structures is a bit beyond me.

666damned
12-08-2013, 08:05 PM
i know there options out there alex ,but what about bonnets/carbon rear spoiler would look nice.....

666damned
12-08-2013, 08:07 PM
how about perfecting the fibreglas mould with some nice vents....grp wings!..instead of all out on carbon...

666damned
12-08-2013, 08:08 PM
i personally would rather have painted 'special' wings than carbon...

Colin Wiltshire
12-08-2013, 08:36 PM
How about a fibreglass wing with carbon vents?

Gingerfish
12-08-2013, 08:42 PM
i know there options out there alex ,but what about bonnets/carbon rear spoiler would look nice.....

Do you mean Legnum or Galant spoilers Dave?

I did think about copying my Dolphin rear Legnum spoiler into Carbon but I hadn't got any further with it.

GRP wings would probably work out cheaper but not necessarily easier. It all really depends on whether I get time to develop other products/parts and if there is any interest. The main draw-back with Carbon parts is the price really.

After doing some rough calculations, the Carbon wings would work out at around £400 - £500 to buy finished from me. Obviously I will continue to find ways to bring costs down in order to make it a bit more appealing to interested parties. The main factors are production time, development cost and the Carbon sheeting itself.

I will try to work out a system to make it cheaper, but I'm still in the very embrionic stages.
I don't even have a set of wings to get a mould from yet, lol.

Even with Carbon wings, they can be sprayed to match a car. I have also been trying to better my spraying and blending skills.

Gingerfish
12-08-2013, 08:50 PM
Interesting concept Colin, but again with development comes development costs.

If I spend £500 developing products to sell and I only sell 5 products and make a profit of £200, I'll have made a massive loss and I couldn't afford that. I don't want to try and re-coup all of my costs in the first couple of products as massive profit margins tend to put off buyers.

I think I've been watching too much 'Dragons Den', lol.

Davezj
12-08-2013, 09:45 PM
I have a pair of front wings in the shed that I am gong to fit to my car but I have been doing that or he passed 2 years just never got round to it, you are more than welcome to borrow them to make a mould from, but I would like them back at some point to fit to my car.
I am in Manchester but I do make some trips down to my parent place near Southampton. So I could arrange to meet you on one over my trips.
Unfortunately you have caught my just before I am due to have an ACL replacement operation. So I will not be able to drive for about 6 weeks or so.
Let me know if you need them.

666damned
12-08-2013, 10:12 PM
what your saying alex makes perfect sense m8......full on carbon wings might be just be a touch too much for the majority as far as our cars go.....and it would be a shame to paint over lovely carbon weave......was thinking of galant rear spoiler....or maybe something on the lines of the super vr4.....if you have good solid base of mould...you could offer buyers that special option of carbon ....that way you can maybe take deposits and keep running costs down....maybe a group buy where everybody can send installments as the process develops...easier for your uofront costs...easier for buyer...jyst thoughts buddy...:-)

Gingerfish
13-08-2013, 09:54 AM
That's all good business sense Dave, but the trouble is; I don't run a business.

I am just one person and parts development costs money and time. There are loads of things I'd like to try but due to other commitments, I just don't get the time.

I do appreciate all the input, but for the time being I have to just take one step at a time. For now at least I'm happy to keep trying new things with my own car and through my mould making process I can offer others the chance to use my ideas and incorporate them into their own modifying process.

Erni902
13-08-2013, 12:08 PM
I don't even have a set of wings to get a mould from yet, lol.



PM Sent

Gingerfish
13-08-2013, 01:07 PM
PM Sent

Replied chap.

666damned
13-08-2013, 08:34 PM
just keep on doing what you can m8y.....you will get better and quicker.....

Gingerfish
17-08-2013, 01:49 PM
Thanks to Rikki ( Erni902 ) for the offer of the use of some wings to get moulds from, I'll be going ahead with this project at the beginning of September.

I'll keep the thread updated in time to let all those interested know how it's going.

Also thanks to swinks and Davezj for the offers, but got it sorted now.

Gingerfish
02-09-2013, 06:02 PM
Time for a mini update.......

Now I've got some wings, I made a start getting them prep'd ready for taking a mould ( cheers Erni902 ).

I had a few scrapes and and a nasty little dent to attend to first which has taken all day, but looking good so far.

6409064091640926409364094


I know this doesn't look like too much progress, but it's only day 1.

:)

Erni902
02-09-2013, 08:50 PM
Happy days mate good job so far glad the dent got squared away even if it did take all day. Cant wait to see when the moulds have been made and the first set produced. Glad to help in anyway :)

P.s did you hear the family by the entrance to the Sergison when we left? The kids were raving about the cars and asking if they were evo's. The dad then turned round and said 'nah mate those are legnum's there bloody quick them' lol made me smile a bit inside.

666damned
02-09-2013, 09:09 PM
looking forward to seeing the updates alex...:-)

Gingerfish
02-09-2013, 10:32 PM
The kids were raving about the cars and asking if they were evo's. The dad then turned round and said 'nah mate those are legnum's there bloody quick them' lol made me smile a bit inside.

lol. Didn't hear that.

Pretty sure the whole of Haywards Heath heard us "Dump-Valve Duelling" through town though! :D

Erni902
02-09-2013, 10:37 PM
lol. Didn't hear that.

Pretty sure the whole of Haywards Heath heard us "Dump-Valve Duelling" through town though! :D

Yes I must admit I had a few childish chuckles at the repeated psssst's through the town and I will admit that some of the drops of the dump valve were highly unnecessary but hey you only live once :)

Gingerfish
04-09-2013, 07:31 PM
bit more..............

6411164112

Wax and PVA applied, now for the nasty bit!.......

6411364114

adaxo
04-09-2013, 08:26 PM
Alex, I think, while you doing a mould, you may consider to fit kind of side vents?? something like that http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ford-S-Max-Front-Wing-Grilles-Anthracite-/120845773176

Gingerfish
04-09-2013, 08:48 PM
Holy freeholees! :o
I certainly couldn't afford to soak up that kind of expense.

If anyone does want to buy a set of the finished product, I'd have to add on a bit extra to the price and I can't imagine anyone wanting to pay any more than my guestimate price.

Certainly food for thought, but for now I'm trying to make them affordable for myself obviously and any potential buyers.
Just for the time being, price and quality are the key factors :)

adaxo
04-09-2013, 08:58 PM
Fully understandable, this was just example, not the actual item to get, im sure we can source this cheaper from breakers, IMO this will make wing more interested to get than 'plain' ones.

exevoowner
04-09-2013, 09:43 PM
think it would be one off vent not from other cars lol nice style tho

paulbonner84
22-09-2013, 06:41 PM
any updates on the wings mate?

Gingerfish
23-09-2013, 12:45 PM
Slowly does it I'm sorry to say.

Got momentarily side-tracked by doing this for a mate..
6439864399


I did manage to get thus far....

644006440164402

Acquired a minor casualty though! /Grrr

64403


Unfortunately removing from the mould wasn't quite as easy as I had thought. Brute force eventually won the day though :dance:

Need to smooth the inside edges with some body-filler and repair/modify the damage.........

exevoowner
23-09-2013, 12:58 PM
That looks freaky lol nice dash btw

paulbonner84
23-09-2013, 05:43 PM
getting there with them .dash looks sweet to

Gingerfish
23-09-2013, 06:32 PM
Next stage is to tidy up the mould edges and fill in some small air bubble holes on the inside to get a smooth finish.
Then I can move onto getting a Carbon Fibre wing done and match it up to the car to get the correct fitment holes lined up.


I have to admit, I'm not a massive fan of the white centre console. Having said that, it's not for me and my mate is pretty pleased with it. It does brighten up the cabin though.

exevoowner
23-09-2013, 07:51 PM
On the centre consols would it be hard to swap things around ?
My thinking is move heater control down to were the sunglass holder sits ?

Gingerfish
23-09-2013, 08:14 PM
Probably wouldn't be difficult. Just a bit fiddly I'd imagine.
I suppose it depends on how much you want to keep your sunglasses holder.

Tam
24-09-2013, 10:49 AM
Hi Alex,

I have made a few simple carbon parts for my bike ( number plate holders, toe guard, chain guard and heel plates) and the shapes are simple so i used Tigerflor i think its called and use vacuum bags at work. I have struggled in the past to make complicated shapes as i have tried to apply the tape or tigerflor, what wax did you use is it a special complosite release wax ?

I made a mould for the tow cover but it has tape lines in and a big crease where i could not get the vacuum bag down properly. I have filled it with matrix but as you say the legnum engine change tookover so not done anything with it in a while.

Cheers
Marc

Gingerfish
24-09-2013, 04:56 PM
Hi Alex,

I have made a few simple carbon parts for my bike ( number plate holders, toe guard, chain guard and heel plates) and the shapes are simple so i used Tigerflor i think its called and use vacuum bags at work. I have struggled in the past to make complicated shapes as i have tried to apply the tape or tigerflor, what wax did you use is it a special complosite release wax ?

I made a mould for the tow cover but it has tape lines in and a big crease where i could not get the vacuum bag down properly. I have filled it with matrix but as you say the legnum engine change tookover so not done anything with it in a while.

Cheers
Marc

I havn't tried tow-eye covers yet but they're on my radar ;)
I've not tried a vacuum method as I seem to get on well with the fibreglassing even though it's hugely smelly, messy and long-winded.

These are the products I use for my molding 64456 and they seem to work pretty well.

How did you get tape lines on the tow-eye cover? Did you not start with a completely smooth surface?

I'm not farmiliar with any other forms of producing carbon parts so I can't really advise about the vacuum method.

Tam
24-09-2013, 09:47 PM
Hi Alex

Got ridges as I used the tape we use for the hot bonder thermocouples, nothing sticks to it. Could not use the tigerflor due to shape. Used glass fibre to create the mould but now just need to sand these lines out but might try again using your wax as there will be no lines.

The vacuum bag method is what we teach for repairs, the vacuum draws out the excess fluid and air bubbles and is absorbed by a a material placed in (like a sponge/cotton wool material). Only drama is achieving the vacuum and then getting the fibre to remain on the mould whilst all inside a bag.

Do you just stippling method or make up loads of layers like pre-preg? Do you just put a layer of resin over top to get the nice finish you got with the engine covers?

Cheers
Marc

Gingerfish
25-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Exactly that.
Strips of glass fibre matting brushed with the resin to form a skin, then repeat the process. The mold I did for the engine covers uses 2 layers, whereas the wings have 3 for a bit more strength.
Then use filler to fill any air pockets, sand smooth and 3 - 4 layers of release wax followed by the PVA releasing agent.

I sand the finished CF to get a good key and add a layer of resin to get a smooth top coat.

The wings finished top coat this time will be aerosol laquer though to blend with the bodywork nicely.

Gingerfish
27-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Due to the time and lack of money coming up to Christmas, this project has gone on hold.

I will be picking it up in the new year, so watch this space....

;)

666damned
30-11-2013, 12:54 AM
Coming along nicely m8......looking forward to seeing your first ones in early spring...:-) next yr

peter m
22-12-2013, 05:50 PM
bit more..............

6411164112

Wax and PVA applied, now for the nasty bit!.......

6411364114

i think you need to look at gel coat , any resin you put to them moulds WILL KEY IN ,if you have to cut or fill in your mouldings start again as every part you do from them moulds will transfer , you will also need to put flanges to all your moulding to bolt them together and you will need a flange to put your vac bag to

if you want to chat about your moulds we can have a chat on the phone i will help you out

MarkSanne
22-12-2013, 10:44 PM
Vents like I did for my VR2, but then made in lightweight material would be very tempting (and probably less prone to get fracture line crack around the top area of the s-max vent...)!
http://www.galant-fans.nl/forum/download/file.php?id=4042&mode=view/image.jpg
http://www.galant-fans.nl/forum/download/file.php?id=4637&mode=view/vr2-vents.jpg

And the centre console looks familiar too! Here's his LHD brother (I did it in white faux leather):
http://www.galant-fans.nl/forum/download/file.php?id=5547&mode=view/monster-interior-black-03.JPG

peter m
23-12-2013, 12:54 AM
looks good, moulding something in carbon is something else, the moulding is were all the money goes, when i make a moulding the finish i want in a part has to be in the plug i will not mould it till the part looks like new even though that part goes in the bin , the flanges are in place so when you take the part from the mould you do not brake the part , if you are going to do vac formed carbon you need a flange on every edge of the part so you can put a sealing tape and a bag to the moulding , the resin you are useing are not a grade a resin and is no good for moulding it will bond, you dont have a gel coat on your mould this is what stops parts sticking , you need to look at getting gels and resins some were close to you , when i was buying carbon last it was £23 meter and the resin was £120 for five LT , the cost of making parts like this is nuts i worked it out just to make the part would cost me £150 per wing so i did not do them , and trust me i have made wing mouldings for the last ten years and i have vac formed kevlar wings for rallycars ,

peter m
23-12-2013, 01:06 AM
the white wings are off a nissan s12 driftcar