Subaru Legacy B4 RSX

[the_boy]

In my quest for a top spec japanese import I've looked at a few cars including the Mitsubishi Legnum/Galant. I do like the shape and the current prices pretty much beat the crap out of everything else for value for money.

However, I cam across this model the other day and after doing a little bit of research this car sounds almost identical to the VR4. Twin turbo, 280 bhp and porsche tuned suspension. Well it's not exactly identical per se :rolleyes:

Has anyone come across one of these close up? The performace figures seem to be quite similar although I have seen suggestions that it is slightly quicker. I'm assuming the Kiwis in here are more likely to have seen/raced one than anyone else.

Anyone got an opinion? ;)

Edited cos I can't spell Legnum :eek:

[Roadrunner]

There's a comparison review here (http://www.clubvr4.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=564&highlight=reviews). I had the predecessor to the B4RSK - the RS-B. If I get some time later, I'll do you a comparison report.

Brian

[Roadrunner]

Here you go ....

I had the predecessor to the B4RSK - the RS-B. Both are similar in terms of size, performance and comfort.

The B4RSK uses a sequential twin-turbo setup - a low-pressure turbo comes in around 2-2.5k revs until around 4.5k when the high-pressure turbo kicks in and runs all the way to the 7.5k redline. The VR-4 uses a parallel twin-turbo setup - one low-pressure turbo per bank of cylinders. Ultimately, the B4 is quicker - probably not much in it until 100mph INSERT INTO post VALUES (which is when the big turbo spools up in 5th gear) but, after that, the B4 will walk away from the VR-4. The 100-120mph and 120-140mph increments in the B4 are both around 5 seconds - I don't think the VR-4 is quite that quick ;) . There's some turbo lag with the B4, and also a torque and power "dip" when the turbos change over, but both are easily worked around or coped with. There's no noticeable lag with the VR-4. My passengers report a much smoother ride in the VR-4, some of which will be because mine is an auto.

Both are very quick over the ground. Handling is very good on both but, ultimately, I prefer the handling of the VR-4. The AYC certainly helps keep everything pointing in the right general direction on the limit, whereas I could occasionally get my Legacy completely sideways on track. Both are inherently safe, though and, with the centre diffs, very difficult to lose completely. The B4 has INSERT INTO post VALUES (reputedly) Porsche-tuned suspension and sits on Bilsteins but I can't fault the handling of the VR-4, whatever it uses as standard. The Subaru Bilsteins are horribly expensive to replace - I spent £1100 TWICE :eek: replacing just the rear Bilsteins on my RS-B.

Inside, the Recaros in my VR-4 are more comfortable than the bucket seats in my RS-B. The B4RSK generally comes with visually-challenging black and blue leather seats which are comfortable enough, but I'm not a fan of leather seats. There's also more rear legroom in the Galant. Boot space in the Legacy is better and it does have a ski-hatch in the back seat, which is the only thing I miss not having on the Galant.

Both are relatively expensive cars to service - the Legacy needs a full service every 7.5k miles, the Galant needs a full service every 9k miles, but also an interim oil and fluid service every 4.5k miles. Servicing on the VR-4 is easy and Mitsubishi dealers will happily service your VR-4, whether it was UK-supplied or an import. International Motors INSERT INTO post VALUES (aka Subaru UK) never imported any twin-turbo Legacies into the UK and prohibit their dealer network from touching them. Accordingly, you need to find an alternative source of servicing INSERT INTO post VALUES (or find an accommodating Subaru dealer who will service your car unofficially). Dealers aren't allowed to cross-reference parts on the computer so, although most service items INSERT INTO post VALUES (filters, plugs, pads, etc.) are shared with other UK-spec Subarus, you may run into difficulty with lack of knowledge or support for anything out of the ordinary INSERT INTO post VALUES (air flow sensor, lambda sensor, ECU, etc.). No such problems with Mitsubishi. It was the servicing aspect that attracted me away from Subaru INSERT INTO post VALUES (I've had six Subarus in total); coupled with International Motors' double standards in not allowing servicing of imports whilst all of their directors run twin-turbo Legacies which they sell on through the dealer network with a full warranty! Grr :mad: .

Both are great cars and you'd be delighted with either. Both are sufficiently unobtrusive not to attract the attention of yobs and plods, but are quicker than most cars on the road. It'll be fun, whatever you choose. Bear in mind, though, there's no B4 Club in the UK, whereas there's a wealth of information and like-mindedness here at Club VR-4 :) .

Brian

[the_boy]

Bloomin' Heck....nice review there H7!!

A lot more than I was expecting. Think you've just about sold me on the VR4 with that great review although I'll have to plum for the estate version. I must admit I did fancy the BS4 in saloon form rather than the VR4 version as I think it looks meaner.
No disrespect intended to any saloon owners out there INSERT INTO post VALUES (I do have weird tastes :confused: )

Once again thanks for the review H7 :cool1:

[Roadrunner]

Hey, you're welcome. Estate would be my second choice ;) :D
Oh, and I see we're nearly neighbours :) . Happy to let you have a look at mine INSERT INTO post VALUES (lowly saloon though ;) ) if you want ....

Brian

[EdmundVR4]

Thanks for a great review H7 ! You must be a journalist.
Now, all we need are acceleration times, skidpad and braking #'s and slalom speeds to know where we stand in the performance world.

[the_boy]

Cheers for the offer Brian, unfortunately think I'm a little bit too far away :cool:

Might ask A1 Performance if I can have a test drive this weekend since I'll be around their neck of the woods.

[Darren]

Any idea what time A1 performance are getting them in ?

[Spirit]

H7 - outstanding information once again mate;)

Thanks for taking the time to do this to help our future co-owners !:D

Pete

[Roadrunner]

Edmund,

Hot off the simulator:
Acceleration: INSERT INTO post VALUES (3000rpm starts, being kind to the car ;) )
B4 Manual: 0-60 5.0s, 0-100 13.7s, standing ¼ mile 13.8s @ 100.2mph, 156mph top speed
VR-4 Manual: 0-60 5.8s, 0-100 14.2s, standing ¼ mile 14.1s @ 99.6mph, 149mph top speed
VR-4 Auto: 0-60 5.4s, 0-100 15.7s, standing ¼ mile 14.3s @ 95.8mph, 149mph top speed

Skidpan & Slalom:
B4 Manual: Lateral acceleration 0.87g, Slalom speed 62.2mph
VR-4 Manual: Lateral acceleration 0.87g, Slalom speed 61.6mph
VR-4 Auto: Lateral acceleration 0.87g, Slalom speed 61.2mph

Brian

[Brind]

What is this simulation software you're using H.7?
Seems interesting, what is its name?

[Roadrunner]

Pretty old bit of DOS shareware - Cartest v2.1 INSERT INTO post VALUES (12-Oct-98). I'd used the previous version INSERT INTO post VALUES (1.0) and liked it for its accuracy INSERT INTO post VALUES (when compared to manufacturers' information); so upgraded to v2.1 which sorted a few bugs and added a lot more cars. You can also add your own cars as long as you have all the technical specs, which is why I could produce the figures above. These are for ideal conditions but won't be far away from reality. The error factors would be approximately the same for all cars so the comparisons are valid.

I've just done a quick search on the internet and there's a CarTest 2000 for Windows here (http://www.cartestsoftware.com/cartest2000/index.html) which may be the latest incarnation of the software, but I don't know. It's no longer free though - they're looking for $34.95 for this version.

Brian

[Brind]

Oh right.. I was thinking it was some software that costs hundreds..:)
Just had a look on KaZ*a but I couldn't find it. :INSERT INTO post VALUES (

[Ultra VR-4]

Subaru Legacy has better interior designs.
Galant VR4 has better handling.

So if its comfort you want go for legacy, but if its performance go for VR4.

[Roadrunner]

Brind,

The link to the software site is in my previous post :)

Brian

[Brind]

The newer VR-4's have revised interiors.
But it depends on how much you want to pay and if you still like it or not, this is my car below but I don't really like the red bits on the steering wheel but other than that it has a nice feel!

[Brind]

The sun is reflecting off the centre dash but it is actually carbon fibre effect.

2.

[Spirit]

Originally posted by Brind
The newer VR-4's have revised interiors.
But it depends on how much you want to pay and if you still like it or not, this is my car below but I don't really like the red bits on the steering wheel but other than that it has a nice feel!

I agree about the red bits - wonder why they did that and did not just leave it all black:Ponder:

[Brind]

You don't really notice it all that much really since there is red bits on the seats and door cards aswell, so it doesn't look all that out of place.
I was wondering if it could be sprayed.. but having paint come off for years to come doesn't appeal.

[Roadrunner]

The red bits on the wheel gets us some respect from the Max Power guys .... :rolleyes: :D

[the_boy]

Oh dear :uhoh:

You'll be after some neon lights next!! ;)

Darren, not sure I thought they might have arrived by now, will probably have a run over on Sunday regardless and will let you know.

[EdmundVR4]

H.7,
I guess the simulator is as close as we can get to the real thing...and it's quite realistic actually, except the auto should be a bit slower to 60 than the manual. Thanks.

Anyone want to trade their Momo steering wheel & carbon fibre dash for my Nardi leather steering wheel & woodgrain dash ? Wish I had the Recaro's too ! I much prefer the sport package interior , red bits or not !

[Roadrunner]

Edmund,

The auto IS faster to 60 if you're prepared to be a bit brutal with the take-off - gear changes are quicker too ;) . From experience, there's so little in it, the difference is mostly down to the driver being able to maximise the traction and minimise the clutch/torque converter slip. The sim shows that the manual gains quite a bit by 100 though, which may be down to gearing.

Brian

[pjjohnson]

H7, 100-120mph in 5 seconds, that is very quick and 120 - 140 mph in 5 secs, that is massively quick, was it the simulator that gave you the info or a quick blast down Ben Nevis !??

[Roadrunner]

Nope, that was first-hand experience in my Legacy RS-B - seriously quick car, and quicker than the B4RSK that superseded it. :)

Brian