1st gear only is slipping/not engaging - 1999 Automatic VR4

[kzv76]

I have a 1999 Galant VR-4 Automatic with 88K. When I select drive it sometimes shifts into 1st, sometimes not, then when I press the accelerator I get some drive then it slips and then I get no drive. If I slide it over into tip tronic mode I can select 1st and it works perfectly. Once near the top of first gear moving along I can slide over into D and it shifts perfectly up into 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th, and also shifts fine in tip tronic. When I come to a stop, It shows its in 1st but has no drive and slips. Slide over to tip tronic and it engages first and drives away.

I've already flushed the transmission fluid and replaced with new but no change.

Any ideas what this could be?

Thanks in advance

[elnevio]

Strange one!

How is the fluid level?

Also, have you pulled the fault codes, as this may give some pointers.

[Subaru ETA]

ECU fault maybe? Is it on its original trans?
Also, what fluid is in it?

[kzv76]

Fluid level is correct as it has been flush and been filled with the mitsi Queen SPIII. Cost me £84! :o Fluid that came out was a bit dark but didn't smell bad. Haven't attempted fault codes yet. Looks to me as if the trans has been pulled and dissasembled at some point as there is orange sealant between the alu casing parts. I'm sure mitsi didn't use orange sealant.

[elnevio]

If the SP-III was approximately £15 a litre (IIRC), then only the oil in the sump will have been dropped. There is about the same again in the gearbox internals. The only true flush is to run the engine while the feed and drain pipes are disconnected so that only new ATF is going in until all the old is out and only new ATF is coming back out. Whilst the gearbox capacity is 8.9L, you often need around 12L or so to flush the old crap out.

The best oil for these gearboxes, which far outperforms SP-III, as well as having cleaning qualities, is Amsoil Universal ATF. If you have a problem gearbox, quite often the Amsoil will improve it, or even clear the issue completely. Obviously, it can't replace metal, so if there is severe damage, it won't get any better.

Because your issue only affects first when it is in D rather than 1 in tiptronic, I would think that it could be a fluid issue, but I guess it could be a solenoid. However, the boxes are mostly black magic, so it's difficult to say!

As for the ATF level, it should be checked when the gearbox is warm, and in N, after cycling through P N R D 1 2 1 D R N a couple of times. And repeated readings should be taken as the level is difficult to see.

My original gearbox had the reddy/orangey sealant. Pretty sure that stuff is original.

[kzv76]

I bought 10L of the stuff and performed the flush with the engine running and watched the color change from brown to cherry as it filled into a bucket with the pipe off the cooler. Mitsi are selling it for £7/L down the road from me.

I'm interested in the solenoid route, how many of these solenoids are there and how do I go about changing them?

I'm assuming that only 1st gear solenoid - if there is one - needs replacing. is it these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F4A41-F4A42-F4A51-Transmission-Shift-Solenoid-1996-On-Mitsubishi-OEM-New-99367-/321182402179?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AMitsubishi&hash=item4ac7f68683&vxp=mtr

[elnevio]

Good to see that the flush was performed correctly! :)


I'll admit that I'm not aware of people changing the solenoids (unless Peter Thomson did at some point?).

The gearbox may need removing to get to them, again I'm not sure. I'd be tempted to source a replacement gearbox for the price they are. Davezj had a 1999 autobox with ECU that would be a perfect fit. It was in mine, but I had compatibility issues with mine being a PFL and having TCL/ASC. The box came out of a 80,000 mile car, having been previously run on Amsoil, and also for the 5,000 miles or so it did in mine, as well as having the TC seal replaced. It was running beautifully in the car it was removed from the day before it went into mine. I subsequently sourced a PFL box to sort my issue.

Just an option, if it's available.

[kzv76]

The seller states "This is generally a high failure item and many times the cause of shifting issues." Part of me is thinking that's saleman talk, but does sound like that's the problem with mine. I do fancy getting one but I'd like to know exactly where it goes first.

How much are these autoboxes and do you need a matching TCU to go with them?

[Confused]

Moving to tiptronic will have no bearing on how the gearbox is mechanically operating - however, it will affect how the ECU controls the gearbox, mostly due to using different bits of code. Maybe it's possible that something has gone awry with the memory/programming within the ECU and when in D it is encountering a memory issue and not executing the bit of code to shift into 1st properly.


However - when you move the lever into D, it is making a physical movement within the box, engaging what is essentially 3rd gear. The other gears are then selected hydraulically from here. I'd have expected that without the correct signals to the valves, it would fail back to 3rd. When slowing in D, it will bypass 2nd gear and drop directly from 3rd to 1st... But, that doesn't explain why it would work when flicking over to Tiptronic mode...


Auto gearboxes for these cars are ridiculously cheap - it's cheaper to just replace the box than even bother to open up your current one. There are a number of revisions of the gearbox, which from experience on the site needs the matching ECU - but in some cases even with the matching gearbox ECU, there are still odd issues (due the interconnectivity of the various ECUs for engine, gearbox, AYC, ABS etc)

I would suggest getting the 99 box + ECU that was in Nev's car, and try initially swapping just the ECU - this should be identical to your current setup, and might rule out an ECU issue - and then if you need to swap the boxes, you've already got the correct box.


Sorry - this was a bit of rambling and typing whilst randomly thinking things, it may make some sense, it may not! ;)

[kzv76]

The thing is, it does go into 1st when you select D from P. It then gives some drive but then looses it. sometimes it'll have enough bite that it'll shift up into 2nd. You flick over to tip tronic, it engages and your away. come to a stop and it doesn't engage 1st, but shows it in 1st. It won't roll backwards on a hill either whilst doing this.

Does that change anyone's thinking?

Also I'd like to get hold of a replacement box and TCM if anyone has one?

[BubbaLeggyVR4]

Torque converter slipping??
Jus a guess as u say its holding on a hill but looses it if u speed up sometimes.
Does it change with take off? Eg Booting it or Pootling it? :) lol

[kzv76]

When I change between N and D it does engage 1st but after 1500RPM it slips. After this it does not hold on hill I've come to realize. Also once it slips, 1st never comes back unless I select tip tronic. If I flip back to N and then into D 1st comes back and process starts all over again.

[kzv76]

Does anyone know of a 1999 autobox and matching ECU for sale? I've tried so many things that I think this route is going to be the easiest IMO. :sigh:

[Davezj]

I have a 1999 Galant VR-4 Automatic with 88K. When I select drive it sometimes shifts into 1st, sometimes not, then when I press the accelerator I get some drive then it slips and then I get no drive. If I slide it over into tip tronic mode I can select 1st and it works perfectly. Once near the top of first gear moving along I can slide over into D and it shifts perfectly up into 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th, and also shifts fine in tip tronic. When I come to a stop, It shows its in 1st but has no drive and slips. Slide over to tip tronic and it engages first and drives away.

I've already flushed the transmission fluid and replaced with new but no change.

Any ideas what this could be?

Thanks in advance

Has it always done this or is it a recent occurrence?
What I am getting at is have you just bought the car with this issue?

I and a few other have had the same symptoms after swapping out a broken gear box in my case it wa a mismatch between the older auto box and and Newer ecu, I just swapped out the auto box ecu for the correct age one to match the auto box and it worked perfectly. This was in a pre facelift car.

Just thought I would point this out.

[kzv76]

Hi Dave, I bought the car like this, the box looks as if it has been swapped out at some point. So possibly the correct age ECU will cure it? Any numbers on the autobox that will help me match it?

[Davezj]

Yes the numbers are available.
Firstly is you car a facelift or pre facelift?

[kzv76]

It's facelift 1999 UK Spec 5sp Auto

[Humpty's Revenge]

It's facelift 1999 UK Spec 5sp Auto

I have got 2 facelift 1999 gearbox ecu's from 2 imports

If there is no difference between uk/import I have one readily available & one I will need to find ?

If that helps out please let me know what numbers are on top of the black plastic cover so I can see if there's any difference if that matters of course ?

[Davezj]

It's facelift 1999 UK Spec 5sp Auto

OK so can you post up you chassis number so i see what model number your original auto box was.
then you need to remove the air box inlet snokle and get a torch and shine it down on the top of the gear box, there is a model number on top of the auto box on a small flat area next to where the external filter was on the earlier version of the auto box.

i will try and find the threads that show the location of the model number in a picture and the different model numbers there are, it is only about 3 different models.

[kzv76]

Chassis: EC5A-0300366
AutoBox: W5A513E6A ES2166

If I knew where the transmission ecu was I'd give you those numbers too.

I'm a Mk6 Galant VR4 & DSM guy I've got one of each - I'm new to these Mk8's

You guys are really helpful!

[Davezj]

Is the auto box number the one you have in the car at the moment or is that the original one that is no longer fitted.

AutoBox: W5A513E6A is a Pre facelift box so you will need a pre facelift ECU.

but i don't know how the Facelift engine ECU will like the pre facelift box and ect for the auto.

i know the other way round is what did and it worked perfectly. i have a late PFL 1998 and it the W5A513E6B box so when i fitted the W5A513E6A box i fitted the older ECU.

so it would be worth a try i will get back to you tomorrow.

[Davezj]

ASA says your car was fitted with a W5A513E6B
so your current A/T ECU should be MR470718

My original config was:-
Box W5A513E6B
ECU MR367177 which different from yours.


How ever for a W5A513E6A box
you will need a MD761988


but i don't know if this will work on the facelift, due to the deletion of ASC and TCL on the Facelift cars.
If you can get hold of an MD761988 ecu to test if it will work, this would be you best bet.
by the way the ECU's are behind the passenger footwell ceter consol panel the engine ECU is on top and the A/T ecu is on the bottom.

the word doc below show all the A/T ECU's and Autobox for both EC5W and EC5A you just need to match up thre dates to see what ecu is matched to which auto box. But that does not mean a matched pair will work on both pre faclift model and facelift model.

64963

[Davezj]

by the way when i had the auto box ecu mismatch after changing my gear box i used my car for about 3 months i think before i worked realised it was an ecu auto box mismatch.
i just drove it in Tiptronic all the time, gear box worked perfectly, if i wanted to put it in D then i just ensured whenever i stopped, i poped it in to tiptronic changed to 2nd and slot it back into D.
you get used to doing it very quickly.

[elnevio]

by the way when i had the auto box ecu mismatch after changing my gear box i used my car for about 3 months i think before i worked realised it was an ecu auto box mismatch.
i just drove it in Tiptronic all the time, gear box worked perfectly, if i wanted to put it in D then i just ensured whenever i stopped, i poped it in to tiptronic changed to 2nd and slot it back into D.
you get used to doing it very quickly.

That sounds like the same symptoms, no?

It might thus be solvable with a swap to the correct auto ECU.

Check which one you have first. I think I have a spare you could borrow to see if it fixes it?

[kzv76]

Thanks guys, I will check asap what the ECU number is. I think you're right and the box was swapped out but the ecu remains the same and that's why its not working.

The ECU number is going to be the clincher! :D

If thats the correct ECU then a new autobox is the solution.

[kzv76]

The autobox is the one currently in the car. The A/T ecu is an MR470718. As suspected A/T ECU mismatch - Well done Dave & Nev!!

Nev, you say you have a spare MD761988 I could try?

Lets just hope it's compatible with the FL setup.

[Davezj]

That sounds like the same symptoms, no?

It might thus be solvable with a swap to the correct auto ECU.

Check which one you have first. I think I have a spare you could borrow to see if it fixes it?

Yes it is the same scenario with the swapping of the boxes for an earlier model but mine went into a pfl and his is going in fl with the ac and tcl removed.
So I am not 100% sure if it will work, but it is probable the best shot he has got of making it work in the cheapest possible way.

Unless the at ecu can be reflashed with the other rom image, but I have not delved into that, I know foxdie jason has looked at a/t ecu flashing. But I don't if it is possible to do.

[elnevio]

I think the spare ECU is still in the glovebox. I'll find out about 6pm tonight when Mrs B returns with the VR-4!

[kzv76]

Thanks Nev, just let me know ;)

[elnevio]

Thanks Nev, just let me know ;)

Yes, I have the spare auto ECU, and it's the MD761988 one. PM me your address and I'll send it across to you to try. :thumbsup:

[kzv76]

Thanks Nev, I really appreciate it.

Plus we can all find out if its possible to swap out a PFL Autobox into a FL and see if the old matching ECU is compatible - will post results! ;)

[Davezj]

definitely keep us posted, it will be interesing.

it should work, i think ( i always ooozz comitment and positivity)

[kzv76]

Well..........

Success!!!!

Matching the Autobox with the correct ECU solved all the problems I had with it. It now shifts perfectly just as it was designed.

I wonder why the box was swapped out in the first place?

But anyway, we now know you can fit a PFL autobox ECU into a FL.

All you need is a matching autobox and ECU and it looks like they will work in either PFL or FL VR4's.

You guys are legends thanks so much for your help.

[elnevio]

I'm guessing the original suffered a failure! The ATF can degrade quite quickly if worked. Mitsubishi SP-III will go this way, often before the 45,000 mile service interval , Amsoil Universal ATF is by far and away the best and thrashes everything else, including SP-III. A few years ago, it wasn't uncommon for Dexron-III ATF to be used in these boxes (usually non-Mitsi garages, etc.) and problems would usually follow not too far behind.

Unfortunately, without intimate internal knowledge at Mitsubishi, or indeed the acquired knowledge here, there's not really much way of knowing what the solution is, as otherwise the boxes pretty much look the same.

I suspect the difference in your case will have come down to the fact that the facelift box will have had OWC (one-way clutch), which the PFLs did not. The oilways will flow slightly differently under different circumstances. The matching ECU means the box knows what it's doing again.


The main incompatibility problem on VR-4s appears to arise from trying to install a facelift box and ECU into a PFL, due to the mismatch regarding the AYC/ASC/TCL, which relies on an information exchange with the gearbox. Unfortunately, the change appears to require the loom and facelift AYC ECU, which is a bit of chore (minor understatement!). I don't think anyone has gone to that extreme yet?