camber kit,will this work?

[rajvr497]

hi guys,can someone tell me if this front/rear camber kit works in the vr4?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECLIPSE-TALON-AVENGER-SEBRING-95-99-FRONT-REAR-SUSPENSION-ADJUSTABLE-CAMBER-KIT-/380643273290?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AEclipse&hash=item58a01b6a4a&vxp=mtr

[CANDEE]

Thats pretty much the kits that everyone uses to adjust the camber on the cars. :)

[rajvr497]

thanks bro,my car is cutting tires very bad,need that kit like yesterday.

[Davezj]

have you tried rolling you arches, or getting someone to do it.

[rajvr497]

i am going to do that and camber front and rear properly......

[Piers1989]

Just to necro another thread - that item isn't available any more.

Are these ok?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Avenger-Talon-Eclipse-Galant-Suspension-Adjustable-Front-Camber-Kit-Chrome-/291813159976?hash=item43f16b7428:g:XbIAAOSwhOVXfqY M&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sebring-Avenger-Talon-Stratus-Eclipse-Suspension-Rear-Adjustable-Camber-Kits/291813159915?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D41375%26meid%3D8c3a4bf89a3041e88f7b34671dac a6a6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D2918 13159976

[Colin Wiltshire]

Ask Pugme I think he had to do custom parts

[Piers1989]

Ask Pugme I think he had to do custom parts

I read through a thread about that, but I believe it was so he could get MORE negative camber for the stance of the car.

After lowering my car on new coilovers, the front is out by -2.1 ~ -1.5 degrees and rear by -2.38~-3.15. I just want to put them back to stock and have normal vertical wheels.
The kit things I linked I believe allow up to +3 on the front and rear.

[Nick Mann]

Those kits look right to fit but i can't be sure. At least it isn't too expensive if they don't!

[Davezj]

Personally I would just put a stack of washers behind the factory top arm mount on the rear. I have done this before and it works just fine.

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[Piers1989]

Personally I would just put a stack of washers behind the factory top arm mount on the rear. I have done this before and it works just fine.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

As someone with little to no experience doing mechanical things, how difficult is this to do?

Here is my alignment printout.
Would I know how many washers to add without having the car re-checked on the Hunter Laser machine?
I Imagine Kwik Fit (the only local place with a Hunter machine) won't do any washers-behind-the-arm stuff for all their safety policies.

76801

[Pugme]

On the rear yes, you can just use washers behind the fixing points of the upper arm

For the front you need the ingalls adjustable upper ball joints to correct camber properly

The rear upper arm is just a horseshoe shape piece of metal which has 2 bolts per side holding it to the car. They will be damn tight and access is a ballache so it helps to unholy the hub carrier so the arm can be pushed up and down to get better access.

But all in all its literally just undoing bolts and tightening them back up

[Louis]

You might need longer bolts depending on how many washers you use .

Also the link in the first post, these are ok for the rear, but don't use them on the front arms, I used them a long time back and they broke up after about 4 months!

For the fronts use the ingalls adjustable ball joints, get last a long time and have more than enough adjustment,

[Piers1989]

You might need longer bolts depending on how many washers you use .

Also the link in the first post, these are ok for the rear, but don't use them on the front arms, I used them a long time back and they broke up after about 4 months!

For the fronts use the ingalls adjustable ball joints, get last a long time and have more than enough adjustment,

Is this what you speak of?
https://www.ingallseng.com/35621-adjustable-ball-joint.html

In relation to the washers on the rear, based on the alignment print out, am I likely to need a lot to correct 3 degrees of camber or is that relatively low?

I've only dropped the car around 20mm further than the standard ride height the Tein coilovers were set to from the factory.

On the same note, all 4 corners are rubbing the arches very significantly. I'm going to have to get them rolled or cut before I can really drive the car!
In another thread I necro'd recently it looked like normally the wheels tuck in just fine, is it possible my Enkei wheels have a larger offset than what the car really needs? I only have 235/45/17 tyres!
Measuring from the hub to the outside of the wheel is around 7.6cm if that information is useful?
768027680376804768057680676807

[Nick Mann]

Fronts should be close but probably okay with that combination. The rears will be close and probably not okay. With a facelift model that has plastic arch extensions the rear arches are slightly different and have a bit more clearance so that combination tends to be okay. With a prefacelift most people use a 225/45 17 to achieve the clearance.

[Louis]

That is the correct ball joint :)

Speaking from my own personal experience.
I have evo enkies they look exactly the same as yours.
I am on 235/45/17.
I don't know about teins being set by tein!!!!.
It looking at the photo, that is dropped much more than 20mm!!. It could be your car was not at factory height before fitting the teins, but that is definitely lowered more than 20mm. The vertical gap of tyre to arch on a standard car is more like 6cm. The standard gap at the front is usually higher than the rear, so if you drop all four. Orners by the same amount the rears would rub first.

Anyone else want to input on the standard ride height in their experience just to confirm.

Personally I would raise each corner by the same amount until you don't get rubbing on the arches, and see what it sits like.
It's a bit of a pain, but better to get it right while the gear is new and easy to adjust on the car.

Have a look at legnum images from Mitsubishi brochures and adverts on here and on line to see the standard height.

[Louis]

Don't use the parts in post 6 on this thread. The rubber on the fronts tears after about 4 months and the metal then breaks, not good, the rears aren't great either I think the washer method and longer bolts are safer on the rear.

I had a quick look and found a photo of a legnum from an old for sale add just to show the ride height ( you can also see bigger gap on front)
And also a brochure thread image.

https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?63067-VR4-1999-Warrington&highlight=Legnum+brochure

https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?16254-For-Sale-2000-Ralliart-(UK)-Galant-VR-4-Estate&highlight=Legnum+brochure

[Piers1989]

That is the correct ball joint :)

Speaking from my own personal experience.
I have evo enkies they look exactly the same as yours.
I am on 235/45/17.
I don't know about teins being set by tein!!!!.
It looking at the photo, that is dropped much more than 20mm!!. It could be your car was not at factory height before fitting the teins, but that is definitely lowered more than 20mm. The vertical gap of tyre to arch on a standard car is more like 6cm. The standard gap at the front is usually higher than the rear, so if you drop all four. Orners by the same amount the rears would rub first.

Anyone else want to input on the standard ride height in their experience just to confirm.

Personally I would raise each corner by the same amount until you don't get rubbing on the arches, and see what it sits like.
It's a bit of a pain, but better to get it right while the gear is new and easy to adjust on the car.

Have a look at legnum images from Mitsubishi brochures and adverts on here and on line to see the standard height.

Thanks Louis.

Yes overall it's lower than 2cm - I'd guess 4-5cm below stock.
From Tein there was a little manual showing how the should be set from the factory specifically for this car, with instructions on lowering it. The car was a bit lower than the factory suspension then, but still very significant gaps front and rear.
I lowered it 2cm from this setting, there is still a lot more adjust range left on the coil for reference, so it's not at its limit.

The rears on the car I can't get my finger in, whereas the front I can - so yes the rears are closer.
Its probably 4mm of tyre that hits the arch though! If it was marginally further into the well - or the arches had less lip / pushed out it would be fine on the rear.
The fronts have over 1cm of clearance, but they stick out more and probably have a full cm or so of collision with the arch.

I won't be driving the car until that's sorted. I could raise it back up, but then I'd need to get it realigned again, then get the camber changed, then aligned again. I'd like it to be a little lower than it was after first fitting the coilovers too as there were still pretty big gaps!
I'll probably purchase the camber adjust ball joints, and an arch roller, then roll the arches and add some washers to the rear to correct the camber. Get the garage to fit the adjustable ball joints and then have it realigned.

Is there any general method to setting the rear camber by eye?
I'm sure my garage will be happy to put washers in there for me if I can't do it myself, but I'm not sure how to tell if its too little / too much!

[menno3x8g]

If you want to correct the camber on the rear with 3°, you can calculate the thickness of the washers you need.
- I took a PFL (front!) hub and measured the distance between the top and the centre of the axis: is was about 38cm.
- I provided a triangle calculator on the web with data and got nearly 2cm for the thickness of the washers.
Please note: I took a front hub, so measure the rear by yourself.
76809 76810 76808

[adaxo]

Just my 2pence regarding rear adjustment with washer method, dead easy to do but BE CAREFUL WHEN DRIVING CAR FIRST TIME AFTER ADJUSTMENT it can kill you easy if you overdo it, rear end became very lively if you end up with positive camber, I sheet myself back in the days.

[Davezj]

You can use a camber gauge to check the alignment.
Stick the gauge to the disk centre (magnetic fixing) zero the gauge, change the camber recheck the camber. It will tell you the difference between zeroed angle and the new angle.
They are not expensive any more.

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[Louis]

Yes, you need to have a bit more than one finger as the suspension has to move a bit.

In my experience you can have two fingers all round!, but you need to stiffen the shock setting right up which makes the ride quite harsh, you also don't want it to skip over bumps if too stiff .
You can use a spirit level for basic set up before going for alignment.
Use a spirit level on your iphone or mobile or a digital level.

[Pugme]

I had a wheel to arch gap of 3 business card thicknesses :)

So anything is possible to be driven on lol

[Pugme]

76811h

[Davezj]

Just to necro another thread - that item isn't available any more.

Are these ok?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Avenger-Talon-Eclipse-Galant-Suspension-Adjustable-Front-Camber-Kit-Chrome-/291813159976?hash=item43f16b7428:g:XbIAAOSwhOVXfqY M&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sebring-Avenger-Talon-Stratus-Eclipse-Suspension-Rear-Adjustable-Camber-Kits/291813159915?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D41375%26meid%3D8c3a4bf89a3041e88f7b34671dac a6a6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D2918 13159976

Piers i have some advice about new Tein coilovers, to keep them in tip top condition i would suggest once you have them setup as you want them, make sure you grease up the exposed adjustment threads on the shock body and cover them with duct tape you think it will not stick to greased threads but it will wrap round and the tape will stick to itself and hold into position. the reason for me suggesting this is the salt used on the roads in the UK the dirt the constant water splashes it will not take long for the threads to get clogged up and to start corroding, not to mention the spring seats and locking nut, they are aluminium and they will start to corrode as well. so the more grease and the more it covered by tape the better they will last, so when you want to change the ride height or preload in the spring it will be possible to adjust them. i have seen enough teins in terrible condition to know that this is a must.

[Piers1989]

Piers i have some advice about new Tein coilovers, to keep them in tip top condition i would suggest once you have them setup as you want them, make sure you grease up the exposed adjustment threads on the shock body and cover them with duct tape you think it will not stick to greased threads but it will wrap round and the tape will stick to itself and hold into position. the reason for me suggesting this is the salt used on the roads in the UK the dirt the constant water splashes it will not take long for the threads to get clogged up and to start corroding, not to mention the spring seats and locking nut, they are aluminium and they will start to corrode as well. so the more grease and the more it covered by tape the better they will last, so when you want to change the ride height or preload in the spring it will be possible to adjust them. i have seen enough teins in terrible condition to know that this is a must.

Thanks Dave, good advice.

I will do just this. I was surprised how much crap was in the threads already when I was adjusting it!

[Piers1989]

If you want to correct the camber on the rear with 3°, you can calculate the thickness of the washers you need.
- I took a PFL (front!) hub and measured the distance between the top and the centre of the axis: is was about 38cm.
- I provided a triangle calculator on the web with data and got nearly 2cm for the thickness of the washers.
Please note: I took a front hub, so measure the rear by yourself.
76809 76810 76808


Just my 2pence regarding rear adjustment with washer method, dead easy to do but BE CAREFUL WHEN DRIVING CAR FIRST TIME AFTER ADJUSTMENT it can kill you easy if you overdo it, rear end became very lively if you end up with positive camber, I sheet myself back in the days.

Thanks for this too guys, I'll certainly be careful, and see if I can measure the rear arm.

I'll look into getting a camber gauge too if they are cheap, or I'll see if we have a spirit level from work - that would indeed be an easy way to estimate!

[Davezj]

This is the sort of thing I have.
Digital protractor
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262872167645

Rather than a dedicated camber gauge.

With the digital protractor you don't have to worry about having the car set perfectly level as you zero it on the car then make the adjustment and take the new reading.

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[Piers1989]

This is the sort of thing I have.
Digital protractor
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262872167645

Rather than a dedicated camber gauge.

With the digital protractor you don't have to worry about having the car set perfectly level as you zero it on the car then make the adjustment and take the new reading.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

That looks like a pretty easy way to do it actually, good idea!

Where on the car would you suggest as a level point? Most of the bodywork isn't exactly straight.

[Davezj]

You don't need a level point. you have been told you have say 3 Deg of camber by the garage you attach the gauge to brake disk centre, zero the gauge make the adjustment and the gauge tells you the difference in the angle. In this case it would be 3 Deg or -3 Deg depending on which way you have the gauge orientated.

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[Piers1989]

You don't need a level point you have been told you have say 3 Deg of camber you attach the gauge to break disk centre, zero the gauge make the adjustment and the gauge tells you the difference in the angle. In this case it would be 3 Deg or -3 Deg depending on which way you have the gauge orientated.

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Oh, of course! I didn't think of it that way!

[Davezj]

The bubble gauges work as well but I believe you have to have the car level before you can take a reading.
I presume as well that the camber will change as the weight of the car is applied to the wheel hub and the suspension is compressed.
So checking it loaded and unloaded you be good to do.
I think it depends on if the suspension has equal length upper and lower arms.

You could simulate the weight of the car on the wheel hub without the wheel on be putting g a jack under the bottom of the suspension arm at the hub and raise the jack until the car just start to lift off the axle stands then lower it back down so it just touched the stands. Then you know almost the full weight of the car is on the suspension and the hub is sitting in its normal position. This is the way the camber would have been measured in the alignment shop with weight on the hub. You could zero the gauge at this point release the jack and see how the camber has changed. I would have thought it would go back to a position with no bad camber

Just thinking out loud.

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[Piers1989]

The bubble gauges work as well but I believe you have to have the car level before you can take a reading.
I presume as well that the camber will change as the weight of the car is applied to the wheel hub and the suspension is compressed.
So checking it loaded and unloaded you be good to do.
I think it depends on if the suspension has equal length upper and lower arms.

You could simulate the weight of the car on the wheel hub without the wheel on be putting g a jack under the bottom of the suspension arm at the hub and raise the jack until the car just start to lift off the axle stands then lower it back down so it just touched the stands. Then you know almost the full weight of the car is on the suspension and the hub is sitting in its normal position. This is the way the camber would have been measured in the alignment shop with weight on the hub. You could zero the gauge at this point release the jack and see how the camber has changed. I would have thought it would go back to a position with no bad camber

Just thinking out loud.

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Yeah that's why I wasn't too sure about the bubble levels, when your talking only a couple of degrees I imagine having a non level surface would make a big difference.

Could I not go for it by working to cancel out what has been shown on the alignment report?
By this I mean even with the car on a jack, if I know I want it to have 3 degrees more camber, I take a baseline reading to zero the machine on this disk, then adjust until the gauge reads +3 degrees from that baseline.
Or do you think that there will be a relative difference based on the weight too? (As in 3 degrees under no weight != 3 degrees under weight).

[Confused]

The wheels tuck in as you lower, introducing camber, so we know that the suspension arms aren't equal length. Therefore the amount of camber will change based upon suspension height (ie weight applied), so it needs to be set as per it sat on its wheels, else you may introduce more or less camber at ride height as the suspension moves on its arc.

It may be some trial and error, and taking it apart a couple of times, but by "resetting" the ride height after lowering it onto the ground (by bouncing it up and down, or driving it a short distance), you can take the new measurement against the old.

Typically, adjusting camber will also adjust toe, just due to the design of most suspension systems, so it's likely the toe will need readjusting anyway...

I'd be lost without my access to a Hunter alignment machine! ;) It's a shame your nearest is at KwikFit!

[Piers1989]

The wheels tuck in as you lower, introducing camber, so we know that the suspension arms aren't equal length. Therefore the amount of camber will change based upon suspension height (ie weight applied), so it needs to be set as per it sat on its wheels, else you may introduce more or less camber at ride height as the suspension moves on its arc.

It may be some trial and error, and taking it apart a couple of times, but by "resetting" the ride height after lowering it onto the ground (by bouncing it up and down, or driving it a short distance), you can take the new measurement against the old.

Typically, adjusting camber will also adjust toe, just due to the design of most suspension systems, so it's likely the toe will need readjusting anyway...

I'd be lost without my access to a Hunter alignment machine! ;) It's a shame your nearest is at KwikFit!

Indeed Garry!

I understand that the camber will change when under weight, but will the change be relative to when lifted? As in will it change in a 1:1 ratio was my question.
Like if I lift, measure, adjust +3, drop - would you expect that to still be +3? I know doing this wouldn't give me any idea of what the camber now was, but if I know that it is X more than it was, that would be enough info to make some adjustments.

Otherwise yes, I was thinking about the lift, adjust, drop, drive, retest approach!

Once I'm happy-ish with the camber, I'll take it to be realigned anyway, so the toe should be corrected. I'll let KwikFit set the front camber once the ball joint is in as looking at how it becomes adjustable I wouldn't imagine them having a problem using that.

In relation to picking the ball joint, after doing some reading, it looks like having a little negative camber is actually desirable? I was thinking about having the wheels aligned to -1 degree all around.
For that I assume this would be suitable (my current readings were -1.53* and -2.11* on the front). https://www.ingallseng.com/35620-adjustable-ball-joint.html
My only concern is that it says 1998-1994 galant, which doesn't exactly match up with production dates as far as I know! It does also list the eclipse though so I'm guessing its correct? It's a fair bit of cash to get 2 and have them shipped from the states to find out they aren't right!

[Confused]

No I don't think it would be a 1:1 mapping - you'd only get that on equal length arms where the camber doesn't change :)

With the measurements from the various joints, it could be calculated... But it's probably quicker to just do it!!

Yes negative camber does have its advantages in some cases, and it will affect the handling of the car - excessive negative camber on the front will change steering weight and self-centering characteristics - again the design means that the camber does change as you turn the wheel, and as the suspension moves up and down.

A VR-4 set up to factory specs does drive and ride fantastically - Mitsubishi did a good job IMO, changing this might change the way out feels, but it might lose some of the refinement if it becomes a bit more "lively"

I set my mum's old MX5 up with quite an aggressive geometry - it turned in and handled brilliantly and gripped well, but when it reached the limit, it went. Whereas as standard, it was slightly less responsive (but still very good) but it was a lot more progressive.

A VR-4 is likely to be at higher speeds when the limit is approaching - I'd rather it be progressive than snappy! ;)


Suspension geometry is an art form, there's no doubt about that!!

[Piers1989]

No I don't think it would be a 1:1 mapping - you'd only get that on equal length arms where the camber doesn't change :)

With the measurements from the various joints, it could be calculated... But it's probably quicker to just do it!!

Yes negative camber does have its advantages in some cases, and it will affect the handling of the car - excessive negative camber on the front will change steering weight and self-centering characteristics - again the design means that the camber does change as you turn the wheel, and as the suspension moves up and down.

A VR-4 set up to factory specs does drive and ride fantastically - Mitsubishi did a good job IMO, changing this might change the way out feels, but it might lose some of the refinement if it becomes a bit more "lively"

I set my mum's old MX5 up with quite an aggressive geometry - it turned in and handled brilliantly and gripped well, but when it reached the limit, it went. Whereas as standard, it was slightly less responsive (but still very good) but it was a lot more progressive.

A VR-4 is likely to be at higher speeds when the limit is approaching - I'd rather it be progressive than snappy! ;)


Suspension geometry is an art form, there's no doubt about that!!

That's very true I love the predictability of the VR4.
Am I reading the printout from KwikFit correctly as showing the stock front camber to be 0 and rear to be -0.8?

[Confused]

Front camber 0°00' +/- 0°30'
Rear camber 1°00' +/- 0°30'

Or, in decimal...

Front: 0.00° +/- 0.5°
Rear: 1.00° +/- 0.5°

There's 60' (minutes) in 1° (degree)

I'm needing to adjust my rear camber by putting some spacers on the top mount on the passenger side too. That tyre wore down quicker than the others due to the increased camber.

76820 76821

(My front toe is actually -0°02 both sides, but I knocked it as I was lowering the ramp before I could take the photo!)