Where is the line?

[Colin Wiltshire]

The line I'm referring to, is the line that a car crosses when it realisticly starts to cost to much to keep it going.

As a lot of you know, I'm getting my 3rd engine. 1st change was when doing manual conversion Nutter John and I found the head gasket starting to go as oil in the rad water. He said was cheaper and easier to swap the engine.

This change of engine is down to the pignion pin?, the 1 at the top of the piston, and also this new (to me) engine has the 262 cams in it.

Got a new battery, as the other 1 would go almost flat in a few days, even with driving it every day, if I didn't drive it say over the weekend, it wouldn't start. Also tightened fan belt as it sounded loose on occasion. Also could of counted towards the flat battery.

Tonight after doing both those things, I've found my 2nd rad has a crack along the top, just like the old 1 I changed over.

I do love this car, but after buying a house just a few months ago, funds are really short at the moment, and I can't afford just to keep throwing money at it. I don't want to get rid of it.

Plus I changed 3 wheel bearings, 3 sets of shocks (2nd hand) now coilovers new last yr. Ben has taken £1700 off me each year for mot and parts it's needed to get through. Plus other things like oil leak from gb (when auto) smokey turbos etc.

Wasn't too much of a problem before, but things have changed in the last few months.


My wife is complaning on the amount of money (she knows of) being spent on it (to keep it going), but that's just the wife not being into cars.

[exevoowner]

I know that it seams a lot of money to spend but if you have any car of the same age you will spend money to get it through a mot,as for changing engines it was luck of the draw with a seconded hand unit if you didnt hear it running in the other car,mine moans about the amount of fuel i use in it lol

[horndog]

It all depends on other hobbies & interests and personal commitments

My line would Definitely be if I were sacrificing things I "NEED" to keep the car (bills etc..)
Then it would be big luxuries - am I sacrificing a holiday for a car? which would I rather have...
Then it would be treats - am I sacrificing 1 night out a month/Sky TV/Monthly clothes budget etc...

dont forget when you work it out - If the VR4 is costing you (for example) £500 per month and another car would cost £200 then you are only sacrificing the Difference of £300 - could that be better spent?


That said, I got rid of mine because of a few big bills, I sort of "fell out of love" with it and p/x for a nice car for the wife and have regretted it since, I was about 2 paydays away from buying it back before it sold on ebay
For what mine actually cost me per month EXTRA to a-n-other car I was stupid not to keep it

[crazydriver81]

Hard to tell exactly, where that line is. It depends on personal circumstances. I see that your situtation has changed due to other commitments and you need to justify for yourself, IF you want to keep it alive or not. Is it worth to throw more good money on already spent "bad" money?

Any other performance car will use similar amounts of fuel, will cost similar insurance fees and will be in need of similar spare parts and servicing. If you are at the point, where an economic (but not performance) car will be sufficient, get rid of the VR-4 and go down that route. On the long term, it will make you happier!

I am lucky enough to have a company car. I would never ever use my VR-4 on a daily basis. This would be a sort of money I do not want to spend.

[BubbaLeggyVR4]

I bought mine when I was in a situation to buy one cheap and could afford to run it.
My line came when I was spending nearly £100 a week on fuel to and from work and little trips, decided to buy summit cheap to run and fix so save money to spend on repairing the Legnum lol
Im lucky cuz I can store it and have another car to use but others aren't

[TAR]

maybe the car you started with wasn't up to the job of being what you want it to be?

Some people have cars which seem to be ultra reliable and others not. I have been fortunate enough to have had 2 very reliable cars, but they have cost me quite a bit for regular servicing with Amsoil.
You are looking for big horse power from yours so a solid engine is a must to begin with. I think you have been unlucky with ones you have had so far. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure if you had the chance again, you would have bitten the bullet and had your original engine rebuilt.

If the car is falling to bits and you can see no end to it, you would be best getting rid of it and keeping the parts for a better car.

Nick Mann has chosen this route with his one.

Our cars will always be expensive to look after, especially if you need to pay a garage to do it.

I hope you don't fall completely out of love with VR4's but it sound like decision time.

I wish you well whatever you decide.

:happy:

[Nick Mann]

Yep, as Tim said, I had a VR4 that was mechanically in pretty good shape but it needed a lot of money spent on the body due to rot. I decided that my time with VR4s was not yet at an end and bought a very clean VR4 and now have a hybrid, good bodywork & a good start on the mechanicals. There will be more to come yet though!

Justifying the money is easy when you have spare funds, but less so when other things are more important in your life. I have been in that position before, and even stepped away from my first VR4 because of it.

It has to be your decision at the end of the day, because only you know how much you have to spend on it and if that will be enough to keep the car running in a way that will keep you happy.

[swinks]

There is no line Colin, or rather it is an individual thing :)
It all depends on your aims and goals with particular vehicle.
As a quick saloon vr4 is not a bad boy, but if you after something more sporty, then it's a very bad choice.
Now you have opportunity to focus on engine and ancilliares. It's a time consuming and funds consuming job, but don't you dare do any shorts or cuts. ;)

As for drivetrain/brakes, that's only servicable components. Galoons/Legnums are getting older and older and things like suspension, wheel bearings, links shocks etc, need to be replaced anyway.

[Colin Wiltshire]

Well, I'm going to keep going with it for now. I just love it too much (when I can put my foot down again lol)

Lets hope this 3rd engine will be a goodun, Nick Mann's on the job, so shouldn't be a bad start.

Also now to decide, new rad, or another 2nd hand 1, to keep me going for a bit.

[MarkSanne]

It seems sensible enough to keep it, especially because of all the things you've done to it, on which you spend hard money on, but the stuff you replaced is the stuff that should live for another 8-10 years. So from such a perspective, you are refreshing your car. Only the typical parts that are prone to wear over the years that your didn't replace already are something to keep in mind.

And as said before: any car this age will get these typical wearage issues on relatively long-lasting parts. And even more so for a performance car!

Last about the rad: now that there's a couple of guys getting their Golpher alu rads (thanks to the groupbuy from Stefan) there should be quite a few stock rads available (or rather soon). If you don't want to spend too much on a new stock one (around 80-100GBP) pick up one of those rads that will be available. Save money now or be done with it for many years with a new one...

[SGHOM]

I wish I'd seen the line in april 2003 when I bought the friggin' thing :( /duh

[Tam]

Hi Colin,

It's been sad hearing what's happening to you and your car, I was well looking forward to seeing it finished, obviously not as much as you.
When I got my second engine of eBay very cheaply without knowing anything of its history I just hoped the bottom end was good because then worst case I could at least make a decent engine out of the two, so far my initial engine us now sitting waiting for me to strip it down and see how bad the bottom end I'd and then hopefully fix it.
Could you mix the two engines and then it's just a gasket set?

Marc

[swinks]

I wish I'd seen the line in april 2003 when I bought the friggin' thing :( /duh
You tell me sir! :)

[exevoowner]

would be intrested in knowing what is up with your engine colin as it sounded ok

[Colin Wiltshire]

would be intrested in knowing what is up with your engine colin as it sounded ok

This change of engine is down to the pignion pin?, the 1 at the top of the piston

While on the rollers at Area 52, the bloke doing the run picked up on it, and had another garage look at it, saying the same thing. Although it sounds ok, there is the knocking sound, I can sometimes hear, also feels like droppinng a cylinder every now and then. You can notice the drop in go (only on cruize, only way I'm driving at mo, easy as possible) and feel the stutter. Just like it came, it goes again. Until next time.

I didn't even notice this before I was told, apart from the odd noise on start up for 2 secs.

[horndog]

This change of engine is down to the pignion pin?, the 1 at the top of the piston.

Gudgeon Pin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudgeon_pin)

[Humpty's Revenge]

I have spent £1000's of pounds on cars over the last 30 years & probably enough to buy a 3 bedroom house & a good business

You cant see the wood for the trees as we all have hobbies

I had already spent 15k getting ready for my roanne red vr4 build & I still had not got everything to make a perfect car....another 8k would of done it

So my question to myself was "CAN I JUSTIFY SPENDING 24K+" on an old japanese estate !!

Simply question was no I couldn't

I have realised over the years you can spend what you like on your hobby "BUT" how long do you intend on keeping the car ??

Also the big factor for me getting out of vr4's is they are a money pit if you have the wrong one plus looking at the over engineering of this cars it was time to walk well away.

And yes they are over engineered but they do look the dogs...

Colin you have gone to far to walk away mate, you will never get the cash back if you break it.

Time to leave it alone when you get you new engine in & starting saving up for something else maybe

Oh see you in May dude... I'll pm you soon

24k now would get me a 1000 bhp r33 Skyline....try that in one of these vr's ??

[Nick Mann]

24k now would get me a 1000 bhp r33 Skyline....try that in one of these vr's ??

Have you seen how f-ugly the skyline estate is? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Humpty's Revenge]

Have you seen how f-ugly the skyline estate is? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

66235

66236

66237

66238

I know which one out of a vr4 & a "RELATED" Skyline estate I would go for Nick...:iloveyou:

[Nick Mann]

Get me a price on the car in the third picture please! /yes

[adaxo]

24k now would get me a 1000 bhp r33 Skyline....try that in one of these vr's ??

For what you need 1000 bhp for? ah its nice sound number :)

Where is the line? there is no line, EVERYONE has different needs/attitude/approach in tuned car world, in my case, ive got my vr4 for about third year now, when I got it my aim was to hit 300hp, two years down the line, got it, but every thing what i done for this car was deeply research/thought before parting with money, so I pay virtually nothing, compare to others for my gains.

My next goal is to squeeze another 50-70 hp from my car within another few years of ownership, it will be tough but IMO is doable (TD04 ring a bell), and the best thing, within a reasonable cost, of course I could stick my car in to tuner workshop and say, do it, and left massive amount of money for it and then moaning how much I spend for how little gain, but hey, where is the fun when you not DIY?

So at the end I will have really good looking car (as it's basically is atm :) with quite bit of powah for (IMO) very reasonable cost, I mean, go and find 4x4 estate pulling about 360 bhp for far FAR less then 10k??

[Humpty's Revenge]

Get me a price on the car in the third picture please! /yes

http://toledorestaurants.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/2011-new-nissan-stagea-wagon-is.html

[Nick Mann]

So that car (or one like it) is $29k without any extra power? It needs to get cheaper before I pop out and buy one! ;)

[Gingerfish]

The older stageas are cheap enough, but the Masa front end kits are pretty expensive. In the region of 4-6k IIRC.

[Nick Mann]

The older ones are fugly. I'll put up with the awkwardness of tuning as I couldn't put up with the bargeness of an older version. I've seen one that looked like the third picture in Steve-exvr-4ish's post in the flesh, and it still has bargeness qualities, but the lines have improved drastically so it looks like a car and not a shed on wheels.

[adaxo]

So that car (or one like it) is $29k without any extra power? It needs to get cheaper before I pop out and buy one! ;)

29k in JP, add taxes and duties and this will probably double in UK

[Nick Mann]

$30k shipped. So in the region of $40k on the road in the UK.

[exevoowner]

colin i know what happened as i was there mate what i dont see is how its failing to cause the knock ? I have a understanding of how engines work and the goings on inside but for what your saying there seams more to it like oil way blockage or injector