One question answered...

[ako]

The great "what are the 6A13 turbos" saga has been answered, by someone doing what anyone could have done a long time ago.

They are identical to the Td-025s found on E84A (7G) VR4's since 1992. A mate from here in NZ looked on CAPS (the mitsi parts database) and the part numbers for every component of the turbos from either car was the same. No change in compressor wheels, nothing.

Which also totally blows a few peoples theories about the stockers being useless - I pushed mine to 16-18psi, ran repeated 12 second 1/4s, and intake temps (@ throttle body) never went over 40 degrees, so even though tiny, the little suckers must be reasonably efficient.

Before you start saying "Oh but your car was a lot lighter" - it was only around 150kilos lighter, had 500cc's less capacity, and a whole lot less fuel to play with. I want to see someone get out there, actually push some decent boost into one of these engines (they have proven being more than capable of absorbing a fair bit of power), and get a good time without resorting to nitrous - before I go out and do it again with the new 7G, and break past the 12.5 barrier :deal2: . The cars can do it, its up the owners if they want to try it..

[-LegnumVR4-]

I'm trying to mod the Legnum as fast as i can to get it into the 12's with no NOS. I'm not a fan of NOS but the results are impressive and we know that the engines can handle a lot of BHP (thanks Dave and Derek!) :thumbsup:

It was fun to watch each time Mark rocked up (mild modded) Ako1 banging it down the strip punching out 12's and then seening a well modded car doing the same. If the 6A12 can do it then the 6A13 should beable to match it or improve on it. Time will tell. :inquisiti

[paulmc]

dont suppose your m8 can get a compressor map for it :2thumbsup

[valmes]

I didnt say they are unable to produce ANY power... but they do have limits!

1/4 miles times depend on many things, not just turbos. Gear ratios, cooling, air-fuel mixture, weight... just some of them.

Well you are the first person to run those times (without NOS) on 6a1X family engined cars!

I did get your point though... :2thumbsup I think on present setup I will be able to manage flat 13 sec run, so I will try to push old units to their limits before I make a change to bigger turbos.

... in order to make a 12.9-13 sec run (on 1580kg car), we need to put down ~300kw or close to 400BHP.

PS: And when you're talking about intake temperatures... I think I saw an aftermarket intercooler on your car?

[valmes]

I don't know if your friend is correct about this... will go to local Mitsu dealer and will try to get numbers and compare them on Monday (for E84A and EC5A/EC5W turbos).

But for now, take a look at pictures below!

Here are the numbers off my turbos(just in case):
49131-04300
49131-04100

Now lets check if there are any TD025 turbos with those numbers... here:
TD025 turbos (http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/catalogs/model.php?base=mitsubishi&pagina=TDO25)

And finally, take a look at last link:
TD03 turbos (http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/catalogs/model.php?base=mitsubishi&pagina=TDO3)

:) One question answered? ;) :evilgrin:

[valmes]

Looks like Volvo T6 (2.9TwinTurbo I6) is using those turbos too or are they bigger?

49131-05101 VOLVO S80 TD03-08G

[zentac]

The great "what are the 6A13 turbos" saga has been answered, by someone doing what anyone could have done a long time ago.

They are identical to the Td-025s found on E84A (7G) VR4's since 1992. A mate from here in NZ looked on CAPS (the mitsi parts database) and the part numbers for every component of the turbos from either car was the same. No change in compressor wheels, nothing.

Which also totally blows a few peoples theories about the stockers being useless - I pushed mine to 16-18psi, ran repeated 12 second 1/4s, and intake temps (@ throttle body) never went over 40 degrees, so even though tiny, the little suckers must be reasonably efficient.

Before you start saying "Oh but your car was a lot lighter" - it was only around 150kilos lighter, had 500cc's less capacity, and a whole lot less fuel to play with. I want to see someone get out there, actually push some decent boost into one of these engines (they have proven being more than capable of absorbing a fair bit of power), and get a good time without resorting to nitrous - before I go out and do it again with the new 7G, and break past the 12.5 barrier :deal2: . The cars can do it, its up the owners if they want to try it..

Sorry but you're wrong I just checked on CAPS and the EC5A turbos are MR299237 and only used on the EC5A and EC5W where as the turbos on the E84A are either MD189855 or MD181381 which are used on a multitude of cars but not the EC5A/W

[valmes]

For those of you who were "lazy" to check the links:

Our Turbos are: MHI TD03-8G (first part is for sure... second derived from what is used on Volvo T6)!!!

[ako]

WEll, I stand corrected then - on the plus side, at least someone has hunted down the proper turbos FINALLY anyway!

Heres a photo of one of my little suckers - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Markyface/13-02-05_11342.jpg

Oh well - we know they're different now I guess... Point still stands though, it MUST be possible. My cooler wasn't aftermarket, it was off an evo lancer, only dropped temps by about 10 degrees or so.

[AllBeItMine]

just as a side note - i weighed my car about a month ago on a weigh bridge at the dump. it weighed 1620kg's... with me and my girlfriend and a half tank of gas...

calculated that the weight of the car is somewhere around the 1460-1480kg mark. thats for a Galant VR4. not sure about the legnums... Thi is how much the docs say the car SHOULD weigh. not sure where you get the 1580 figure from?

so - they weigh about the same as the 7g's.

also - having put mine on the dyno, my car generates the same HP@9psi as a 7g does at 13psi... with similar mods.

lots of potential here. watch this space when i finially get the emanage in and tuned.

now - lets go looking for some info on a TD03-8g. :D

[valmes]

Yes, you are right - it's only 1570 kg for Tiptronic model and 1540 kg for Manual :)

Mitsubishi Legnum Modification VR-4 type S, produced from 1996 (august) (http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/19628/)

Curb vehicle weight, kg 1570

[ako]

There we go then - this is very doable... I'll put my current 7G on the weighbridge as soon as its on the road (rebuilding the gearbox at the moment) and let you know just what the true weight is, do a bit of guesstimating as to just what the 8G will need to be putting out to get these sort of times.

Put it this way - my old 7G was guesstimated at around 1450kilos, plus about 80kilos of me in the drivers seat. That agrees with what other people have weighed theirs in at. To run 12.6 sec / 107mph, most 1/4 calculators reckon I must have been putting out around 340ish hp @ the flywheel, assuming I had a pefect launch etc.. 360-370 hp should enable the 8G to manage the same times, approximately. Also, take into account it makes 40hp more, on 4psi less boost in stock form.

I'm just a fan of "pushing the factory bits" :rolleyes4

[valmes]

2 Ako
Well, your times, have proven that "theories can be wrong". I would never believe that those times can be done on stock 6a12 setup... until I saw your times. :2thumbsup

For some reasons (and I think I know where to look for those "reasons") I've only managed to run 13.54 sec. 1/4 mile. Will try harder. "Unmoded" GTRs can show those kind of times with just mild modifications to the stock setup... and they have better turbos, injectors, fuel pump, intercooler etc. right from the factory! :sad3:

[valmes]

Would anybody be able to contact VolvoTuningUK and inquire about any "turbo upgrade" options available for 2.9L T6 twin turbo models (on S80 sedan or X90 SUV)?

Those cars use turbos that are either same as ours or very close to them...

Look at the part numbers (all are MHI TD03 units):
49131-05101 - Volvo S80 T6
49131-04300 - Mitsubishi Galant/Legnum VR4
49131-04100 - Mitsubishi Galant/Legnum VR4

If there is an option of mating bigger compressor wheel/housing to our existing turbo exhaust housing... or any other option to keep our existing manifolds and get better flowing units in place - then we will have an "easy/mild turbo upgrade path" for our cars :)!

In any case... if they have upgraded turbos on at least one T6 - they would have some valuable info for us! :)

Here is the link to VolvoTuningUK.com (http://www.volvotuninguk.com/volvotuning/frames.asp) (Check out Turbochargers section)

PS: I also found a link that mentions TD03-16G... trying to get info on that one too.

[paulmc]

I gave them a shout yesterday, no reply on the phone so sent email. they have not got back to me yet

[I-S]

Interesting.... There was of course the tie-up with the carisma and the S/V40 (same platform, same factory), and the S/V40 also was available with the mitsubishi GDI engine. Perhaps we find more "common engineering"?

[paulmc]

no good see below,


Hi Paul,

Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortuantely we don't have any turbo upgrade applications for the S80 T6. We can only do direct replacement units.

Regards,
Adam Weber

Director - Chip Tuning Ltd
Tel: 01527 577710

[valmes]

well, back to "custom made"! :)

[Rally205]

Not necessarily Valmes. In the link you posted it shows a 49131-04300 as being fitted to a Mazda. Which Mazda was/is it fiited to?

[valmes]

U bit of an update... or food for thought... :)

Mitsubishi Mitsubishi - - 6A13(R) - TD03-07T 4913104100 MR299236
Mitsubishi Mitsubishi - - 6A13(L) - TD03-07T 4913104300 MR312554

Volvo S80 TD03-08G 49131-05101
Opel VECTRA 1,7D TD03 49131-06003
Volvo S80 T6 49131-05001
Volvo S80 T6 49131-05010

Look over here... TD03 came out in VGT form... interesting...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78155

Opel Mavano 1997- TF035HM-13T 49135-05050
FIAT Ducato (97-) 49135-05050 MIT TF035HM
Ford Transit TDI (00-) 49135-06010 MIT TF035
Ford Transit TDI (00-) 49135-06020 MIT TF035
Mitsubishi Pajero TD2.8 49135-03130 MIT TF035
Mitsubishi Pajero TD2.8 49377-03041 MIT TF035
Mitsubishi Pajero TD2.5 49135-02110 MIT TF035
Mitsubishi L 200 VGT 49135-02652 MIT TF035 HL2-12GK
Mitsubishi L 200 49135-02110 MIT TF035
Mitsubishi CANTER 4M40 TF035HM-12T 49135-03300

...and now the funny part :) New, 2006, twin turbo BMW335 is powered by... TWO Mitsubishi TD03 turbos!!! Haha... :D Legnums and Galants got them 10 years before the Bimmers did:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78155

TD03L-10TK3 49131-07005 they seem to be slightly bigger :) and with a remap and exhaust upgrade they are making 381 bhp on a bimma :)

PS: BTW

BMW 525 TDS (96-) 2,5 D 49177-06451 MIT TD04-13T
BMW 525 TDS (96-) 2,5 D 49177-06581 MIT TD04-13T
BMW 725 TDS (96-) 2,5 D 49177-06571 MIT TD04-13T

[valmes]

One more thing... 8G VR-4 ECU is limited to working with no more than 1 bar of boost (sorry for not going into it... just basic simplified form). That's why most of us didn't see any improvements past 1 bar of boost. Stock ECU just doesn't know what to do up there and dumps all the fuel it can + retards timing by its last cell in the ECU.

There are solutions to this... without going standalone ;)

[valmes]

Hell... what a spur of interest :)

I am long on different turbos, but I though it would be helpful for those who would want to make a "Bolt on turbo upgrade", since you can probably just order the turbocharger cartridge from 335 and insert it into your stock housing (although might require some work... but I think any turbo rebuilder can do it).

...again 2006, twin turbo BMW335 is powered by... TWO Mitsubishi TD03 turbos!!! That was on previous page...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78155

TD03L-10TK3 49131-07005 they seem to be slightly bigger and with a remap and exhaust upgrade they are making 381 bhp on a bimma and propel 335 to 12.6 1/4 mile times.

... and they have already upgraded even stokers:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59611&highlight=TURBO+UPGRADE
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82115

[VR4 MAD]

One more thing.......8G VR-4 ECU is limited to working with no more than 1 bar of boost............

There are solutions to this.............without going standalone ;)

More details please.........must have more details. /Grrr

Very interested to know to what you are referring to here. /rally

Cheers

/toycar

[bradc]

Valmes actually posted some info about the ecu maps on ozvr4. Basically the stock ecu only has a map for up to 1 bar. Above that it doesn't know what is going on, and just pumps as much fuel as possible in.

[valmes]

Mellon mod:
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=251433&page=38&highlight=bypass

Simple and effective :)

If you wanna do it right, here is Ecu re-flash solution:
http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/tech/ecuFLASH/EvoVIII_ECU_LoadValueScaling.pdf

[Kieran]

Val - As always this is useful information, particularly for people like me who will need to replace their turbos at some point and want to keep with the TD03s - Thankyou and have some rep!:scholar:

[valmes]

Thanks Kieran ;)

[Paul C]

will the 335 turbo's just bolt straight on to our engines or is it a case of replacing the internals?

[Kieran]

Looking at the housings I'd say it'd be a case of replacing the internals.