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nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 02:00 AM
my cable arrived today so im able to do some data logging on my car 1997 vr4 legnum manual, so ill post up some pictures of my logs once i get out and do some soon and if anyone can see anything i should look into please let me know. I'm assuming my readings should be close to other peoples readings with the same car.

Also what is knock sum3e and what should that be? should this be up in the 50s? at idle it sits around 4 and keeps jumping to around high 40s without me touching th gas just keeps jumping around but with my foot down its constant high numbers upto 50

also timing advance, is that meant to hit the high 30s? at idle it says its 4-8 then when i put my foot down it gets as high as 36.

the air fuel ratio thing sits at 14.7 at idle and as soon as i touch the gas it goes down to 11s and 12s. is that lean or richer?

the tps shows 11.7 at idle and goes up above 60 when i put my foot down. is this normal readings as well?

im having a play around with it now in my driveway while i wait for the post to come then ill get some petrol and go do some 3rd gear pulls then some first/2nd gear pulls and hopefully it will start doing its thing and maybe something will show up different from the earlier logs

as some of you know the reason im doing this is to try find out why i have a temperamental problem when i drive for a certain time the car doesn't want to run properly over 4,000rpm and i have no idea what it is. it sounds different after 4krpm and has 0 power and the more i drive the worse it gets, but in 3rd gear it pulls and drives fine its only 1st and 2nd where it does this.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 05:25 AM
ok my real main question for now is, fuel trim, it has low med high, i only ever get a reading on fuel trim low which is a solid 4.6875 . . and then there is fuel trim in use which is a solid 4.6875 but through out the log it cuts and shows fuel trim in use 0. and the car wasn't running right and did keep cutting. il upload a photo soon of what im talking about.

but i thought fuel trim in use should be a solid number and never cut out when driving.

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Davezj
10-04-2014, 06:36 AM
try having a look at the first few videos in this thread it goes through ecuFash and evoscan, it covers how to read evoscan logs, and what to log and what you should be looking at.
there are also some links to threads in the second post that show threads where evoscan has been discussed. they might help.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?67698-Basic-Introduction-to-ECUflash-rom-tuning-and-Evoscan-logging&highlight=basic+ecuflash

the knock figure you need to look at is 'Knock sum'

only 'fuel trim low' and 'fuel trim in use' work.
my fuel trim in use flicks between 0-4.688 either on or off.

boost pressure does not work you do not have a boost pressure sensor output that is loggable by evoscan.
ideally 2 byte load is need to be logged as a more detailed version of the 1 byte load, but 1 byte will do. as load vs rpm is how all the ecu fuctions work.
the standard O2 sensor is a norrow band and only gives a 0-1V signal so if you don't have and wideband fitted then you can ignore the AFR logged result, you want to be looking at the O2 sensor that gives the 0V-1V signal representation.
but have a play with it. what you have to remeber is all you are doing is logging data, you are not changing anything. So if you were happy driving your car before then just becase you are logging data does not mean anything is going worng.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 06:57 AM
ill have a look through that link, the knock sum said it only works for 98+ and for before 98 to use knock sum3 and that is what is showing from 1 at idle to upto 50 at foot flat. my car hasnt driving fine ever since i brought it and i cant seem to find out why its so temperamental so im looking for odd temeramental readings and that fuel trim in use keeps cutting and ending at 0 and not sure if this is normal or not same as the tps readings

Davezj
10-04-2014, 07:00 AM
updated my post please read again.

'Knock sum' is the one you sould be looking at.
if you are using high octane fuel 98 or 99 and have standard boost level you should not be getting any knock at all. but if using lower octane fuel 95 you should be expecting to see some knock.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 07:12 AM
like as soon as i put my foot down fuel trim in use says 0 and car runs like crap and the rev range when it runs like crap and fuel trim in use goes to 0 are about the same which is why i think it has something to do with that, iv watched a couple of those videos but they just talk about tuning and i havent found anything about what the fuel trim in use thing means yet but ill keep watching.

Davezj
10-04-2014, 07:16 AM
this is how i found any issues with my car, i logged all senors and perameters that i thought were required then start logging your data, then go for a drive and as soon as the event occurred that you were trying to log, stop the log. then you know you only have to look at the last say 20 seconds of the log data for abnormalities rather than 10's of minutes of data trying to find the events you looking for.
then you can actually say you know the event occured in specific section of data. then you can post it up on hear and some of us can have a look at it a see if we can spot anything obvoius.
you will have to attach the log file as a zip to allow it to be attached.

Davezj
10-04-2014, 07:21 AM
you are better off using throttle position rather than TPS just becasue it is a bit more obvious what you are doing.
max about 96% and min about 12%

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 07:28 AM
updated my post please read again.

'Knock sum' is the one you sould be looking at.
if you are using high octane fuel 98 or 99 and have standard boost level you should not be getting any knock at all. but if using lower octane fuel 95 you should be expecting to see some knock.

cheers, they only have 95 octane here and its running 7psi. the "knock sum" doesnt show any readings not even 0. "knock sum3e" shows heaps of numbers from 1-50

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 07:32 AM
this is how i found any issues with my car, i logged all senors and perameters that i thought were required then start logging your data, then go for a drive and as soon as the event occurred that you were trying to log, stop the log. then you know you only have to look at the last say 20 seconds of the log data for abnormalities rather than 10's of minutes of data trying to find the events you looking for.
then you can actually say you know the event occured in specific section of data. then you can post it up on hear and some of us can have a look at it a see if we can spot anything obvoius.
you will have to attach the log file as a zip to allow it to be attached.

i have a log here of my first gear pull i did just before then stopped it straight after. ill figure out how to attach it as a zip.

my throttle posistion shows about 11.9% to about 96.5% so that seems to be good.

Davezj
10-04-2014, 07:33 AM
like as soon as i put my foot down fuel trim in use says 0 and car runs like crap and the rev range when it runs like crap and fuel trim in use goes to 0 are about the same which is why i think it has something to do with that, iv watched a couple of those videos but they just talk about tuning and i havent found anything about what the fuel trim in use thing means yet but ill keep watching.

Yes the videos are aimed at tuning the ecu, but it does go through how to read an evo scan log, in excel.
personally i use the botton under the logging start stop button to view my logs as a graphs of the data. the it is very easy to view lots of graphs on top of eachother.
this function not now not as user friendly as it used to in 2.7 bit you have to learn how to use it.
push the button, go to bottom left of window, Load #1 log button, and load the log you want to view.
wait for it to load, klick on the chart menu at the top of the windowthese are all the data types you can view, scroll down to the bottom of the window and te last set of axis are the ones the data will be displayed on.
start by switching some of the data on and off and then place your cursor over the graphs and it wil display the actual data being shown at that point on all the graphs that are switched on at that point. you can drag the cursor over the graph to see how it changes with time to see the actuall data cptured.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 07:38 AM
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did this work for my data log?

guess not ill try again lol

Davezj
10-04-2014, 07:41 AM
cheers, they only have 95 octane here and its running 7psi. the "knock sum" doesnt show any readings not even 0. "knock sum3e" shows heaps of numbers from 1-50

'knock sum' is the one you want to be looking at and it should read 0 if it is being logged, do you acually have it ticked, if not then it will not show 0, you have to have the data types ticked when you are actully logging otherwise the data field will remain blank.
i don't have 'knock sum 3E' ticked so the value is blank for me.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 07:44 AM
67382

and this is another log i done, see how the fuel trim keeps cutting in and out. is this why it feels like fuel cut but sometimes it doesnt come back on and has the power loss untill i take my foot off the gas and change gear.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 07:46 AM
oh i didnt have it ticked the last logs, earlier logs i did and it showed 0 but went to 2 once. ill remember that for my next run tomorrow.

all my eariler logs with knock sum all read 0 which is good, the 2 things i was worried about was bad knocking or running way to lean. so now i just need to find why its not running right.

Davezj
10-04-2014, 08:01 AM
i will have a look at the log and see if there is anything obvious.
do you have a log that shows the issue in the last few seconds of the log so i know where to look. you said you had one and then uploaded 2 different logs.

Davezj
10-04-2014, 08:14 AM
i have just looked at one of my old logs and it looks likr the fuel trim in use drop to 0 when under hard acceleration this is normal operation.

i am not sure about this but i think fuel trim in use is showing how much the fuel is being reduced by not increased by. so when it goes to 0 it is giving as much fuel as it can. it is not taking any fuel away.

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 08:28 AM
oh i see, hmm. my problem is from 3500rpm to red line it either jerks like its constantly on and off fuel cut, or it has no power at all and has a different noise the engine. i tried getting a video but you cant hear anything. but at 4k+ it sounds not normal it stops pulling and its just all over the show. heres the video anyway if u keep watching it over and over you might be able to see it sounds real different. it looks like its reving fine but has no power and defiantly isnt running right. because it runs good when i first take it out.

tomorrow ill try get a video of it running good first thing in the morning and try get as much as i can


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgvvpUdaNlM


ill get my gf to come with me tomorrow when i go driving and get her to press the stop and start button on the data logging so she can stop it straight after it acts up.

Davezj
10-04-2014, 12:08 PM
oh i see, hmm. my problem is from 3500rpm to red line it either jerks like its constantly on and off fuel cut, or it has no power at all and has a different noise the engine. i tried getting a video but you cant hear anything. but at 4k+ it sounds not normal it stops pulling and its just all over the show. heres the video anyway if u keep watching it over and over you might be able to see it sounds real different. it looks like its reving fine but has no power and defiantly isnt running right. because it runs good when i first take it out.

tomorrow ill try get a video of it running good first thing in the morning and try get as much as i can


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgvvpUdaNlM


ill get my gf to come with me tomorrow when i go driving and get her to press the stop and start button on the data logging so she can stop it straight after it acts up.

i can't really see anything wrong in the log but you have not really logged the all the data values you need barometric sensor is a good one, knock sum, TPS, load 1 byte or load 2 byte mod, speed, etc.

I have just been listening to the video, when you get to about 4000 rpm are you getting a ssshhhhh sound like air escaping. the only thing i can thinnk of it you have a boost leak.
can you get a boost leak test done, what boost are you getting, is it lower than you expect e.g. are you getting 0.7 bar at the start of the run and is it dropping to 0.5 bar at 4000 rpm

nos monkeys
10-04-2014, 01:54 PM
iv checked for a boost leak but it was fine and the mitsi place said it didnt have one as well, i still need to buy a new boost gauge because i dont think mine works it only shows 5psi and they said its running 7 psi but its a manual so should be 9psi

Davezj
10-04-2014, 04:18 PM
yes a boost gauge is useful, just connect it to the smaller of the two vacuum/boost pipes that are coming of the back of the plenum chamber by the throttle body. the larger one is vacuum assist for the brake servro the pipe for that has a one way valve inside the pipe don't bin this pipe and replace it, unless you replce the one way valve in the new pipe. the smaller pipe goes to the front of the car and down to the recirc vent valve for the turbo. put the T piece in this pipe and run it to the gauge. don't use the pipe coming off the front of the throttle body as this goes to the fuel pressure regulator solenoid and you don't want to disrupt this vac/pressure.

just thought i would pass this on to you

nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 12:08 AM
Thanks for that. when it stops raining ill take the boost gauge from my legnum and put in my 300 to double check its the gauge broken, im only going by what the mitis mechanic told me so not 100% sure its the gauge, but i did do a boost leak myself and it was good.

Will go out now warm my car up and take as many videos as i can befor ei run out of memory and get some better data logs ending as it runs rough.

Davezj
11-04-2014, 12:17 AM
look forward to seeing the videos and logs, and it make perfect sense to test the boost gauge, before forking out for a new one.

when doing a boost leak test there are lots of areas of the boost pipe system which can get missed out and not checked when they are done. did you spray all the pipework with soapy water to show up the leaks or did you just listen for leaks. you can still have some major leaks and not know about it if you don't spray all the connections with soapy water.

nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 04:13 AM
i didnt actually spray it with soapy water but it held 5psi without dropping and i couldnt hear any noises. where as the same day i done a boost leak on my 300zx it lost all pressure pretty quick and that had a few leaks and some small ones and the vr4 defiantly was better than my 300, and my 300 still holds 9psi boost and drives without problems and since this problem is so tempermental i dont think it would be a boost leak unless its only leaking on occasion somehow.

some reason my logs i done before were all weird but have just been out and redone them with some videos havent looked at them yet but will edit this and post them on here, out of the runs i done twice it ran fine, not sure which logs they were though i forgot but it would be in the first half, but otherwise it didnt really run 100% though out all the logs and videos.

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nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 05:43 AM
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here is a link to the video, will update this soon with particular times to look as sometimes it runs ok then it doesnt so you can hear the difference in engine noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m_4aGhfUaU&feature=youtu.be

start of video first pull it ran okish then skip to 1:05 and listen to the difference also again at 1:40 at 2:00 from 4k till 5k it done it but the power came back at 5k just as i changed gear, you might be able to hear the tone of the engine go from good bad good. 2:15 it kept going on off on off on off but hard to tell on video. i think the last pull was also when it was running semi normal but its really hard to tell what is normal now . . . .

it acts up sound different and this is my problem, this is only a minor bit it does get worse but its very tempermental and i havent managed to get it doing it bad on camera or log.

if the logs are ok and you have no idea by the video, would coils/plugs/leads breaking down show on the log in any way? i was thinking of replacing the rear 3 plugs but thats really all i can afford $60 for 3 plugs is like a week and a half of my spending money lol and at least then i can change the front ones later one. but not sure if i should try get some leads to replace while im at it although no idea how expensive they are. i dont really have any idea what it is


iv just been and checked that boost gauge on my 300 and its reading what it should, well my gf said it was about 8-9psi and its running 9.5 so its close enough and showing over 5psi which is the max in the legnum. now why did the mitsi dealership tell me there is no boost leaks its running 7psi and my gauge is broken, and how and where did they even pull the 7psi figure. . .my boost gauge is hooked up to behind the plenum where it is meant to be there are no kinks in the vacuum line or splits. even when i pulled the wastegate lines off so it was free boosting it still never read over 5 psi. . . not sure what is going on with this car. . . i defiantly brought that guys problems and i really want to go rip his face off. i have 2 months before the baby is due the amount of money i have spent on this to get it all ready now iv got no move savings and still not a reliable trust worthy car which i dont like driving incase it blows. so far this has costed me 8,000 nzd and still nothing special. :(

Davezj
11-04-2014, 10:07 AM
sorry, it is a bit pointless listening to the videw as that rattling masks the sound of the engine.
can you stop what ever is rattling for rattling and do the video again.
are you videoing it with a video camera or a phone, it sounds like and old video camera as these often had problems with internal noise due to the mechanical image stablisation methed they used. if you shook the camera too much you would get parts hitting eachother inside the camera and this noise would be added to the recording. my camera does the same thing on track days.
sorry but i can't hear anything different, all i can hear is the rattling.

as for your boost gauge, i think the issue is the way it has been connected to the vac/boost line on the plenum, i have see some boost gauges come with a T piece that has a wide freee flow of air throum the straight part of the T piece and then a very small pipe coming off this which goes to the gauge. the pipe is just not big enough and restict the pressure getting to the gauge. check yous and replace it for and equal size T piece on all entry/exits.
i have seen also just bad installs where the worng size pipe has been used and tape has been wrapped round the T piece to build up the diameter of the T piece to make the oversized pipe fit on to it, but the tape has been applied very badly and partially blocked the opening in the T piece.

buy the way the smaller exit on the T piece was used to try and smooth out the response of the gauge so it does not bounce around and overshoot the correct reading. which is understandable but the exit is just to small.

fixing other people mistakes (by this i mean the previous owner) is never a nice thing to do, you just have to make yourself think like the person that made the mistake originally and try and make as many bad decisions as you can to try and get into the mind set of the person that made the mistake in the first place, to see if you can find the issue.

nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 10:44 AM
the boost gauge isnt t-d in anywhere it has its own vacuum line ill grab a photo of the vacuum port its on tomorrow, it was probably the camera hitting on the plastic on my dash ill try get better videos.

Davezj
11-04-2014, 10:50 AM
i have been having a look at you logs and i have realised the 1 byte load does not seem to work on at all in evo scan but you do have the ECUload logged and this reaches about 140 load so if this value is correct then you should be boosting to about 0.7-0.8 bar i is a little tricky to say for sure as i don't use the ecu load figure i use the load 2 byte mod and i don't know if these two figure match up.

i can't see any obvious issues with the logs to be perfectly honest wth you.
however first gear logs are not the best to do, it is much better t do a third gear log jst from the point of view everything happens so much slower and more data points can be recorded as things change.
in your logs, you only have about 4 data point over the 4K-5K rev range where you say the issue is, this is not enough data the rpm point are about 3900, 4250, 4500, and 5000, it is like watching a film and only seeing one fromae of the movie every second, you don't get the full picture.

TAR
11-04-2014, 05:53 PM
I would put my money on the spring in the dump valve being weak. I think the dump valve may be letting by air at high boost.
Do you have another dump valve you could try?

Davezj
11-04-2014, 07:32 PM
tim have you got your cable yet?
the offer of the mmcflash dongle still stands when ever you want it.

nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 11:26 PM
i have been having a look at you logs and i have realised the 1 byte load does not seem to work on at all in evo scan but you do have the ECUload logged and this reaches about 140 load so if this value is correct then you should be boosting to about 0.7-0.8 bar i is a little tricky to say for sure as i don't use the ecu load figure i use the load 2 byte mod and i don't know if these two figure match up.

i can't see any obvious issues with the logs to be perfectly honest wth you.
however first gear logs are not the best to do, it is much better t do a third gear log jst from the point of view everything happens so much slower and more data points can be recorded as things change.
in your logs, you only have about 4 data point over the 4K-5K rev range where you say the issue is, this is not enough data the rpm point are about 3900, 4250, 4500, and 5000, it is like watching a film and only seeing one fromae of the movie every second, you don't get the full picture.


I'll grab some 3rd gear pull logs later this week although i dont think iv ever had a problem in any of those gears its just 1st and sometimes 2nd but i could be wrong.

nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 11:28 PM
I would put my money on the spring in the dump valve being weak. I think the dump valve may be letting by air at high boost.
Do you have another dump valve you could try?

you mean blow off valve? i only have my stock ones on my 300zx, the one on my vr4 is a blitz one and this could be the problem but don't have money to switch it over and check, although this valve is adjustable i might try tighten it. the only problem i noticed with my blow off valve is im not sure if its normal since iv never had one before but if i rev the car and it goes pshhh the blow off valve doesnt close fully after untill i hit the gas again, its done this since forever i did pull it apart and lube it up but still done it, it shuts fully as soon as i touch the gas pedal though not sure if this is normal.

here are pictures of where my boost gauge is connected to, and also where my blow off valve is connected to. please let me know if i should reroute any.

67417 this is my blow off valve
67418 this is where the vacuum line for it goes to.
67419 this is my boost gauge line

Davezj
11-04-2014, 11:30 PM
odd that it should only do it in the lower gears.

do you have an origional recirc turbo valve, it really should have a recirc type on there. it is well work checking, or even just swap the one you have on you other car to do a test, it could well be an issue with the spring rate as it is an after market BOV.

nos monkeys
11-04-2014, 11:38 PM
yeah thats what i thought, but then again since its noticable in the lower gears im not actually sure its running 100% in the higher gears it might just be less noticeable, but i can get off the clock from 3rd-4th -5th without any noticeable problems yet if i pull over and try from first all hell breaks loose.

Also it seems to do it more if im cruising for awhile and then decide to give it gas in first, like if iv just done 10kms sitting at 100km cruising nicely then pull up and try take off in first thats when it seems to be worse, but if im going around corners putting my foot down heaps in 3rd and just having some fun it doesnt do it as bad when i take off in first. which is why i thought maybe a stuck regulator where it gets use to sitting at cruising speed then cant adjust fast enough when it hits boost. and because it had been disconnected for 8months because the previous owners had no idea about nothing.

il go out now and tightening the spring in my blow off valve and see if it makes a difference i might try find a recirc valve also, mine has one on there but the vacuum line port on it is snapped off flush so wouldnt be able to use it. they never took it out and blocked it off, although i dont think it leaked during the boost leak test

Davezj
12-04-2014, 10:07 AM
deleted post

Davezj
12-04-2014, 10:15 AM
you mean blow off valve? i only have my stock ones on my 300zx, the one on my vr4 is a blitz one and this could be the problem but don't have money to switch it over and check, although this valve is adjustable i might try tighten it. the only problem i noticed with my blow off valve is im not sure if its normal since iv never had one before but if i rev the car and it goes pshhh the blow off valve doesnt close fully after untill i hit the gas again, its done this since forever i did pull it apart and lube it up but still done it, it shuts fully as soon as i touch the gas pedal though not sure if this is normal.

here are pictures of where my boost gauge is connected to, and also where my blow off valve is connected to. please let me know if i should reroute any.

67417 this is my blow off valve
67418 this is where the vacuum line for it goes to.
67419 this is my boost gauge line

your bov is connected to the wrong place, it needs to be connected to the plenum chanber where your boost gauge is connected to.
when you lift off the throttle the bov vac line is not seeing a propper vacuum as it is connected to the turbo side of the throttle body. when the throttle body closes it is supposed to create imediate vacuum to the BOV and release the pressure in the turbo pipes. but when you lift off the accelerator and the throttle body closes the bov is still seeing the pressure in the turbo pipes. you need to get this plumbed in correctly before doing anything else.
this is why it is not working propperly, nothing to do with a faulty valve.

Davezj
12-04-2014, 11:05 AM
il go out now and tightening the spring in my blow off valve and see if it makes a difference i might try find a recirc valve also, mine has one on there but the vacuum line port on it is snapped off flush so wouldnt be able to use it. they never took it out and blocked it off, although i dont think it leaked during the boost leak test

i am not sure what you mean be this statement.
please tell me you don't mean you have two valves fitted one BOV and one broken Recir original with no vac line going to it.

fassi1
12-04-2014, 01:18 PM
Regarding fuel trims.
I would recommend to get some basic knowladge which will massively help to understand and read any kind of logs.
"Open loop, closed loop, cut off, long term fuel trim, short term fuel trim" are definitely the ones must know.
Our ECUs switch from closed loop to open loop very often and that's when fuel trims start changing.
Parameters like duty cycle or injector pulse width and oxygen sensor sygnal (voltage) are very handy too when logging.

nos monkeys
13-04-2014, 08:27 AM
i am not sure what you mean be this statement.
please tell me you don't mean you have two valves fitted one BOV and one broken Recir original with no vac line going to it.

the top of the bov has a bolt and allen key bit which adjusts the spring inside so it either becomes easier to open or harder, and i thought that's where its meant to go yesterday i actually put the bov line on where the boost gauge is as well and t-d it there but it didnt work at all i think the vacuum line i had was to small though, ill get some bigger vacuum line and redo it there and while im at it ill replace the vacuum line going to my boost gauge for some bigger stuff and see if that fixes it. what size vacuum line should i be using for the boost gauge and bov? i think the stuff which is connected to it is 4mm

and yes thats what im saying lol it has the blitz bov fitted how it is now and then it still has the stock recirc valve that has a broken vacuum line but its still plumbed in. it is on my list to find some blanking plugs to take the stock recirc valve out. and just to remind you this was all fitted before i brought the car lol you should of seen how the boost controller was connected this car was a mess and i didnt even know how bad since it was my first turbo so fitting all this stuff is new. i did the best to bring it back to how it is stock, will get the bov fixed this week and try find some blanking plugs and remove the stock valve

TAR
13-04-2014, 09:28 AM
The 2 dump valves will definitely be causing an issue. You must get rid of the old recirc one and blank off the pipes. No amount of evoscn logs will help fix a car which is not plumbed up right!
:happy:

Davezj
13-04-2014, 12:19 PM
i agree totally with tim. no point of doing anything else before you get rid of the original valve.
4mm or 5mm vacuum/boost tube should be fine to use. as long as it is good quality tube and will not squash under vacuum.
connect the blitz BOV vac pipe to where the gauge is connected via a T piece with equal size bores. Back off the spring in the BOV so it is at a minimum setting see if it works and then incrmentally tighten it up until it holds the boost level you are currently running. but as said it is pointless doing this untill you get rid of the the broken original recirc valve.

the vac boost line does not just open the valve at the correct time bit it also keeps the valve closed until the trottle body is closed and vacuum is applied to the valve.
when the valve is under boost pressure the the same pressure is applied to each side of the valve opening piece via the big boost pipe and the small vac/boost pipe so the spring inside the valve keeps the opening part closed, due to the fact of the equal pressure from both sides. but when the vacuum is applied to the small vac/boost pipe it creates an unequal pressure difference and the boost pressure is now able to overcome the spring pressure and push the opening part of the valve open which releases the boost pressure.
So if there is no vac/boost pressure there is only the spring inside the recic valve that will hold the boost pressure back on the pipe so this is where you are leaking pressure from and why you have limited boost pressure.

well that is what i think is happening.

nos monkeys
14-04-2014, 12:30 AM
thanks and thats what i think as well, i have some 4mm silicone hose which was attached to the boost controller i ripped off and that's what i used to put the bov on the other day but even at the loosest setting on the bov it didnt work, ill just say that line isnt any good so im going down to the shop today if i have enough money and buying more line to connect that up and see if they sell blanking plugs to take the old bov off.

Will get all this sorted then come back with the result :)

i just measured that hose i used and the inside hole is barely 2mm, no idea why they brought such small hose. will try and get all this fixed soon im not hoping it will fix all my problems but its got to be a step forward

nos monkeys
14-04-2014, 04:52 AM
i got it all done, but not sure if my bov is better or worse before it use to go off at like 1500/2k rpm now it wont go off till well after 3k? is this normal i have it set on the lightest spring rate. im about to go take it for a drive and see if its better or worse

Badger_01
14-04-2014, 05:14 AM
i got it all done, but not sure if my bov is better or worse before it use to go off at like 1500/2k rpm now it wont go off till well after 3k? is this normal i have it set on the lightest spring rate. im about to go take it for a drive and see if its better or worse

Much more normal haha, thats why i was surprised when driving it and the bov went off in the lower rev range

nos monkeys
14-04-2014, 05:36 AM
Much more normal haha, thats why i was surprised when driving it and the bov went off in the lower rev range

yeah it would go off all the time lol, ok i just went for a drive. . . . its alot worse than ever everytime i change gear the car stalls and i have to start it again. the bov everytime it goes csssh it sticks open full way more than before and takes much more for it to close again, which is why i think it stalls every time i change gear. and when i put my foot down it ran so bad, it did run how it has been when it ran like crap but it did it al the time and i only put my foot down twice then im like nah this cant be good for it lol.

i havent got money to get a new bov or buy another recirc valve so ill just hook it back upto how it was before since it didnt cause it to stick open as much as it does now.

no idea if my boost gauge is working properly now either now the stock recirc valve is blocked up because its running worse than before. at least now ill take it out tomorrow and get some videos because this is what it done to me since iv got it just never this bad and was only minor.

i dont even bloody know.

Tomorrow ill pull my bov off again pull it right apart give it a clean check it all out to see if anything looks out of place and hopefully fix it from sticking, also ill try grab a video of how it runs since it does it way worse than normal. but i think because now iv blocked the stock recirc valve and its getting full boost ( i think ) is making the engine play up worse. it could be the plugs but i cant afford to just go out and buy plugs if thats actually not the problem so ill get a video and see what you think. hopefully i can sort out this bov from sticking open as well, i even tried it without the boost gauged t'd in but didnt make a difference

swinks
14-04-2014, 10:10 AM
Still, your location of bov is... yhm... let's name it gently, silly.
First, you should have only one valve to dump excessive air. You have to choose between recirculating dv or vent to air bov. You can't have both.
Second, dv or bov location should be as close to throttle body as possible and after intercooler to increase response time and desired effect.
So my suggestion is to:
- choose option dv vs. bov
- return to stock intercooler pipe prior to intercooler
- fit choosen option dv/bov into stock designated place and provide vacuum feed from source after throttle body (intale plenum chamber)

Or... ignore all above being said and plague forum with more billions threads... ;)

nos monkeys
14-04-2014, 11:32 AM
yeah i thought it was in a silly place as well, im thinking of finding a cheap stock valve and putting it on but then i need to buy another stock hose to replace where my bov is, then i can just sell off the bov and try recoupe some money. there is a guy that has a few legnums hes wrecking im going to go see him and see if any are vr4s and how much he'd want for them bits. my stock valve has a broken vaccum nipple so cant reuse that =[

nos monkeys
18-04-2014, 04:35 AM
still cant get a video without that noise, not sure how to attach my camera without taping it to the dash, ill keep trying though but when i took it out today it ran fine 80% the time. also i blanked the stock recirc valve off and cleaned the other bov and tried that i think with that stock valve blocked my boost gauge sometimes reads 7psi but really hard to tell.

when the rain stops ill try another boost leak on it and check

done another boost leak, everything seems to be ok i used soapy water, my bov is leaking the tinyest bit that that will be fine. the biggest leak is at the back on the engine down and behind the throttle body. any ideas what could be leaking down there? here is a video of it, sorry its dark but half way through it shows where abouts the hissing is. also my boost gauge reads what my boost leak tester reads so it definatly isnt broken.

this is pretty much where my 300zx has its boost leak as well and no idea what it is because cant see anything and i sprayed everywhere but still no luck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5hGmrGzSI&feature=youtu.be

Nick Mann
18-04-2014, 08:46 AM
The bov reference line and turbo actuator lines are down there. Id suggest that it is probably not the actuator line though. It could also be the plastic elbow to the throttle body connection, there is a rubber seal on there which is sometimes tricky to make sit right.

swinks
18-04-2014, 09:15 AM
And more... rear bank injector seals

nos monkeys
18-04-2014, 09:49 AM
i checked bov lines and wastegate lines and wasnt them, wasnt the throttle body bend bit either seemed to be abit lower than that, how do i know if its the injector seals? im going to take my plenum off soon to replace the back 3 plugs and might try check the injector seals then.

when the car is running it sounds like a vacuum leak is there as well like really bad as if a vacuum line has fallen off but not sure if there is any that low apart from the wastegate line, i just assumed it was the engine sucking in air but now it could be a big leak

also if anyone has a link to remove the intake plenum could you post on here please, i had a look through the archives but couldnt find it.

Davezj
18-04-2014, 11:27 AM
doing a boost leak thest does not mean just spary a tiny amount of soapy water where you know there is a leak to prove it you must systematically go round every joint and seal in the system and spray it to see if there is a leak, and when you find one leak you fix that one and then repeat the boost leak test.
If you find a big leak, stop the test fix it, retest all the joint and seal you have alread tested and carry on until you find the next leak.
if you want to test the injector seals, spray the injector seals. you don't have to remove anything apart from the engine cover to do that. if you are not confident about removing the engine cover don't even consider doing anything else on you car.

by the way where are you feeding the compressed are into the turbo pipe work for the boost leak test?
i ask this because it sound like you are in over you head already, with regard working on you car. it might sound like i am being a bit harsh but you have made some fundimental mistakes and have not given the sort of information that makes help you very easy in any way. you have to remember we only know what you tell us we are not mind reads. we can only assume you car is factory stock unless you tell us otherise. but we are getting there with this issue, and i am sure it will get resolved. We all want to help you resolve this issue you are having, I can see how frustrating it is for you, but just have to keep going with it, i have only said what I have said above as I want to be realistic in the amount of stuff you are able to do on the car. There is no point in going through loads of stuff you would not even think of taking on, so if we are going to far with stuff or there is stuff you don't understand just tell us and we can explain it or tackle it in a different way.

Air is like water and like electricity, it will escape through the path of least resistance, and boost leak test will find the biggest leak first (least resistance) then when that is fixed it will find the next biggest leak and when that is fixed the next biggest and so on. just because a jointor seal was no showing a leak first time you did the test does not mean it will not be leaking the next time you do the test.
you just have to decide when to stop fixing the leaks, all forced induction engine car will leak to certain extent it is up to you when you a satisfied that the size of the leak is not work worrying about. i normally stop when it is only the idle control screw and the throttle body shaft seals that are still leaking.

that is why i do not believe anyone that says they have done a boost leak test and do not have any leaks, unless they have just rebuilt every part of the engine related to the air inlet system with all new parts gaskets and seals, and i don't know anyone that has done that.

now the question is, have you removed one of your bov/recirc valves yet?
as i believe it was said above that it is pointless trying to do anything else on this issue until ou have corrected this issue. if your original recirc valve sis still fitted and has no vac/boost pipe connected to it this you will leak boost pressure internally into the pre turbo air intake pipes, and it not something you will see with a boost leak test.

Davezj
18-04-2014, 11:47 AM
still cant get a video without that noise, not sure how to attach my camera without taping it to the dash, ill keep trying though but when i took it out today it ran fine 80% the time. also i blanked the stock recirc valve off and cleaned the other bov and tried that i think with that stock valve blocked my boost gauge sometimes reads 7psi but really hard to tell.

when the rain stops ill try another boost leak on it and check

done another boost leak, everything seems to be ok i used soapy water, my bov is leaking the tinyest bit that that will be fine. the biggest leak is at the back on the engine down and behind the throttle body. any ideas what could be leaking down there? here is a video of it, sorry its dark but half way through it shows where abouts the hissing is. also my boost gauge reads what my boost leak tester reads so it definatly isnt broken.

this is pretty much where my 300zx has its boost leak as well and no idea what it is because cant see anything and i sprayed everywhere but still no luck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5hGmrGzSI&feature=youtu.be

That is a massive leak, if the air you can hear in the video is what escaping from the leak and not what is flowing through the regulator you have fitted.
What pressure are you using to test for a leak it should not be any more than a few psi higher than the boost pressure you want to be running when under maximum boost pressure at wide open throttle (WOT).
The majority of leaks you fix with a boost leak test should be leaks you can't actually hear escaping from the pipework. If you can hear a leak, it is a big leak.

nos monkeys
18-04-2014, 12:48 PM
yeah i removed the stock recirc valve and blanked off the holes, couldnt use that because the broken vacuum line so had to stick with the one on there, and i done it to 5 psi and i took the intercooler hose off the end of the y pipe and did the pressure leak from there.

everything on this car is now stock i removed all the other junk the only thing which is still fitted is the blitz bov because i couldnt re use the stock recirc valve and the boost gauge which are both fitted on right.

I can't spray the back injectors there hidden under the intake? where do you think that massive leak is coming from im not sure what is behind and under that side of the intake plenum

Davezj
18-04-2014, 03:10 PM
right what did you plack off,
did you block off the input and output from the recirc valve the input comes from the intercooler output pipe and the output goes to the front turbo input.
Depending if the pipe is still connect to the plenum did you block off the small vac/boost pipe.

as for the joint and seals to check, Spray all the joints/seals you can see. even if you can see the rear injector seals you know where they are as they are mirrored from front to back so look at the fronts and guess where the rear ones are and spray the area if they are leaking then you should hear them bubbling if they are leaking. but below are some points you should beable to test for leaks.

throttle body to plenum, there should be a gasket between the to.
plenum to inlet manifold
throttle body to butteryfly valve shaft
pipes on back of plenum
pipe on front of plenum
frp solenoid pipe in front of throttle body
boost solenoid pipe in front of throttle body
wastegate pipe and T piece.
turbo elbow to throttle body
pipes coming off turbo elbow.
pipe from plenum to original wastegate.
plus others, but try these for starters.

you will just have to spray every joint you can see and every moving part in the area.

nos monkeys
18-04-2014, 11:12 PM
right what did you plack off,
did you block off the input and output from the recirc valve the input comes from the intercooler output pipe and the output goes to the front turbo input.
Depending if the pipe is still connect to the plenum did you block off the small vac/boost pipe.

as for the joint and seals to check, Spray all the joints/seals you can see. even if you can see the rear injector seals you know where they are as they are mirrored from front to back so look at the fronts and guess where the rear ones are and spray the area if they are leaking then you should hear them bubbling if they are leaking. but below are some points you should beable to test for leaks.

throttle body to plenum, there should be a gasket between the to.
plenum to inlet manifold
throttle body to butteryfly valve shaft
pipes on back of plenum
pipe on front of plenum
frp solenoid pipe in front of throttle body
boost solenoid pipe in front of throttle body
wastegate pipe and T piece.
turbo elbow to throttle body
pipes coming off turbo elbow.
pipe from plenum to original wastegate.
plus others, but try these for starters.

you will just have to spray every joint you can see and every moving part in the area.


yes the inlet and outlet of the stock recric valve is what i blanked off, the small vac/boost line your taking about is the one from the stock recirc back to behind the intake next to the wastegate line? that's been disconnected and blocked off.

if the rain holds off ill check a few more things, most those i have checked and were good but there is 1 or 2 i havent.

Davezj
18-04-2014, 11:37 PM
so you should be ready for everything to work.
if you still getting a air leak at the back of the throttle body, you just need to ensure the spray nozzel is wide angle spray and spray everything, you will cause any problems, i have done this loads of times, just look for the bubbles when it sprayed over the leak. i can't see how you can miss a leak if you can physically hear a leak occuring.
one thing you might want to do is to undo the bolt that holds the suppression capacitor down and the two connectors in a bracket in front of the throttle body. this will allow you to see the fpr solenoid and the factory boost solenoid. as you say it is all factory spec appart from the BOV now there should be no unconnected pipes in that area, my bet would be there is a disconnected pipe in that location, it normally is due to the owner not knowing how to plum in a MBC or EBC, and they leave something disconnect that should be connected.
i am not saying you have left things disconnected but the previous owner of the car does not seem to have been the brightest button in the box, or just not been bothered. but i can see you want things to be right with you car and are will to slog on with fixing.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 12:18 AM
yeah thats what it was like when i brought it the mbc was on wrong and so many lines off, i have checked the fpr and boost solenoid and they are ok, need to wait for the rain to stop then ill get back out there. and ill take a torch with me so i can see behind there, last night when i done it it was a tad dark so couldnt actually see much.

Davezj
19-04-2014, 12:35 AM
i seem to remember the boost control solenoid was completely disconected when you bought the car so there was no boost control at all. the boost pressure must have shot up to about 1.5 bar and then slowly dropped off to about 1 bar at 6500 rpm. well it could have done that if the fuel cut limit had been raised. but i presure when you pressed the accelerator it hit fuel cut almost straight away, and you had to be really carefull how you drove the car to keep it from fuel cutting every time you touched the accelerator.
or did the fact that there were two turbo valves fitted kill this extra boost.

If this is true then you know the turbos do boost to higher pressures that you are seeing now, and it just a case of getting the boost control sorted out.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 12:50 AM
yeah im not actually sure, but it was free boosting and it hit fuel cut instantly and i never knew what it was then i joined on here and got that sorted, but the thing that worrys me is the owners who sold it to me said they brought the car like it was and had it for 2 years driving it daily so this 140,000km engine has probably clocked up way to much abuse, thats why im really worried about all these problems and it not running right.

the boost gauge had never said anything above 5psi since iv got it so the turbos could be spooling unlimited boost and just wasting it out the 3 vacuum lines that weren't connected and the recirc valve.

The mitis place said its running 7.25psi and my gauge sort of gets to 7psi but drops off back to 5psi, but i havent checked it since iv done the few fixes of boost leaks. But would my boost solenoid be broken because its a stock manual and stock boost is meant to be 9psi and its running 7 if there are no other leaks what would be the issue, still the solenoid?

unless the turbos are broken for the years of free boosting, but i did check the intake side and wiggled the fins and it didnt really have and play or wobbles and it doesnt blow any smoke at all

Edit: Doing another boost leak now to try find the big leak

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 01:17 AM
found that leak, apart from my bov which is leaking a little bit i cant actually do anything about that untill i find a good stock recirc valve in my area for really cheap.

the leak is here where the accelerator cable attaches, is this something to worry about or not? i guess its something ill need to buy a part to fix 67599

Going to take it out for a drive and do some 3rd gear pulls and see what my boost gauge reads

Davezj
19-04-2014, 01:17 AM
are you sure you have connected the boost solenoid correctly?

it sounds like the boost pressure might be going directly to the wastgate this would limit the boost to about 5 psi, it is worth checking how it is plumed in, it is best if you tell me what is conncted where.
start from the Plastic elbow that goes to the front of the throttle body and tell me where the two small pipes that connect into the side of this go.
just follow the pipes round, and describe it as you see it. tell me where the boost solenoid is connected, if there are any T pieces in the pipe work, thinks like that.
a torch will be very usefull to see where the pipes are going.

i will tell you one of the pipes should go to the valve on the power staeering pipe, this is where your blitz Bov is plumbed in i believe.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 01:30 AM
yup 1 goes to the power steering and the one before that closest to the throttle body goes to the boost solenoid, i connected it up like this http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=43634&d=1302429056 just going to take for a drive and check then will come back and get photos

Davezj
19-04-2014, 01:32 AM
found that leak, apart from my bov which is leaking a little bit i cant actually do anything about that untill i find a good stock recirc valve in my area for really cheap.

the leak is here where the accelerator cable attaches, is this something to worry about or not? i guess its something ill need to buy a part to fix 67599

Going to take it out for a drive and do some 3rd gear pulls and see what my boost gauge reads

so you have a car without traction control, is it a manual as well?

that is not an uncomon place for a leak to occur, this is the leak from the throttle body butterfly valve shaft that i mentioned above, if it is a small leak from here then it is nothing to worry about most vr4's leak from this area but only a very small leak. if it is a lager leak and loads of air is rushing out. probably the easiest way to fix a leak at this point is to replace the whole throttle body they can be bought very cheap and it saves messing about stripping all the throttle body down. i believe the seals for the butterfly valve shaft are quite a special type of seal, i have seen a thread on how to change them but because the entire throttle body is cheap to buy i don't think many people both changing just the seals.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 02:01 AM
yes manual without traction control, it seems to hold boost at 7psi once it did seem to spike to like 9ish then drop back down to 7psi. also sometimes it went to 7.5psi then dropped to about 6.5psi and held it there.

hmm seems now its holding more boost i have that problem with it stuttering/stumbling in most gears now, put it in 3rd to do a pull and it i guess was a back fire type thing and stalled out for a second before it starting to rev. im going to buy 3 rear spark plugs because they are the hardest to get to and probably never been done. to see if that helps the problem is that doesnt help ill see which spark plugs look the best of the out the 6 and put the 3 good ones in the front to check, i cant afford 6 plugs :/

I'll see if i can find a throttle body around here for cheap as well. there was a guy my flatmate brought some galant parts off and he had 3 legnums one which i think is a vr4 im going to ask him if it is and might buy the leads coils and them things just to replace on mine as well just because.

Would a couple semi minor boost leaks cause it not to hold 9psi? my 300zx has a few about this size and it holds 9.5psi fine.

I'm going to go out now and take some photos of how my waste gate lines hook upto the solenoid and i may pull my plenum off and take the rear spark plugs out and replace those. ill post theres photos up later tonight. I think im slowly going forward in fixing this i just really hope its the plugs causing the running bad issue.

Are these the correct plugs to buy ngk bkr6eix Also what number on the end do i need? 11? i just had a read of a thread saying 11 is to warm to higher boost, ideally id like to be able to run 12psi later on once everything is all fixed and running good without having to rebuy plugs again.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 03:14 AM
:( i have a problem . . . . first rear spark plug i pulled yup sweet looks the same as my fronts. . . get to the middle one um theres oil in there, the lead was covered in oil before i even got to the plug, the plug wasn't loose and in there tight, pull the plug out and its soaking of oil and just starts dripping it everywhere and the piston is covered in oil.

67600676016760267603


I have come to a conclusion that suggests its the tube seals leaking, but is there 1 or 2 seals in there? it looks as if there is 1 seal at the top but also looks to be 1 more rubber seal about 10mm from the bottom. which is most likely to be leaking the top seal or the bottom also how do i go about changing the bottom one if there is one, I'm assuming the top one i can fix by removing the valve cover?

Do you think this would be causing my problem when its on boost it doesnt run 100% should i fork out for 3 new rear plugs while im at it, im really tempted but again if the sole cause is this oil then saving $60 for plugs would be so much better.

Badger_01
19-04-2014, 03:35 AM
:( i have a problem . . . . first rear spark plug i pulled yup sweet looks the same as my fronts. . . get the the middle one um wtf theres like a litre of oil in there, the lead was covered in oil before i even got to the plug, the plug wasn't loose and in there tight, pull the plug out and its soaking of oil and just starts dripping it everywhere.

Whats gone wrong!!!!!! why is there this much oil all in there . . . . . I'll upload photos in a second just checking the 3rd plug

Dont panic lol the spark plug seal is buggered, thats all it is. I've had to replace all of mine because of that

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 05:19 AM
i always panic haha i just took my valve cover off and cleaned up the gaskets and added some gasket glue to it and put it back together, hopefully that has fixed the leak and hopefully that leak was causing all my problems, i doubt it though lol ill drive it for a week and then take it off again and check for oil leaks if its stopped leaking then ill get new plugs :P dont wana get new plugs just yet and have oil leak on to them haha

wintertidenz
19-04-2014, 06:38 AM
Just buy a new rocker cover gasket and seals. They aren't too expensive, and those seals are known to fail on these cars... it's because of the heat on that rear bank. It's nothing to panic about.

By the way, those plugs look to be Bosch ones - don't use them, I burnt through three sets in 20,000km. Even NGK copper plugs are miles better (but have to be changed more often).

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 07:14 AM
yeah there bosch ones, i dont have money to buy a gasket set so hopefully the rtv gasket sealant i used works, Will leave it with the sealant for a week or so and when i get money for the rear 3 plugs ill pull it off and check its not leaking then do the plugs at the same time. if its leaking ill get the gaskets as well if i have money. i wanted to wrap the underneath of the plenum in some dei gold heat sheet to stop it from getting hot but havent got money for that either. lol

TAR
19-04-2014, 09:20 AM
If you don't have any money, you bought the wrong car!!

The oil in the plug holes can cause a misfire, the only way to be sure its fixed is to change the plug seals under the rocker cover.

:happy:

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 09:40 AM
spent 8 grand on this vr4 so far because the people who sold it to me lied about everything photoshopped the receipts and now i have ran out of money and still havent fixed the thousands of problems it had . . . so far iv had to get a clutch cambelt and all that done, and including in that price at the mitsi dealership they were meant to fix everything wrong but apparently there is nothing wrong so not paying anyone else to do nothing so have to fix it myself with no money left. im over paying people to fix things when it doesnt happen and over buying cars that are nothing but piles of problems so iv decided to put all my money into fixing this then at least i know everything is done but i ran out of money well before it was fixed and didnt even know it was going to cost this much, i still have an almost blown diff and dented up panels and rough as guts car, but so far it owes me 8grand, 3700 for the car then rest on repairs new clutch all oils throughout new cambelt waterpump seals and they were meant to do my plugs and everything with the 120k service but they never did.

Davezj
19-04-2014, 11:02 AM
these are about 18 -20 year old cars, they have already passed there end of life date from the manufacturer.
if you buy an old car you must expect to have to replace everything mechanhical on it at some point.
engine, gear box, drive train, all pipeswork, exhaust, brakes, driveshafts, all rubber bushings, everything that moves basically.
then it is up to you to keep the bodywork in a rust free condition.

but back to the point in hand, as said above oil in pug holes to quite comon, and yes i believe it can cause missfire issue.
when using RTV sealant on plug seals, you should use it on the valve cover gasket as well. it is recommened by mitsi to use sealant on the gasket even when the gasket is new. but only in the corners where the gasket goes over the cam shafts. however on an old gasket i would put a small amount all the way round.

what you have to remember is you need to leave the sealant to set befor you start the engine you need to leave it for 20-30mins if you don't then you can knock off any squeeze out on the inside of the valve cover and this will set but it will find its way into the sump and end up blocking the oil pickup screen in the bottom of the engine.
but this not to bad as you can take the sump off and check for this, and it will only cost you some RTV sealant to do the job.
i am not saying this is an big issue, but at some point maybe the next oil change, take the sump off and check for this. i have seen a vr4 with lots of bits of sealant stuck to the oil screen and almost blocking it. again these cars are old and they have an 18 year biuld up of bits of sealant in the engine.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 11:57 AM
yeah i did put a small amount of sealant all the way around, havent started the car leaving it over night to fully cure then ill give the bolts another 1/4 turn to tighten them and it'l be sweet, that was my main concern is oil leaking around where the cam shafts but hopefully it will be ok, will check it often to make sure though. the receipts i was given pretty much said most things on this car was replaced within the last 2 years and always serviced but they turned out not to be true so im assuming this car has had nothing done to it since it left the factory unless iv done it myself. ill remove the sump in the next few thousand kms when i change the oil and clean that all out.

Will see how the car goes tomorrow

if i had of known nothing had been touched since it left the facotry there is no way i would of paid the price i did, would of rather brought benders vr4 he had but the reason i didnt was because this didnt involve $700 transport costs and it seemed to be low kms well serviced with all this work done. . . but yeah im never going to trust anyone again that wants my money. im hoping to sort this car out and it last for a few years with none to little problems then just replace things that break so i know whats been done and what hasnt

Davezj
19-04-2014, 12:21 PM
well i think you are going about it in the best way you can at present, given your cash situation, am i right in thinking you have a baby on the way, and this is supposed to be your reliable daily driver.

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 12:28 PM
yup suppose to be . . . i was really looking for a 2000+ 4 door honda but nothing came up and then this did for what i thought was a good price considering the work done with receipts but didnt turn out well. so far iv done the diff oil ayc fluid clutch cambelt engine oil gearbox and transfer box oil, the diff will blow anytime though because had no oil when i got it and when i got the ayc working it started grinding but i just pulled the ayc fuse so that wasnt in use hoping the diff will hold up or awhile before i need to replace that. and i just need the engine running smooth 100% the time and it should be reliable, it running low boost doesnt really bother me if everything else is working fine. im happy running it straight off wastegate pressure at 5psi if it comes to that, really hope all that oil was the cause of it running rough on boost, if not ill buy some plugs in 2 weeks when i next have money saved. had to pay power and phone bill this week.

I guess out of all of this i've learnt alot about turbos and more about these cars which will come in handy one day since i'll probably stick to having a legnum as my station wagon if its this one or i get another, i dont like jumping from car to car id prefer to just keep one forever haha i just cant seem to get a good one

i did get a cash offer of 3800 on my jaguar today so if i do get stuck and need cash fast i could sell it for that even though i really dont want to let it go for so cheap

Davezj
19-04-2014, 01:32 PM
so you have a jag and a 300ZX and a VR4, and you don't have enough money to fix up the VR4 as it is your daily runner. to be honest i think you would be better off with a 3 year old ford fiesta or a vauxhal corse as you daily run about. not a VR4. VR4's need money spending on the them all the time, in routine maintanance they are a very expensive car to keep on the road.
all the stuff you have listed above as problems and money spent are all routine maintanance, apart from the rear diff/ayc, but as said above these parts were never designed to last for 18-20 years, i am sure car manufactures will only diesign stuff to last for say twice as long as the waranty lasts and if you more years out of it than that well that is a bonus for you.

TAR
19-04-2014, 01:47 PM
Keep the faith, you wil get there in the end

:happy:

nos monkeys
19-04-2014, 02:10 PM
yeah, I moved towns and looking for work so haven't got weekly income and the jaguar iv had for a few years as my daily driver but it has no seat belts so not suitable for a baby and its quite tidy so i just park it in the shed so it doesn't get ruined there getting rare now days over here. once i get all the maintenance done and it running good it shouldnt cost to much to maintain its just all the unexpected costs which is annoying for the price and it was all meant to have been done which is the only reason i brought it

Davezj
19-04-2014, 05:22 PM
sound like you had a lot of bad luck.

nos monkeys
20-04-2014, 12:58 AM
yeah pretty much, my first car was a 300zx and i had that for 6 years+ brought at 200,000kms done well over 300,000kms on the stock engine without 1 problem and ever since i sold that iv never had a decent car since so wanted to buy another 300zx but they aint very practical for a family so thats why i was looking for a station wagon and wanted something practical but not gutless and something i could tow with if need be. and i always thought these legnums would be pretty good if everything was as it was stock, but since i kept having problems with this and the amount of money i had spent at the mitsi dealer and it still not been fixed i gave up putting lots of money into it paying people when it still doesnt make a difference and thats when i brought my other 300zx which i can use for a work car when i find a job since its reliable and doesnt need anything done. when i find a job ill have weekly income and be able to afford to buy parts to fix the legnum myself without having to have it driving at the end of the day i can just have it in bits till iv replaced most things. i really want to replace the coils leads plugs throttle body ( because that leak ) want to replace all the vacuum lines get rid of the stupid bov and get a good stock recirc and pretty much make it back to how it left the factory then ill know it would be good to go.

by the time im finished with it though i would pretty much know most things about it and be able to fix it quick and easy in the future if there are any problems, when i took the valve covers off everything in the engine still looked pretty good not all gummed oil and the compression on all the cylinders are good and even all around. but ill take the sump off and clean that out to make sure its not starving of oil from gunk build up on the pick up like you said then pretty much the next thing id need to replace in the future would probably be turbo repairs then it should be sweet for a long time if i keep up the maintenance.

I do like this car but i wish it was how it was meant to be, id love a mint condition one with ayc working and nothing wrong with it. id say it'l be a pretty awesome car.

Davezj
20-04-2014, 01:26 PM
i can see you are commited to getting this car back up and running to tiptop condition.
and it sould like you have the skills to do it, but not the knowledge of the turbo car yet but that will soon change as it will become second naturer to you soon enough.
have you looked at the pluming schematics in the jap workshop manual, they are quite good at giving a visual explanation of what is going on in the turbo vac/boost system.

i will see if i can find it for you.

loak at 13A part1.pdf page 4 (13A-4) it shows the schematic of the turbo system.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?65174-Jap-workshop-Manual-PDF-s&highlight=jap+workshop+manual

copy and past the jap words into babelfish and do a translation if you can't work out what all the bits are. but when you look at logically it make perfect sense. the air inlet is the arrow bottom left of the diagram with the air box and panel filter show from the side.

however as yours is a manual without TCL you will not have the extra solenoid valves and canistar attached to the throttle body at the top of the diagram (4 items in the middle).

the valve below the throttle body is the fuel presssre solenoid and fuel pressure regualtor.
bottom left valve is the boost control valve.
at the bottom is the catalytic converter and the O2 sesnor.


the rest should be obvious.

Hope this help.

nos monkeys
20-04-2014, 02:04 PM
Thanks ill have a read through that, i have downloaded all those files from that workshop just havent ladbel which part is for different things so takes awhile to track down what im actually looking for, will take the car out for a drive tomorrow after cleaning the mess of an oil and hoping there is some change if not ill order some plugs next week if i can afford it and change them over and see what luck i have, i think its almost there just needs a few more special touches.

this was my first turbo car apart from my 300 which i brought after but i know my way around the non turbo engine in my 300 so the turbo knowledge im getting from this will come in handy if i have problems in my 300 otherwise most engines i have worked on have been old school carbys haha

wintertidenz
21-04-2014, 12:08 AM
If you don't mind changing the plugs earlier than what you normally would, just get a set of NGK coppers for $30 or so. I've done this on my Legnum as I didn't quite have the cash available at the time (and the car was going to be coming off the road in the next 10,000km anyway for an engine swap/cambelt, so no point in buying expensive plugs for them to be scrapped later).
I swapped to the NGK coppers from those crappy Bosch plugs and immediately noticed a difference in engine performance - even if they do have to be done every second or third oil change, for me it was worth that sacrifice.

If you get stuck with the manual throttle body leaking like crazy I do have a spare one sitting in my garage that I'll let go for a reasonable price. Just let me know.

nos monkeys
21-04-2014, 01:09 AM
Thanks, will let you know if i need one, ill check how bad this one is leaking another time. Do you know the number of those spark plugs ? i might just get some of them

wintertidenz
21-04-2014, 01:43 AM
BKR6E. Make sure that they are missing the -11 at the end, otherwise get a feeler gauge and regap them to 0.8mm.

nos monkeys
21-04-2014, 04:43 AM
so i dont want the ones that have -11 at the end? and cheers ill get some of them. that way its cheaper and i get to replace all 6 and hopefully things get better.

Took it for a drive today and still runs the same but on the bright side its getting worse because it hesitates in every gear now just just first, as soon as boost comes on it sort of coughs then half goes. ill get some plugs check its not leaking oil in that spark plug then if no luck ill replace the coils and leads and if no luck i have no idea

wintertidenz
21-04-2014, 04:57 AM
If you cannot get the 0.8mm factory gapped ones, then the -11's will do as long as you regap them. I'd also check the gap on those Bosch ones - IIRC they aren't gapped to 0.8mm from factory, which doesn't help your boost issues.

nos monkeys
21-04-2014, 05:57 AM
thanks, ill go buy a feeler gauge and check and get some of them plugs and see how it goes

nos monkeys
30-04-2014, 05:38 AM
Well i replaced the plugs got a stock recirc valve got rid of all the stupid stuff that was plumb wrong and today i went out for a hunt with my dogs and it drove fine and didnt have problems. although it sometimes boost spikes to 9psi but then falls back down to about 6-7psi . . . so its still not hitting full boost but i dont care it runs smooth doesnt do anything stupid like before and has no boost leaks apart from the throttle body which isnt to bad of a leak, with the throttle wide open the leak is very minor.

maybe my boost solenoid is broken? but if it is broken how come it sits at like 7psi instead of wastegate 5psi. i duno and i'll sort it out sometime in the future got no money to spend on parts just to make it go faster it runs smooth and should now be reliable, when the plugs need replacing ill buy proper ones again but had no money for them so just got those cheap ones.

Thanks ben for the recirc valve, thanks reece for the spark plugs, thanks winter for the plug number and thanks dave for answering my lots of silly questions haha and thanks to anyone else who helped :)

wintertidenz
30-04-2014, 09:38 AM
Plugs will help boost, and even I get the weird boost spikes with a FL ECU (meant to be 9 psi, I normally get 7-8). It could also be boost control hosing is leaking slightly, or a wastegate is getting old and not holding boost like it should.

At least it's running properly now.

Davezj
30-04-2014, 10:32 AM
Well i replaced the plugs got a stock recirc valve got rid of all the stupid stuff that was plumb wrong and today i went out for a hunt with my dogs and it drove fine and didn't have problems. although it sometimes boost spikes to 9psi but then falls back down to about 6-7psi . . . so its still not hitting full boost but i don't care it runs smooth doesn't do anything stupid like before and has no boost leaks apart from the throttle body which isn't to bad of a leak, with the throttle wide open the leak is very minor.

maybe my boost solenoid is broken? but if it is broken how come it sits at like 7psi instead of wastegate 5psi. i duno and i'll sort it out sometime in the future got no money to spend on parts just to make it go faster it runs smooth and should now be reliable, when the plugs need replacing ill buy proper ones again but had no money for them so just got those cheap ones.

Thanks ben for the recirc valve, thanks reece for the spark plugs, thanks winter for the plug number and thanks dave for answering my lots of silly questions haha and thanks to anyone else who helped :)

so you got rid of the broken recirc valve, replaced it with a working one and removed the blitz bov, and it all seems to work. glad you got round to doing it.
if you are using factory boost control now then and you have a pfl auto then 0.5 to 0.6 bar (7 -9psi) is standard boost level so it sound like it is working fine.

pfl manual and fl manual and fl atuo have the slightly raised boost level of 0.7-0.8 bar (10 to 12psi). your boost control is obviously working as without it you get you get wastegate pressure which is 0.4 bar and with it disconnected you get very high boost. so it is working.

if you want more boost fit a manual boost controller and turn it up a bit you will be safe up to 0.8- 0.9 bar. they are only cheap and simple to setup.

nos monkeys
01-05-2014, 01:49 AM
the car is a stock manual so should be in the higher boost range.

i just went for a quick drive and still running fine without a problem, didnt do many first gear pulls though but didnt miss or be weird. i also disconnected the wastegate lines so it was free boosting just to see if my boost gauge now is right and reads what it should and it did! it went over 10psi with ease i didnt rev it right out i just made sure the boost gauge was working. since when i brought it and it was free boosting yet the gauge was only saying 5psi because all the stupid pipe work plumbing and everything but it looks like everything on this car is fixed. so i could put the boost controller in and wind the boost up and it will work. not that im going to but its good to know the gauge is now working and everything seems to be fixed :)

Now it best stay reliable... although my partner wants to use it next weekend to go for a 5hour trip for her baby shower but im not sure i wana let her drive it just yet . . . she will probably break it or something i duno but the last car she had she blew 3 engines in a year no idea how she managed it but just let them cook till it seized then rung asking why her car is smoking from the bonnet. . . it was steam lol

the only problem that remains is my abs codes but idc about them it breaks hard just fine. my ayc diff is broken but open diff works fine for now. and going from 5th to 4th is really hard because 4th is angled and bent, doesnt grind or anything just hard to find going from 5th to 4th although iv figured out how to change but my partner will probably somehow wont work how it works and break it more haha

Davezj
05-05-2014, 08:39 PM
glad to hear it is working now.
the boost controller shold be ok to fit now. and you should be able to set it to about 10-12psi without issue. but go any higher than that and you will hit fuel cut.
it would be a good idea to run the car without wastegate pipe connected and drive car in 3rd gear not 1st or second and rev it hard to see what the fuel cut feels like, it will scare the crap out of you the first time you hit fuel cut, but you need to know what feels like so when it happens and you are not expecting it to happen you do not panic. it feels like something just went bang in the engine.
but it is not as bad as the spped cut at 112mph or reading on the dial is 120mph that really does feel like the cambelt just snapped.

it is a bit like people driving the car without knowing what the ABS feels like. and when they need the abs they panic due to the brake pedel judering and lift off the brake and have an accident as they think the bakes are faulty. you need to be able to use the driving aids on the car and learning to steer the car whilst having the brakes fully on is not an instinctive thing to do, you tend to hold the steering wheel staight and not turn it.

Badger_01
05-05-2014, 11:54 PM
it would be a good idea to run the car without wastegate pipe connected and drive car in 3rd gear not 1st or second and rev it hard to see what the fuel cut feels like, it will scare the crap out of you the first time you hit fuel cut, but you need to know what feels like so when it happens and you are not expecting it to happen you do not panic.


This. Pretty scary hitting it the first time haha

nos monkeys
06-05-2014, 06:09 AM
might try that, i think i know what fuel cut is im sure it done it all the time when i first brought it but ill check that out just to make sure i know what it is, i do have evoscan now so i could wind the boost upto 10-12psi and run it and see if its knocking more or not. it doesnt knock at all now i think its been about 1-2 once but no constants knocks.

if im driving it and using the power to haul around corners it handles really nice, it just feels dodgy when cruising it doesnt tend to hold a straight line, i think the rear springs have been cut since its low but stock springs and they might be uneven but just feels a tad weird cruising feels floaty. but its all good when i use the power it holds the road and handles good.

its still running good now without problems. my 300 on the other hand isnt running at full power and not sure why i think its because is not hitting 9psi boost till like 5k rpm and it should hit boost at like 3k. it has minor boost leaks but about as much as my vr4 leaking at the throttle body. it might be because its a stock exhaust and maybe collapsed cats in it making the spool slow but ill sort that out one day, the legnum is much more fun to drive now (: