Bigger Turbos With Modified Stock Manifolds

[giblet]

Like a lot of VR4 owners I have started doing research on what path to take with upgrades. Car is currently stock aside from colder plugs, kv85 leads and a bigger FMIC which might need replacing after an incident with a raised car park kerb :sad3: My rolling road run showed that it was down on power slightly, I think I've found the cause as the seal for the throttle body pipe is buggered and needs replacing.

I've been pondering over the pros and cons of having bigger turbos on modified factory manifolds for a while after seeing SAF's sale thread for his previous setup. I'm guessing one of the biggest pros is that its cheaper to modify the existing manifolds compared to having a full set of manifolds made from scratch. What are the cons for such a setup?

[Adam.Findlay]

Cons are
-limited to factory turbo position, can only fit in small upgrades
-terrible flow
-ugly

Or you could get 2x factory rear manifolds (as the outlet of the rear manifold is facing upwards not down like the front) and then single turbo it by mounting the turbo above the gearbox
this allows you to port the stock manifold outlets to gain some flow. means you can fit a much larger turbo in for much better power but its still nowhere near as good as an aftermarket tubular manifold

Racefab here In NZ sell manifolds to suit TD04's for 1400 NZD http://racefab.co.nz/

[giblet]

Thanks for the reply and link. My main aim with any upgrades is to retain the driveability of the car with the tiptronic gearbox. I understand that any modifications will only result in components having a shorter lifespan but I'm trying to retain the stock gearbox (with an aftermarket cooler) and still have a reliable car.

Those manifolds work our at just over £700 before shipping and customs costs. Hmmm

[wintertidenz]

The main problem with the stock manifolds, as Adam said, is they are ugly and there really isn't much space to fit in larger turbos.

I found that when attempting to fit a TD04 in the factory position on the front that it fouled on the oil filter neck and there was no way to fit a wastegate.

I'm going full custom manifolds - with lobster bends you should be able to get the manifolds tucked in nice and close to the engine, and that will give a bit more space (and flow if they are done right).

[Gly]

and still have a reliable car.


sorry but HAHAHAAH you can break alot of things with the stock turbos, and the autos IMO are barely strong enough for a bit of increased boost.

[giblet]

Are the boxes really that weak? I know of a few owners who have increased boost without any issues. Don't know of any with TD04's. Hmmm

[adaxo]

Im afraid there is no answer for your question, gbox/TB/diff can go in any car, modified or not, and no one will say that you can put xxx hp and run it for 78987 miles, joys of modifying cars.

I would suggest that if you considering tdo4s conv then get spare gbox/transfer/diff (may even a engine) dirt cheap now and store them just in case something go bang.

btw any of you NZ members have any feedback from mentioned above company?

[CANDEE]

Racefab? Carl(a member on here) has them on his car and it makes 310+kw with td04's... ;)

[Davezj]

always interested in td04 conversion info.

however i still think i an going do the modified stock manifolds route, purely due to cost.
a second hand set of manifolds and some time, lots of time.

[Davezj]

Racefab? Carl(a member on here) has them on his car and it makes 310+kw with td04's... ;)

what type of TD04's?
TD04L-13T by any chance for a subaru.

[CANDEE]

what type of TD04's?
TD04L-13T by any chance for a subaru.

This is the thread for the car:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?71935-Carl-s-Dyno-Results

[Davezj]

cheers jeremy i thought it would be that thread.

[giblet]

Im afraid there is no answer for your question, gbox/TB/diff can go in any car, modified or not, and no one will say that you can put xxx hp and run it for 78987 miles, joys of modifying cars.

I would suggest that if you considering tdo4s conv then get spare gbox/transfer/diff (may even a engine) dirt cheap now and store them just in case something go bang.

btw any of you NZ members have any feedback from mentioned above company?

True, was just wanting to see if there was any experience out there from members running td04's with the autobox. I'm not aiming for silly levels of power. I'm down by 34bhp according to the figures from the rr day. If I could get 350-370bhp at the crank and still have a relatively reliable car then I will be happy. Majority of my driving is round town where I rarely get to open the car up due to speed limits and speed cameras.


always interested in td04 conversion info.

however i still think i an going do the modified stock manifolds route, purely due to cost.
a second hand set of manifolds and some time, lots of time.

Will be interested to see how it goes as you have previously said you want to keep the auto box. I have time but no skills!

[Adam.Findlay]

There is an australian guy on OZVR4 (username JET150) with twin garrett GT2559R's 287kW at all 4 wheels through a stock auto. they are strong boxes. just cant handle when people do silly s**t like neutral dropping them.

http://www.ozvr4.com/threads/robs-6a13tt-twin-garrett-upgrade.9234/

Have a read there

I will try and grab some snaps of the RACEFAB manifolds when we take carls car apart later this month to install his forged engine.

[giblet]

Thanks for the link Adam, looks like an interesting build but also deep pockets!

I was planning on bidding on this Legnum that is running TD04-13's on modified stock manifolds - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191264904472 but in the end the price was too high for something that didn't have any dyno print outs etc or further info on actual power output. I'm hoping that a fellow forum member has purchased it and we will hopefully be able to find out more information on the setup. The seller seems to be a forum member but hasn't posted any pictures of the setup.

[billybobboot]

I was thinking of going the td04 from sti with x2 rear manifolds then getting custom flexi oil pipes ect and making new downpipes.
Im not bothered yet but thats the way im looking at going.
Sti turbo is slightly better and more powerful than just ordanery scooby turbo.

[adaxo]

Racefab? Carl(a member on here) has them on his car and it makes 310+kw with td04's... ;)

Thanks





I will try and grab some snaps of the RACEFAB manifolds when we take carls car apart later this month to install his forged engine.

That will be great.

[hardhitter78]

I was thinking of going the td04 from sti with x2 rear manifolds then getting custom flexi oil pipes ect and making new downpipes.
Im not bothered yet but thats the way im looking at going.
Sti turbo is slightly better and more powerful than just ordanery scooby turbo.

the reason people go the normal 2ltr wrx turbos is so they dont spool up too late the sti ones will spool up even later

[Adam.Findlay]

That will be great.

Sorry for the delay but check the photobucket album. Detailed pics of the racefab manifolds, both on and off the engine. and with turbos and downpipes fitted also.

http://s693.photobucket.com/user/Adam-Findlay/media/DSC02536.jpg.html?o=49

Just scroll through the gallery to the right and you will see all the pics I took

[adaxo]

Sorry for the delay but check the photobucket album. Detailed pics of the racefab manifolds, both on and off the engine. and with turbos and downpipes fitted also.

http://s693.photobucket.com/user/Adam-Findlay/media/DSC02536.jpg.html?o=49

Just scroll through the gallery to the right and you will see all the pics I took

Very interesting gallery there, thanks.

Have to ask you as the one of few who work with them, touch them :-), fit them, in your opinion, how good they are? r they worth investing money?

[Adam.Findlay]

Yes excellent quality.

I have PM'd you.

[Davezj]

great pics there adam very nice of you to share.

do the standard down pipe bolt up to the dump pipes from the turbo?
I am asking so I can get some mental measurement off your pictures of the racefab manifolds. then I can get a better gauge of where things need to be and what angles the flanges need to be welded on at, to put the turbo in the rough start position.
Is the engine and turbo put together now for good or will they be coming apart again?
if the turbos are coming off, would it possible to get some measurements, like the angle of the turbo flange with respect to the face of the exhaust manifold flange, to give me a rough start point.
I can see both front and rear turbo flanges are not at 90 deg in either plane to the exhaust flange face, it would be really helpful if I could get those measurements off you.

[Adam.Findlay]

No the stock down pipes do not fit. they are custom racefab items too. and for good reason, the stock downpipes are complete and utter rubbish.

this forged engine has been in the car and running for months now and will not be coming apart for the forseeable future. so no I cannot measure angles for you sorry.

[Davezj]

Ok fair enough just tho it I would ask.
The reason I ask about stock down pipes is all better after market down pipes are designed to fit in the stock down pipe location for obvious reasons, direct replacement.
I will just have to suck it and see with mock ups, tack welding, grinding, tacking, grinding, to make it a perfect fit. Then I can make a jig to make it reproducible.

[adaxo]

I will just have to suck it and see with mock ups, tack welding, grinding, tacking, grinding, to make it a perfect fit. Then I can make a jig to make it reproducible.

Waiting eagerly for that to eventually happen, remember 270WHP@1BAR on last dyno?

[Davezj]

Yes eventually.

[Adam.Findlay]

Ok fair enough just tho it I would ask.
The reason I ask about stock down pipes is all better after market down pipes are designed to fit in the stock down pipe location for obvious reasons, direct replacement.
I will just have to suck it and see with mock ups, tack welding, grinding, tacking, grinding, to make it a perfect fit. Then I can make a jig to make it reproducible.

As I PM'd Adaxo, I have the jig already made. watch this space

[Davezj]

Nice

[Davezj]

I have just had a light bulb moment!!!!!

I know how I can get the down pipe and manifold location fixed in free space. Then I can create a no go area for the Goose neck, engine block , a/c pimp and fans.

Then I have an area where the turbo can fit in. And it does not really matter where it's as long as it fits.

Then I can make a jig off the first one I make.