Manual vs Auto/tiptronic - Buying help

[JONNY]

Hi,

Ive looked through the previous threads about auto/tiptronic vs manual gear boxes. But still struggling to believe that the Mitsubishi tiptronic gearbox can be as good as it sounds?

I am looking to buy a Legnum VR4 and have always been put off by the fact that the majority of them are a tiptronic gearboxes. Ive only ever owned manual cars most of which have been BMWs. That said i drive an array of cars at work which include plenty of BMW E46 M3's with the SMG 2 gearbox and still wasnt entirely won over by that.

Basicly, what i am trying to find out is what are the pros and cons of the VR4 Tiptronic box and the manual box? Is it worth biding my time for the right manual one to come up for sale? (which tend to be more expensive and higher mileage). If you own a tiptronic VR4, what are your thoughts about it in comparison to a manual car? Do you ever find it restricting or not doing exactly what you ask of it?

[Nick Mann]

I have put many miles on both types. For pure driver control and enjoyment then manual is the way forward. For round town driving and mind blowing off the line performance then auto is best.
The tiptronic box will always do what you want but it happens 2 seconds after you tell it to. As long as you are able to plan more than 2 seconds ahead then that isn't a problem! Tiptronic doesn't prevent you changing gear unless what you want is ridiculous. It will never change up gear by itself and will only change down if you are going too slowly for the current gear.

[Ghost_2008]

I like you was never a fan of autos, however I drive a vr4 tiptronic and liked it enough to buy. I have enjoyed it, in traffic it's great, no clutch, in tiptronic once you get used to it, it's very good... This particular auto box was designed by porshe... If maintained properly they are strong and reliable...

I have had my vr4 for about 8 years, I did kill my box but that was due to an accident..... I managed to get a second had box and fitted for about £800.....

Is it good enough to persuade you, only you can answer that.... I would however say the wait for a manual might....

Good luck with the search.....

[JONNY]

Thank you for your help so far, I really think I need to get a go in a tiptronic one at some point... I have drove a manual one briefly at work and that was what initially sparked my love of the VR4s. A lot of my driving is round towns and motorways so maybe an auto would be more suited anyway.

Do you ever have any problems when you are, let's say, "rapidly decelerating" and want to change down to a gear or two that would be more appropriate for an approaching corner?

Having done a bit of research, the drivetrain and gearbox tend to be one of the main weaknesses of the VR4, what is good to look out for on this aspect when buying?

[Pugme]

I used to downshift and engine brake with my auto, because I have a full straight thru exhaust it was a cool way to make it pop and bang :-)

Never seemed to do it any harm.

[Ghost_2008]

You can control the gears in tip unless it's a crazy fool idea, like trying to select 2nd at 60mph... So you can engine brake and change into the gearbox you need.....

When driving in auto, it learns how you drive and adjusts accordingly, so it complements your driving style...

When buying make sure it's smooth when changing gear, check dipstick and make sure the fluid is red not brown....

[TAR]

welcome to the club.

Where are you located? You may find a local member who will demo their car for you.

:happy:

[JONNY]

Thanks for the welcome. I'm based in the Northeast, Newcastle upon Tyne. Every car I look at is typically 4-5 hours away, I'm happy to travel but don't think there are many round this area. But if anyone knows of anyone that would be helpful? The auto box is starting to tempt me more...

[chris g]

From speaking to others who have driven BMW with SMG box, I am convinced that VR-4 box is far better and I am not aware that gearbox/frivetrain is a weak spot - not clear what investigations or research revealed this...

[Nick Mann]

By far my biggest bills for mechanical failure on the VR4 have been gearbox related. Having said that, I am running greatly increased torque and I have done a few track days and 1/4 miles. Maybe the fairer thing to say would be that the drive train is the least strong bit?

[Z-Kev]

I am running 1 bar on my Vr4 and I am worried about the box, all I can really do is service it well with good fluids( amsoil) and it seems to be coping well ( I do tend to drive vigorously ) having said that upshifts seem to be about half a second in tip ( slower when in auto ) and downshifts a little longer, going to flush it with amsoil trans flush see if theres any burnt fluid on the clutch plates as when I first changed the gearbox oil it was a smelly dark brown not the red it should of been

[Ghost_2008]

People have run autos with 300bhp plus nos.... But you do need to look after them. Amsoil should clean the clutch packs, when you replace the atf, make sure you reset the ecu (disconnect the battery). That way it re-learns the shift patterns....

[chugg]

All the advice above is great advice, and yep you could do with getting a drive in a tip ond to see if you like it or not. I've had a couple of autos in the past (not vr4s) and like you wasn't really after another self shifter, but a tip one came up near me so went for a test drive and loved it, never looked back. Had it coming up 6 years now and still a smile from ear to ear every time you prod the loud pedal! And effortless cruiser too. Yeah the manual tip selection aint instant, but it's certainly not bad, I can't think of another 15+ year old car for a couple of grand that can do it better. Can't speak from personal on a manual vr4 cos I've never driven one, but honestly don't think I'd want a manual vr4 anyway, in the same way I couldn't imagine my mk2 escort as an auto! But tbh, the vr4 is never gonna be a 'serious' racer which would need the true feel of manual (evo for that!) would be nice to have if you found a good one at right price pethaps, but wouldn't get too hung up on it it's not really that kind of car if you see what I mean. As for drivetrain, touch wood, never been a problem for me bar the usual things, had to do the t/c seal, ayc pump is failing (got the uprated switch but not got round to fitting it yet). Always amsoil'd etc it should be fine. Just done the usual easy mods on mine, 1bar boost, hks panel filter, stainless Powerflow zorst, decat, iridium plugs. There are probably more mechanically sound cars but with rotten bodies around than the other way on!
Either way, good luck with the search :thumbsup:

[Confused]

The tiptronic box does go quite well with the character of the car - a comfortable cruiser with plenty of poke.

You will learn how the gearbox reacts once you have driven the car a bit - it's not something you can learn on a short test drive... so don't rule out a tiptronic on the basis of not knowing it after a 10 minute drive.

I have always said that the time the tiptronic box takes to shift is about the amount of time it would take you to depress the clutch, move the gear lever, and raise the clutch again. You just need to get into the mindset of pushing the gear lever when you would otherwise think about putting your foot onto the clutch.


You will find that there are more "reported issues" with an auto, not because they are worse, but because, as you've found, the vast majority of them are auto, not manual.

[miller]

I never had as much fun or 'confidence' In a traffic light race than I did in my auto legnum

Left foot hard on brake

4500rpm

and whoooooooosh




bye bye

[Davezj]

Launch the auto box in the above is an amazing way to get off the line really quick, but I did manage to brake one auto box doing it. But I had a spare that had been on the shelf for 3 years doing nothing, so I fitted it and have been working well ever since and that was about 3 years ago. So no complaints from me.

[giblet]

Has anyone every experienced an issue with the box bogging down when you nail it in full auto from a standstill?

Mine seems to do it regularly, car has covered less than 60k from new and was flushed with fresh Amsoil and refilled just under a year ago now.

[Nick Mann]

Are you sure it isn't the engine bogging? I'm not sure how that description fits with the gearbox.

[Ghost_2008]

Do as miller says above, turn traction control off....

[Davezj]

if you don't put your foot on the brake to effectively pre load the torque converter while holding the accelerator pedal down a little to build some revs you only really need to hold 1500-2000rpm it will bog down.
in the scenario where you take for right foot off the brake and then plant it on the accelerator it will bog down until the torque converter loads up.
you can even load the torque converter with the handbrake if it is good enough, hold thhand bakeke obring thehe revs up to 1500 or so then plant foot on accelerator and release the handbrake at the same time .

if you hold the brake pedal with the left foot and build 4500rpm then the car launches like a scolded cat. but it does put a lot of stress on te drive train and you could end up breaking something.

[Confused]

However, the advantage of doing it on the brakes is that you do pre-load all of the drivetrain components - unlike when you drop the clutch in a manual, where you put a large shock loading into everything.

I've done a few days at a sprint event (standing start, up a runway, brake, round a cone and back) - where you essentially have as many opportunities to go round as you want (as they limit it to 50 cars) - I've spent almost all day from 10am to 4pm just going round and round, with other vehicles breaking left, right and centre, and the Legnum has been the most reliable car to ever visit those events. I've had people come to me and say how impressed they are that it turns up every time, goes all day, and has a lot of abuse (I often load it up with 5-7 people, well, just because)


If I were to launch it like that every day... maybe I'd break something, but it's had hundreds of launches with my foot on the brake over the 6 years I've owned it, and *touches a large bit of wood* I've not had anything break yet.