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View Full Version : converting our turbos to td03.5



paulbonner84
07-12-2015, 08:34 PM
guys i know this is probaly been discussed in depth before ,but here gose .i have been chatting to a turbo company today about refurbing my turbos and ended chatting about how lame our turbos are ,and he seems to think he can hybrid them to be td03 on the hot side and td04 on the cold side ,just woundering if anyone else hase tryed it and if so how well did thay work ?

Davezj
07-12-2015, 08:41 PM
as i remember it
i believe it has been tried and the issue was the compressor wheel undoing itself from the shaft and trashing the compressor wheel in the process.

but there will be other that have actually tried it.

foxdie
07-12-2015, 09:05 PM
Interested in this :)

paulbonner84
07-12-2015, 09:24 PM
from what the bloke was saying is 2 ways to do it.one is get a doner td04 cold side and use that instead of our standard one ,so the only pipwork needed to be changed would be the y pipe ends, or can put billet wheel in our modded houseing.will find out more when i go in next .will keep you all up to date

Davezj
07-12-2015, 11:11 PM
i think the reason why the nut kept on coming undone was the exhaust wheel is trying to spin at the same speed it was when it had the tiny compressor wheel (about 230,000 rpm) the TD04 compressor wheel does not want to spin that fast. so the TD04 compressor wheel wants to undo the nut all the time.
also the TD04 housing i have will not fit up to the TD03 exhaust housing.

i am sure a turbo shop will be able to get something ot fit, and possibly replace the exhaust shaft a wheel for something with a revers thread possibly.
as i say i am not 100% sure on this it was about 3 years ago when all this was discussed.

there are threads on here about it.

i think 'Hybrid turbo' is the search string you need.

paulbonner84
07-12-2015, 11:31 PM
i did know what you ment dave ,seen it happen on a mates auldi ,only the nut ended up inbeded in a valve .once i have been down there and spoke to him i will let you all know what he says is possible with our turbos ,and if we can solve the problem of having to change everything then its a great will for all vr4 owners that want more power without the hassle of having to have manifolds downpipes ect made up then all the better

Davezj
07-12-2015, 11:41 PM
be interesting to see what you come up with, just remeber you have to have you car dynoed just before you make the change and only change the turbo then dynoed afterwards to have a realistic gauge on power increase.
dont chage anything else otherwise you can't give a power figure increase for the upgrade if you had any type of idea of marketing a kit.

hbkuk1
08-12-2015, 07:39 AM
I would be interested also

MarkSanne
08-12-2015, 08:48 AM
If it wasn't for that stupid oil filter neck, any turbo upgrade would've been so much easier... It's that front side that really is the tricky part of a conversion. Despite I'll be going for the 2x TD04 conversion myself, this is an interesting topic!

billybobboot
08-12-2015, 09:04 AM
Oil filter neck isnt an issue at all as long as you can get the replacement turbo to sit high enough up. Ive got gto turbo housings on and it cleared it just and they have long turbo necks if you can use a short turbo neck it clears with ease. I had 3 issues putting my turbos on 1 was 1 turbo bolt and 2 was the clearing my big ass rad. My td04s sit almost in the same position as the td03s did to the point i have used nearly every stock coolant and oil pipe. 3 was the front engine mount after its all on with a slight mod to the bracket i could put it back on but i just went for a polybush rear engine mount to give the suport as the front on mine did nothing as the bush was broken..
Td04 scooby turbos are easyer to fit but gto tdo4 spool up faster as they have a smaller exhast wheel. I havent had it mapped but cant go over 3k as the turbos are kicking in.
I would advise not doing a td035 upgrade just go td04 but i would recomend scooby turbos just for ease of fitting at the manifold end. But if after close to stock spool go for gto, mine was also made harder by i could only get 1 gto housing so had to use 2 of the same also my adapter plate wasnt quite right match as there are 2 diffrent manifold -turbo flange patterns.

Davezj
08-12-2015, 09:16 AM
As far as I know the filter neck is not a problem if you are modifying the original manifold with a new flange, it only becomes an issue if you try and piggy back the td04 flange on to the manifold.
In this case you always have the option to fit a filter relocation kit and remove the filter neck.

Personally I would not go for a hybrid conversion as it will not be as efficient as a full td04 conversion and the gains will not be as large . It will always be a compromise.

But that is just my personal opinion.

billybobboot
08-12-2015, 09:38 AM
Stock cams are the killer weather running stock turbos or not these should be your first mod.

billybobboot
08-12-2015, 09:44 AM
You cant get a relocation kit in between the block and turbo there just isnt room a plate will fit in but the pipes no the real answer is to cut off the stock ones in half and have a thread put in and the pipe them to a relocation kit. This is what im going to do next but to get it running i havnt done it but i have started to build it i have already cut the neck and threaded them i just need to order the 2 inserts

billybobboot
08-12-2015, 09:53 AM
This will mean a stock turbo man can be used with just a flange welded on the everything become easyer.
My oil filter kit i will take pics.
I plan to the redo my front manifold using stock man with flange and bolt the turbo to it to see where it sits the issue you will get is too low and the stock (stock design) down pipe may have to be cut then your into problem of warrantys if you ever need to claim. Ive modded everything elts so the bought parts arnt modded so i can claim if something goes wrong like the rad ect ive made the car fit the rad not the rad fit the car. Same with the turbos make the car fit them not them fit the car.

Adam.Findlay
08-12-2015, 11:03 AM
problem is the stock manifolds are rubbish. your shooting youself in the foot fitting good turbos to stock manifolds

for hybrid TD03's see this thread
http://www.ozvr4.com/threads/jungles-car-family.1670/page-43

billybobboot
08-12-2015, 10:50 PM
Yes they are but without spending lots on custom manifolds its not always an option.

paulbonner84
10-12-2015, 06:05 PM
Right guys , I have took the turbos to the bloke to see them and we have come up with as follows
Changing the compressor wheel to a transit 2.2 .witch is 4mm taller and on the nut end it's 4mm wider witch in turbo tums it's the equivalent of going from a td0414 to a td0419 if that makes sense lol.thay looked at all the parts and housings and there is enough metal on the compressor houseing to mechan out .so will find out in January weather it was worth paying the extra £50 per turbo rebuild .was getting them rebult anyway .

adaxo
10-12-2015, 07:04 PM
What sort of cost will be involved for this conversion?

paulbonner84
10-12-2015, 07:50 PM
its costing £270 per turbo
the breakdown of the cost
£200 to refurb turbo
£50 for the bigger compressor wheel
£20 to have housing milled out (may vary depending on where its done tho )
once ive got them back and fitted i will get the car dynoed again at area52 ,when it was done early this year there it made 212atw and nothink else has been done engine wise.will be good to see how much of a diffrence it makes
I know it wont make as much as if i done a td04 converson ,but this will be for those of us that want a bit more power but dont want the hassle of the converting

adaxo
10-12-2015, 08:04 PM
That's looks promising, £540 for both tubs is not bad me think, esp in comparison with tdo4 conversion cost. Looking forward for results, if it give 20hp more is worth the money.

paulbonner84
10-12-2015, 08:22 PM
That's looks promising, £540 for both tubs is not bad me think, esp in comparison with tdo4 conversion cost. Looking forward for results, if it give 20hp more is worth the money.well thats what i thought adam .however i think my tubs that are on the car are f**ked so might not be 100% true reading if you see where im coming from .but the bloke did say "it dosnt sound much bigger than standard comp wheel but there is only 4mm diffrence between a td0414 and a td0419 witch produces 50bhp more at 1 bar".i will keep you all updated as i go

foxdie
10-12-2015, 08:34 PM
Very keen to see the results for this :)

billybobboot
10-12-2015, 11:56 PM
Will be intresting to see. As said cams will help.

paulbonner84
11-12-2015, 08:58 PM
Will be intresting to see. As said cams will help.
if there was/is someone in the uk that dose them id considor getting cams aswell

billybobboot
11-12-2015, 10:53 PM
I had to go to nz im sure there are people places in the uk that would do them its just a case of finding someone.

giblet
12-12-2015, 10:54 AM
With cams are the originals reground or did you have new ones made?

Davezj
12-12-2015, 04:07 PM
It is the original cam shaft that get re ground.
The bottom of the cam lobe gets ground off to give the additional lift and the profile of the shoulders of the lobe are changed slightly. Can't remember exactly .

giblet
12-12-2015, 04:25 PM
I know of a local mechanic who builds race engines etc. Will be seeing him next weekend so I'll ask him if it's something he can do and if so at what cost.

Davezj
12-12-2015, 04:36 PM
I have a copy of the cam profile print out that Adam Findlay posted up for the 262 degree cams he did. I can send you a copy of that and it will be much more obvious to the mechanic what is required if he can do cam regrinds.

MarkSanne
12-12-2015, 06:27 PM
There was an episode of the Mike & Edd show where they did a cam regrind. Can't remember which episode, maybe that old rally Escort?
Such a place would be perfect! And I'm pretty sure they mentioned the price for that work too.

giblet
12-12-2015, 06:55 PM
I have a copy of the cam profile print out that Adam Findlay posted up for the 262 degree cams he did. I can send you a copy of that and it will be much more obvious to the mechanic what is required if he can do cam regrinds.

That would be perfect. I'll pm you my email address.

Davezj
12-12-2015, 07:05 PM
Ok, but I am away from home this weekend
The earliest I can get it to you is Sunday evening once I have drive back from Southampton to Manchester, as it on my laptop and I have not brought it with me.

giblet
12-12-2015, 07:13 PM
No worries. I'm not visiting him until next Saturday.

Davezj
12-12-2015, 07:15 PM
There was an episode of the Mike & Edd show where they did a cam regrind. Can't remember which episode, maybe that old rally Escort?
Such a place would be perfect! And I'm pretty sure they mentioned the price for that work too.

I remember the episode mark I will see if I can get the name of the company.
Oh if my memory serves me right, I think it was the 240z build but that was done in the over in the USA serise. They did the cam and the auto to manual conversion as well I think.

The company welded metal onto the cam to build up the lobe then ground it back down to the correct profile for a mild power hike and heat treated it to harden the surface.

MarkSanne
12-12-2015, 07:46 PM
I think you're right Dave!

Adam.Findlay
14-12-2015, 10:11 AM
Here are the cam regrinds I do FYI.
Proven results time and time again.

74115
74116
74117
74118

Davezj
14-12-2015, 10:54 AM
If you were based in the uk Adam I would not hesitate to get you to do the cam regrinds me. As you say you have many sets out there in cars and they do what they are supposed to do.

But for us in the uk the shipping, import duty and tax that is applied to the parts on import makes them a lot more expensive.
We would have to pay about 40% more for the parts than you offer them for sale in NZ when add in all the cost. Plus we would probably get stung for a handling fee as well if the import duty was not paid for by you prior to shipping.

This is the only reason I would consider getting something made locally.

What is your price for cam only regrinds at the moment in NZ dollars.
If I send old cams to you.

Adam.Findlay
14-12-2015, 11:02 AM
I have sent a few sets to the UK now and provided you are willing to take the risk I am happy to undervalue to package so you can avoid import taxes.

for a cam regrind and 24 springs its 900NZD plus shipping provided you send me some stock cams to grind.
I can do it on exhange too so you dont have to have spare cams or take your car off the road but I would need a $150 bond to ensure I do get some stock cams returned to me at the end of the day

Davezj
14-12-2015, 12:16 PM
How much without springs?
I have spring already.

adaxo
14-12-2015, 12:50 PM
I may make a Christmas present for my vr4?
Very tempting.

Davezj
14-12-2015, 03:31 PM
It is slightly more than 2 NZD to 1 GBP.
Sorry for thread hijack.

Adam.Findlay
14-12-2015, 07:45 PM
What springs do you have? Just any old spring may not be suitable.
Just the regrind is 600NZD

Davezj
15-12-2015, 12:11 AM
the brian crowler BC1000 i think, they are the ones you specified you were going to use for you cam change.

i cant remeber where i have put them at the moment, i just had a look in the back bedroom and almost caused an avalanche of car parts. i have seen them recently but cant remeber where i saw them.
it is either in one of the two sheds or buried deeper in the back beedroom.
but i think they are BC1000 springs.

paulbonner84
19-02-2016, 10:15 PM
right guys ,i have got the turbos back at last ,with the new compressor wheel (from a transit turbo) and the houseing mhsheened out .it came to £580 in the end due to the bloke sorting out the houseing was a d#ck .anyway the man who has rebuilt them reckions that the work done should be able to add abouts 30/40bhp over the standard turbo ,but as he has never worked on our engines before it is only a educated guess by him ,he is also wants to know the results as he wants to see if he can improve them too
p.s sorry about the spelling

foxdie
19-02-2016, 10:18 PM
Reckon he could get a run of them going?

And when am I tuning it? ;)

paulbonner84
19-02-2016, 11:10 PM
he will do as many sets as wanted/needed .will see what the power outcome is and see how many people are intrested .he might do a discount on so many pairs .will chat to him properly over the next week or so and see what he says about it

Confused
20-02-2016, 12:56 AM
Reckon he could get a run of them going?

And when am I tuning it? ;)

When you arrange a day at Area 52? ;)

I need an Anglia tuning, too! ;)

foxdie
20-02-2016, 10:52 AM
When you arrange a day at Area 52? ;)

I need an Anglia tuning, too! ;)

As soon as we have a fair amount of people going :)

Confused
20-02-2016, 04:47 PM
Arrange it, and they will come!



;)

paulbonner84
14-05-2016, 07:56 PM
Finally got the turbos fitted .going to take for a nice steady drive tomorrow ready for next weekend

MarkSanne
14-05-2016, 08:03 PM
Exciting! Really interested to see how they react/behave!

TAR
15-06-2016, 10:09 PM
paulbonner84 how are you getting on with these rebuilt turbo's?

:happy:

TAR
12-07-2016, 10:07 PM
bumping this thread again
paulbonner84 any update for us?
:happy:

paulbonner84
13-07-2016, 02:34 PM
Sorry it's been a while, been busy .any way results so far the car had a few issues on the day of the dyno but mange to get same power as before but running lower boost .so now I've sorted issues with car and uped the boost will put back on dyno and put full details and figures of the results

TAR
13-07-2016, 05:20 PM
thanks for the update Paul. Looking forward to the results.
:happy:

TAR
30-08-2016, 10:15 PM
paulbonner84
Any update on this. I need to get my turbo's reconditioned and I'm wondering whether to go with this mod.

:happy:

gavkat09
02-09-2016, 02:32 AM
any updates paul

Davezj
02-09-2016, 01:46 PM
any updates paul

If you any someone to be prompted by a post, you need to do what TAR did and poke Paul with paulbonner84




Sent from my space-aged gizmo

TAR
02-01-2017, 07:53 PM
paulbonner84

Still hoping you'll update this thread.

:happy: