OVERHEATING & Absolutely Clueless What To Do Help Needed

[coney]

Where do i start :sick::sick::sick:

Some of you may know i've had a full engine rebuild but having only been out in the car just the once since having it back in june last year & overheated that time its been waiting inline at GR-Performance a local Subaru & Mitsubishi Specialist but having spoken to them today things are looking a little grim to say the least!

They said what i already had an idea about, That was the fans (fan only one could be fitted due to the close proximity of the front turbo) behined the intercooler are only engaged when the car is static, but when my mate took the car to GR he had to pull over a total of 6 times (this was on a 12 degree fahrenheit day baring in mind) from here to there it's only 20 minutes away is horrendous!
What they said to me today was shattering! the are going to do all the usual checks but couldn't put it would on the dyno if all the checks came back without any significant problems & they would do more damage obviously if it's overheating when the car is moving the fan on the dyno wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

Then came the salt in the wound, Tey said if it is something internally they don't specialize in these V6 engines & would need to find a specialist who would be able to diagnose the problem even a complete strip down.

I'm afraid if it does need a complete strip down that will be the end of my VR4 days & will be selling it for parts.

If any of you guys can help bring what the problem is to light you will believe how grateful i would be!

Regards

Neal

[Nick Mann]

The fan control on the standard car is weird, they run at various voltages depending on several inputs to the ecu including temperatures and if air con is engaged. Could you wire your fan to be permanently spinning? You give the impression that it doesn't overheat when idling?

[swinks]

Seconded to what Nick says.
I believe you have standalone ecu. Well, why not use fan control as on/off status, you can hook one to ignition ACC and this is sorted. Or you can hook one to aftermarket controller based on temperature in upper hose (it's own temp sensor control, once temp reach 71C it will trigger fans to switch on), I have such controller somewhere here in drawers from old good vr4 times.
Another idea is just to use so called "half radiator" from Evo market. These rads are especially designed for Evos running big turbo setup where space between manifold and turbo in front is very limited. So they use thick "half rad" with single aftermarket fan. That is efficient for drag racing Evos so should be for yourself. Saying that because I'm afraid single fan for thick regular size radiator may not be efficient enough, you are leaving half of rad area not cooled at all.

[giblet]

Would it not be better to have the car shipped to Eurospec? The chaps there all well versed with the VR4 so would be better placed to diagnose any issues and rectify them.

[Confused]

Only having a single fan shouldn't cause a problem - the fan is only really used when the car is stationary, and the coolant is up to temperature.

The standard ECU does not just switch the fan on or off, it uses one of the two coolant temperature sensors in the top of the thermostat housing to vary the fan speed based on coolant temperature - it comes on slowly at about 90 degrees, and reaches full speed when the coolant is approaching about 110 degrees. If either the coolant temperature sensor, or the "hedgehog" transistor pack which is usually bolted to the back of the fan housing.

It also switches the fans on/off based on the status of the air conditioning.


When driving (especially at light throttle and a steady speed), there will be sufficient air flowing through the radiator to not require the fans to engage, which should keep the engine cool, PROVIDING that the coolant system itself is functioning correctly.


So - first off, provide us with some more details.

Are you using the standard ECU? If so, have you hooked up EvoScan (even with a cheap £10 VAG KKL cable) to check that the coolant temperature sensor is functioning correctly? This is an ~£8 part which could solve all your issues if it is not functioning correctly!

Do you still have the original fan "hedgehog" controller? And if so, which of the two fans did you disconnect from it? The hard-wired one, or the one that plugs in to it?


If you don't have the standard ECU, what wiring changes have been made to control the fan?

Are you sure that the coolant system itself is functioning correctly, without any air locks or blockages? Have you replaced the thermostat? Have you replaced the radiator cap with a new, genuine part? Does your heater inside the car work?

[apeman69]

Is it the same company that did the engine rebuild? Have the obvious things like a blocked radiator or pipe been checked or, as said above, is the temp reading on the gauge correct (is it really overheating or does it just think it's overheating)?
It's always possible that the radiator or a pipe was plugged with something for convenience during the engine rebuild and somebody forgot to remove the obstruction.
Is it overheating when idling for a long time or only overheating under load?

[coney]

The fan control on the standard car is weird, they run at various voltages depending on several inputs to the ecu including temperatures and if air con is engaged. Could you wire your fan to be permanently spinning? You give the impression that it doesn't overheat when idling?

My problem is Nick i can't physically do anything to the car which is whats getting to the most, so i don't know how the fan is being controlled,when the car is fired up you can hear the fan engaging, On the first initial outing it only overheated when we were waiting for 4 cars to go through the petrol station till we got to fill mine up,it was only when we pulled out it judderd and cut out as i said before.
All i can do Nick is pass the word on or try to find out how the fan setup to work with the ecu.
Sorry if i gave that impression about the fan.

[coney]

Seconded to what Nick says.
I believe you have standalone ecu. Well, why not use fan control as on/off status, you can hook one to ignition ACC and this is sorted. Or you can hook one to aftermarket controller based on temperature in upper hose (it's own temp sensor control, once temp reach 71C it will trigger fans to switch on), I have such controller somewhere here in drawers from old good vr4 times.
Another idea is just to use so called "half radiator" from Evo market. These rads are especially designed for Evos running big turbo setup where space between manifold and turbo in front is very limited. So they use thick "half rad" with single aftermarket fan. That is efficient for drag racing Evos so should be for yourself. Saying that because I'm afraid single fan for thick regular size radiator may not be efficient enough, you are leaving half of rad area not cooled at all.
Swinks yes Vipec v44 i believe,if i'm honesty with 90% of what you said has gone over my head i suppose it's just simply because i can't get my head under bonnet,its all well & good reading but trying to absorb information when your not looking at what your actually reading plus the fact after all these years things still don't sink in due to damaging my frontal lobe all adds up to a completely ****e memory to the point where i can at times forget what i'm saying mid convertion. I've heard people tell me that a certain person has called me just plain thick & play on the brain damage from the volvo hitting me,that kinda hurt & pissed me off at the same time.

[coney]

Would it not be better to have the car shipped to Eurospec? The chaps there all well versed with the VR4 so would be better placed to diagnose any issues and rectify them.
Giblet it boils down to money at the end of the day mate,if i knew it could all be sorted out for say £1000 i'd be arranging it now!

[coney]

Only having a single fan shouldn't cause a problem - the fan is only really used when the car is stationary, and the coolant is up to temperature.

The standard ECU does not just switch the fan on or off, it uses one of the two coolant temperature sensors in the top of the thermostat housing to vary the fan speed based on coolant temperature - it comes on slowly at about 90 degrees, and reaches full speed when the coolant is approaching about 110 degrees. If either the coolant temperature sensor, or the "hedgehog" transistor pack which is usually bolted to the back of the fan housing.

It also switches the fans on/off based on the status of the air conditioning.


When driving (especially at light throttle and a steady speed), there will be sufficient air flowing through the radiator to not require the fans to engage, which should keep the engine cool, PROVIDING that the coolant system itself is functioning correctly.


So - first off, provide us with some more details.

Are you using the standard ECU? If so, have you hooked up EvoScan (even with a cheap £10 VAG KKL cable) to check that the coolant temperature sensor is functioning correctly? This is an ~£8 part which could solve all your issues if it is not functioning correctly!

Do you still have the original fan "hedgehog" controller? And if so, which of the two fans did you disconnect from it? The hard-wired one, or the one that plugs in to it?


If you don't have the standard ECU, what wiring changes have been made to control the fan?

Are you sure that the coolant system itself is functioning correctly, without any air locks or blockages? Have you replaced the thermostat? Have you replaced the radiator cap with a new, genuine part? Does your heater inside the car work?
Confused its a vipec v44 if i remember righly,i didn't do the work myself i'm paralyzed from the neck down hence why i had all the work done for me,i don't know what work was done with the wiring of the fans,intercooler ect.

[coney]

Is it the same company that did the engine rebuild? Have the obvious things like a blocked radiator or pipe been checked or, as said above, is the temp reading on the gauge correct (is it really overheating or does it just think it's overheating)?
It's always possible that the radiator or a pipe was plugged with something for convenience during the engine rebuild and somebody forgot to remove the obstruction.
Is it overheating when idling for a long time or only overheating under load?
Apeman Not a company the same person,apparently when the car was dropped off it had covered 2000 miles without a glitch yet the first time i went out in it it overheats but i'm not going into who's a fault all i will say it wasn't anything me or my carer,dad or mate did.
So as far as i'm aware if the car had done the 2000 miles prior to been dropped off the back of the flatback there shouldn't have been any blockages what so ever.

The Gauge Sensor is another sore subject as far as i'm concerned! the person who did all the work knew the sensor could have been iffy but said i was rushing him for time but over a full year isn't rushing in my mind unless i'm highly weird & time goes faster than i realise!

To be honest Apeman both.

[coney]

Is it the same company that did the engine rebuild? Have the obvious things like a blocked radiator or pipe been checked or, as said above, is the temp reading on the gauge correct (is it really overheating or does it just think it's overheating)?
It's always possible that the radiator or a pipe was plugged with something for convenience during the engine rebuild and somebody forgot to remove the obstruction.
Is it overheating when idling for a long time or only overheating under load?
Apeman Not a company the same person,apparently when the car was dropped off it had covered 2000 miles without a glitch yet the first time i went out in it it overheats but i'm not going into who's a fault all i will say it wasn't anything me or my carer,dad or mate did.
So as far as i'm aware if the car had done the 2000 miles prior to been dropped off the back of the flatback there shouldn't have been any blockages what so ever.

The Gauge Sensor is another sore subject as far as i'm concerned! the person who did all the work knew the sensor could have been iffy but said i was rushing him for time but over a full year isn't rushing in my mind unless i'm highly weird & time goes faster than i realise!

To be honest Apeman both.

[Louis]

I think you need a short list of what needs done to fix basics and then take it to a tuner, who knows Vipec, to sort it out.
Reading from other posts I don't think it is an internal engine issue, more of a tuning issue, combined with possibly a couple of sensors.
At the end of the day it will cost money at a tuners to diagnose and program.
It may just need dumbing down! for daily use, a tuner could possibly fit a piggy back ecu like E manage so it is not so complicated.
But like any car, a garage or tuner will have to diagnose by running engine (rolling road) and reading ecu to see what is happening.
If you point them in the right direction it will be fixable, but fine tuning takes time and time is money.
On a side note Eurospec sell and tune Vipec units.

[Grid]

I know you have a trust issue with the person that made the overhaul. However he can probably fix all issues the quickest. Technically speaking. On human terms - I don't know where you two left off.

[coney]

I think you need a short list of what needs done to fix basics and then take it to a tuner, who knows Vipec, to sort it out.
Reading from other posts I don't think it is an internal engine issue, more of a tuning issue, combined with possibly a couple of sensors.
At the end of the day it will cost money at a tuners to diagnose and program.
It may just need dumbing down! for daily use, a tuner could possibly fit a piggy back ecu like E manage so it is not so complicated.
But like any car, a garage or tuner will have to diagnose by running engine (rolling road) and reading ecu to see what is happening.
If you point them in the right direction it will be fixable, but fine tuning takes time and time is money.
On a side note Eurospec sell and tune Vipec units.
Louis how can i possibly come up with a short list of what needs to be done when i i haven't got the foggiest idea of what exactly is causing the issues & what makes it harder is not being able to do any work myself , the only thing i can do is try to explain what happened when it cut out.? I can't find anybody who knows the vipec's ECU'S well isonly Euro-spec, i sent Ben an email yesterday night so i should imagine he will be getting back to me on monday hopefully.

I uploaded a few videos on youtube which i'll add links to in an hour or so.

[coney]

A few videos of it trying star!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6BUxHf7Af0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rl0x9boqOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ptvEXjpg6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vPBxugPCD0

[Davezj]

this might sound an odd quiestion, but does the cooling system have a thermostat fittted.

without it the cooling system will not operate correctly the coolant will tend to just flow round and round the engine without passing through the radiator. the radiator will get hot due to convection of hot coolant but it will not be cooling the engine.

just a thought.

[swinks]

this might sound an odd quiestion, but does the cooling system have a thermostat fittted.

without it the cooling system will not operate correctly the coolant will tend to just flow round and round the engine without passing through the radiator. the radiator will get hot due to convection of hot coolant but it will not be cooling the engine.

just a thought.
Not the case Dave, flow of coolant is forced by water pump. Lack of thermostat will actually drop temp of coolant quite dramatically, especially under driving conditions.

[swinks]

IIRC, ViPec standalone ecu is now rebranded as "Link G4".
Indigo GT seems to specialize in these ecu's. And excellent tunning place as well.

[apeman69]

I'd be looking at your engine temp sensor and wiring from this to the Vipec. Maybe the sensor has failed or wiring has been dislodged somehow when it was transported to you. Perhaps the tuning isn't right for the temp sensor but this would have shown up in the initial 2000 miles unless your tuner is telling porkies. I'm not clear if you had the car for these 2000 miles or the tuner.
If the tuning is questionable and the ECU's getting spurious readings from temp sensor this could cause you problems starting (which I've seen from your videos) and running.
I couldn't hear much in the videos but I saw you showing a couple of dangly wires. Surely these could have been dislodged by drivers' feet.
I'd expect whoever did the work to backtrack over the fitment as a matter of urgency and not put you into a year-long queue. Maybe it's time to get tough with him?

[Louis]

I see a few things listed in your other thread (vented bonnet wanted) that may contribute to the causes!.
I mean make a list from the thread, so you can give a tuner an idea of where to start.
removing the thermostat to see how it runs without one would be a start!.
then they can look at cold start mapping etc, and then poss sensor fails, and then tune from there!

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?74834-vented-bonnet/page2




Louis how can i possibly come up with a short list of what needs to be done when i i haven't got the foggiest idea of what exactly is causing the issues & what makes it harder is not being able to do any work myself , the only thing i can do is try to explain what happened when it cut out.? I can't find anybody who knows the vipec's ECU'S well isonly Euro-spec, i sent Ben an email yesterday night so i should imagine he will be getting back to me on monday hopefully.

I uploaded a few videos on youtube which i'll add links to in an hour or so.

[coney]

Louis i can't go through that thread again mate,i only read the part where HE said "there were no overheating problems when i had it & had a friend sat at the side of me" tat was enough to get the bloodpressure going again! bascally saying whatever the overheating problem is it's down to me. I don't want to go through that thread ever again.

I'll pass the message onto the people who have the car at the moment see what they say.

[coney]

Does anybody know of anywhere closer to me another place like Eurospec? o another engine rebuiders if worst case scenario somebody who knows what there doing & can stand by there work if anything goes wrong?

[coney]

this might sound an odd quiestion, but does the cooling system have a thermostat fittted.

without it the cooling system will not operate correctly the coolant will tend to just flow round and round the engine without passing through the radiator. the radiator will get hot due to convection of hot coolant but it will not be cooling the engine.

just a thought.
Dave i have no idea the best person to ask about all that sort of stuff is the person who did the actual build

[coney]

I know you have a trust issue with the person that made the overhaul. However he can probably fix all issues the quickest. Technically speaking. On human terms - I don't know where you two left off.

Not in a good way the thing what made me want to murder somebody was the fact that he said the car was fine when it was dropped off on the back of a truck.

The car had been moved a maximum of 3 times on the drive way,we had to organise the my Legnum,my Audi S2,My Chrysler voyager & my mothers landrover that was the only time it got moved before we went out in it so if something can break in that short space of time then something wasn't right from the start IMO

[coney]

IIRC, ViPec standalone ecu is now rebranded as "Link G4".
Indigo GT seems to specialize in these ecu's. And excellent tunning place as well.

Swinks i'll have to have a look at that Indigo GT see if they can work out what the fault is. Cheers buddy

[coney]

I'd be looking at your engine temp sensor and wiring from this to the Vipec. Maybe the sensor has failed or wiring has been dislodged somehow when it was transported to you. Perhaps the tuning isn't right for the temp sensor but this would have shown up in the initial 2000 miles unless your tuner is telling porkies. I'm not clear if you had the car for these 2000 miles or the tuner.
If the tuning is questionable and the ECU's getting spurious readings from temp sensor this could cause you problems starting (which I've seen from your videos) and running.
I couldn't hear much in the videos but I saw you showing a couple of dangly wires. Surely these could have been dislodged by drivers' feet.
I'd expect whoever did the work to backtrack over the fitment as a matter of urgency and not put you into a year-long queue. Maybe it's time to get tough with him?
Apeman supposedly the car was running perfectly when the tuner had it, & could very well have been telling porkies but yet a member off here was with the tuner when it did the 2000 miles there's only one person that can set the record straight but i very much doubt that will happen!

They aren't the only wires dangling down just above the footwell in the drivers side theres wires dangling down everywhere, i can't remember if there was something there before that held all all the wires up. I've got some pictures that my nephew took there not the best in the world but you should be able to see what i mean!

[apeman69]

Coney, please disregard most of what I have written thus far (except the dangly wires bit).
I had no idea of the history of your potential beast and have since read the thread pointed to above.
It seems your best course of action to get the car right is getting it to an experienced Vipec/Link tuner. Indeed, your engine builder & tuner seemed to point out that the mapping was not yet to the level that you were expecting: he commented about starting problems being related to the mapping so, clearly the tune is not ideal.
From my own experience I would urge you to get it to a Link specialist. I had similar 'not ideal' tuning with my car which Eurospec corrected (adding 21 BHP, more torque, better cold starting & running and smoother gear changes to my automatic.)
I'm sure the car isn't far from being a nice machine. Once they're modified to such an extent the mapping really needs to be seriously as good as it can be.

[Confused]

Taking it to someone new means that they will need to start from scratch with it - they will need to go over every wire, nut and bolt with a fine tooth comb, before they can even begin to actually do anything with it so that they have an understanding of what they have in front of them.

This has an advantage and a disadvantage.

The advantage is that everything will be looked at with fresh eyes, which always helps. When you are "close" to something, and have done the work yourself, you do not view it in the same critical manner as someone else, because you have done the work. I see it all the time with my Anglia - people are fascinated by things that I don't really notice any more, because I did all the work.

The disadvantage is that this process takes time, and when it's not yourself, time costs money.

[apeman69]

As the Vipec/Link Ecu is (or should be) controlling everything essential then this must surely be the starting point for fault diagnosis. A Link specialist tuner will be able to determine if sensors are working correctly, how appropriate and complete the tuning is, whether the Ecu is getting correct and expected information and how it is processing this information. It's like saying to a regular VR-4 owner "what does Evoscan tell you" but more expensive and more insightful.
The Vipec is a standalone Ecu which has been designed to replace a multitude of 'normal' Ecus and therefore the programming and diagnostic software used with it has to be comprehensive enough to cater for a multitude of vehicles, all of which have their own variances.
I understand that you may be concerned about problems with the internals of the engine but is this because the Subaru/Mitsubishi company you said put these fears into your head have not investigated the possibility of inappropriate tuning or Ecu related problems or is it because there is a definite possibility of internal problems? Did they ever find any definite problems or was it a case of "could be this, could be that, either way it's gonna cost ya"
Sorry to state the obvious but it seems you've had the wrong people (for you) working on your car start to finish. I'm not being cheeky or meaning anything negative. My sympathies really are with you and I can imagine how downbeat and stranded you may feel.

[apeman69]

BTW when you get a reply to your email to Eurospec I'd be interested to hear what their take on it is, if you don't mind sharing of course.

[Davezj]

Not the case Dave, flow of coolant is forced by water pump. Lack of thermostat will actually drop temp of coolant quite dramatically, especially under driving conditions.

I know the flow of coolant is force round by the water pump it is the direction around the engine and rad of that flow that is changed by the thermostat opening and closing.
It is either directed round and round the engine without going through the Rad when the thermostat is closed and directed through the radiator and blocks off the internal round the round the engine flow when the thermostat is open.
No Thermostat will result in both round and round the engine and through the rad what the ration will be is any ones guess without measuring properly. I suspect this will cause over heating issues.
All it takes is a slight blockage in a pipe or a slightly more of a bend in pipe that will change the direction of flow as the coolant will take the path of least restriction. If the engine was designed to run with a thermostat how can removing it be of benefit.

I presume you are going to say you have been running without a thermostat for years and had no issue. if that is true did you measure the flow of the coolant through the Rad when compared to the total flow of the water pump to establish the ratio of the flow.

[Louis]

Remove thermostat to see if it makes a difference.
a poss cause mentioned was the thermostat might not be opening!
it at least rules it out.
:)

[Confused]

If you're stripping it down to the point of removing the thermostat - just put a new one in, and only do the labour part once.

There are some components that it makes no sense to *not* just replace - those being thermostat and engine coolant temperature sensor to name but two.

[swinks]

I presume you are going to say you have been running without a thermostat for years and had no issue. if that is true did you measure the flow of the coolant through the Rad when compared to the total flow of the water pump to establish the ratio of the flow.
Nah, I used uprated SARD 71C thermostat.
But beforehand once my old one gone stuck closed I ran for 3 days without one. Simply, you will see temperatures much below desired level so your ecu will put enriched fuelling thinking it's still warm-up time. No good for fuel consumption. That's from practical experience. Also it is quite common old-school temporary cure if you experience stuck close thermostat. Safe practice, don't worry coolant is running through rad, no doubt. :)

[Davezj]

yep just replace the thermostat if it is fitted, the other one is Rad cap a faulty one that does not hold pressure will allow the coolant to boil and at idle.
sensor
then rad cap
then thermstat.

in order of how easy and effectivethe fix will be.
firstly you need to know that the temp reading is correct, so you actually know if it is overheating or not, evoscan connected to the car can monitor the two wire temp sensor and the dash gauge can monitor the single wire temp sensor. it is unlikely both are failty so wait for the temp on the dash gauge to get to what you see as over heating, if the evoscan gauge temp is only 90Deg C then the single wire sensor is faulty the evoscan temp sensor can get to 110deg C in a normal working correctly car if it just left to idle at standstill. the dash gauge should be still be about halk way when the evoscan temp is at 110deg C
by the way the evoscan temp reading you should be monitoring it the cooalant temp scaled not the basic coolant temp.

once you have established the temp monitoring is working correctly you can swap the Rad cap and see if make a difference

then you can swap the thermostat to see if that make a difference.

well it is a resonable way of doing it.

[coney]

Coney, please disregard most of what I have written thus far (except the dangly wires bit).
I had no idea of the history of your potential beast and have since read the thread pointed to above.
It seems your best course of action to get the car right is getting it to an experienced Vipec/Link tuner. Indeed, your engine builder & tuner seemed to point out that the mapping was not yet to the level that you were expecting: he commented about starting problems being related to the mapping so, clearly the tune is not ideal.
From my own experience I would urge you to get it to a Link specialist. I had similar 'not ideal' tuning with my car which Eurospec corrected (adding 21 BHP, more torque, better cold starting & running and smoother gear changes to my automatic.)
I'm sure the car isn't far from being a nice machine. Once they're modified to such an extent the mapping really needs to be seriously as good as it can be.
Well tbh with you apeman i emailed this company a copy of the dyno print & map & the bloke put his head in his hands and started shaking his head & started lol. so i don't think he was impressed to say the least!
The place where its at are going to do some tests to the engine then go from there!

[Davezj]

Nah, I used uprated SARD 71C thermostat.
But beforehand once my old one gone stuck closed I ran for 3 days without one. Simply, you will see temperatures much below desired level so your ecu will put enriched fuelling thinking it's still warm-up time. No good for fuel consumption. That's from practical experience. Also it is quite common old-school temporary cure if you experience stuck close thermostat. Safe practice, don't worry coolant is running through rad, no doubt. :)

old skool cooling systems like the one o used to have on my MKII escort and cavalier only have thermostat open or closes to make the coolant run through the rad or not, the other valve on bottom of the thermostat is not present.
but fair enough i get what you mean, and it is good to know the coolant will run through the rad to some degree in a VR4 if the thermostat is not fitted.

[apeman69]

Thermostat working or not will not cause the sort of problems experienced in starting the car. I think all this cooling system talk will turn out to be a red herring. If an experienced tuner shakes his head and laughs at a dyno print and mapping file then what should this tell you. I speak from my own experience with mapping done by the same person as Coney. I was not too impressed and had to get it corrected.
At least mine would start without problem but ran like a dog until warm. No such problems now. Cold start mapping adjustments along with other tweaks were required.

[apeman69]

I have also had my piggyback Ecu lose it's map altogether and you really cannot imagine the effect that an incorrect tune can have on your car unless you have experienced it.

[Davezj]

Thermostat working or not will not cause the sort of problems experienced in starting the car. I think all this cooling system talk will turn out to be a red herring. If an experienced tuner shakes his head and laughs at a dyno print and mapping file then what should this tell you. I speak from my own experience with mapping done by the same person as Coney. I was not too impressed and had to get it corrected.
At least mine would start without problem but ran like a dog until warm. No such problems now. Cold start mapping adjustments along with other tweaks were required.

no it will not, it is obvious that this guy does not have one problem, i am just responding to the request for help in overheating issue.

[coney]

BTW when you get a reply to your email to Eurospec I'd be interested to hear what their take on it is, if you don't mind sharing of course.

Yes apeman no problem at all mate anything to help get it sorted out its been a sleeping beast for way to long & needs its lazy ass waking up! i might help any others who might have the same problem in the near future!

[swinks]

Seconded to Alan regarding bad tune. Cold start issues, rough idle etc. It's not an easy job to setup good maps for heavily modified engine, sometimes you will need to sacrifice some to achieve goal in other areas. Especially if you run very aggressive camshafts with high lift and big turbo. Anyway, it's job for good reputable tuner to work out and address issues.
I can recommend following places for you Neal, but you have to be aware that it's gonna be uneasy talk with tuners (usually they not keen on putting back together someone other job), and also it will involve some serious money, so here is the list (not particular order):
- Gaz @CPP (near Crewe)
https://www.facebook.com/cpp.motor.developments
- Mark Shead @M.A.Developments (Berkshire)
http://www.madevelopments.com/
- Anthony @Indigo-GT (south Wales)
http://www.indigo-gt.com/
- Nick @NR Autosport (Lincoln)
http://www.nr-autosport.com/
- Lee and Bob @Dynotech (east London)
http://www.hayesdynotech.co.uk/
- Mat @M.G.Autos (Nottinghamshire)
https://www.facebook.com/MG-Auto-Motorsport-204185953013720/
just to name the few...

Good luck Neal!

[coney]

Seconded to Alan regarding bad tune. Cold start issues, rough idle etc. It's not an easy job to setup good maps for heavily modified engine, sometimes you will need to sacrifice some to achieve goal in other areas. Especially if you run very aggressive camshafts with high lift and big turbo. Anyway, it's job for good reputable tuner to work out and address issues.
I can recommend following places for you Neal, but you have to be aware that it's gonna be uneasy talk with tuners (usually they not keen on putting back together someone other job), and also it will involve some serious money, so here is the list (not particular order):
- Gaz @CPP (near Crewe)
https://www.facebook.com/cpp.motor.developments
- Mark Shead @M.A.Developments (Berkshire)
http://www.madevelopments.com/
- Anthony @Indigo-GT (south Wales)
http://www.indigo-gt.com/
- Nick @NR Autosport (Lincoln)
http://www.nr-autosport.com/
- Lee and Bob @Dynotech (east London)
http://www.hayesdynotech.co.uk/
- Mat @M.G.Autos (Nottinghamshire)
https://www.facebook.com/MG-Auto-Motorsport-204185953013720/
just to name the few...

Good luck Neal!
Cheers swinks much appreciated, i been in touch with ben from Eurospec & he's said he will arrange for the car to be picked up & take a look at the car for me i'm sure ben will be able to sort these issues out what do you think?

[Nick Mann]

Ben would be my choice. He knows VR4s and Vipec.

[coney]

I'm trying to organise it now with ben i've got a feeling its going to cost a pretty penny to get the car down there it works out to be about 3 half hours away.

[giblet]

I'm trying to organise it now with ben i've got a feeling its going to cost a pretty penny to get the car down there it works out to be about 3 half hours away.

Have a look for transporter quotes on Shiply.com

[coney]

Will do Gib thanks alot buddy

[coney]

Well i've tryed searching Shipsy & a few other websites but can't get the car down to Ben for this weekend,I'm not quite sure why Ben wanted it for this weekend but i look like having to phone him & trying to get it down for sometime next week if he isn't to busy to take delivery of it.

[Davezj]

just out of interest how much were quoted to transpost the car?

[Louis]

There are a few car transporter guys on ebay based around Yorkshire, ( can't remember where about in uk you are)

[Davezj]

I am in Manchester, but I was just wondering on the price for maybe future purchases of cars.
Is it fixed initial price then £1 a mile after that if so it would make a 250 mile pickup a bit pricey.

[apeman69]

I think Louis was replying to Neal, Dave.
When I last got a quote a few years ago it was a fixed initial fee plus cost per mile. I would imagine there's a general 'industry' standard pricing policy such as this and then the odd company which will be open to negotiation on a price.
For me it turned out cheaper (and more enjoyable) to drive 150ish miles to a port, pay for 4 passenger ferry fares, a car ferry fare back, then 2 cars driving the 150 miles from the port. What I'm saying is that it isn't the cheapest of transport options but then it's a monopolistic industry...... in rip-off Britain!

[coney]

just out of interest how much were quoted to transpost the car?

From Eurospec they quoted me £475 to take it there i'm assuming the same back.

[coney]

just out of interest how much were quoted to transpost the car?
Sheffield mate well Rotherham to be exact

[coney]

I am in Manchester, but I was just wondering on the price for maybe future purchases of cars.
Is it fixed initial price then £1 a mile after that if so it would make a 250 mile pickup a bit pricey.

From where i am to eurospec its 181 miles down M1 & 201 miles down M40, like i said earlier Eurospec quoted me £475 which included petrol/diesel & food, on shiply it was between £260 & £300 there so i should imagine it will be the same back.

[coney]

I am in Manchester, but I was just wondering on the price for maybe future purchases of cars.
Is it fixed initial price then £1 a mile after that if so it would make a 250 mile pickup a bit pricey.

From where i am to eurospec its 181 miles down M1 & 201 miles down M40, like i said earlier Eurospec quoted me £475 which included petrol/diesel & food, on shiply it was between £260 & £300 there so i should imagine it will be the same back.

[coney]

I think Louis was replying to Neal, Dave.
When I last got a quote a few years ago it was a fixed initial fee plus cost per mile. I would imagine there's a general 'industry' standard pricing policy such as this and then the odd company which will be open to negotiation on a price.
For me it turned out cheaper (and more enjoyable) to drive 150ish miles to a port, pay for 4 passenger ferry fares, a car ferry fare back, then 2 cars driving the 150 miles from the port. What I'm saying is that it isn't the cheapest of transport options but then it's a monopolistic industry...... in rip-off Britain!
I would have a drive down if it wasn't for fear of melting something down in the engine it's just not worth taking the risk imo.

[Gowf]

This thread is a it of a joke Neal. We have spoken about the issues with your car and why they are there. This engine is no longer a standard 6a13tt. As for what is wrong with it, it may have lifted the heads when it ran 2bar.. Bearing in mind that at 1.2bar it made 540bhp which is Clearly something to be laughed at. As for caring I do.... I currently work for a motorsport company where I map and run £150K engines for endurance racing.... But what do I know about engine calibration? Why has it been taken From gr performance? Your knew the deal eat due to time.if you would like to continue slating me online neal you will soon hear from my lawyer

[billybobboot]

Sounds more like its cooked the head gaskets if it over heats that quickly. 2 sounds like at all that boost the heads have lifted. 3rd i dont understand who build your engine to the point you cant fit 2 fans in ok yes there isnt loads of room but ive got the stock heat sheilds on and have a 52mm thick rad and 2 fan units run from the stock fan relay and i can still see daylight past the fans and heat sheild let a loan the turbos. I put your clearance down to poor design and very poor thinking before building.

[Nick Mann]

Gowf, I actually thought that this thread was not getting personal. Feel free to send me a text or pm if there is something specific you are unhappy with. You know me well enough bud!
My understanding is that Neal has a car which is very close to awesome and wants to solve the teething problems so he can enjoy the car.
So from my point of view I would like to see this thread continue in a positive way, problem solving and not trying to criticise or lay blame.

So to all, please think before posting and keep comments helpful and positive.

[Davezj]

a friemd of mine suggest another option for transporting a vehicle, and that is to hire a flat bed transporter and do the driving yourself.
he did this for transporting his car and if remember rightly it was quite a bit cheaper.
Unfortunately i cant remember the details but it was a hire place in liverpool.

[Gowf]

Sounds more like its cooked the head gaskets if it over heats that quickly. 2 sounds like at all that boost the heads have lifted. 3rd i dont understand who build your engine to the point you cant fit 2 fans in ok yes there isnt loads of room but ive got the stock heat sheilds on and have a 52mm thick rad and 2 fan units run from the stock fan relay and i can still see daylight past the fans and heat sheild let a loan the turbos. I put your clearance down to poor design and very poor thinking before building.

Do you have 2 gt2871s installed?

[coney]

This thread is a it of a joke Neal. We have spoken about the issues with your car and why they are there. This engine is no longer a standard 6a13tt. As for what is wrong with it, it may have lifted the heads when it ran 2bar.. Bearing in mind that at 1.2bar it made 540bhp which is Clearly something to be laughed at. As for caring I do.... I currently work for a motorsport company where I map and run £150K engines for endurance racing.... But what do I know about engine calibration? Why has it been taken From gr performance? Your knew the deal eat due to time.if you would like to continue slating me online neal you will soon hear from my lawyer
Gareth it may be a joke to you but it's not your car,time & money that has to be sacrificed is it! when i went out in it we never got near boost so i'm not even going into it again cause last time i got that wound up i could feel my heart beating so hard & fast it wasn't doing my heart problems any favours at all! Garth i don't really care whether you tune 150 million pound cars its my car & my money that i'm bothered about. don't come with the time thing again either you had my car well over a year. if you read this thread from the beginning you would know why it might have to go to eurospec. I came on here to try to get some help from people need to know what happened to it & i'm not lieing. Gareh bring your lawyers mine will chew you up & spit you out! whie we are the matter of lawyers i sent you a message simply saying i need a copy of the receipts for the parts i purchased for this build an invoice doesn't make one bit of difference.


If you haven't got anything constructive to add to this thread would you mind keeping out of it please! yu no longer have anything to do with the car its non of your business now what is happening to it,where it goes or anything.

PLEASE STOP POSTING In MY THREAD For MY HEALTH ATLEAST! Yu Have No IDEA WHAT All This Is DOING To MY HEALTH WHETHER YOU BELIEVE ME OR NOT BUT IF I END UP IN HOSPITAL WITH A HEART ATTACK Down to You THINGS MIGHT TURN UGLY I JUST WANT My Car To Get SORTED OUT NOT BY You!

[coney]

a friemd of mine suggest another option for transporting a vehicle, and that is to hire a flat bed transporter and do the driving yourself.
he did this for transporting his car and if remember rightly it was quite a bit cheaper.
Unfortunately i cant remember the details but it was a hire place in liverpool.
I can't drive at all not be due to not having a license but due to severe disabilities,, I got run over when i was 16 which broke my neck which left me permanently paralyzed from the neck down.

[coney]

Gowf, I actually thought that this thread was not getting personal. Feel free to send me a text or pm if there is something specific you are unhappy with. You know me well enough bud!
My understanding is that Neal has a car which is very close to awesome and wants to solve the teething problems so he can enjoy the car.
So from my point of view I would like to see this thread continue in a positive way, problem solving and not trying to criticise or lay blame.

So to all, please think before posting and keep comments helpful and positive.
Thank You Nick that is all i want nothing more nothing less just a beast that is reliable I can't even recall mentioning any names what so ever if i have nick would you kindly remove it please?,

My heart is beating so hard nobody would believe me untill i got hooked upto an ECG machine that would be the proof in the pudding! i know my body better than anybody else after nearly 18 years of being like this & 26 operations i think i have the right to say i do!

This is no sob story & hate people feeling sorry for me & despise pity!

[coney]

Sounds more like its cooked the head gaskets if it over heats that quickly. 2 sounds like at all that boost the heads have lifted. 3rd i dont understand who build your engine to the point you cant fit 2 fans in ok yes there isnt loads of room but ive got the stock heat sheilds on and have a 52mm thick rad and 2 fan units run from the stock fan relay and i can still see daylight past the fans and heat sheild let a loan the turbos. I put your clearance down to poor design and very poor thinking before building.
I'm not an expert by any means Billy & don't want to say anything because it seems i can't seem to post on here anymore without the thought of having an argument with somebody. If people knew me well they would know i'm one of the most laid back type of person anybody would wish to meet & probably the least argumentative type of person that would rather just stop posting on here altogether due to fear of getting into slanging matches everytime i post.

So after the car is fixed i will no longer be visiting this site again i'm 100% positive about that!

[billybobboot]

Do you have 2 gt2871s installed?
No i habe 2 td04s 19t installed!!

So may not be quite the same but will have has sim issues to me putting mine in.

[Davezj]

I can't drive at all not be due to not having a license but due to severe disabilities,, I got run over when i was 16 which broke my neck which left me permanently paralyzed from the neck down.

surely someone else could do the driving down and back.

if you don't mind me asking, you have bought/commissioned this car from Gowf, you cant drive, who is going to be driving this car, or is it going to be a show queen, and get trailord from show to show.

[Louis]

going on the info above, I don't think the car would make it to Eurospec from his place, due to overheating etc.
not sure how it works these days with AA or RAC, but if you are a member and you breakdown, some of them will take you to your destination. not strictly by the book, but it may be worth checking out the fine print!. (if you broke down on the way to see ?? where Eurospec are, and they transport the vehicle and driver and passengers to the destination, then when fixed, you drive back).
like I said not by the book. but a few years ago I broke down outside chichester on way back to glasgow, and the transported me and passenger and car back to my house.

[Davezj]

going on the info above, I don't think the car would make it to Eurospec from his place, due to overheating etc.
not sure how it works these days with AA or RAC, but if you are a member and you breakdown, some of them will take you to your destination. not strictly by the book, but it may be worth checking out the fine print!. (if you broke down on the way to see ?? where Eurospec are, and they transport the vehicle and driver and passengers to the destination, then when fixed, you drive back).
like I said not by the book. but a few years ago I broke down outside chichester on way back to glasgow, and the transported me and passenger and car back to my house.

now that is a very good idea.
you have to have the correct level of cover but would work. with the AA i think it is 'Relay' cover. As louis says they should take to a destination of your choice.

i used it when i trashed the engine in my old MKII cavalier admittedly i trashed the engine when driving to Bath (cough, cough, i ran out of oil, or i should say the oil ran out on me) limped to bath with a big end bearing banging away, but i had a nice weekend in bath and then got driven in a flat bed transport to back manchester, door to door. which was nice. went to a scrap yard got another engine for £80 and swapped it over.

[billybobboot]

Yes aa will cover also if you have aa bac cover they will pay first 500 - 35 too and you get the rest on fleet/trade price.
Think you get upto 6 calls a year with bac.
But yes relay will take you and car to any destination so you could get home and car goes to a garage.

[Pugme]

Why not just pull the engine out and send that down to eurospec?

If the issue is in the block why do they need the whole car?

Good job you didn't go for stance as well dude! Would have been double trouble!

[Louis]

it would be kind of tricky tuning it on their rolling road :) ???

[Pugme]

If it's just a map problem why can't it be remote mapped?

Evolve in Luton can remote map an m3 from where they are, surely something similar could be done here?

Even of its not perfect they will be able to get it close enough for the car to be driven?

[coney]

My mate drove it to GR Performance which is 30 minutes away & had to stop every couple of miles so driving down there it would take forever that is if it doesn't melt down before.

No i don't mind you asking Dave, I bought the car because i love to feel the power & the sound basically everything an able bodied person would feel but just can't move. When the car is done i will be going out with my mates exactly the same as i did with my G60 when that was running but like DéjÃ* vu i got ripped off big style infact it makes these problems i'm having with the Legnum look like scratch marks on a bumper!

I had a remark from a bloke on ebay i was trying to buy an RS2 Intercooler for my S2 who was just the dumbest,single minded,shallow thick person i could ever meet some of my mates you wouldn't like to bump into down a light ally never mind a dark what they wanted to do to the guy was OTT to say the least but same as i said to them violence doesn't solve anything although i can think of a few peoples hands that i could quite happily smash to pieces.

These are a few of few of the lighter things he said to me

[coney]

now that is a very good idea.
you have to have the correct level of cover but would work. with the AA i think it is 'Relay' cover. As louis says they should take to a destination of your choice.

i used it when i trashed the engine in my old MKII cavalier admittedly i trashed the engine when driving to Bath (cough, cough, i ran out of oil, or i should say the oil ran out on me) limped to bath with a big end bearing banging away, but i had a nice weekend in bath and then got driven in a flat bed transport to back manchester, door to door. which was nice. went to a scrap yard got another engine for £80 and swapped it over.
I wouldn't be able to get transferred into a van its to high, even getting out of the legnum is a struggle due to it being lowered & me being 6'2 didn't help. that first outing well when we got home i was being transferred from the legnum to the wheelchair & must have smashed my head into just about everything there was to hit my head on i managed to find it.

I'm not sure how it would work what you & Louis were talking about with the RAC or AA with the car been the named owner, I've heard some people talk about getting a car insured for any drivers over 25 is that a fact? if it does exist what amount of damage or should i say how much would it be insured for? Dos every single modification have to be declared?

[coney]

Its the money issues Darren which is the main restrictions & having somebody who would be able to do it, do you mean its a good job we didn't go for a long distance? if you did mean that i just didn't feel 100% confident in the car if anything i felt 100% uncomfortable but had to give it a shot at some point, een the first 10 minutes of being drove around there were judders between every gear,rattles,dodgy noises just sounded generally uneasy.

[Louis]

ii I remember right, a person can join the AA ( not the car) and the person is covered for any car they are in (whether it belongs to them or a friend). Depending on your insurance , if anyone else is covered to drive it, then who ever drives it for you can join the AA and drive the car then the AA will take them and the car to the destination, a bit convoluted but you get the idea.
Ps, try and keep this thread relevant to the problem with the car, and people will suggest ways to assist, anything else is just a distraction and people loose interest.
As far as I am aware from reading this thread and the previous linked one. The car has a cold start map tuning problem, and a probable general tuning problem, it has overheated but not damaged the engine (it might have, but you won't know until it is checked). There may be sensor issues or maybe it is just too aggressively mapped for out and out power rather than daily driver!.
I am sure once you get it to Ben he can check it and tell you what is up and what needs done to get it sorted for you.
:)

[Louis]

"Dos every single modification have to be declared?"

Is it insured yet???.
(Yes, to get valid insurance every single modification has to be listed)

[Pugme]

Nah I meant a long time ago you asked me about dished wheels and I told you what would be involved in getting the look,

My engine is fine, everything around it on the other hand.... Not so much lol

[coney]

I think i'll have to enquire to both the AA & RAC explain my situation & the fact that i can't get into a van/lorry whatever they pick the car up with & go from there.

I have to keep this thread on track that is the exact reason why no names have been mentioned (as far as i'm aware) & why have avoided any inclusions as to who did what. I i have would somebody mind sending me a PM or reporting it & ask for that certain part to be removed!

I have no idea what or why it would have a cold start issue all i know is its a bitch to start!

I'm 99% nothing has been damaged when it overheated! whn it did start to get warm it was pulled over & left to cool.

I'm trying to get it down to ben but i think from previous phone calls & emails he wants it it delivering on a weekend don't quote me on that.

[coney]

"Dos every single modification have to be declared?"

Is it insured yet???.
(Yes, to get valid insurance every single modification has to be listed)
Mmm thats going to take a while lol, i was told that if itell the insurance the car is under 500hp it won't effect the insurance so much. Wheher its true or not is another matter!

[coney]

Nah I meant a long time ago you asked me about dished wheels and I told you what would be involved in getting the look,

My engine is fine, everything around it on the other hand.... Not so much lol

I can honestly say i'm lost lol, i can remember asking about the dished wheels but what you told me about what it involved & everything else is a bit of a blur lol sorry Darren its my memory its shattered!

[Pugme]

Haha the camber and the lows! I have to change bearings every 500 miles ��

I hope your gonna come back to at least post what the fix on your engine is

[Louis]

[QUOTE=coney;811143]I think i'll have to enquire to both the AA & RAC explain my situation & the fact that i can't get into a van/lorry whatever they pick the car up with & go from there.

If you explain your situation they won't touch you!.
What I was suggesting is that you could use membership and say car has broken down and you are on way to a house where ben's place is. (and they will transport you there)
If you tell them there is a problem with the car they will not assist you as the problem is already there and you are aware of it.
I was meaning basically to lie, to get your car to Ben's for a much cheaper option.

I have read through two threads re your car, with comments from you and another person, and the cold start issue and other things are listed in the threads!.
That is why I said previously to make a list from the threads.

there is so much chat on these threads that people looking at them now are not sure what is the problem.
Just get it to bens for a re map and he will sort you out.
There is no given reason that the heads may have lifted or anything else has been damaged.
It is difficult to start and it overheats, that is it.
It was mentioned that the cold start mapping needs adjusted and checked, and that the thermostat Might be sticking.

In the long term, it's better just to bite the bullet and pay for the transport and get it sorted.
Then you can deal with insurance.
Did you not get an insurance quote before buying the car?

[Davezj]

My mate drove it to GR Performance which is 30 minutes away & had to stop every couple of miles so driving down there it would take forever that is if it doesn't melt down before.

No i don't mind you asking Dave, I bought the car because i love to feel the power & the sound basically everything an able bodied person would feel but just can't move. When the car is done i will be going out with my mates exactly the same as i did with my G60 when that was running but like DéjÃ* vu i got ripped off big style infact it makes these problems i'm having with the Legnum look like scratch marks on a bumper!

I had a remark from a bloke on ebay i was trying to buy an RS2 Intercooler for my S2 who was just the dumbest,single minded,shallow thick person i could ever meet some of my mates you wouldn't like to bump into down a light ally never mind a dark what they wanted to do to the guy was OTT to say the least but same as i said to them violence doesn't solve anything although i can think of a few peoples hands that i could quite happily smash to pieces.

These are a few of few of the lighter things he said to me

That is shocking response from the ebay seller!

[coney]

I'll leave the dished wheels for another day i'm scratching my head in so many places i don't know where the itch is anymore.

Yes mate of course i'll be coming back to let everybody know what the EVERYBODY know what the PROBLEMS are no worries about that!

[Davezj]

i have just found out you can hire car carring trailors so if someone has a tow bar it would probably be the cheapest way to transport a car across the country.
sorry didnt keep the link but all i did was google 'trailor hire'

just thought i would share.

[coney]

I'm going to get the transport sorted by any means necessary,ben said he has plenty of space at his so its not like the cars going to show up at his & its not going to be stuck outside or anything like that which is always a concerns.

As far as insurance goes i've been told ski is good but i have already used Adrian Flux from when i first got the car from Ebony & Ivory in the sheffield branch he's a nice genuine bloke who has a nice stock of cars.

I'll give ben a ring tomorrow & let him know i'll be arranging transport for sometime this week.

[coney]

i have just found out you can hire car carring trailors so if someone has a tow bar it would probably be the cheapest way to transport a car across the country.
sorry didnt keep the link but all i did was google 'trailor hire'

just thought i would share.
Good idea Dave i'm 75% sure one of my mates dad has one its just a matter of finding somebody who has a tow bar i know there's one in our garage somewhere hidden away with my G60 which is another itch that needs to be scratched desperately!

Cheers Dave!

[coney]

That is shocking response from the ebay seller!

It is mate i've had more in the last few days i've got a suspicion its a member of the S2 forums if i find out who it is my mates will have there wicked way if i say leave it or not i wouldn't like to be in there shoes thats a cert!

[coney]

How much more bad luck can i possibly have with this car? the front suspension has now completely gone,it looks like it's been purposely slammed to the floor. The EDFC has stopped working altogether won't power up at all & to top it off my mate took delivery of the car back from GR-Performance the "Mitsubishi Specialist" scraping like a dog with no legs scraping its bollo*ks on the floor i couldn't be outside with my mate due to being ill at the time to wake up to a some pictures of the car with a dint in the front right drivers wing just above the wing.

Its like amateur hour constantly with this car honestly! so where's the cheapest place to pick some Tein uspension up that will work with the EDFC?

[coney]

How much more bad luck can i possibly have with this car? the front suspension has now completely gone,it looks like it's been purposely slammed to the floor. The EDFC has stopped working altogether won't power up at all & to top it off my mate took delivery of the car back from GR-Performance the "Mitsubishi Specialist" scraping like a dog with no legs scraping its bollo*ks on the floor i couldn't be outside with my mate due to being ill at the time to wake up to a some pictures of the car with a dint in the front right drivers wing just above the wing.

Its like amateur hour constantly with this car honestly! so where's the cheapest place to pick some Tein uspension up that will work with the EDFC?

[Pugme]

What coilovers did you have? How/why have they collapsed?

I have teins and I will guarantee yours take no where near the abuse mine do (mine have been physically notched by the banana bar due to negative camber and get both shocks take impact hits when the car dips as there is no clearance) lol

Fitting new ones without eliminating or rectifying the cause will only cost you more in the long run

[Nick Mann]

Eurospec supplied my current Teins.

[Louis]

Edfc only adjusts the damping, the shock absorbing part of the coil over. If the height has changed it is probably not the damping or shock part that has failed a leaking shock would not effect ride height.
You have either broken the spring (2 at the same time seems unlikely unless someone has driven it into a kerb head on!).
Or broken the lower arm mount where the base of the coilover sits in!.
How did this damage occur?, and his did the wing get dented?, while the garage had it???.
It may not be the cool overs that have the problem.
The edfc unit is fitted to the top centre adjuster on the shock and rotates either way ( a small electric motor), to garden or soften the action of the shock.
Edfc failing or loosing live power would not effect the shocks working , only the adjustment of the shock if edfc fails the shocks will stay on the last setting, no other change!.
How long did they have it for?, did they fix any issues?

[Davezj]

How much more bad luck can i possibly have with this car? the front suspension has now completely gone,it looks like it's been purposely slammed to the floor. The EDFC has stopped working altogether won't power up at all & to top it off my mate took delivery of the car back from GR-Performance the "Mitsubishi Specialist" scraping like a dog with no legs scraping its bollo*ks on the floor i couldn't be outside with my mate due to being ill at the time to wake up to a some pictures of the car with a dint in the front right drivers wing just above the wing.

Its like amateur hour constantly with this car honestly! so where's the cheapest place to pick some Tein uspension up that will work with the EDFC?

What do you mean the suspension has collapsed and the EDFC has stopped working?
EDFC just adjusts the damping force of the shocks, dose nothing for the ride height.
the ride height is governed by the spring seat lock rings on the coilovers. it is possible for the seat lock rings to crack and break which will drop the car to the floor, but that is just due to old age and corrosion on the spring seat locking rings.

you will have to give a bit more detail, and propably ask the place the car was located what happened to drop the suspension on the car.

[coney]

What coilovers did you have? How/why have they collapsed?

I have teins and I will guarantee yours take no where near the abuse mine do (mine have been physically notched by the banana bar due to negative camber and get both shocks take impact hits when the car dips as there is no clearance) lol

Fitting new ones without eliminating or rectifying the cause will only cost you more in the long run
Mine aren't brand new Darren i have no idea how old they are.

I mean the front end of the car has dropped by inches.
They were bought by the person who built the engine and everything else off somebody on here if i'm not mistaken i'll to have a look on the invoice as its been that long i can't remember.

[coney]

Edfc only adjusts the damping, the shock absorbing part of the coil over. If the height has changed it is probably not the damping or shock part that has failed a leaking shock would not effect ride height.
You have either broken the spring (2 at the same time seems unlikely unless someone has driven it into a kerb head on!).
Or broken the lower arm mount where the base of the coilover sits in!.
How did this damage occur?, and his did the wing get dented?, while the garage had it???.
It may not be the cool overs that have the problem.
The edfc unit is fitted to the top centre adjuster on the shock and rotates either way ( a small electric motor), to garden or soften the action of the shock.
Edfc failing or loosing live power would not effect the shocks working , only the adjustment of the shock if edfc fails the shocks will stay on the last setting, no other change!.
How long did they have it for?, did they fix any issues?

Yes i know that Louis mate what i meant when i said it doesn't work i mean nothing comes on the screen at all the EDFC wouldn't have been touched anyway.

The car hasn't been started at all I know this for a fact because the whole time it was at GR-Performance the keys have been above my head in my bedroom so driving it into a kerb is out of acquisition.

I have no idea how the damage occurred buddy my mates broght the car back from the garage winched onto the flatback so i know & trust my mates wouldn't have damaged it & if they had they would have told me about it.

I'm waiting to hear back fr GR as over the weekend nobody has access to read the email i sent them,like i said my mates wouldn't have damaged the car so i'll let you know what gets said tomorrow. An no work has been done to car the whole time its been there so false hopes again they had it long enough to tell me they couldn't do anything with it!

[Nick Mann]

The edfc controller might have lost power. You will need to check the connection on the back of the unit. To turn on I think you need to hold down the power button rather than just press it but I can't remember, mine is always left on.
I agree with the above edfc and car suddenly being lower are unlikely to be connected It may be best to ask a friend to have a good look under the wheel arch to see if they can see what is broken.

[Pugme]

Nah man, my coilovers came with the car and I've owned the car 7 years now

Something has definitely happened for both fronts to collapse

And the car has been polybushed to the hilt for the past 2-3 years

[orionn2o]

I think some pics under the bonnet might be useful along with some under the arches. Have both sides gone or just one? Its not very clear. Also are you saying the dent is associated with the suspension??? Or is that just an additional thing? If a car garage has given you back a car thats dented then you should really be calling them up!

[swinks]

Agreed with above posted. EDFC can be simply not operational due to damage, malfunction of dampers itself (slightly bent rods etc). How d'you know that coilovers/dampers/springs are all OK. Judgeing from photos something is seriously not right and it didn't happen itself. Some heavy impact could happen (my money on... car failing down from ramp or lift, violent drag up flat bed towcar/inappropriate tow point choosen damaging lower suspension, etc.). What I'm trying to say is, that coilovers don't fail that way without 3rd party involved.
There could be several issues, but lower straight arms would be my 1st call and suspension around (hub carriers, subframe, arms etc). If everything OK, then next are coilovers to inspect.

[Pugme]

Leading on from what Tomasz just said (which is good thinking) they didn't have your keys!! So the steering lock has been on the whole time, hand brake not released, car left in Park??

I'm not surprised your cars come back all ****ed up, why did they not have the keys? How was you expecting them to move it around let alone work on it without the keys?

[Louis]

Did your mates have the keys to get the car onto the transporter to take it there or to collect the car with the transporter?
I'm surprised your first thought is to look for new coil overs before even looking or finding out from the garage what they have to say!.
Also, if the garage didn't have the keys how can they be to blame for anything?.
The photo looks like something has hit the front corner, there is a mark on the bumper in line with the bump!, the bumper would pop back out after hit so would look like photo.
There are too many questions here, before the " I need new teins " question!!!!!

[coney]

The edfc controller might have lost power. You will need to check the connection on the back of the unit. To turn on I think you need to hold down the power button rather than just press it but I can't remember, mine is always left on.
I agree with the above edfc and car suddenly being lower are unlikely to be connected It may be best to ask a friend to have a good look under the wheel arch to see if they can see what is broken.

There was a set of keys with the car it was a genuine mistake on my part both keys are identical so apologies for my f***up!

I know the EDFC does have any effect on the ride hight it simply hardens & softens the suspension electronically

Nick my mate has tried everything everybody has said with the EDFC but still will not turn on nothing no power to it at all. I've emailed the garage who had it before & they confirmed nothing was touched!

[coney]

Nah man, my coilovers came with the car and I've owned the car 7 years now

Something has definitely happened for both fronts to collapse

And the car has been polybushed to the hilt for the past 2-3 years
I don't know what has happened its not collapsed anther genuine mistake but is definitely lower than when i got it back in june or july last year!

[coney]

I think some pics under the bonnet might be useful along with some under the arches. Have both sides gone or just one? Its not very clear. Also are you saying the dent is associated with the suspension??? Or is that just an additional thing? If a car garage has given you back a car thats dented then you should really be calling them up!

The suspension hasn't collapsed its just got lower since it was delivered in june july again a genuine mistake apologies.

[coney]

Agreed with above posted. EDFC can be simply not operational due to damage, malfunction of dampers itself (slightly bent rods etc). How d'you know that coilovers/dampers/springs are all OK. Judgeing from photos something is seriously not right and it didn't happen itself. Some heavy impact could happen (my money on... car failing down from ramp or lift, violent drag up flat bed towcar/inappropriate tow point choosen damaging lower suspension, etc.). What I'm trying to say is, that coilovers don't fail that way without 3rd party involved.
There could be several issues, but lower straight arms would be my 1st call and suspension around (hub carriers, subframe, arms etc). If everything OK, then next are coilovers to inspect.
It was my mates flatback & my best mate that took it & brought it back i trust them a 100% if they had done something they would have held there hands up straight away and paid for it.

[coney]

Leading on from what Tomasz just said (which is good thinking) they didn't have your keys!! So the steering lock has been on the whole time, hand brake not released, car left in Park??

I'm not surprised your cars come back all ****ed up, why did they not have the keys? How was you expecting them to move it around let alone work on it without the keys?

Like i said above they did have one set of keys the ones i was looking at were the spares which are identical so apologies again

[coney]

Did your mates have the keys to get the car onto the transporter to take it there or to collect the car with the transporter?
I'm surprised your first thought is to look for new coil overs before even looking or finding out from the garage what they have to say!.
Also, if the garage didn't have the keys how can they be to blame for anything?.
The photo looks like something has hit the front corner, there is a mark on the bumper in line with the bump!, the bumper would pop back out after hit so would look like photo.
There are too many questions here, before the " I need new teins " question!!!!!
Right i'm no expert unlike everybody else on here & haven't had hands on experience because my hands don't work same as my,arms,shoulders,stomach muscles,legs basically every part of my body apart from my neck mouth,tongue,eyes & brain .

They did have a set of keys the ones i was looking at were the spares which are identical to the others so apologies again.

[coney]

If i've made duplicates its cause i'm in a mad rush.
Right the car got delivered to Eurospec on tuesday the 8th they very cleverly & caring took pictures of the bloke who transported the car to Eurospec & was an absolute godsend! case the thick c*** didn't lower the back down enough & this happened the useless b**t*** did this!

When he came to collect it my mate had to tell him to lower it & pull the extenders down otherwise he would have made an even bigger *uc*up!

He has had the decency to pay for the damage but i always think if there wasn't any evidence would he have actually owned up to it?


Btw i have a few Genuine Bosch 044 intank fuel pumps for sale if anybody can use them & all the major brand injectors from 300cc right upto 2200cc

[Nick Mann]

Top notch, Eurospec are. They will do their best to look after you.

[Grid]

coney Good to hear that things are getting sorted out.

[coney]

Top notch, Eurospec are. They will do their best to look after you.

Nick i'm not a religious type of person but i'm praying they will be able to sort it out without bankruptcy i'm close as it mate.

Will they check all the electronics as there's wires hung down everywhere just above the footwell & the oil temperature gauge flickers everywhere when the car is moving. For example we always sit & wait for the oil temperature to get to 50 degrees but when driving it could go from 56 degrees then just to 20 degrees. d you know what i mean?


Cheers Nick

[coney]

coney Good to hear that things are getting sorted out.

It is mate the only thing thats giving me butterflies in the stomach is how much the final bill will be.

Cheers Tomasz

[Nick Mann]

Nick i'm not a religious type of person but i'm praying they will be able to sort it out without bankruptcy i'm close as it mate.

Will they check all the electronics as there's wires hung down everywhere just above the footwell & the oil temperature gauge flickers everywhere when the car is moving. For example we always sit & wait for the oil temperature to get to 50 degrees but when driving it could go from 56 degrees then just to 20 degrees. d you know what i mean?


Cheers Nick

They are a business who specialise in servicing and tuning Japanese cars. They will do almost anything I would have thought but they are a business.....

[coney]

Will they check the dials & messy wiring hung down from under the steering wheel automatically or should i mention it to them?

[Nick Mann]

I would mention anything you want checking or doing. They effectively need you to ask them to do the job otherwise where do they stand when they charge you a couple of hours labour for something that you didn't want them to do?

[Davezj]

In a situation like this, be up front and honest with the people you are wanting to do work on you car, for me th is is the best policy and put it in writing/email exactly what you are want to get done. Then they can give you an honest opinion of what it is going to cost.
I would strongly recommend you talk to them about the budget for the job first before you start getting any work done. Then you both know you are at least on the same page in the hymn book.

From my experience, the worst case scenario is fixing some else's work. It is good of them to agree to take the project on. They will have to do a lot of investigation work to find out what is wrong with the car before they can even start to fix the issues you are having.

They have a very good reputation for the work they carry out and you are in good hands.

Make sure you keep in contact with them and keep track of the money spend then there is no surprise at the end when you get the bill.

[orionn2o]

I'll echo what the guys have said above, I've put my car into Eurospec a few times and the job has always been top notch.

However like any business, you do need to be clear what you want them to do, or you could end up with a bill larger than you expect! Debugging and diagnostics can be time consuming!

[Louis]

I think that car has been to aerospace before!, I remember a thread where the TD04's were fitted and aerospace tuned it. If I remember correctly the owner asked for about 450bhp which they managed but said it may not be reliable, but owner was ok with that as he was testing!. since then it has changed quite a bit, but, I am sure Ben had tuned it before in some guise with the TD04's on!, anyone else remember??

[coney]

In a situation like this, be up front and honest with the people you are wanting to do work on you car, for me th is is the best policy and put it in writing/email exactly what you are want to get done. Then they can give you an honest opinion of what it is going to cost.
I would strongly recommend you talk to them about the budget for the job first before you start getting any work done. Then you both know you are at least on the same page in the hymn book.

From my experience, the worst case scenario is fixing some else's work. It is good of them to agree to take the project on. They will have to do a lot of investigation work to find out what is wrong with the car before they can even start to fix the issues you are having.

They have a very good reputation for the work they carry out and you are in good hands.

Make sure you keep in contact with them and keep track of the money spend then there is no surprise at the end when you get the bill.

I always am Dave when there's money floating about above £20,000, i never lie to anybody when it comes to anything like this, obviously everybody tells little white lies & if they say they don't then there full of sh*t & lieing themselves!

[coney]

I think that car has been to aerospace before!, I remember a thread where the TD04's were fitted and aerospace tuned it. If I remember correctly the owner asked for about 450bhp which they managed but said it may not be reliable, but owner was ok with that as he was testing!. since then it has changed quite a bit, but, I am sure Ben had tuned it before in some guise with the TD04's on!, anyone else remember??

Louis you think my car has been to aerospace before? i it is my car your wrong mate the only place my car has been is up north where gareth lives & hertfordshire well to my knowledge anyway,

it seems to have racked up quite a few thousand more miles though.

[coney]

Right i've had some good news today & somethings i aleady knew about non of which was done by myself or family & friends.

I've told Ceri & Ben at Eurospec what parts need to be looked at that has been either overlooked,just short cuts or just what looks like lazy work.

I have already had an email from them today.

1. Some of the mapping could be smoother
2. Cold start needs setting up properly
3. Radiator fan is to small (if i'm not wrong there should be 2 on that but don't quote me on it)
4. EDFC hasn't been looked at yet but they feel its a bit of a gimmick, but for me if it says what it does it would be beneficial as some of the days driving we go on spine shattering.
5. The various wires hanging down in the footwell have noticed the multiple boost tables dont work, so we assume its the wiring for those.

Just curious how much a new set of springs & dampers cost between the range & what differences are there? i could read all the information about them but still wouldn't be any wiser i need it in Layman's terms.

Does that make me thick as pig sh*t to some people probably.

But its looking promising!

[Pugme]

Going back to one of the old threads didn't Gareth say it needed the mapping sorted?

I only vaguely read it because I'm not into power, but was an entertaining read none the less.

Sounds so far to be not much wrong with it tho which is good news

Also springs and dampers? Is this instead of coilovers?

[Paul C]

This thread is mental........other than that did the car ever run right after all the rebuild work and tuning add-ons.

[Louis]

I meant eurospec, ( not aerospace), predictive text mess up !!.
If I recall, gowf had a car with td04's on it mapped at eurospec, and they got about 450 out of it but that was the extreme limit!. Could be a different car or a different engine, but it was a car with tdo4's ( can't remember if it was 10t or 13t or 19t 's

[Louis]

Check post 27 and 29, in this thread, this could have been a previous incarnation of the same engine or car?.
If you search for owner and eurospec there are a few threads.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?41312-FS-1997-Mitsubishi-Legnum-VR4-(White)-Herts/page2&highlight=Td04

Main thing is they have it now and can tune vipec, so hopefully nice cold start and others bits are tweeted it should be better.
Personally though, once you get to this level of tune and spec, you need to keep on top of things as smaller differences and changes have bigger effects on the running. So it is acrobats the tweeking thang!, if you want a reliable 340 BHP plus as a daily drove, I would be looking at evo's for a bit more reliability.

[coney]

Going back to one of the old threads didn't Gareth say it needed the mapping sorted?

I only vaguely read it because I'm not into power, but was an entertaining read none the less.

Sounds so far to be not much wrong with it tho which is good news

Also springs and dampers? Is this instead of coilovers?

Gareth said once i've put a 1000 or so miles on the clock then it would need a remapp but from it being built & dropped off on a flatback it got took out once & the very first time it did get took out it over heated after 5 miles at the very max after that it was taken to GR-Performance & overheated more than several times so around 30 miles if that.

[coney]

This thread is mental........other than that did the car ever run right after all the rebuild work and tuning add-ons.

Do you mean from the time i received it? No it never run correctly once but thats in the past now where i would like it to stay if thats ok with everybody?

[coney]

I meant eurospec, ( not aerospace), predictive text mess up !!.
If I recall, gowf had a car with td04's on it mapped at eurospec, and they got about 450 out of it but that was the extreme limit!. Could be a different car or a different engine, but it was a car with tdo4's ( can't remember if it was 10t or 13t or 19t 's

That was his own white legnum louis, he did do the first lot of upgrades on my car standard turbo's & was putting 310hp 350nmt

[coney]

Check post 27 and 29, in this thread, this could have been a previous incarnation of the same engine or car?.
If you search for owner and eurospec there are a few threads.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?41312-FS-1997-Mitsubishi-Legnum-VR4-(White)-Herts/page2&highlight=Td04

Main thing is they have it now and can tune vipec, so hopefully nice cold start and others bits are tweeted it should be better.
Personally though, once you get to this level of tune and spec, you need to keep on top of things as smaller differences and changes have bigger effects on the running. So it is acrobats the tweeking thang!, if you want a reliable 340 BHP plus as a daily drove, I would be looking at evo's for a bit more reliability.

I need to check my engine numbers to make sure it is my own engine & not the one Louis was talking about

[Nick Mann]

Gareths td04s ended up in someone else's car.

[Paul C]

The only reason I asked is that it's a starting point.



Moving on....we all know the car shouldn't overheat. It over heats when moving so that should rule out the radiator fan.

What we left with...
Air lock in coolant system, blockage, faulty thermostat.
Poor map?
Head gasket issues.
Blocked oil ports?
Miss match of parts?

All just guess work on here.
Difficult to determine especially as it's never ran right.

Euro spec will know as has been said before they more than no their way around mitsubishi engines.

You may end up with less power and more reliability

[Paul C]

Re: Gowfs td04

That must have been about 10 yr ago.

[coney]

I need to check my engine numbers to make sure it is my own engine & not the one Louis was talking about

Definitely not mine then Nick?

[coney]

The only reason I asked is that it's a starting point.



Moving on....we all know the car shouldn't overheat. It over heats when moving so that should rule out the radiator fan.

What we left with...
Air lock in coolant system, blockage, faulty thermostat.
Poor map?
Head gasket issues.
Blocked oil ports?
Miss match of parts?

All just guess work on here.
Difficult to determine especially as it's never ran right.

Euro spec will know as has been said before they more than no their way around mitsubishi engines.

You may end up with less power and more reliability

I have already mentioned the fan isn't big enough well to be fair if i remember correctly it should have 2 fans installed but the front turbo is to close to the intercooler, yu can see it better on this picture. Its a tad blurry but you get the general idea.

No coolant Air lock,blockage or faulty thermostat as far as i'm aware but ben hasn't delved into that yet.

As mentioned before there's a couple of spots on the mapping that could be smother.

Cold start needs setting up properly.

There are various wires hanging down in the footwell, we have not looked at this but we notice the multiple boost tables don't work.

[jaspa]

What Paul is saying is that the fan does nothing to cool the car engine while you are travelling forwards. If it is still overheating when not stationary then it will be something other than just having one fan.

Stuart

[Paul C]

Looks a nice project. I wonder if the front manifold is too close to radiator.

[coney]

What Paul is saying is that the fan does nothing to cool the car engine while you are travelling forwards. If it is still overheating when not stationary then it will be something other than just having one fan.

Stuart

I know the fan doesn't have any effect on cooling when the car is going forward,

I'm not just pulling random words & ideas of what could be wrong, What i've i've written is exactly what Ben from Eurospec sent me!

[Paul C]

Coney you seem like an angry person.

[chris g]

Coney you seem like an angry person.

Guess you have not caught up on the background to this current situation...

[Paul C]

Guess you have not caught up on the background to this current situation...
I don't think I will catch up on that side of things. Just hereto try and help.

[Nick Mann]

I don't fully agree with the removal of the fan from the possible causes list. If there was plenty of space in the engine bay and the radiator wasn't hidden behind an intercooler and an air conditioning rad then maybe but I am unconvinced that driving completely negates the need for fans. What speed do stock fans blow air at?

[coney]

I don't fully agree with the removal of the fan from the possible causes list. If there was plenty of space in the engine bay and the radiator wasn't hidden behind an intercooler and an air conditioning rad then maybe but I am unconvinced that driving completely negates the need for fans. What speed do stock fans blow air at?

Nick i'm confused about what your saying, sorry buddy i need to get a brain that actually works!

Can somebody explain the various turbo housing & numbers ect? no matter how much i read i still can't absorb the information.

This is a classic example! A KKK K26 for my 96'Audi S2 what do the TD03 or TD04 mean? or the AR.50 housing, V Band ect?

[apeman69]

Neal, when your car is sorted it will be on the bleeding edge of what is possible with this engine (I think you've got GT2560R turbos Iirc). Please make sure that the tuning is done using the highest octane fuel you can buy yourself locally or whatever fuel you intend to use all the time. E.g. don't have it tuned for 99 octane fuel if all you can get at home is 95 or 97. Sorry if this sounds patronising but once you're at the edge of maximum performance a small oversight like this can make a difference. Poor fuel isn't good for a beast like yours unless it has been tuned for use with poor fuel.
Glad to see that Ben's got his hands on it now :)

[apeman69]

Jeeezzzz, I think you've got GT2871s according to the other thread....... 400hp each!!!!!

[coney]

Neal, when your car is sorted it will be on the bleeding edge of what is possible with this engine (I think you've got GT2560R turbos Iirc). Please make sure that the tuning is done using the highest octane fuel you can buy yourself locally or whatever fuel you intend to use all the time. E.g. don't have it tuned for 99 octane fuel if all you can get at home is 95 or 97. Sorry if this sounds patronising but once you're at the edge of maximum performance a small oversight like this can make a difference. Poor fuel isn't good for a beast like yours unless it has been tuned for use with poor fuel.
Glad to see that Ben's got his hands on it now :)

Alan its got 2 GT2871R 500hp each turbo & was tuned on SHELL V POWER before thats all its ever had for the past 3 years maybe 4.

[apeman69]

Good to know :)

[Gowf]

The turbos are gt2871's with steel cage bearings. Good for around 450 each. The fan was the largest that fits in the space. Its not your original engine as you well know, as that one is still in Scotland sitting on an engine stand. The engine in the car was originally my old block, but was destroyed on the first build along with pistons, rods and crank due to grit left bathe powder coating matey. So everything g else was fresh and supplied by me, rather than stripping your engine. All of this is knowledge you have. The map switch is drivers side and was working when dropped off. So who ever has driven it has caught them and pulled them off the switch, only thing that could be hanging down there. You were also told that theap wasn't finished and after running it at 550bhp for a while to have it looked at. It did 1000miles with me between running it in and driving it from Lossiemouth to Basildon, with no overheating issues, or issues whatsoever. Those are the true facts neal which you already know.

[Paul C]

Any updates from eurospec.?

[Pugme]

Maybe it doesn't like being in England? Too warm in general down here lol

[coney]

This is really starting to get to me i've got enough going on in my private life with incompetent care from district nurses who caused a sore at the top inside right leg which is why i was in hospital last year for 4 months while been fed information from somebody building an engine!

I've got the same fu**ing sh*t happening again with the added bonus of losing my personal carers so i'm on the verge of a breakdown, i thought to myself i'll give it one more shot of a civilized conversation with some good honest helpful folk but yet again i'm been brought down & made out to be a liar! wel you've done it this time.

Sorry everybody if anybody wants to get in contact with my email address is cannabin0l@yahoo.co.uk i won't be posting on here again or visiting.

Best of luck to everybody & hope you all have some great times with your cars mine might be up for sale once its been finished as i don't want any reminders of this whole fiasco.

[Nick Mann]

Neal, Gowfs post was helpful there was it not? It clarified some points that you seemed unsure of. I think we all realise that you have stuff to deal with that the rest of us don't, so it is fully understandable that you are hazy on some of the stuff that Gowf has told you in the past.
Any info is good info at the moment so you can pass on the info about the wiring for the map switch to Eurospec and everyone is a winner!

[Pugme]

You'd probably be better off asking Gareth to call eurospec or vice versa.

Would probably save you hundreds of pounds in wasted hours.

[coney]

Right this will be the very last time i post till the car is running like it should without fear of overheating & everything else working properly.

The fan cannot be the biggest from the following quote from Ben unless there's something new out on the market from last year which then would be fully understandable.

Having said that wasn't there meant to be 2 fans or have i got mixed up with my other car?

Nobody said the Map switch wasn't working/duh, I said the EDFC wasn't working, also tried all the things mentioned by the members but still wouldn't work! & from what Ben said in his email isn't work having but thats Bens opinion.

The wires hung down WAS NOT CAUSED BY ANYBODY At THIS END! its just about impossible!/bat

If Gowf wants to ring Ben thats entrety up to him.:eurospec:

[coney]

What Eurospec have updated me with last week.

[Confused]

I'm not sure who took those photos, and what they're supposed to show, but from what I can tell, there's only a single extra wire there (a thicker, red one), which looks like it could be a feed to a rear fog light, or something similar.

I'm struggling to see anything other than standard wires, in their standard places.

If you want to see a mess of wires above the driver's feet, I'll show you a photo of mine! However, none of them ever get tangled up in my feet.


I'm not saying that there's not additional wires, but (without comparing side to side with mine) I can't see anything majorly wrong, there.

Of course, if the photos weren't a blurry mess, with someone's finger covering half the lens and flash, we might be able to see something out of place!

I've got probably the worst possible fan on my Anglia, and unless I'm sat idling for 20 minutes, the temperature only then creeps up towards 110 degrees.

The standard ECU (which still controls my fan) only runs the fan at full speed when it gets up to this kind of temperature!

A standard dash gauge on a VR-4 doesn't start moving above normal until about 115 degrees, and it can also read wildly wrong if the sensor is beginning to fail - which can and does happen on a car of this kind of age.

I would change the temperature senders for new units - or, preferably, given the hightened state of tune of yours, disconnect the original gauge in the dash and have an aftermarket coolant temperature gauge with a brand new, calibrated sensor, and then you'll see exactly what the coolant temperatures are.


However, Neal, can I please offer one bit of friendly advice...

When you have something to write here regarding this thread, do the following.

Write it down.
Take a break for 15 minutes.
Come back, and re-read what you've written.
Amend it if necessary.

Most of your posts in this thread are ranting. I understand you are frustrated. But you want (and deserve) answers, and helpful advice. The tone of your posts comes across badly sometimes, and I'm sure some people have avoided answering due to this. I know I have been guilty of this on occasions (not necessarily here) where I read something, see that other people's posts have been taken in a bad way by the thread starter, and I've decided "nope, not getting involved with that!".

I don't mean this in a bad way (but you can never tell how things, especially written text) will be interpreted, but remove your emotions from your posts, and you'll end up with a better, more conclusive, and less stressful result.


I've also written entire posts on forums before, come back 10 minutes to review before submitting, and deleted the whole lot. Sometimes just writing it down, even if you subsequently delete it, can be very therapeutic, and can help you write a better post later.

With the help of us, and EuroSpec, we'll get you there, and you'll have a fantastic car at the end of it that you can enjoy, and this whole shenanigans will be but a distant memory :)

[orionn2o]

It sounds like your car is only a few issues away from being awesome!

The radiator is a tough one because if you cant fit a bigger one, then it'll be difficult to find a better solution. I think one thing that is clear is that this car is never going to be your daily driver to the shops type car.

If Eurospec are going to adjust the mapping for you, it should be a slightly different beast once they have done that bit, which I think you said Gowf told you would need doing anyway. So if it gets done now thats a good thing. As Garry says above its clear that you're very frustrated by this car and the problems, but lots of people here are willing to offer advise. So try to step back from the emotions. /toycar

[giblet]

I'll second what Garry wrote. This is the most friendly and helpful forum and community that I've seen.

[coney]

It sounds like your car is only a few issues away from being awesome!

The radiator is a tough one because if you cant fit a bigger one, then it'll be difficult to find a better solution. I think one thing that is clear is that this car is never going to be your daily driver to the shops type car.

If Eurospec are going to adjust the mapping for you, it should be a slightly different beast once they have done that bit, which I think you said Gowf told you would need doing anyway. So if it gets done now thats a good thing. As Garry says above its clear that you're very frustrated by this car and the problems, but lots of people here are willing to offer advise. So try to step back from the emotions. /toycar

Hopefully Matt it will be buddy its been a long bumpy road but it should be worth it.

I don't think it's the radiator its the fan thats not big enough or there should be 2 but only one could be fitted, wouldn't relocating the turbo be an option in the very worst case scenario?

Gowf did say it would need mapping again but wasn't anything to do with the overheating issues.

Matt its easier said than done when it feels like me against the world type thing,i think the best thing i can do when it comes to these situations where i feel like having somebody hunted down & murdered is just to completely ignore the comment i've done it already wrote a massive long reply out completely flipping my lid then just thought no why should i flip just because somebody doesn't know the half of it.

This past year of things going wrong with the car out of my control & stopping smoking has turned me into a wild animal without restraints.

[coney]

One thing i will say is i have no idea where i stand with the maximum amount of power these turbo's will give out, ben at Eurospec said there's no way they will give 700hp which is what we were aiming for but there rated at 450hp the maths add up but knowing this car it could fall short of that.

What about going bigger turbo's? what would be the maximum potential of these engines be?

[Davezj]

Have a look at some of zantac's old threads, I think he has pushed the 6a13tt as far as anyone else has in the UK. I think he got about 650hp before giving up and going down the 4g63 engine route and last time I heard he was pushing about 1000hp in his FTO and doing sub 9 sec 1/4 to have the quickest front wheel drive car in the country.

I know Adam Findlay in NZ has done a lot of work with these engines but it has all seemed to go very quiet on that front. However he and his other southern hemisphere friends are a lot more active on OZVR4, so get yourself over there and get a login and check out the posts they make interesting reading, but Adam has gone down the larger single turbo route.

Hope you find this helpful.

[coney]

I've spoken to zentac's before he lives about 15-29 minutes away, thas just reminded me he messaged me months ago about storage place for legnum shi*. I'm sure at one point he had the quickest fwd cars in england don't quote me on that though.

Adam Findlay why does that name ring a bell? if these GT2871S turbo's don't produce the 700hp i might be looking for alternatives but what options are there what aren't massive in dimensions but will give me that extra couple of hundred ponies? Where's the cheapest place to get the turbo's these days?

I'll get myself on to OZVR4 see what's happening down under.

Yes mate very helpful thanks!

Cheers Dave

[Davezj]

yes i meant Zentac, where did i get zantac from.

ah yes,
What is Zantac?
Zantac (ranitidine) belongs to a group of drugs called histamine-2 blockers. Zantac works by reducing the amount of acid your stomach produces.
Zantac is used to treat and prevent ulcers in the stomach and intestines. It also treats conditions in which the stomach produces too much acid, such as Zollinger-Ellison syndrome. Zantac also treats gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and other conditions in which acid backs up from the stomach into the esophagus, causing heartburn.

LOL.

[Paul C]

Wtf has this post turned into

[Paul C]

Lets guess the answer?

[coney]

Wtf has this post turned into

What do you mean paul?

[coney]

better

[Louis]

Why would you want a fuel pump?

[coney]

better

[Louis]

It kind of side tracks your thread! If it's not to do with the title or the problem!

[coney]

I'm so confused about the power capabilities of these turbo's One things yes they will produce the 700hp another saying they won't /wall/wall/Grrr:huh2::huh2::huh2:

[chris g]

One thing i will say is i have no idea where i stand with the maximum amount of power these turbo's will give out, ben at Eurospec said there's no way they will give 700hp which is what we were aiming for but there rated at 450hp the maths add up but knowing this car it could fall short of that.

What about going bigger turbo's? what would be the maximum potential of these engines be?

Getting confused about this thread...

You are upset about what has happened with your car/engine...

Some strong reaction to other posts and you just want to get it sorted and working...

You have put a fortune into it and cannot afford large expense of it being transported plus expense of it being sorted...

And now you are banging on about what turbos can produce x amount of power and the max potential of the engine...

Do you want the car sorted or want to do even more to it...?

[Nick Mann]

Gowf had it mapped to 550 with more to come as I remember? Get the rads sorted and then see what Eurospec can add through mapping. Get this incarnation running properly before you start again! It is already so close to awesome!

[coney]

Yes i'm upset about whats happened to the car about everything look at the date on the 2nd picture nearly 2 years then still having to pay out & wanting for it to get it sorted.

If you knew the full story from my point of it you would know why some posts were strong reactions!

I'm banging on as you put it about! what the maximum potential of the turbo's that are in it now, due to only been out in once & that very same time it broke down so i never even felt what the full power of it was like, tht & the fact that Gowf said there around 450hp each but a good point Gowf said only put load onto 80% of the turbo's capacity if i remember correctly which theoretically would be 720hp around about.

The only other things i do want changing is the BOV,Exhaust & Boost gauge but they can get done when the car goes back to GR-Performance to get the dint out they made.

Where abouts in yorkshire you from Chris? ony reason i'm asking is because i was talking to somebody on facebook who wanted to buy the 3inch downpipes that will be going on ebay.

[coney]

Gowf had it mapped to 550 with more to come as I remember? Get the rads sorted and then see what Eurospec can add through mapping. Get this incarnation running properly before you start again! It is already so close to awesome!

Thats my exact plans Nick, i'm not sure if i want to add anymore power depending on what Eurospec can do with it definitely not this half of the year anyway i've still got my Golf in the garage that needs sorting out desperately its been sat in the garage for about the past 10 years i can almost hear it sobbing to itself at night lol.

[chris g]

Yes i'm upset about whats happened to the car about everything look at the date on the 2nd picture nearly 2 years then still having to pay out & wanting for it to get it sorted.

If you knew the full story from my point of it you would know why some posts were strong reactions!

I'm banging on as you put it about! what the maximum potential of the turbo's that are in it now, due to only been out in once & that very same time it broke down so i never even felt what the full power of it was like, tht & the fact that Gowf said there around 450hp each but a good point Gowf said only put load onto 80% of the turbo's capacity if i remember correctly which theoretically would be 720hp around about.

The only other things i do want changing is the BOV,Exhaust & Boost gauge but they can get done when the car goes back to GR-Performance to get the dint out they made.

Where abouts in yorkshire you from Chris? ony reason i'm asking is because i was talking to somebody on facebook who wanted to buy the 3inch downpipes that will be going on ebay.

Not me as do not have VR-4 or likely plans to get one...

And I do not do facebook...

[coney]

ok fair enough!!!

[coney]

Wanting changes but been was persuaded not to

[Pugme]

Sard r2d2

It's just bolt on bolt off

[Davezj]

I am not having go at anyone Just thought I would mention this from a forum point of view , You are probably better of starting a new thread when going off topic. Just so this thread does not get mashed into an In coherent 20 pager with no conclusion and no useful information.
I think we are all interested in seeing the outcome up your project and wish you well in getting it finished in a timely and cost effective way.


Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[coney]

I am not having go at anyone Just thought I would mention this from a forum point of view , You are probably better of starting a new thread when going off topic. Just so this thread does not get mashed into an In coherent 20 pager with no conclusion and no useful information.
I think we are all interested in seeing the outcome up your project and wish you well in getting it finished in a timely and cost effective way.


Sent from my space-aged gizmo
I haven't got time to be going back & forth to 2 different threads thats the only reason.

[Louis]

I haven't got the time to be of any help when I have to read though Lots of other irrelevant info lol!
:)

[chris g]

I'm wanting to change the bov to something that is alot louder with a different sound inside of the whooshing noise i'm getting from the one installed alread.

So a couple of questions

1. Is there alot of messing about changing & setting it up?

2. What are my oppositions? the HKS SSQ 4 has different sound are there any others?

So again the car is not sorted yet, may cost a sum that imits future options perhaps even of ownership with need to sell...

And here we are getting into questions about further modifications...

[Davezj]

personally from my point of view if i was getting a VR4 with 700hp i would be expecting it to break something every time i went out in it. It will never be a reliable car. just because you can get 700hp out of the engine does not mean the rest of the car will hold up to that sort of power, i know of some other car pushing 2/3 of that power breaking dive shafts and rear diffs transfer boxes and the like.
So reliable it will not likely be (channeling the star wars vibe).
This is assuming the engine holds together for more than 1000 miles to allow the rest of the drive train to fall apart.

i would prefer a car that is drivable every time i want to go out in it and be happy with 400hp and a bit rather than have an undrivable car on the roads and a trailored dyno queen that breaks something every time the accelerator is pushed to the floor.

i would let eurospec do there thing as they are very good at there thing and they will give you the best they can for the money that is being willingly spent.
once it is known what the car gives then think about upgrades.

i really hope everything goes ok ,and the car gets the power it deserves, but dont hold you breath and dont be disappointed by the final power figure, it will be up and running and you will be able to use it, enjoy it and love it.
then treat it to a few toys once you have got used to the car.

well that is what i would be looking for, but that is only my humble opinon and it carries bugger all weight round here.

[coney]

So again the car is not sorted yet, may cost a sum that imits future options perhaps even of ownership with need to sell...

And here we are getting into questions about further modifications...

Chris no the car isn't sorted yet i've emailed 5 or 6 times,phoned atleast 4 times with no reply from any. why would it cost a sum that limits future options even ownership with need to sell?:huh:

What is the problem with asking questions on the same thread? yes Questions Chris thats what these websites are all about well that's what i assumed but there seems to be a lot of unwritten rules i must have missed

[coney]

I give up honestly!

[giblet]

There are only a few simple rules that apply to pretty much any forum. Be polite and keep the thread on topic. This thread is related to your issues with the car not running right so it makes sense to stick to that and start another along the lines of 'Future Upgrades' where you can ask whatever questions you want relating to that.

At the end of the day CVR4 needs threads in the right place, much like any other forum. Stop "giving up" every time someone makes a valid point. Go take a breather, write down what you want to post offline first to make sure you stick to the topic etc and then post it.

As I (and a few others) have said before, CVR4 is one of the most helpful and friendliest forums out there. However if you keep getting annoyed and lashing out then you will piss everyone off to the point that no one will be arsed replying to your questions.

[chris g]

Chris no the car isn't sorted yet i've emailed 5 or 6 times,phoned atleast 4 times with no reply from any. why would it cost a sum that limits future options even ownership with need to sell?:huh:

What is the problem with asking questions on the same thread? yes Questions Chris thats what these websites are all about well that's what i assumed but there seems to be a lot of unwritten rules i must have missed

Because I thought that you prev stated that it may result in selling if it cost money to get the problem(s) sorted and emotionally you may be fed up with it going on without running as you expected...

And no there are not any unwritten rules that you missed, just that you focussed on what was wrong in this thread and wanted it sorted and whilst you wait to see if it can/will be sorted you have now moved on to raising possibility of more changes to the car that is not running...

[coney]

personally from my point of view if i was getting a VR4 with 700hp i would be expecting it to break something every time i went out in it. It will never be a reliable car. just because you can get 700hp out of the engine does not mean the rest of the car will hold up to that sort of power, i know of some other car pushing 2/3 of that power breaking dive shafts and rear diffs transfer boxes and the like.
So reliable it will not likely be (channeling the star wars vibe).
This is assuming the engine holds together for more than 1000 miles to allow the rest of the drive train to fall apart.

i would prefer a car that is drivable every time i want to go out in it and be happy with 400hp and a bit rather than have an undrivable car on the roads and a trailored dyno queen that breaks something every time the accelerator is pushed to the floor.

i would let eurospec do there thing as they are very good at there thing and they will give you the best they can for the money that is being willingly spent.
once it is known what the car gives then think about upgrades.

i really hope everything goes ok ,and the car gets the power it deserves, but dont hold you breath and dont be disappointed by the final power figure, it will be up and running and you will be able to use it, enjoy it and love it.
then treat it to a few toys once you have got used to the car.

well that is what i would be looking for, but that is only my humble opinon and it carries bugger all weight round here.

Its got an RS rear diff Gowf knows more about it than me, i've been told the standard manual box will hold up fine if anything else goes i'll cross that bridge when i come to it. It not going to be trashed to an inch of its life either. Deinitely not going to be taking it to the drag strip.
Time will tell.

What are prism rods like? there installed in the car already.

[coney]

personally from my point of view if i was getting a VR4 with 700hp i would be expecting it to break something every time i went out in it. It will never be a reliable car. just because you can get 700hp out of the engine does not mean the rest of the car will hold up to that sort of power, i know of some other car pushing 2/3 of that power breaking dive shafts and rear diffs transfer boxes and the like.
So reliable it will not likely be (channeling the star wars vibe).
This is assuming the engine holds together for more than 1000 miles to allow the rest of the drive train to fall apart.

i would prefer a car that is drivable every time i want to go out in it and be happy with 400hp and a bit rather than have an undrivable car on the roads and a trailored dyno queen that breaks something every time the accelerator is pushed to the floor.

i would let eurospec do there thing as they are very good at there thing and they will give you the best they can for the money that is being willingly spent.
once it is known what the car gives then think about upgrades.

i really hope everything goes ok ,and the car gets the power it deserves, but dont hold you breath and dont be disappointed by the final power figure, it will be up and running and you will be able to use it, enjoy it and love it.
then treat it to a few toys once you have got used to the car.

well that is what i would be looking for, but that is only my humble opinon and it carries bugger all weight round here.

Its got an RS rear diff Gowf knows more about it than me, i've been told the standard manual box will hold up fine if anything else goes i'll cross that bridge when i come to it. It not going to be trashed to an inch of its life either. Deinitely not going to be taking it to the drag strip.
Time will tell.

What are prism rods like? there installed in the car already.

[Davezj]

Yes time will tell.
And I hope it tells a great story with many, many, more chapters.
I just think if you reach to high to soon you will be disappointed at every turn.



Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[coney]

Yes time will tell.
And I hope it tells a great story with many, many, more chapters.
I just think if you reach to high to soon you will be disappointed at every turn.



Sent from my space-aged gizmo

Ok So here's where i'm at with Eurospec!

There's still some things that need testing but this is whats happening first

2 larger fans are being fitted
Oil cooler relocation lines are being sorted
Fan relay & wiring sorted out
Cold start issue is being sorted out
Power run to check mapping
Fitting new spark plugs

[Davezj]

Sound like a good way to proceed, looking forward to see the initial result and how it progresses.



Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[coney]

Sound like a good way to proceed, looking forward to see the initial result and how it progresses.




Sent from my space-aged gizmo

Yes Dave it is most definitely, its going on the Dyno for a power run & check the map.

There's one thing i haven't got a clue about mainly because i haven't driven a car for 18 years & even then it was only the old old vauxhall cavalier sri so not exactly the most powerful car in the world.

When chagning through the gears the car judders like mad, i don't know whether its the driver changing gear not used to the clutch or whether it's the mapping.

Anybody got any clues?

[chris g]

Yes Dave it is most definitely, its going on the Dyno for a power run & check the map.

There's one thing i haven't got a clue about mainly because i haven't driven a car for 18 years & even then it was only the old old vauxhall cavalier sri so not exactly the most powerful car in the world.

When chagning through the gears the car judders like mad, i don't know whether its the driver changing gear not used to the clutch or whether it's the mapping.

Anybody got any clues?

Presumably Eurospec are aware and can check this as they deal with various issues that you have prev mentioned and that they have identified...?

[Grid]

When chagning through the gears the car judders like mad, i don't know whether its the driver changing gear not used to the clutch or whether it's the mapping.

Anybody got any clues?

Possibly clutch related? Maybe you have a hard-as-rocks competition clutch to deal with the power?

[Davezj]

i would have thought when the engine was swapped the clutch would have been changed for a unit that could handle the projected power requirement it would have been stupid to leave a standard clutch in there as it would have slipped as soon as you put you foot down, the clutch would probably have been a ceramic puk clutch and they can be very grabby and jerky on gear changes when the driver is not used to that style of clutch and even were the drive is used to the clutch they can still be jerky as they are not designed to be very good at low speed low power driving, they can act like a switch and be off or on.

but that is the price you pay for having and managing all that power.


but you will have to confirm this with gareth to find out what clutch was fitted when the engine was fitted.
it should be list in the recipts that garath would probably have given you when the work was done, as it would have been one of the major cost items of the build along with the turbos.

[Nick Mann]

I doubt Gareth would have passed on receipts as you need them for your accounts. I'm sure that he would have sorted out a clutch though and hopefully given you a record of it.
There is a very good chance that the judder is a grabby clutch.

[swinks]

IIRC, it's been fitted triple plate Cusco or HKS one not sure. Seen this clutch laying around PSB garage. Excellent piece of kit.
And yes... you will get judder and other issues if you never used such clutches, completely different behaviour and feeling that stock one, so you need to learn how to balance throttle and clutch pedal. Not easy for a novice.

[coney]

Presumably Eurospec are aware and can check this as they deal with various issues that you have prev mentioned and that they have identified...?
Yes Chris i wrote a list out of things that didn't seem correct, i've got a feeling its nothing wrong its just how the clutch is but mentioned it anyway.

They haven't got back to me yet though.

[coney]

I doubt Gareth would have passed on receipts as you need them for your accounts. I'm sure that he would have sorted out a clutch though and hopefully given you a record of it.
There is a very good chance that the judder is a grabby clutch.

Ok i could understand if it was going through an Business as such but all the work was carried out in his spare time so why would it need to go to his accounts?

The clutch is off somebody on here Steve thats all i know same goes for £1700 diff which is shredded in the boot.

The clutch is a Competition Clutch Twin Plate i think Gareth said when he dropped the car off.

A few pictures of the Clutch & shagged Diff might help aye lol

[Pugme]

Business or not if he is self employed he would have to keep receipts, otherwise he may be up **** Creek when the tax man comes knocking at his door!

Obviously I don't know Gareth employment status, lol. But also there wouldn't be a receipt for a second hand part either.

So far tho doesn't seem like there's much wrong with the car that Gareth hadn't already mentioned in previous threads/posts so should be all good.

[coney]

Yes the tax man may knock but i've already got the social poking in my money situation asking why one minute i've got enough money to pay for my carers to come in shower,dress & get me into the wheelchair then the next i'm asking the social & local council to pay where does that leave me? culd be without care at all who knows!

How can he be self employed originally wasn't charging me labour as it was something he wanted to do for certain reasons. 90% of the parts used were brand new as far as i know.

Well the price is already £992 at Eurospec & still more needs to be done, Let look at this way Darren if you paid the amount i have for a car that should have been running perfectly then you have to pay another grand or more how would you be feeling?

There's one major advantage people on this website need to realize & appreciate that is If you or anybody else for that matter (And i'm not having a go i'm just putting a valid point across) had a project done like this you are able to jump in a car drive however many miles it is to check how things were going,getting the parts needed ect.

But Gareth has done a good job there's no denying that its just something that happened quicker than i think he realized.

[Nick Mann]

Maybe it is time to forget about how you got to this point and focus on the positive and the future. What progress has been made by Eurospec and what is their next step?

[coney]

It impossible to forget how i got to this & yes i'm trying to do just that but thinking about the next email i get off Eurospec is **** scary knowing there's no money left in the pot having to empty all the shrapnel thats been chucked in a jar its bound to be nerve racking specially when the only income is the Wa**k disability benefits.

After sleeping on it for a few nights talking to myself alot & once again i need to make a MASSIVE APOLOGY to everyone for going on one like a bull on meth!

I'm not using this as an excuse & never would but when i got runover just over 18 years ago my forehead hit where the windscreen joins the roof that damaged my frontal lobe.

I still only a few things about it myself things like decision making i'm shocking even if somebody said do you want tea or coffee i might say a tra please but when whoever brought the drinks in i might say to myself wtf made me choose tea.

2. Mood swings are my biggest downfall as you all have noticed 10 times over! i have some seriously bad ones & only takes the littlest thing to set me off but when i get to that stage i'm away with the fairies, i get a massive headache,heart starts beating out of my chest & can't focus on anything else bar what set me off in all seriousness though it's scary what i know now & if i could move say when i woke up tomorrow morning what would i do to somebody who said the just the wrong word to me?

Scitzo Springs to mind! lukily harsh words is my limit but even that isn't excusable.

Once again please except my apologies

[coney]

Friday the 13 is a true BITCH FOR BAD LUCK! Had news from Eurospec today which always seems to be bad news not there fault what so ever i have to say if it wasn't for them i would be most likely broke down on the way to a Club VR4 meet wanting to show the car off but as of yet haven't got past an hours worth of driving! i only i could turn back time how many other people wish they could?

Anyway they've done everything i asked them to which was a good call if i don't say so myself!

Here's what was said on the email

This build has been nothing short of suicidal tendencies for me, whoever said it might be a case of selling the car for whatever reasons i think your correct there & once the car is finished & running as it should have been it maybe the case of selling including my Audi S2 & VW Golf G60 then just maybe i might break even from just this Fu** up alone!

Sorry if i am the most negative poster in the club & in general but i have got genuine valid reason to be so i do apologize to all the readers of this post.

[Confused]

That to me sounds like good news?

You're getting nearly 500 horsepower on a map which you know isn't right yet - and they're asking your permission to tune it properly.

The wiring issues have been resolved.


OK, one minor point is a noise coming from the transmission, which they haven't tracked down yet. My bet would be either something like an engine mount, which is causing the engine/transmission to move slightly - and as things are modified and larger than stock, I bet it's something just touching on the chassis somewhere.


Overall, though - this is sounding like a positive outcome?

[Humpty's Revenge]

Friday the 13 is a true BITCH FOR BAD LUCK! Had news from Eurospec today which always seems to be bad news not there fault what so ever i have to say if it wasn't for them i would be most likely broke down on the way to a Club VR4 meet wanting to show the car off but as of yet haven't got past an hours worth of driving! i only i could turn back time how many other people wish they could?

Anyway they've done everything i asked them to which was a good call if i don't say so myself!

Here's what was said on the email

This build has been nothing short of suicidal tendencies for me, whoever said it might be a case of selling the car for whatever reasons i think your correct there & once the car is finished & running as it should have been it maybe the case of selling including my Audi S2 & VW Golf G60 then just maybe i might break even from just this Fu** up alone!

Sorry if i am the most negative poster in the club & in general but i have got genuine valid reason to be so i do apologize to all the readers of this post.

Neal I can't see what's wrong with that at all mate !

If that was me I would be on the phone straight away telling them to do it, if it's that close to running as it should how is that "AGAIN" bad news ?? :rolleyes3

Anyway you have something to look forward to "THAT WAS THE ONLY FRIDAY THE 13TH" this year

[Piers1989]

As above - This sounds like the light at the end of the tunnel!

[Pugme]

I'm the wrong guy to ask....

My bonnet cost more to have rehinged than your current bill at eurospec

And I've just spent three times your bill having a custom rear lip made for my legnum, due to one bodyshop ruining an 800 quid lip I had imported from the USA and a second bodyshop destroying the second one and now I've had one hand made over the top of the 2nd balls up....

As car modifiers, we keep going till its right or you take your tampon and go home :-)

[Louis]

I would also have said good news!.
Let him tune it and fix cold start issue and you have a usable 500bhp car.
Deal with the transmission when it becomes more obvious what it is.
What is the bad news? Compared to where you were at ?

[adaxo]

There's always bad news if you missing 200+ bhp of what you expected /been told it will happen

[coney]

That to me sounds like good news?

You're getting nearly 500 horsepower on a map which you know isn't right yet - and they're asking your permission to tune it properly.

The wiring issues have been resolved.


OK, one minor point is a noise coming from the transmission, which they haven't tracked down yet. My bet would be either something like an engine mount, which is causing the engine/transmission to move slightly - and as things are modified and larger than stock, I bet it's something just touching on the chassis somewhere.


Overall, though - this is sounding like a positive outcome?

Garry how can that be positive? maye due to you not paying for it, i'll tell you what i'll send you the bill & i'll roll over & laugh with you in so much positive vibes it will rain £50 notes.
Sorry if i'm being negative & pissed off once again but people just don't appreciate i haven't got money to burn i don't work & have to rely on stupid benefits.

I understand i haven't got a standard engine or car anymore & people say its always going to be plagued with problems but i also know & seen high performance cars that don't have problems for thousands of miles & nobody can tell me they don't exist i know they exist because there friends cars i speak of.

[coney]

There's always bad news if you missing 200+ bhp of what you expected /been told it will happen

I never expected or was told it would 100% definitely put out 700hp that was mine & Gows aim as we've spoke about in privacy.

[coney]

I'm done with all this website no wonder a mate of mine left the this place for exactly the same reasons i am!

I just wish each person who is basically saying i told you this that & the other could feel what i'm feeling right at this very moment.

For everybody else thats been understanding & supportive thankyou sincerely & if you want to contact me from now on just drop me an email at cannabin0l@yahoo.co.uk

[Pugme]

From the day I bought my legnum I thought I was.going to tune it up and get power.... It took me about a week of reading on here to realise that was never going to happen!

Did you not question why nothing was available off the shelf for this car? Did you not wonder why you don't often see vr4's gracing the cover of banzai? It genuinely seems, you bought the wrong car.

A friend of mine has a 1100bhp gtr but he has spent the equivalent of a small house on it, a guy on another club I own has a 1400bhp gtr (in Belgium) that build has cost £197,000 so far.

Did you do any research before starting down this path?

[giblet]

I'm done with all this website no wonder a mate of mine left the this place for exactly the same reasons i am!

I just wish each person who is basically saying i told you this that & the other could feel what i'm feeling right at this very moment.

For everybody else thats been understanding & supportive thankyou sincerely & if you want to contact me from now on just drop me an email at cannabin0l@yahoo.co.uk

With all due respect that's your loss. Out of the crapton of car forums I have spent time on over the years CVR4 is still the best in terms of advice and help.

Ultimately tuning a car past it's stock capabilities always throws up issues with reliability and when you consider the age of the VR4s now it's not surprising. Yes your build has been plagued with issues but there is finally light at the end of the tunnel. Plenty of members have posted helpful advice on this thread only to be met with angry replies by you. At some point you need to realise that it's not exactly fair to carry on like that.

All the best

[swinks]

Well, Neal, what I can say... good luck!
But with your attitude you going nowhere...

For start, quoted 480 HP from Eurospec sounds to me as wheel power. Ben rarely quotes flywheel figures, and used to put WHP in his dyno chart, only at customer request he calculate them later into fly figures. So, likely you have been quoted 480 WHP, which gives you rough 600 bhp at fly on doggy maps. If I'm right (hope I am), how can it be bad news??
If I'm wrong, still 480 HP on doggy base maps it's still a very good figure.
I've seen many big-hp builds on MLR forum. Bear in mind, parts for Evo builds are way cheaper than custom made for vr4. In the end each build took few years to complete, sorting maps itself takes months (dyno firts, then road and track fly mapping and smoothing). It's a very long process to achieve desired goal. And we talking about builds of tested inside-out vehicles (Evo). How, can it be easier with uncharted territory of vr4??
Also, each reliable big-hp Evo build has totally changed drivetrain (gearbox, transfer and rear diff). Reliable gearbox to sustain 600+ bhp costs minimum 3-4k build. Similar figures for transfer and diff each.
These were just examples.
Back to vr4... Yes, 700bhp figure is a good goal and in theory can be achieved with your Garretts, but that was just estimate not knowing of heads flow capability and characteristics, and many other factors. 6A13 dohc hasn't been tested nor measured by any pofessional tuning company (Buschur, HKS, Cosworth, Tomei, ETS, and few other), so any estimates are nothing else than hit and miss. Twin GT28 will get you to desired mark only with excellent engineered headwork and well designed ecu maps.
IMO, more realistic figure is 550 bhp for start, to begin with findings where power limitations are, and step by step removing them, which in fact is a long process and very costly.
Well, you picked up to heavy modify vr4... Wrong choice sir!

Your build has left only mapping sessions (quite few of them I'm sure), road map smoothing, and to find out which element of drivetrain failed or soon will fail. This is just cosmetic touch up IMO.

[Davezj]

I'm done with all this website no wonder a mate of mine left the this place for exactly the same reasons i am!

I just wish each person who is basically saying i told you this that & the other could feel what i'm feeling right at this very moment.

For everybody else thats been understanding & supportive thankyou sincerely & if you want to contact me from now on just drop me an email at cannabin0l@yahoo.co.uk

well i think this just about somes up this forum user.
usually im not confrontational and outspoken, but when someone comes onto the forum and just uses the experience and knowledge and friedship without contributing anything to the forum.
then turns round and slaggs off the people that are trying to help. that really annoyes me, because this is a great forum and privilege to be part of it.

just go and dont come back.



moderator can do what they like with this post, and if you think i am out of order, then ban me for whatever time you think is appropreiant for voicing my own opinion,
but needed to be said as this is a great forum, one of the best. and nobody has right to slag it off without getting told otherwise.

[Humpty's Revenge]

well i think this just about somes up this forum user.
usually im not confrontational and outspoken, but when someone comes onto the forum and just uses the experience and knowledge and friedship without contributing anything to the forum.
then turns round and slaggs off the people that are trying to help. that really annoyes me, because this is a great forum and privilege to be part of it.

just go and dont come back.



moderator can do what they like with this post, and if you think i am out of order, then ban me for whatever time you think is appropreiant for voicing my own opinion,
but needed to be said as this is a great forum, one of the best. and nobody has right to slag it off without getting told otherwise.

:iagree:

Dave you have said what a lot of us are thinking. As a moderator I have to be impartial as I am here for everything & everybody but I think Neal is just frustrated & is possibly taking out on other people just to vent his feelings

Neal's thread title includes the words "CLUELESS" & "HELP NEEDED" to which I feel he has received a huge amount of help "BUT" like others have now stated Neal is having a dig.

I am probably wrong but that is how Neal is coming across which is a real shame as there are some extremely genuine,knowledgeable & friendly members on here which said before goes a long way to beat especially from some other forums I see

Overall I hope you have a car to be proud of & I think most members would like to see the final outcome

Modifications do not come cheap unless you buy something that has already been built by someone else which is a great way to go in cost cutting but will never give you the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself or put your own hand in your wallet with your own money & paid for it to be built.

Either way it is you that have had the cost whether it was hands on or not !!

I wish you luck Neal & "I AM NOT HAVING A DIG" as what you have done to your vr4 is exactly what I was going to do to one of mine

[chris g]

I'm done with all this website no wonder a mate of mine left the this place for exactly the same reasons i am!

I just wish each person who is basically saying i told you this that & the other could feel what i'm feeling right at this very moment.

For everybody else thats been understanding & supportive thankyou sincerely & if you want to contact me from now on just drop me an email at cannabin0l@yahoo.co.uk

Well we tried to be helpful...

It's no wonder that you want to bugger off seeing as you have not really listened...

Maybe the best thing you could do to avoid unpleasantness...

And keep that mate of yours company who shares your reasons to bugger off...

And just at the moment when you may have been getting your care sorted...

Good luck with getting support and advice with ownership of your modified VR-4...

We will still be here supporting those who want to listen...

[Confused]

If you've not got money, then why the **** are you pissing about with modifying a car?

I've spent £1000 on my Anglia in the last month alone, and that's not aiming for huge power, far and above what is sensible and previously achieved by others. I'll be spending another couple of hundred on Saturday to get it tuned to make the most of what I do have.

It takes a huge amount of money and time to develop modifications for a car where there are none - If you're not prepared to fund that, and climb over the hurdles that come with it, then you've picked the wrong hobby (and the wrong car).

I'm able to do the work myself, which has saved me thousands of pounds in labour charges, a luxury I am well aware is not available to you, and is not through your own choice. However, you are aware that due to this, you are reliant on paying labour charges and the work quality of others, and that needs to be factored in to decisions made regarding vehicles and modifications.

Your attitude towards people here who are trying to help and keep everything on a positive level is quite frankly atrocious - not a single person here has posted anything at all negative, derogatory, or anything other than helpful that I've seen.

If you feel that we've given you nothing but negativity, then feel free to bugger off with your mate, it seems you're ideally suited to each other, and you can sit around chatting about what a bunch of bastards everyone on ClubVR4 are.


As Dave said, if this post gets me a ban (which will probably happen due to the uncharacteristic poor choice of language in my opening sentence), so be it, I'm done with this thread now - you'll be getting no more advice or positivity from me, and I'm sure many other people are probably thinking the same.

[Nick Mann]

Okay everyone, time to reign it all in. Cease and desist!

Further unhelpful comments will be removed, I'm sure I can find Nevs mower.

[chris g]

Lock the thread...?

[Nick Mann]

I'd rather not have to. I would much prefer to think that this friendly club is full of people who are able to control their actions!

[Confused]

I apologise for my reply last night - I had spent half the day in the garage battling with exhausts, fans, electrical issues and coolant leaks, and I was tired and grumpy.


I do understand you are frustrated, and you feel like you're throwing good money after bad, but to me it does really sound like you're very close to the light at the end of the tunnel, and it would be a total waste of everything you've spent so far if you gave up at the final hurdle.


After reflecting overnight, I am prepared to offer more advice and answers to questions, if that's what you wish.

[coney]

From the day I bought my legnum I thought I was.going to tune it up and get power.... It took me about a week of reading on here to realise that was never going to happen!

Did you not question why nothing was available off the shelf for this car? Did you not wonder why you don't often see vr4's gracing the cover of banzai? It genuinely seems, you bought the wrong car.

A friend of mine has a 1100bhp gtr but he has spent the equivalent of a small house on it, a guy on another club I own has a 1400bhp gtr (in Belgium) that build has cost £197,000 so far.

Did you do any research before starting down this path?

This car has only had one owner before me & low milage so no it wasn't the wrong car! maybe the engine nobodies said anything about that.

[chris g]

This car has only had one owner before me & low milage so no it wasn't the wrong car!

The wrong car in that it was going to be expensive, unpredictable, fraught with problems which have to be sorted, and as a result of all these it would be even more expensive when you have to sort the problems...

And for good measure when it is running smoothly you may very well have gearbox issues/need for rebuilds due to power output...

With all the expense and inconvenience that will entail...

[Confused]

This car has only had one owner before me & low milage so no it wasn't the wrong car!

By "the wrong car" we mean that a Galant/Legnum VR-4 is not the correct make/model of car if you want easy big power. They are not a popular car, and there is no one specialising in making parts for them - unlike cars like Skyline, Evo, Impreza etc, where there are literally hundreds of companies making parts for these cars - they are funding the development, and selling you proven parts.

A Galant/Legnum does not have that following - and there is nothing available for them off the shelf, so each and every person who wants to get more power is having to fund the development of bespoke items themselves, and therefore take the risks that are associated with that.


This is what we mean by "the wrong car" - not that the specific VR4 you purchased was wrong (but, there's nothing to say that a single-owner, low mileage car is the "correct" thing, either, if it's not been looked after well - it could have as many or more problems than a higher mileage multiple owner car!!)

[Pugme]

That's also one owner in this country.

But no that is not what I meant by wrong car. As in you should have just bought an rs4 if you so needed a fast estate or a stagea with an rb lump if it had to be jap

I've built a stance car, and I too have started with the wrong car, it's been a long hard journey and I'm surrounded by Nissan's running 12j and -5 camber and the honest answer is

It's been worth every penny to me, to everyone else I've wasted 20 grand building an undriveable car :-)

[coney]

Its still getting no ifs about it i just won't be posting on here nowhere near as much.

[chris g]

Its still getting no ifs about it i just won't be posting on here nowhere near as much.

We will still be here...

[coney]

I'm the wrong guy to ask....

My bonnet cost more to have rehinged than your current bill at eurospec

And I've just spent three times your bill having a custom rear lip made for my legnum, due to one bodyshop ruining an 800 quid lip I had imported from the USA and a second bodyshop destroying the second one and now I've had one hand made over the top of the 2nd balls up....

As car modifiers, we keep going till its right or you take your tampon and go home :-)

My bill so far is £992 or close to it Darren add the other £24,000 thats a whole different ball game. bu the bonnet is a must i've seen 2 places over here that make them & know one person who is knocking a mould up as we speak but if he gets them spot on his might take making a few more up.

[coney]

By "the wrong car" we mean that a Galant/Legnum VR-4 is not the correct make/model of car if you want easy big power. They are not a popular car, and there is no one specialising in making parts for them - unlike cars like Skyline, Evo, Impreza etc, where there are literally hundreds of companies making parts for these cars - they are funding the development, and selling you proven parts.

A Galant/Legnum does not have that following - and there is nothing available for them off the shelf, so each and every person who wants to get more power is having to fund the development of bespoke items themselves, and therefore take the risks that are associated with that.


This is what we mean by "the wrong car" - not that the specific VR4 you purchased was wrong (but, there's nothing to say that a single-owner, low mileage car is the "correct" thing, either, if it's not been looked after well - it could have as many or more problems than a higher mileage multiple owner car!!)

Sorry yes it makes perfect sense now many apologies again

[coney]

:iagree:

Dave you have said what a lot of us are thinking. As a moderator I have to be impartial as I am here for everything & everybody but I think Neal is just frustrated & is possibly taking out on other people just to vent his feelings

Neal's thread title includes the words "CLUELESS" & "HELP NEEDED" to which I feel he has received a huge amount of help "BUT" like others have now stated Neal is having a dig.

I am probably wrong but that is how Neal is coming across which is a real shame as there are some extremely genuine,knowledgeable & friendly members on here which said before goes a long way to beat especially from some other forums I see

Overall I hope you have a car to be proud of & I think most members would like to see the final outcome

Modifications do not come cheap unless you buy something that has already been built by someone else which is a great way to go in cost cutting but will never give you the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself or put your own hand in your wallet with your own money & paid for it to be built.

Either way it is you that have had the cost whether it was hands on or not !!

I wish you luck Neal & "I AM NOT HAVING A DIG" as what you have done to your vr4 is exactly what I was going to do to one of mine

Yes your 100% correct & i sincerely apologize to everybody else on board i will get what i want whatever it takes.

[coney]

well i think this just about somes up this forum user.
usually im not confrontational and outspoken, but when someone comes onto the forum and just uses the experience and knowledge and friedship without contributing anything to the forum.
then turns round and slaggs off the people that are trying to help. that really annoyes me, because this is a great forum and privilege to be part of it.

just go and dont come back.



moderator can do what they like with this post, and if you think i am out of order, then ban me for whatever time you think is appropreiant for voicing my own opinion,
but needed to be said as this is a great forum, one of the best. and nobody has right to slag it off without getting told otherwise.

Well Dave i've apologized to everybody not all person to person but i will apologize to you yes i am a hot head but thats not the way i am 375 its most likely because i don't see positive to negative infront of me straight away i'm not used to have something breaking then getting the help to put it right.

Everytime something breaks around me in day to day life its not like it is on here where good people will go out there way to help. i something breaks here thats it it stays broken.

I will be doing my upmost to be civilized & not spit my dummy out.

Sorry again David

[coney]

well i think this just about somes up this forum user.
usually im not confrontational and outspoken, but when someone comes onto the forum and just uses the experience and knowledge and friedship without contributing anything to the forum.
then turns round and slaggs off the people that are trying to help. that really annoyes me, because this is a great forum and privilege to be part of it.

just go and dont come back.



moderator can do what they like with this post, and if you think i am out of order, then ban me for whatever time you think is appropreiant for voicing my own opinion,
but needed to be said as this is a great forum, one of the best. and nobody has right to slag it off without getting told otherwise.

Well Dave i've apologized to everybody not all person to person but i will apologize to you yes i am a hot head but thats not the way i am 375 its most likely because i don't see positive to negative infront of me straight away i'm not used to have something breaking then getting the help to put it right.

Everytime something breaks around me in day to day life its not like it is on here where good people will go out there way to help. i something breaks here thats it it stays broken.

I will be doing my upmost to be civilized & not spit my dummy out.

Sorry again David

[coney]

With all due respect that's your loss. Out of the crapton of car forums I have spent time on over the years CVR4 is still the best in terms of advice and help.

Ultimately tuning a car past it's stock capabilities always throws up issues with reliability and when you consider the age of the VR4s now it's not surprising. Yes your build has been plagued with issues but there is finally light at the end of the tunnel. Plenty of members have posted helpful advice on this thread only to be met with angry replies by you. At some point you need to realise that it's not exactly fair to carry on like that.

All the best

All i can do & will keep doing till i can do more for everybody else is just keep apologizing to everybody if it takes a month or a year or 10 i will do!

Apologies Gib sincerely

[coney]

Well, Neal, what I can say... good luck!
But with your attitude you going nowhere...

For start, quoted 480 HP from Eurospec sounds to me as wheel power. Ben rarely quotes flywheel figures, and used to put WHP in his dyno chart, only at customer request he calculate them later into fly figures. So, likely you have been quoted 480 WHP, which gives you rough 600 bhp at fly on doggy maps. If I'm right (hope I am), how can it be bad news??
If I'm wrong, still 480 HP on doggy base maps it's still a very good figure.
I've seen many big-hp builds on MLR forum. Bear in mind, parts for Evo builds are way cheaper than custom made for vr4. In the end each build took few years to complete, sorting maps itself takes months (dyno firts, then road and track fly mapping and smoothing). It's a very long process to achieve desired goal. And we talking about builds of tested inside-out vehicles (Evo). How, can it be easier with uncharted territory of vr4??
Also, each reliable big-hp Evo build has totally changed drivetrain (gearbox, transfer and rear diff). Reliable gearbox to sustain 600+ bhp costs minimum 3-4k build. Similar figures for transfer and diff each.
These were just examples.
Back to vr4... Yes, 700bhp figure is a good goal and in theory can be achieved with your Garretts, but that was just estimate not knowing of heads flow capability and characteristics, and many other factors. 6A13 dohc hasn't been tested nor measured by any pofessional tuning company (Buschur, HKS, Cosworth, Tomei, ETS, and few other), so any estimates are nothing else than hit and miss. Twin GT28 will get you to desired mark only with excellent engineered headwork and well designed ecu maps.
IMO, more realistic figure is 550 bhp for start, to begin with findings where power limitations are, and step by step removing them, which in fact is a long process and very costly.
Well, you picked up to heavy modify vr4... Wrong choice sir!

Your build has left only mapping sessions (quite few of them I'm sure), road map smoothing, and to find out which element of drivetrain failed or soon will fail. This is just cosmetic touch up IMO.


Having read that Swinks your bob on all of you its my impatient pig headed diving in with both feet its a major floor that seems to be hard wired & built in but will change my ways otherwise i'm just going to get bitten in the arse at every corner.

If people will allow me to ask for help still & still want to be kept in the loop i would chuffed.

Sorry for being the worlds biggest arshole & chatting utter sh*t

[Davezj]

Well Dave i've apologized to everybody not all person to person but i will apologize to you yes i am a hot head but thats not the way i am 375 its most likely because i don't see positive to negative infront of me straight away i'm not used to have something breaking then getting the help to put it right.

Everytime something breaks around me in day to day life its not like it is on here where good people will go out there way to help. i something breaks here thats it it stays broken.

I will be doing my upmost to be civilized & not spit my dummy out.

Sorry again David

Apology accepted.

Life's to short to hold grudges.
You are a big enough man to apologies so as far as I am concerned slate is clean and let's get on with the more important business of car modding.






Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[Confused]

Sorry yes it makes perfect sense now many apologies again

Apology accepted :)

I can't wait to see this beast once it's done, so please do continue to ask for advice so that we can help you - there's collective knowledge here with hundreds of years worth of experience with these cars!!

[elnevio]

Fair play to you. Many lesser mortals would have cut their nose off to spite their face and never come on here again.

I for one continue to look forward to the progress of this one-of-a-kind. /yes

[Humpty's Revenge]

Yes your 100% correct & i sincerely apologize to everybody else on board i will get what i want whatever it takes.

It takes 2 to argue & one man big enough to apologies

/thankyou Neal

[coney]

Apology accepted.

Life's to short to hold grudges.
You are a big enough man to apologies so as far as I am concerned slate is clean and let's get on with the more important business of car modding.






Sent from my space-aged gizmo

Thank you Dave i will not let it happen again if it means not replying for a month till i read it & it enters the old coconut as you all intended it to not in a malicious way.

[coney]

Apology accepted :)

I can't wait to see this beast once it's done, so please do continue to ask for advice so that we can help you - there's collective knowledge here with hundreds of years worth of experience with these cars!!

Thanks Garry, i can tell from browsing the boards when i get time.

i'm selling my S2 i've decided to make it almost bullet proof.

[coney]

It takes 2 to argue & one man big enough to apologies

/thankyou Neal

No Thank You Steve!

[coney]

So what will the next thing on the list be to improve longevity overall? We know its got the RS rear diff what about the front & gearbox?

[swinks]

Now you are talking Neal :)
Well...
1.Rear dif. You already have good option. Diff from Evo RS supposed to be bullet proof. Some ppl prefer do fit uprated LSD internals for better handling on track, but if your diff is low mileage and was great condition then I personally wouldn't be bothered.
2. Transfer box. From experience from Evo sites (it is the same box as Evo 4-6), stock box used to fail with power over 500+ and big torque. Typical option was to fit transer box from Evo 6 RS or for max results RS box with Cusco LSD or Quife intrernals.
3. Gearbox. Seems that vr4 manual gearbox is almost identical with Evo 4-6 gearbox (different bellhousing tho). From Evo forums, these boxes used to fail with torque over 450 lbft. Budget option on MLR is to get it rebuild with uprated internals by CliveW (Evo guru if comes to gearboxes), you will get professional rebuild box, extended warranty and item which get 500 lbft of torque with no problem. Expensive option is to spend massive money for Quife or Drenth kits.

[Confused]

And in all situations, the best way to get the most life out of what you've already got is to be sensible. Stuff tends to break easiest when used aggressively - so no launching from 5000 rpm, and be gentle with gear changes etc!

[coney]

Now you are talking Neal :)
Well...
1.Rear dif. You already have good option. Diff from Evo RS supposed to be bullet proof. Some ppl prefer do fit uprated LSD internals for better handling on track, but if your diff is low mileage and was great condition then I personally wouldn't be bothered.
2. Transfer box. From experience from Evo sites (it is the same box as Evo 4-6), stock box used to fail with power over 500+ and big torque. Typical option was to fit transer box from Evo 6 RS or for max results RS box with Cusco LSD or Quife intrernals.
3. Gearbox. Seems that vr4 manual gearbox is almost identical with Evo 4-6 gearbox (different bellhousing tho). From Evo forums, these boxes used to fail with torque over 450 lbft. Budget option on MLR is to get it rebuild with uprated internals by CliveW (Evo guru if comes to gearboxes), you will get professional rebuild box, extended warranty and item which get 500 lbft of torque with no problem. Expensive option is to spend massive money for Quife or Drenth kits.
Cheers Swinks!

1. I was talking to A. Findley last he said exactly the same thing about LSD, i couldn't tell you if the RS diff is low milage Gowf acquired it from somewhere i think it was around £1000 if price tells you anything?
2. I'm not sure which would be the better option in the long run with more power coming shortly (Well as soon as my claim is finished B*S*A*RDS should have been sorted last August) so i'm not sure.
3. How much would i be talking for Quife kit?

[coney]

And in all situations, the best way to get the most life out of what you've already got is to be sensible. Stuff tends to break easiest when used aggressively - so no launching from 5000 rpm, and be gentle with gear changes etc!

No launches in this car whatsoever so thats completely out of the equation & only 1 person driving who knows how to drive cars with big power should i say.

[swinks]

Cheers Swinks!
3. How much would i be talking for Quife kit?
Here is Quaife kit you asking:
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/mitsubishi-lancer-evo-5-5-speed-dog-engagement-quaife-gearkit

[coney]

Here is Quaife kit you asking:
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/mitsubishi-lancer-evo-5-5-speed-dog-engagement-quaife-gearkit

Thats a possibility when either the S2 is sold or the claim is finally settled, tbh i don't know how it can be dragged on as long as it has when the other side has already basically held there hands up to liability.

[coney]

This is off topic but is directly related to the Legnum.

Having looked at the S2 today& had one of the mates round who owns Norwood motor company (https://www.facebook.com/norwoodmotorcompany/?fref=ts) & been quoted £1000 for everything, the arches respraying, new exhaust i might get away with just the backbox & colour coding bumpers, he's also sorting the drivers side heated seat that isn't working & the sunroof that doesn't close all the way.

Then up for sale with about £3000 worth of upgrades so that should bring the price of everything altogether thats then what will be spent on the Legnum.

The value of these S2's is all over the place so i'm not quite sure what it will bring.

[coney]

Had an email off Eurospec last wednesday it hasn't quite sunken in yet that there's more bad news! :unbeleeva

Its starting to feeling like some parts aren't as good as the seller made out :vogel: the amount of problems with the used parts but its a risk you take but if i was selling something used i would go out of my way to explain what has been & hasn't been i guess i'm just one of those honest guys who says whatever is on my mind at any forgiven time which i'm a bit ashamed of if i'm honest but it's this lot of upgrades that just want to fuce together to make a half decent car.

Confused Garry i emailed Eurospec asking if it could be the Motor Mounts this was there reply

[Davezj]

i am not having a go i am just being realistic.

Well it is an honest response from Ben, he is not going to sugar coat it.

so you have a 500hp vr4 that is to be congratulated.
with additional dyno time you might get that up to around 600hp that would be amazing performance.
But the closer you push to the edge of the envelope with the engine and the rest of the transmission and drive train, the more likely you are to break something.

would you be prepared to run the car with 500hp to get used to the experience and the possible breakages you will get with that sort of power, and you probably will get some breakages. then plan for a future upgrade/dyno tuning time to get the extra out of the engine.
or are you desperate to ring the max out of the car now.

I think you have to listen to Ben and his experience and if he doesn't think the cars current build has much more to give then you have to believe that.
i believe you want a drivable car that will not be breaking something everytime you go out in it. and to do that you need to make compromises on your current aspirations.
if the car will not produce the power you want or have been promised by a 3rd party then this is not Bens fault, he can only work with what you have given him.

I am sure if ben thought it would be a safe thing to do he would be happy to give your car back with 700hp it would be a great advertisement for his business and expertise.
but the fact that he doesn't feel he can do that must tell you something.

plus you have the transmission issue to sort out already.

[chris g]

Had an email off Eurospec last wednesday it hasn't quite sunken in yet that there's more bad news! :unbeleeva

Its starting to feeling like some parts aren't as good as the seller made out :vogel: the amount of problems with the used parts but its a risk you take but if i was selling something used i would go out of my way to explain what has been & hasn't been i guess i'm just one of those honest guys who says whatever is on my mind at any forgiven time which i'm a bit ashamed of if i'm honest but it's this lot of upgrades that just want to fuce together to make a half decent car.

Confused Garry i emailed Eurospec asking if it could be the Motor Mounts this was there reply

Not certain what is the bad news that is unbelievable or that tells you that parts were not as you expected...

You have been given some info but how that email leads to your post is unclear to me...

[chris g]

And I think you can be certain that even at 500 bhp that a strengthened gearbox will likely need a regular rebuild from the regular impact of the torque on the drivetrain...

More expense...

...on a regular basis...

[Pugme]

Can I ask, why you choose a legnum/galant as your Base for this build?

Because I'm not really sure why your so upset with a 500bhp car. I have a second car which is just under that power, and I am contemplating putting it up to 650bhp, not because its slow. But just for ****s and giggles, there is nothing wrong with 500bhp lol I get to 60 in 4.5 seconds and can pull past 150mph

What exactly are/were your long term plans for this build? and why is 500bhp not enough power?

[Davezj]

i can see why neal would be disappointed with 500hp on the dyno, because he has been told this car will give him 700hp on paper.

but you can't dwell on that and you have to work with what your have got not what you have been told you have got.

[coney]

Not certain what is the bad news that is unbelievable or that tells you that parts were not as you expected...

You have been given some info but how that email leads to your post is unclear to me...

Its when the noise started.

[coney]

I'm not going to be able to post as much about whats happening only because i've got some other things going off that are more important than any car will be but will be back most likely at some point.

[Davezj]

hope everything is ok neal.
and yes cars are not important when you have other more important stuff to consider. it will always be there when you have time do what is needed.

good luck with whatever it is you have to do, it is obviously important to you as anyone can tell you love your car which is why you are so passionate about it.

[coney]

Can I ask, why you choose a legnum/galant as your Base for this build?

Because I'm not really sure why your so upset with a 500bhp car. I have a second car which is just under that power, and I am contemplating putting it up to 650bhp, not because its slow. But just for ****s and giggles, there is nothing wrong with 500bhp lol I get to 60 in 4.5 seconds and can pull past 150mph

What exactly are/were your long term plans for this build? and why is 500bhp not enough power?

What is unbelievable is if it is another Diff thats F*ck*d thats £2200 worth of Diffs thats gone so thats the reason i'm not happy nothing to do with the Power as i said previously the goal was 700hp not promised 700hp.

Darren Dave said it all in his post " you have to work with what your have got"

[coney]

hope everything is ok neal.
and yes cars are not important when you have other more important stuff to consider. it will always be there when you have time do what is needed.

good luck with whatever it is you have to do, it is obviously important to you as anyone can tell you love your car which is why you are so passionate about it.

Thanks alot Dave greatly appreciated!

[chris g]

Its when the noise started.

From the email you posted where Ben said noise was not the engine mounts, then I guess that is where you are mentioning diffs in the subesquent posts and this is the noise that started ...

[coney]

No i mentioned the Diff because the £1700 Diff that Gowf installed when he had the car doing the engine build locked up on him when he was driving doing 50mph so i then had to put another £500 to get the RS Diff.

Ben said he didn't know if was the gearbox,prop shaft or Diff. Thats when i mentioned there was no noises when the car was here.

[Nick Mann]

Unfortunately, if something mechanical has failed whilst at Eurospec it is very unlikely to be their fault. It is perfectly possible, for example, that something was close to failure before the rolling road and that has just finished it off. With a high power build like yours you are going to find the weaknesses quite quickly. I have seen a snapped driveshaft on a VR4 recently that was running standard power but a stage 4 clutch. The car was launched aggressively and a drivehaft snapped. If you can break solid lumps of metal in the drivetrain with standard power, then yours has the potential to find all sorts of weaknesses.

[Pugme]

Ok but 500bhp at the wheels on a bad map (based on common knowledge that eurospec only deal with wheel horse power

Gowf would have been quoting fly figures because that's how we in the real world discuss cars..

So 500 multiply by 1.35

Basing my figures from this thread

http://www.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/510916-dyno-losses.html

675bhp....

So if the above is correct, neal should make make some quick apologies in my opinion.

And you didn't real state neal as to why you choose this car, when you could have bought something considerably more suitable for less money

[coney]

Ok let me just get something off my chest which will help everybody understand why i'm absolutely Wa*k at describing & explaining everything.

You all know i had a bad accident that left me wheelchair bound permanently, Wat some of you may not know is when the car hit me my forehead hit the part of the windscreen that joins to the roof which damaged the frontal lobe part of my brain which is responsible for a lot of things including describing things,decision making,easy build up of frustration,relationships & a whole host of other things so please be patient with me like you have been & understanding.

[coney]

From the email you posted where Ben said noise was not the engine mounts, then I guess that is where you are mentioning diffs in the subesquent posts and this is the noise that started ...

Yes it was after the dyno the noise started.
This is exactly what was said from being on the dyno on May 13th where the noises were first heard in date order from Ceri & Ben just to clarify everything.

I also know when i agreed for Ben to do the Dyno its basically the same as everyone of the 24 operations i've had where you sign your life away incase anything should happen they can't be held accountable if that makes any sense?

[coney]

Unfortunately, if something mechanical has failed whilst at Eurospec it is very unlikely to be their fault. It is perfectly possible, for example, that something was close to failure before the rolling road and that has just finished it off. With a high power build like yours you are going to find the weaknesses quite quickly. I have seen a snapped driveshaft on a VR4 recently that was running standard power but a stage 4 clutch. The car was launched aggressively and a drivehaft snapped. If you can break solid lumps of metal in the drivetrain with standard power, then yours has the potential to find all sorts of weaknesses.

Yes Nick i know exactly what your saying its so they can't be held accountable same as i mentioned to Chris, & its the same as anything if its working harder its bound to break but who was it that said the RS Diff was just about indestructible?

Either way its another £1000 thats if it is the diff it might not be but it will be cleared up after the investigation & the car has never been launched or even driven aggressively.

Yes i completely understand what your saying Nick its just simple logic really.

[coney]

Ok but 500bhp at the wheels on a bad map (based on common knowledge that eurospec only deal with wheel horse power

Gowf would have been quoting fly figures because that's how we in the real world discuss cars..

So 500 multiply by 1.35

Basing my figures from this thread

http://www.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/510916-dyno-losses.html

675bhp....

So if the above is correct, neal should make make some quick apologies in my opinion.

And you didn't real state neal as to why you choose this car, when you could have bought something considerably more suitable for less money

Right Darren not that its of any importance, i choose the Legnum because i needed an estate & 4wd for my place in france because when the winter comes it really comes so i needed something that had some power as well due to it being quite hilly as time went by things just progressed i love the car & wanted more power

So Gowf did the first lot of upgrades to it & got a generous 310hp 350lbt i think don't quote me on that i have the dyno print on my computer if you would like to see i will gladly show them!
From what various people have said there isn't anything to say it will produce this much power, I talked to Ben at Eurospec,Gowf obviously,Lain from Owen Developments,Tom from TurboLabsOfAmerica,Yass from RAWautomotive each with there own opinions so i don't think IMO from speaking to each person there is no real maths that can say for definite.

Is that a patronizing "that's how we in the real world discuss cars.."? Yes it was at the fly it clearly states that on the dyno print.

Who do i need to apologize to? & what about? I've apologized to each & everybody & if you look back i said if i have missed anybody i apologized to everybody.

I have enough frustration Darren without somebody saying "neal should make make some quick apologies in my opinion" what rat crawled up your arse!

Sorry to everybody else if this sounds like i've gone OTT personally i didn't think there was any need!

[Pugme]

So Ben is now quoting you fly figures even tho these are only estimates? From what has been said Ben discusses wheel horse power, I haven't looked at the dyno printouts I've been going by what's been said in here.

And as I've just said in my post which you obviously didn't read, 500 at the wheels is near enough 700 at the fly, and Gowf promised you 700bhp

And when people (not mechanics or tuners) talk about power we talk about fly figures

Seriously it's like your a 7 year old kid!!

[Confused]

Yes it was after the dyno the noise started.
This is exactly what was said from being on the dyno on May 13th where the noises were first heard in date order from Ceri & Ben just to clarify everything.

From the screenshots you've posted of the emails, they said it "might" be the diff, or it "might" be the prop, but they still don't know, and they are still asking for your approval to spend the time (and therefore money) to investigate it properly. All they've done so far is made a guess as to where the noise is coming from.


To be honest, you've got a f******g quick car (let alone a Legnum) if it's 500bhp AT THE WHEELS. As has been said, Ben only works in power at the wheels. He only provides an ESTIMATED flywheel figure if asked, as it's just that, an estimate. If you want an accurate flywheel figure, then you'll need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno. And as others have done the estimation for you, this is close to 700bhp at the fly, anyway.

Personally - I'd be VERY happy with a car that has 500hp at the wheels.


Unless you buy a specific kit, designed and tested on a specific engine, which has been built up and run on an engine dyno with a proven output, then absolutely EVERYONE that you talk to about modifications will only be able to guess at the actual power output you'll get. Hell, even a big manufacturer like Mitsubishi, who will have spent millions on development, will have variations in the overall output of the engines - some will produce slightly less, some slightly more than their estimations. Quite how you believe one guy picking some parts up from the internet and putting them together on an unknown car can correctly estimate the power output... you need to re-adjust your expectations to be more realistic.

[coney]

So Ben is now quoting you fly figures even tho these are only estimates? From what has been said Ben discusses wheel horse power, I haven't looked at the dyno printouts I've been going by what's been said in here.

And as I've just said in my post which you obviously didn't read, 500 at the wheels is near enough 700 at the fly, and Gowf promised you 700bhp

And when people (not mechanics or tuners) talk about power we talk about fly figures

Seriously it's like your a 7 year old kid!!

No Darren i didn't read all your comments because it feels like your trying to provoke me to get into an argument.

If you are trying to get an argument out of me by saying its like talking to a 7yld why don't you go & shove your negative comments where somebody actually cares i'm not acknowledging your posts in future unless you have something positive to say what you are doing is not positive to me anyway.

Gowf never promised me 700hp that was our target or goal!

[coney]

From the screenshots you've posted of the emails, they said it "might" be the diff, or it "might" be the prop, but they still don't know, and they are still asking for your approval to spend the time (and therefore money) to investigate it properly. All they've done so far is made a guess as to where the noise is coming from.


To be honest, you've got a f******g quick car (let alone a Legnum) if it's 500bhp AT THE WHEELS. As has been said, Ben only works in power at the wheels. He only provides an ESTIMATED flywheel figure if asked, as it's just that, an estimate. If you want an accurate flywheel figure, then you'll need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno. And as others have done the estimation for you, this is close to 700bhp at the fly, anyway.

Personally - I'd be VERY happy with a car that has 500hp at the wheels.


Unless you buy a specific kit, designed and tested on a specific engine, which has been built up and run on an engine dyno with a proven output, then absolutely EVERYONE that you talk to about modifications will only be able to guess at the actual power output you'll get. Hell, even a big manufacturer like Mitsubishi, who will have spent millions on development, will have variations in the overall output of the engines - some will produce slightly less, some slightly more than their estimations. Quite how you believe one guy picking some parts up from the internet and putting them together on an unknown car can correctly estimate the power output... you need to re-adjust your expectations to be more realistic.

I've already said yes to start investigating what the problem could be infact i did straight away after that very email was sent.

To be honest with you Garry at this point i will be happy to just get the car back, But won't rush Ben until he says to me your car is safe & good to go.

I never asked for flywheel power all i wanted to know was what the power was in low & high boost, So Ben put it on the dyno & informed Ceri who then sent me the email shown on the screenshot.

Nothing was specifically said whether it be fly or at the wheel.

Like i said time & time again me & Gowf aimed for 700hp (we never spoke about fly or the wheel) I was never sat there expecting to get 700hp it was just surprising the amount of variables which i have learned since.

I said i'm no expert far from it & learning more everyday.

I'll see how everything goes & get back when & if i can so for now i'll leave here as is.

Thanks

[swinks]

Regarding powah figures... Some of you guys easy jump on the bandwagon... not reading thoroughly posts.
I only assumed that quoted figure can be WHP (based on my experience with Ben), hence close to target. But, how do we know that 480 HP wasn't a fly. We don't. Ben used to quote WHP figures with people more experienced in car modifying, so it may be he quoted fly figures to less experienced customer. That way, I can understand Neal frustration.

Regarding knocks from driveline. Well, let Eurospec to investigate one. It's not easy to diagnose one without taking apart and close look. It may be propshaft bearings or mounts (happens with high powered Evo), it may be simple thing as diff mounts (high powered Evo runs polybushed hangers to limit diff movement), it may be front transfer box (most likely).
So... many other parts before we start to blame rs diff.

[coney]

Hey Swinks thanks for trying to understand matey you are correct Ben was talking about whp! instead of like some other comments just jumping to conclusions & assumptions the old saying goes & everybody should remember that!

Ben was talking about whp but nevertheless if he was talking about fly or whp a comment like that "its like talking to a 6 or 7yld is quite degrading & is the type of thing that would or could put somebody off posting altogether! I know i'm not the sharpest knife in the draw when it comes to cars & technicalities but still there's no need to treat people the way some do it just discourages people like myself from posting although i have acted like a prat myself & will be the first to admit it but will apologize if i know i am in the wrong if not i'm not the type of person to take sh*t!

I spoke to Ben Friday & tbh it scared the pants off me talking about upgrading all the drive train & how much parts cost & one of of the things he did mention was when somebody builds an engine to this sort of power the other parts like the drive train should also be discussed & not just upgrading all the engine components which i agree is the correct way to approach a build when first setting out.

So Tomasz i told Ben to go ahead & investigate as mentioned earlier & was told it would take around 2 hours of investigations so in that time frame will he most likely go over the things you mentioned?

Ben mentioned upgrading the gearbox & prop if i was to think about upgrading where would the parts be available? & the parts you mentioned?

[Davezj]

480hp at the wheels, your engine imust be making over 600hp at the fly wheel. that is fantasic result.

that sort of power is going to stress the drive train that was designed to put 200hp at the wheels down on to the road and none of the drive line is new stuff, it is all older warn parts.
i am not putting a downer on you build, i am just saying what have said in previous post.

personally i would get a fix for the noise issue you have and leaving it like that for a while. enjoy the power in the car see if you can run the car day to day without breaking drive line parts on a regular basis. then if all is good go back for more power.
There is no point striving for more power before you know the drive line can handle what you currently have without a major upgrade.

If you do have multiple drive line failures with the power you have then you really only have a couple of obvious options,

1. do the upgrade to the drive line components. i would imagine this would costly.

2. fix the failures you get and have some power taken out of the car so it is drivable with the standard drive line components. i know you will not like option 2 but it is an option.

i am just looking at a realistic outcome.

you are pioneering this sort of power, you have to expect to have lots of breakages on the way.


i wish you all the luck in the world and hope you don't have more issues and the drive line can handle power.
i deserve a bit of good luck every now and then.

[swinks]

Ben mentioned upgrading the gearbox & prop if i was to think about upgrading where would the parts be available? & the parts you mentioned?
That's actually easy to suggest. It all depends how deep your pockets are and how fat your wallet is.
In general, you have at the moment 2 very weak points in your build: gearbox and transferbox. Fortunately for you, both share internals with Evo 5-6, hence any kits suitable for Evo will do a job in your build. Just buy upgraded internals and let specialist tuners to build your box.
Unfortunately, hassle doesn't end here. After building gearbox and transferbox, you need to make sure there is no traverse movement whilst gear engaged, etc, so solid polybushes into engine/gearbox mounts, then think about other parts of driveline: propshaft (new mounts and bearing are must do). and mounts of rear diff (maybe tubular mustache bars with solid bushing).
Anyway, most of needed stuff you will find from Evo 5-6. In terms of costs it could well be shy 10k IMHO.
But first, talk with Ben. He has massive experience in powah builds and will guide you what has to be done and what is just waste of money or fancy kit, not necessary.

[coney]

480hp at the wheels, your engine imust be making over 600hp at the fly wheel. that is fantasic result.

that sort of power is going to stress the drive train that was designed to put 200hp at the wheels down on to the road and none of the drive line is new stuff, it is all older warn parts.
i am not putting a downer on you build, i am just saying what have said in previous post.

personally i would get a fix for the noise issue you have and leaving it like that for a while. enjoy the power in the car see if you can run the car day to day without breaking drive line parts on a regular basis. then if all is good go back for more power.
There is no point striving for more power before you know the drive line can handle what you currently have without a major upgrade.

If you do have multiple drive line failures with the power you have then you really only have a couple of obvious options,

1. do the upgrade to the drive line components. i would imagine this would costly.

2. fix the failures you get and have some power taken out of the car so it is drivable with the standard drive line components. i know you will not like option 2 but it is an option.

i am just looking at a realistic outcome.

you are pioneering this sort of power, you have to expect to have lots of breakages on the way.


i wish you all the luck in the world and hope you don't have more issues and the drive line can handle power.
i deserve a bit of good luck every now and then.


Yes David i already knew the standard parts wouldn't hold the extra power thats pretty obvious even to me i mentioned it earlier on in the thread & knew from the first upgrades when i bought the new clutch & flywheel.

I've had an email yesterday from Ceri, i had already asked her to if she would pass a message onto Ben asking if it is the gearbox making the noises would he be able to source one used just so i could get out in the car sometime this summer but not using it aggressively & how much it would cost to fit?

Anbody any idea how long it takes to take the old gearbox out & put the other used in? so i know what sort of money i will be paying? its around £65 an hour labour.

Even option 2. David is better than not being able to get out in it at all so the way things are looking i think it will have to be 2.

Would just keeping the power on low Boost be ok with the standard drive train at 420hp like i said no aggressive driving & definitely no launches ever!

Cheers David i could do with a little luck as well mate!:seeking:

[Davezj]

fingers crossed from it is only something simple and cheap to fix.

i can do a manual gear box in less than a day as long as all the bolts come undo and don't snap, so with the all the tools, a ramp, transmission jack to make it easier, this is just a guess, but about 4 hours start to finish i would say. i might be more it might be less, but it depends how rusted up everything is.
the best thing to do will be ask Ben he will have a very good idea of time as i would have thought he would have done a few of these in the past.
the transfer case will have to come out to get the gear box out. and if the clutch is not brand new or built to handle the extra power you now have then it would be a good time to get that swapped out as well.

[coney]

That's actually easy to suggest. It all depends how deep your pockets are and how fat your wallet is.
In general, you have at the moment 2 very weak points in your build: gearbox and transferbox. Fortunately for you, both share internals with Evo 5-6, hence any kits suitable for Evo will do a job in your build. Just buy upgraded internals and let specialist tuners to build your box.
Unfortunately, hassle doesn't end here. After building gearbox and transferbox, you need to make sure there is no traverse movement whilst gear engaged, etc, so solid polybushes into engine/gearbox mounts, then think about other parts of driveline: propshaft (new mounts and bearing are must do). and mounts of rear diff (maybe tubular mustache bars with solid bushing).
Anyway, most of needed stuff you will find from Evo 5-6. In terms of costs it could well be shy 10k IMHO.
But first, talk with Ben. He has massive experience in powah builds and will guide you what has to be done and what is just waste of money or fancy kit, not necessary.

Yes i know mate if i had the pockets that were endless the car would done & would be out in the car all day everyday as it stands its a waiting game & constant anxiety.

So the transfer box & gearbox are basically compatible with Evo 5-6 thats a bonus & lightens the load off my shoulders but the rest puts more on.

When anybody in general says "you need to do whatever" Just bare in mind i can't do nothing bar use the computer so if you could try to say something like "Take the car to a certain specialist if needs be who will be able to make sure there is no traverse movement whilst gear engaged, etc, so solid polybushes into engine/gearbox mounts"

If that makes any sense?

Thats exactly what i've been doing with Ben, speaking about what steps need to be done after one object has been completed successfully that was when he mentioned the gearbox in one of his cars costing £26k i think he said that was the time when my internals fell from my arse through the wheelchair & through the floor boards!

Will the propshaft out of an Evo 5-6 fit the legnum?

[coney]

fingers crossed from it is only something simple and cheap to fix.

i can do a manual gear box in less than a day as long as all the bolts come undo and don't snap, so with the all the tools, a ramp, transmission jack to make it easier, this is just a guess, but about 4 hours start to finish i would say. i might be more it might be less, but it depends how rusted up everything is.
the best thing to do will be ask Ben he will have a very good idea of time as i would have thought he would have done a few of these in the past.
the transfer case will have to come out to get the gear box out. and if the clutch is not brand new or built to handle the extra power you now have then it would be a good time to get that swapped out as well.

Been trying to get an update all week but it's like talking to dead then i finally got a response turns out Ben is racing so another week passing of the short summer weather gone! i can't be to much longer hopefully.

They've got to fit the new Tial Q 50mm BOV, find the noises wherever it is then go from there.

David do you charge £70 an hour? Th one thing i've got going through my head is how many standard gearboxes is it going to chew through dependent on how heavily it's used i know or what are the sensible options without going OTT cost wise?

The clutch is from Steve a member a member on here brand new a log with the spare engine,Diff thats now scrap & a few other parts he doesn't post on here anymore i don't think?

Ben lets me know what the problems could be what are my opinions if it is the gearbox, 3rd diff or propshaft if any are needed?

[Davezj]

i don't do work on cars for money. just for pleasure.

so time is not a real issue for me, i would rather take twice as long, do a bit have brew, do a bit more, think about it a bit, work out the best way to finish it off, do the final button up. i would rather ensure a job is done right than done fast. If you are doing work for someone else you don't have the option of taking the time and doing at your leisure.

[coney]

i don't do work on cars for money. just for pleasure.

so time is not a real issue for me, i would rather take twice as long, do a bit have brew, do a bit more, think about it a bit, work out the best way to finish it off, do the final button up. i would rather ensure a job is done right than done fast. If you are doing work for someone else you don't have the option of taking the time and doing at your leisure.

Well all i can say is there aint enough people like you in the world it would be a far better place if there were same goes for quite a few members on here,
Can you strip gearboxes down & rebuild them or would it be better off going somewhere to have it done when the results come back & i know which Gearbox,Tranferbox,Diff or Propshaft?


It only seems like the same handful of people posting on this thread i must have piss*d quite a few people off thats all it can be really.

Once the results come back from the investigations i'm going to be needing some help which parts to get for this application if everybody wants to chuck me there opinions in?

What do you think David?

[swinks]

... or would it be better off going somewhere to have it done when the results come back & i know which Gearbox,Tranferbox,Diff or Propshaft?

This is the only right way to deal with problem. Fix what is failing first by reputable garage/workshop which can give you warranty on their job, and then have honest chat with Ben and consider further steps to make stronger driveline.

Propshaft from Evo 4-6 won't fit, different size and mounts.

I rather stop giving you any further suggestions till you definitely know what part is failing. Believe me, it'll save you headache and money throwing :)

[chris g]

I'm back to give my view

Not certain if I might be one of the few people on here who should be like Davezj...

However, like swinks, and I think a number of people on here have been saying similar things for some time...

Get car sorted and then decide what you want to do and can afford...

Stop thinking of the bits and your options and stop asking questions for any advice about them...

Implications for your future choices will likely flow from the final sorted product and advice from Ben...

[Davezj]

swinks and chris have the right way forward for you.

wait, get the diagnosis from ben, work out what you can upgrade on that part, ben will be able to point to in the right direction.
then when you get the car back, enjoy it.
ben will point you in the right direction for future upgrade and the there are some very knowlegable people on here, and on ozVR4 that have done and are doing this sort of power hike.

If you do have future issue with breakages in the drive train you will not be the first or the last to have broken every part of the standard drive train, before finding the right upgrade part that suits your car build and pocket.
dont worry about that sort stuff for now, once you have the car back use it for the rest of the year and in winter time consider your option then.

Oh and with regard to gear boxes, no i don't do gearbox stip downs and rebuilds, upgrades. i have been involved with one or two for the sake of knowing what is involved and how to do it. just for my own curiosity, but nothing more than that.
i drive and auto and at the moment i prefer the driving experience. If i move to manual gear box it will only be due to destroying my complete stash of auto boxes due to the fact they can't handle the power, but i am not at that stage. i would like to be at that stage, but alas i am not.

[coney]

This is the only right way to deal with problem. Fix what is failing first by reputable garage/workshop which can give you warranty on their job, and then have honest chat with Ben and consider further steps to make stronger driveline.

Propshaft from Evo 4-6 won't fit, different size and mounts.

I rather stop giving you any further suggestions till you definitely know what part is failing. Believe me, it'll save you headache and money throwing :)

Yeah i understand what you mean Tomasz & thanks for thinking like that appreciated mate!

Another week gone by & still no wiser i know i said i wasn't rushing Ben but an update would be nice, What has got me really confused is the fact that i was told & have the proof the car was at 480hp but today i received an email which i thought would be the email with an update & knew it would have the dyno print attached but when i looked at the print out but left me scratching my head well if i could that is!

Maybe someday can help me understand these dyno prints please?

[Davezj]

Post up the dyno plots and we will have a look.


Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[coney]

I received an email earlier from Eurospec! when i asked about the Dyno Print cause i couldn't understand it & the reply left me completely lost for words!

391hp at the wheels at 1.3 bar wtf is happening its all at the worst time possible when everything else in my life is going tits up, I'm now left with a lot of questions but i'm so confused i can't think what to ask i am quickly going insane with this car & the build.

It started out before August 2013 when the was 310hp at the wheels before it even started, Nearly 3 years on & just under £26,000 lighter i'm still paying for a broken car & been informed the car is running at 391hp at the wheels at 1.3bar!

So can somebody please tell me why i've had 3 different power readings? Because i haven't got a clue & its my car lmao:sick::lost::dizzy2:/Wyhy:unbeleeva:shocked::anxious::anxious:

You guys will put me straight hopefully! I have been trying to find out whats happening with the gearbox noise but Eurospec are busy & the email i got today has completely thrown me out!

The 1st & 3rd Dyno Prints & the middle is the screenshot from Ceri

Any help chaps would be so greatly appreciated

Sorry if i haven't replied in full i will just as soon as a i find a CROWBAR big enough to pry me head from up my arse hopefully by then i'll have some good news from anywhere i don't care where as long as its good.

[Nick Mann]

Those numbers are dated the same as the email where you were quoted 480 on high boost. Something doesn't add up, maybe there are multiple runs and this was a lower one?

If you car was on stock turbos when you had 310 then I will guarantee that the 310 was at the fly. At the wheels would have been around 230.

[Davezj]

you probably need to get back to them and clarify if these are the the correct printouts.

[orionn2o]

As Nick says, Your car before would have been 310 at the fly. Your car is now 520 at the fly. That's quite an improvement.

One thing to mention is that peak HP isn't everything, and you'll find the guys at Eurospec may end up giving you back a car that has less HP than the peak that they achieved. However what they can do by adjusting the timing etc is create an engine that has a lot more torque , so although it doesn't hit the max HP it pulls like a train from a lower rpm. This overall leads to a faster more driveable car.

Or its just the wrong printout!

[coney]

Those numbers are dated the same as the email where you were quoted 480 on high boost. Something doesn't add up, maybe there are multiple runs and this was a lower one?

If you car was on stock turbos when you had 310 then I will guarantee that the 310 was at the fly. At the wheels would have been around 230.

Nick tell me about it mate, I been asking for over a week so i know how much i'm upto with the money situation, I lost about the power result what your seeing is what i've been told.
Let me go over the emails to see if i have missed something but i am 99% positive i haven't missed anything.

I spoke to Ben today he didn't sound happy with me if i'm honest i was only trying to understand the power & he did set me straight but the the tone of his voice said enough i might have caught him at a bad time which is fully understandable.

[coney]

you probably need to get back to them and clarify if these are the the correct printouts.

Like i said to Nick David i spoke to Ben today & he did say "your car has X amount of power" is been a long seriously hard week so i will email them tomorrow but i feel like i'm badgering them when there obviously busy everytime i have phoned it went to the answering machine after trying quite a few times Ben did answer but he didn't sound impressed with me but again it must have been a bad time so i don't know if i should leave it till monday.

[coney]

As Nick says, Your car before would have been 310 at the fly. Your car is now 520 at the fly. That's quite an improvement.

One thing to mention is that peak HP isn't everything, and you'll find the guys at Eurospec may end up giving you back a car that has less HP than the peak that they achieved. However what they can do by adjusting the timing etc is create an engine that has a lot more torque , so although it doesn't hit the max HP it pulls like a train from a lower rpm. This overall leads to a faster more driveable car.

Or its just the wrong printout!

I wish i could afford it Matt,The SPA oil temperature/Fuel pressure gauge isn't working properly & the EDFC controller hasn't switched on since before it went to Eurospec but i can't afford the inspection cost to find out so there both going to have to wait till i save some benefits up.

[coney]

Its official I'm cursed or this car is simple or somebody has taken the piss with my car!

[chris g]

Its official I'm cursed or this car is simple or somebody has taken the piss with my car!

No, it's not official until confirmed by the BBC but...

...it seems you may be cursed, or someone has taken the piss with your car, or made mistakes...

[Grid]

From the sounds of it, somebody took it for a joyride while they were entrusted with it? Esp. the buckled wheel part... unless that was also caused by the mishandling from/to the flatbed truck.

[swinks]

Well, IIRC, you did mention failed front coilovers and collapsed suspension once your ride been at different garage. Here we go, obvious signs of joyride by someone or disaster whilst getting on flatbed.
Question is how much trust you have in your driver or former garage mechanics. Anyway, these signs IMO indicate that your vehicle been misused and end up in accident, simply like that.

[coney]

No, it's not official until confirmed by the BBC but...

...it seems you may be cursed, or someone has taken the piss with your car, or made mistakes...

Lol which BBC? There's mistakes where an Ooopps thats not right then there's an Ooopps this little lots costing near enough £3k! It unexceptable!

[coney]

From the sounds of it, somebody took it for a joyride while they were entrusted with it? Esp. the buckled wheel part... unless that was also caused by the mishandling from/to the flatbed truck.

Tomasz that was the very first thing that went through my mind & knowing my mate the only other person who drove the car wouldn't do it. I'll ask either Ceri or Ben, Ceri was the one who took the pictures of the careless cowboy unloading it when he dropped it off at Eurospec.

[coney]

And yes i did mention i Thought the suspension had collapsed but later corrected that & said it was lower when i received the car back from Gowf & the way it was parked our drive has got different degrees in it all over,

I have my own suspicions & was the flatback dropping it off i'll get confirmation about that monday.

[coney]

What can be involved in the transfer box from what Eurospec? I worked it out to be around £1500 without parts & tbh i'm absolutely scared to death about the news if transfer box did go to a specialist!

[coney]

The quote from Eurospec

£1561.2 for
A new rear Diff casing, Does this have to be an RS Diff casing or will the casing off a standard rear Diff fit just as good?
Transfer Box without postage & parts (Its going to a specialist so i can't see that being cheap)

They also said as RS Diff on a Galant the two things dont really go together. So is my car the only car on here with this sort of setup?

What is involved in creating a solid Front mount?

What i can't get my head round is somebody who knows what they are doing shouldn't they have known this could have happened in the first place?

Can somebody try to explain to me what the hell is wrong with this picture because to me & my opinions mean very little its like a rush job & cutting corners but like i said what i think doesn't really make a blind bit of difference.

[Nick Mann]

A limited slip rear diff is not the same casing as a VR4 with ayc. There are people running lsd diffs on VR4s but not at your power level.
What is the specialist going to do with the transfer box? If it includes making it stronger then it is worth the cost surely?
I know someone who has snapped driveshafts on relatively standard power VR4s so you are going to find the weak points on a regular basis.

[SEAN-NZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the broken drive shafts running on a rwd vr4?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chris g]

The quote from Eurospec

£1561.2 for
A new rear Diff casing, Does this have to be an RS Diff casing or will the casing off a standard rear Diff fit just as good?
Transfer Box without postage & parts (Its going to a specialist so i can't see that being cheap)

They also said as RS Diff on a Galant the two things dont really go together. So is my car the only car on here with this sort of setup?

What is involved in creating a solid Front mount?

What i can't get my head round is somebody who knows what they are doing shouldn't they have known this could have happened in the first place?

Can somebody try to explain to me what the hell is wrong with this picture because to me & my opinions mean very little its like a rush job & cutting corners but like i said what i think doesn't really make a blind bit of difference.

If you have questions about what the work entails then you need to ask Eurospec...

If you want answers about why someone did something that did not seem right or should have foreseen an issue then you are just going to get a ****in big headache...

Focus on options, work that can be done and decisions you have to make...

The rest of us speculating about what should have been done or who should have known about problems will not be helpful...

[CANDEE]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the broken drive shafts running on a rwd vr4?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most of them were in rwd, however someone was bedding in a unsprung triple plate and did a 5k launch in 4wd and broke one. Oh wait it was the same guy.. ;)

[coney]

A limited slip rear diff is not the same casing as a VR4 with ayc. There are people running lsd diffs on VR4s but not at your power level.
What is the specialist going to do with the transfer box? If it includes making it stronger then it is worth the cost surely?
I know someone who has snapped driveshafts on relatively standard power VR4s so you are going to find the weak points on a regular basis.

Ok i didn't know that is the only reason i'm asking,

Sorry everybody once again i've made a mistake its a good job i don't get charged for mistakes somebody would be in the money! I should have taken my time instead of rushing.:oops:

This should make life easier for everybody for me its a bit unnerving as the transfer box is going to be really expensive i would imagine so if anybody has anything that might brighten my day feel free to help:seeking:.

Before anybody else says there's going to be weak links yes i already know that but if somebody can see things from my point view these things should have been thought about before specially the parts underlined.

Has anybody solid mounted there cars before so i can get a jist of how much i'm looking at.

[coney]

If you have questions about what the work entails then you need to ask Eurospec...

If you want answers about why someone did something that did not seem right or should have foreseen an issue then you are just going to get a ****in big headache...

Focus on options, work that can be done and decisions you have to make...

The rest of us speculating about what should have been done or who should have known about problems will not be helpful...

I thought this forum was made to ask questions & ask for peoples opinions or should I be on another website? I'm asking because this forum is full of helpful knowledgeable people.

If people can't answer a question & be truthful & unbiased then the people who can't do so must have a reason why?

It might not seem helpful to CGRIS but to me it is! What is the point of even having a forum such as this if questions can't be asked or answered? I not talking about everybody here just you Chis?

[Humpty's Revenge]

OK a polite note to all posters within this thread

Again this is to everyone who has posted in this thread

Neal what ever is being said here is trying to help you & yes it is a forum of knowledgeable guys who give over an opinion which is pointing you in the right direction but as you have said in a round about way you could be taking things just a smidge personally but that is how it comes over, sorry

You must realize you have taken this type of car beyond what any other club member has done, some are close

I am not digging at anyone but I would like to say this is getting close to closed thread time

This is something that needs to be sorted for future members who like Neal want big power from the vr4

[chris g]

I thought this forum was made to ask questions & ask for peoples opinions or should I be on another website? I'm asking because this forum is full of helpful knowledgeable people.

If people can't answer a question & be truthful & unbiased then the people who can't do so must have a reason why?

It might not seem helpful to CGRIS but to me it is! What is the point of even having a forum such as this if questions can't be asked or answered? I not talking about everybody here just you Chis?

Neal I am only talking to you...

Asking questions that reinforce your view that somebody ****ed up modifying your car does not get you car sorted today

This is then a distraction to you asking Europsec the right questions about problems and poss solutions...

... and prob more importantly, is a distraction to you making the right choices about how to proceed and when to decide to stop modifying and try the car on the road...

[Confused]

Neal,

Everyone is here is visiting this site in their own free time, and have the right to offer their opinion - and equally NOT offer their opinion, on any topic.

We've had this discussion before - but you're letting your personal views/opinions get in the way, and you're turning everything that anyone says (or doesn't) into an insult towards yourself.


Very few people here have even begun to consider the possibility of aiming for as much power as you have in a VR-4 (partly, because we realise it's not the right car for it, and partly because of the cost of doing so) - so a lot of us are outside of our sphere of knowledge. The basic troubleshooting you originally asked for (which more people could help you with) is complete - and the car is the hands of a specialist, who knows way more than we do - this renders our input less and less valuable to you.

You appear to be looking for confirmation that your beliefs regarding the things done previously to your car are or are not right. WE DO NOT KNOW. We do not know what was and was not a viable option when this work was first done.

As an example - around 5 years ago, we believed that the standard ECU could not be programmed, and so people were looking at (and pointed towards) aftermarket solutions to cater for minor modifications (ie, to increase boost levels, buy an electronic boost controller). We now know that the ECU can be programmed, and we know how to do it, so we are now recommending that the standard ECU is kept for these minor modifications. The information given to a forum member 5 years ago was not incorrect - it was what we knew to be the most viable option AT THE TIME.


We do not know whether the "best" option available at the time was what was done to your car and it's only with new knowledge do we find out that this is now not the preferred option, or whether it was just done wrong at the time.



You're wanting to push the envelope with what is possible with a VR-4 - you're being a pioneer - this is not a cheap process for any vehicle - ESPECIALLY when you also have to include labour charges. You also appear to lack the basic knowledge required to understand what is required to modify and maintain a car in such a way.


If you want big power, then I would suggest you buy a car that is better suited to it and has a better tuning market available for it. An Audi RS6 Avant starts at about 400-500bhp, and I've seen ones for sale on Pistonheads with over ~700bhp.

But, even with this, you'll still be spending big money - in your position, is that really the best thing, though, as you've been complaining about cash-flow issues with the current work undertaken.


I hope that you read this post with the sincerity and respect I aimed for, and don't take it as another insult, because, honestly, I do not mean it as one. I am trying to explain why it might appear that you're not getting the support or responses you are looking for.


What might be worthwhile is getting someone to help you make a list of exactly what is what. I understand that writing is a difficult process for you - so get someone with you do the writing/typing, and you just do the talking, so you only need to concentrate on one thing - the car.

Some things to think about: What issues are still outstanding? What are your primary concerns? What do you not understand? What are your aims? Why do you not feel you're there yet?

Get your friend to type this up on here for you - they will be able to objectively write down the relevant information, without the emotion you are feeling regarding the car. This will help both you and us to understand what you require assistance with.


As I've said before, the power levels you are aiming for are interesting to me (although I do not have the funds to begin considering it), but the engineer in me wants to see what can be done, and how it's done, and see this car out on the streets and at some meets.

[Kenneth]

You can increase the strength of the transfer box very easily and quite cheaply, so long as you know someone with a drill press who knows a bit about drilling aluminium.

By re-drilling the casing bolts, putting heli-coil (or similar product) inserts and then using high strength 10mm bolts (or studs if you want to get that little bit extra) you can increase the torque holding ability by quite a bit.

This mod is able to withstand 100% of power to rear wheels on a home-tuned VR-4 (so probably around the 250hp at the wheels). So 50/50 split front and rear, up to 500hp should be OK.

[coney]

OK a polite note to all posters within this thread

Again this is to everyone who has posted in this thread

Neal what ever is being said here is trying to help you & yes it is a forum of knowledgeable guys who give over an opinion which is pointing you in the right direction but as you have said in a round about way you could be taking things just a smidge personally but that is how it comes over, sorry

You must realize you have taken this type of car beyond what any other club member has done, some are close

I am not digging at anyone but I would like to say this is getting close to closed thread time

This is something that needs to be sorted for future members who like Neal want big power from the vr4

Ok no problem thanks, Al i was wanting was answers to my questions but i'll just stop & take whatever happens as it happens.

Apologies again.

[coney]

OK a polite note to all posters within this thread

Again this is to everyone who has posted in this thread

Neal what ever is being said here is trying to help you & yes it is a forum of knowledgeable guys who give over an opinion which is pointing you in the right direction but as you have said in a round about way you could be taking things just a smidge personally but that is how it comes over, sorry

You must realize you have taken this type of car beyond what any other club member has done, some are close

I am not digging at anyone but I would like to say this is getting close to closed thread time

This is something that needs to be sorted for future members who like Neal want big power from the vr4

Steve what can i say i was simply asking a question.

I'm just going to wait till the car is finished before i post again it will be the best thing all round, This isn't anything against anybody i feel if i keep posting things will just spiral out of control so by elimination of staying away for a while i can't get myself in trouble does that make sense?

Again Sorry to everyone if i have rubbed you up the wrong way & will post in a few weeks when hopefully everything will be sorted & the car is on the road that way i will be happier & no negativity will come out of me.

Thanks to everybody who has posted to try to help.

Best Regards to everybody.

Neal