Still losing coolant, final plea before new engine!

[cwgt93]

My VR4 is still losing coolant. Not a huge amount, but enough that you know it's definitely not right.

Thermostat has been replaced along with the rad cap.

Pressure test has been carried on the head and the radiator - all good.

No visible leaks anywhere.

It's gotten hot once in stationary traffic after a 300 mile journey. Engine was immediately turned off and left for 20 minutes, the temp was then fine from then on. I noticed the coolant overflow tank was full to the brim?

Fans cut in at the right speed when they should.


Really lost for any other ideas. Any other things to check that I've missed? I'd even be willing to drive to one of your forum guys and pay someone to give it a look over before getting a new engine!


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[Nick Mann]

Mine is losing more than normal at the moment. I think mine is from the heater matrix but I can't be sure.
Have you got a local mechanic who can do a sniff test? I wouldn't think that it will be an engine problem if the sniff test is good, especially as the pressure test is good.

Can the guys who did the pressure test do it on a hot and running engine? That might show something up.

[cwgt93]

Mine is losing more than normal at the moment. I think mine is from the heater matrix but I can't be sure.
Have you got a local mechanic who can do a sniff test? I wouldn't think that it will be an engine problem if the sniff test is good, especially as the pressure test is good.

Can the guys who did the pressure test do it on a hot and running engine? That might show something up.
It's in the garage at the moment Nick, so yes I will ask them to do that also. I really don't think it's anything major as the engine has never missed a beat. It's so frustrating!

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[giblet]

Dave did a sniff test after the radiator was replaced and it came back fine. A complete engine swap would be drastic given the relatively low mileage of the current one.

[Davezj]

My VR4 is still losing coolant. Not a huge amount, but enough that you know it's definitely not right.

Thermostat has been replaced along with the rad cap.

Pressure test has been carried on the head and the radiator - all good.

No visible leaks anywhere.

It's gotten hot once in stationary traffic after a 300 mile journey. Engine was immediately turned off and left for 20 minutes, the temp was then fine from then on. I noticed the coolant overflow tank was full to the brim?

Fans cut in at the right speed when they should.


Really lost for any other ideas. Any other things to check that I've missed? I'd even be willing to drive to one of your forum guys and pay someone to give it a look over before getting a new engine!


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the info you put in the post is not very useful. i am not having a go just trying to get all the facts to make a helpful diagnosis. we only know what you tell us, we do not know what you know.
the only info we have is the info contained in this thread.
you have not put links to other threads where more discussion or info might have been given.

please read back through your initial post and see if there is anything else you can say to clarify the problem the more information you give the more help we can be.


"My VR4 is still losing coolant. Not a huge amount, but enough that you know it's definitely not right"
exactly how much is it loosing in milliliters?
Easy to check, have a know quantity of liquid in a jug say 100ml add liquid to the rad/expansion bottle, check to see what you have left in the jug. take that away from the start amount and that is exact the quantity of coolant you are loosing.

"No visible leaks anywhere."
If you have a small leak in a pipe it will not be gushing out so a leak will not be visible a leak as small as a pine hole is enough to make you loose coolant, the coolant is so hot it will evaporator before it has a chance to collect on anything and drip on the floor.
best way to check is wait for a very cold crisp morning with no wind, like it is at the moment, go out for a drive to get engine hot then have a look round the engine bay and under the car preferabley on axle stands for wisps of steam coming out from each and every hose that contains coolant. check every hose, it is not easy but it is doable, a mirror on a stick gadget is helpfull for the hoses round the back of the engine. remember the turbos are water cooled the throttle body is water heated and the pipes go into the cabin to the heater matrix there are lots of possible sources for a leak.

"Fans cut in at the right speed when they should."
How have you tested this statement and what are the switch on and off temps and what is the fan speed at a given temp.

have you replaced all the coolant hoses for new ones, i am not just talking about the two main rad hoses but all the small bore hoses that have been on the car for the last 15 years. being heated and cooled constantly and being exposed to high under bonnet temps the rubber is bound to be old and past its best.

let me try put it into perspective.
if you go ahead and do the engine swap, i will have the bad broken trashed engine off you and fit it in my car when i need a spare, i would obviously give you the scrap weight value for the engine as it is only fair for a trashed engine. i would be very very very happy with that deal.

you need to write down a list of possible causes then test for an issue, prove that the issue is not present and tick it off the list of possible problems.
you really need to be methodical and patient and test for one thing at a time and be positive that you have ruled it out completely.

i presume this is your current scenario,
the car is running fine it is not showing any other signs of a problem, apart from having to put a little bit of water in the expansion bottle once a day, once every couple of days, once a week i dont know you have not said. (which cost nothing).
so panicking is not going to solve the issue just a little time and so methodical thinking will save you a lot of money and worry.

but if you do decide to swap the engine i will have it.

[cwgt93]

the info you put in the post is not very useful. i am not having a go just trying to get all the facts to make a helpful diagnosis. we only know what you tell us, we do not know what you know.
the only info we have is the info contained in this thread.
you have not put links to other threads where more discussion or info might have been given.

please read back through your initial post and see if there is anything else you can say to clarify the problem the more information you give the more help we can be.


"My VR4 is still losing coolant. Not a huge amount, but enough that you know it's definitely not right"
exactly how much is it loosing in milliliters?
Easy to check, have a know quantity of liquid in a jug say 100ml add liquid to the rad/expansion bottle, check to see what you have left in the jug. take that away from the start amount and that is exact the quantity of coolant you are loosing.

"No visible leaks anywhere."
If you have a small leak in a pipe it will not be gushing out so a leak will not be visible a leak as small as a pine hole is enough to make you loose coolant, the coolant is so hot it will evaporator before it has a chance to collect on anything and drip on the floor.
best way to check is wait for a very cold crisp morning with no wind, like it is at the moment, go out for a drive to get engine hot then have a look round the engine bay and under the car preferabley on axle stands for wisps of steam coming out from each and every hose that contains coolant. check every hose, it is not easy but it is doable, a mirror on a stick gadget is helpfull for the hoses round the back of the engine. remember the turbos are water cooled the throttle body is water heated and the pipes go into the cabin to the heater matrix there are lots of possible sources for a leak.

"Fans cut in at the right speed when they should."
How have you tested this statement and what are the switch on and off temps and what is the fan speed at a given temp.

have you replaced all the coolant hoses for new ones, i am not just talking about the two main rad hoses but all the small bore hoses that have been on the car for the last 15 years. being heated and cooled constantly and being exposed to high under bonnet temps the rubber is bound to be old and past its best.

let me try put it into perspective.
if you go ahead and do the engine swap, i will have the bad broken trashed engine off you and fit it in my car when i need a spare, i would obviously give you the scrap weight value for the engine as it is only fair for a trashed engine. i would be very very very happy with that deal.

you need to write down a list of possible causes then test for an issue, prove that the issue is not present and tick it off the list of possible problems.
you really need to be methodical and patient and test for one thing at a time and be positive that you have ruled it out completely.

i presume this is your current scenario,
the car is running fine it is not showing any other signs of a problem, apart from having to put a little bit of water in the expansion bottle once a day, once every couple of days, once a week i dont know you have not said. (which cost nothing).
so panicking is not going to solve the issue just a little time and so methodical thinking will save you a lot of money and worry.

but if you do decide to swap the engine i will have it.
I appreciate what you're saying Dave.

I would suggest that it's losing 1 litre of coolant every 300 miles.

The problem is, I am not mechanically minded in the slightest. I have just handed it to the garage I use and said 'here, try fix this' - I wouldn't have a clue where to begin.

The car has genuinely spent more time in the garage than it has on the road so far.

I'm not panicking, I really don't think it's a huge issue but it's just an issue than is becoming very frustrating.

The car is showing zero other negative signs. Doesn't overheat, starts, stops etc. etc.

I've found out recently I'm going to be out the country for the best part of the next three years, so to that end, I'm going to have to sell this relatively soon. This is a shame as I've just bought it and chucked money at it and won't be benefitting from it unfortunately!

Anyway, that's life. What I do appreciate is that this car will be worth alot less unless this problem is rectified. The mechanic I use is an ex mitsi guy and used to own a couple of legnums, so I'd like to think it's in good hands. He's completely content it's not a head gasket /engine issue but other than a visual inspection for a leak, there's not much else he can do I guess.

Is there anything else I could get him to check/anywhere I could get him to look (that isn't in plain sight) which could be causing this issue?

I appreciate it's alot easier and recommended to have a more than basic mechanical knowledge if you're going to delve into aging performance vehicles, but that's just never been my forté unfortunately!



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[cwgt93]

Dave did a sniff test after the radiator was replaced and it came back fine. A complete engine swap would be drastic given the relatively low mileage of the current one.
Oh ok! I won't bother then. I really don't think it's a major issue. There's no other indication to suggest it's anything other than a minor leak. It's just proving very frustrating trying to locate it. Do you mind me asking why the radiator was replaced? I'm presuming it was leaking?

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[TAR]

Any mechanic worth his wage will have many ideas on how to diagnose and resolve the issue. There is nothing special about the way the VR4 keeps cool.

The radiator cap is well known for causing an issue. If you have changed it, was it an ebay special or a genuine Mitsi item?

Use a plastic bottle to catch anything driven out of the expansion tank overflow pipe to make sure you are not loosing fluid this way.

:happy:

[MarkSanne]

It might be one of the little coolant pipes that go in from the top of the engine which are sealed with O/rings. If these O-rings go bad they will start to leak ever so slightly, and I doubt it'll be visible at all with the engine temps these motors produce, leaving little fluid evidence, but still dried up green-ish or red-ish gunk should give some indication.

[cwgt93]

Any mechanic worth his wage will have many ideas on how to diagnose and resolve the issue. There is nothing special about the way the VR4 keeps cool.

The radiator cap is well known for causing an issue. If you have changed it, was it an ebay special or a genuine Mitsi item?

Use a plastic bottle to catch anything driven out of the expansion tank overflow pipe to make sure you are not loosing fluid this way.

:happy:

Judging by the fact that the expansion tank was full to the brim the one time the car did get hot I would think it's very likely that it is being lost in this manner.

The replacement radiator cap was supplied by the previous owner (giblet) and I'm sure he said it came from viamoto...


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[cwgt93]

It might be one of the little coolant pipes that go in from the top of the engine which are sealed with O/rings. If these O-rings go bad they will start to leak ever so slightly, and I doubt it'll be visible at all with the engine temps these motors produce, leaving little fluid evidence, but still dried up green-ish or red-ish gunk should give some indication.
Thanks for the input Mark, could you be a little more specific as to exactly where these pipes are? As I'll pass that on to the garage tomorrow for them to inspect...

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[MarkSanne]

Here you go :)

75120

[cwgt93]

Here you go :)

75120
Perfect, thanks

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[MarkSanne]

Not the most fun to replace I can say from experience :)

[swinks]

Has anyone ever considered a water pump? Seal between block and pump?

[Davezj]

there are lots and lots of possible leak point for cooling system.

i am sure charlie has been doing the sensible thing and making a note of all the suggestion and the water pump is another one to add to the list.

[giblet]

Oh ok! I won't bother then. I really don't think it's a major issue. There's no other indication to suggest it's anything other than a minor leak. It's just proving very frustrating trying to locate it. Do you mind me asking why the radiator was replaced? I'm presuming it was leaking?

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Yup the plastic end section cracked on the old radiator and it started leaking


Judging by the fact that the expansion tank was full to the brim the one time the car did get hot I would think it's very likely that it is being lost in this manner.

The replacement radiator cap was supplied by the previous owner (giblet) and I'm sure he said it came from viamoto...


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Yup, purchased ftom viamoto along with the thermostat

[Davezj]

here's a thought for you charlie,
get a boroscope for you phone or laptop and have a poke around where all the coolant pipes are, it is much cheaper to buy a £15 borascope (little camera) in there and have a look for leak reather than rip it all apart and check, your mechanic might have one already for just such tasks.
at japfest paul was telling me hi just picked one up for phone with the small usb connector for £8 which a bargain, i think it was a ebay purchase, why would not have one for that sort of money.

[jaspa]

at japfest paul was telling me hi just picked one up for phone with the small usb connector for £8 which a bargain, i think it was a ebay purchase, why would not have one for that sort of money.

Probably similar, I've got one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151856007953
Works really well on my Galaxy note 4, as soon as you connect up the camera it starts the app.