Newbie to the Club

[gaborbartos]

Hi Guys,

Hope you are doing great!

I am a happy owner of a 2.4 GDI all stock, as far as I know. It is a 2002 R plate, and have been driving it for little over a year now.

Sorry for starting with asking for advice straight away, but I am getting concerned about my Black Beauty. Last week driving on the M4, I noticed that my gearbox is acting weird: the power seems to be lost, and does not get translated to the wheels. I never had this in an automatic, but it is the exact same experience when releasing your clutch on a manual, but the clutch slips. So the car revs up, but the power is missing. In exchange, it guzzles petrol, half a tank for a return journey between Reading and Watford...

Since I just recently moved back to the UK from Ireland, I have no clue where to take the car for a check.

I checked the transmission fluid, the levels are fine, might be a bit high, actually. The engine also needs a regular top up of oil, however there is no leakage or blue smoke. Finally, around 2000 rpm, there is a squeaky-rattley sound coming from - possibly - the gearbox, as there is no squeak in Neutral. It is a 5 speed automatic.

I live in Watford, Herts, if you could recommend a garage in the area, it'd be great!

Thank you for your input and feedback in advance, sorry for the lengthy intro and questions!

Gabor

[Nick Mann]

/Welcome

2002 is not an R plate? R is 1997ish.

Is it a 4wd car?

[gaborbartos]

Hi Nick,

It is not a 4WD, but the plate says RG 02...

[Davezj]

i was going to say 2002 R Plate?

either

an aug 1997 to july 1998 R plate and you have not done your homework.
or
a march 2002 to aug 2002 (not an R plate)
or
a 2002 with a private plate that makes it look like an R Plate.

i presume it is an import being a legnum as they were never sold in the UK. only galant estates sold in the UK.

not many of those about.

late post, so it is an 02 plate not and R plate, is it on an irish plate as you say you have come back from ireland to the UK.

[gaborbartos]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply and the clarification. It is a UK plate not an Irish one, apparently an 02, and not an R. My mistake. I got the car here, just lived in Ireland for a year and used it over there, too.

Any advice you may have on the other parts of my post?

Many thanks!

G

[Pugme]

Hiya mate

I'm from welwyn garden

DC autos in Park Street, a fellow jdm lover, he should definitely be able to help you

Copied from Google

Unit 7, 51 Radlett Road, Frogmore, St. Albans AL2 2JX
Open today 8am–5pm
07737 598184

If you tell him Darren with the legnum recommended him, he may be nicer haha

[gaborbartos]

Fantastic, thank you, Daren!

I'll give them a buzz today.

[elnevio]

/welcome3

The rare combination of the 5-speed auto in a non-VR-4! :thumbsup: If it is indeed on an R plate, it is possible that it is a Keighley car, where back in about 2007/2008, cars that were less than 10 years old were imported on earlier plates so that they were subject to the less severe import rules in force at the time.

It is possible that the fluid is incorrect, as ATF meeting Mitsubishi SP-III spec must be used. Dexron must not be used! I would be using Amsoil Universal ATF, although it is not cheap. But it withstands a lot of abuse, much more so than Mitsi's SP-III. Also, it can 'fix' some 'broken' gearboxes by virtue of its detergent properties, stripping off some of the varnishes that can build up over time, especially where the fluid has got too hot and burnt.

Also, how have you been testing the fluid level? The correct procedure is for the engine to be warm and running, and the gearbox in Neutral. Preferably with a couple of cycles through the gears prior to putting in N (usually P > R > N > D > 1 > 2 > 1 > D > N).

It does admittedly sound like something potentially more serious, but ticking off the simple stuff first is a good place to start.

Having said that, your symptoms are a little unusual. If these gearboxes fail, they tend to just stop working for no apparent reason! Or you get noises in, for example, first second and third, but not fourth and fifth.

[Davezj]

sorry forgot to say hi and welcome to the club

[gaborbartos]

Wow, Nev, this is pure gold, thanks for the info and the history lesson! :-)

I checked the fluid level the way you described above, it seems a bit too high, i.e. slightly above the max level on the dipstick. I do not know if the other symptoms are related to the gearbox issue, I just thought to give the full picture in hope of a better diagnose. Also, the fluid is red and looks clean, but I cannot tell what brand, to be honest.

It does work reasonably well on lower speeds, actually, it changes gears earlier than it used to. For instance, switches up to 5th when in passes 30, no matter what. And also, when I accelerate, the speedo goes mental and jumps up to like 90-100 MPH, when I accelerate from, say, 55-60 on the motorway. Gear changes are smooth, reacts well to acceleration and deceleration, and tends to behave slightly better in tiptronic mode. Having said that, it still feels like there is a lag and a sloppy clutch.

Anyway, I'll give a shout to DC Auto to see if they can have a look. It needs to be MOT'd ina month anyway.

Thanks for you welcoming words once again, and the advice on the gearbox.

Cheers,

Gabor

[gaborbartos]

:2thumbsup

Thanks

[gaborbartos]

sorry forgot to say hi and welcome to the club

Thanks!

:2thumbsup

[Confused]

The smoothness of the gearbox is related to the vehicle speed sensor - if you are getting the speedo fluctuating, then this may be causing issues. There is a locking torque converter, which should engage when at a steady speed and without excess throttle position changes.

When the torque converter locks, the revs drop, and the drive from engine through to the gearbox is fixed - more like a manual. If the torque converter is not locking, then it could feel like there is slippage, which would also increase the engine speed, and use more fuel as a result!


One of the very best things you can have for one of these vehicles is a cheap VAG-COM KKL cable (less than £5 from eBay), with a very small modification, and a copy of EvoScan ($25) - and you'll need a Windows laptop. For < £25, you can have a fully featured diagnostic/logging tool, which will prove invaluable in troubleshooting issues like this!

I would like to see a log from EvoScan showing engine RPM, vehicle speed, throttle position, as well as many of the other fields available.


Oh, and welcome to the forum! We're a very friendly bunch (as you've probably seen already)!

If you're free on Saturday (and can afford the fuel usage!), then we are having a meeting in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, where there will be a lot of knowledgeable people, and many of us will have a laptop + EvoScan to be able to see what's going on with your car!

[elnevio]

Aye, speed sensor looks like a possible suspect!

[gaborbartos]

Thank you once again for the valuable input.

I have spoken to DC Cars in St. Albans, worst case scenario is torque converter, best case is a filter and fluid change. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it to Mansfield on Saturday, as I'll be dropping off the car then to DC. But thanks for the invite! If and when she gets fixed, I'll definitely make an effort to meet up with you.

In case there is an interest, I'll post some pics and the result of the repair.

Cheers,

Gabor

[gaborbartos]

Hi Guys,

As promised, I have an update on my car! I took it to DC Autos in St Albans, major thanks here for the advice Darren (Pugme)!

Danny changed the ATF and plugged the car in, but cold not get a proper scan. I think he did not have the right SW version, or something along those lines. However, he did notice that the speed sensor wires had been cut and re-joined earlier at some point, so I am quite inclined to conclude that the problem, or part of it, derives from that.

It might not be a big thing, but I am always a bit concerned when wires are just cut and soldered back, when there is a factory solution.

Do you think this could be something that is worth exploring further? Has any of you seen or heard anything about speed sensor replacement issues or workaround quick fixes that may explain the wires being cut at one point?

I would order the new part and Danny is happy enough to put it in. Before that happens, any and every feedback is welcome.

Good news is, after the servicing, the gearbox feels smoother! And she passed the MOT in a heartbeat! :-)

Thanks in advance for your input, have fab evening!

[Nick Mann]

The car will not be OBD2 compliant. Have a search for evoscan. ;)

[Davezj]

or search for 'flashy dash' diagnostics.

[elnevio]

Do you know how the ATF was changed? Unfortunately, if the contents of the sump were dropped and then refilled, that will have only changed about half of the fluid, as the other half remains in the gearbox internals. If this is the case, then the fluid will be a mix of old and new, so not great - but better than 100% old!

The best procedure is to pump it out while the engine is running (pipes by the radiator are best for this) and refill with new fluid at the same time, until the stuff coming out turns the same colour as the new ATF.

Where was the cut in the speed sensor wire?

[gaborbartos]

I need to ask DC Autos to be able to answer the questions, but I'll let you know as soon as I found that out.

Thanks

[gaborbartos]

Spoke to Danny, he did change the ATF, properly bled out the gearbox, not just the sump.

The wire was cut just about an inch below the connector, then it was re-attached. I asked Danny at DC Autos to get a quote from Mitsubishi on a factory part for a new speed sensor, just waiting on that. In case any of you here have a spare or know where to get one, please do let me know.

Cheers,

Gabor

[gaborbartos]

Hi Guys,

Sad sad news today... What I thought was a misfiring engine turned out to be terminal damage. Without going into details, I would like to get your help and/or opinion on getting a new engine.

The car is 2002 Legnum 2.4 GDi engine with a 5 gear automatic. I love the car, the chassis is great for its age, but the engine is gone.

Any and every piece of advice is more than welcome. The car is with Danny at DC Autos, St. Albans at the moment.

Thanks!

[Confused]

Are you looking for another GDI engine (which might be difficult to find!), or do you want to use this opportunity to throw in a VR-4 engine? ;)

[gaborbartos]

At this point, I'd take anything!

Jokes aside, I would consider a VR-4, as I had nothing but trouble with the GDI, but then I'd need a new gearbox, as well? Aren't I?

[Confused]

Whilst the auto box would probably bolt up (I don't think anyone has paired a VR-4 engine to a FWD automatic box yet), it would be better with a manual gearbox!


If the shell is as good as you say, then a VR-2 (as it's called) would be a great use of a good chassis!

[gaborbartos]

Just learnt that the VR-4 engine is a no-go. The engine bay on the GDIs are built in a way that there isn't enough room to get it in. It needs more room for the drive shaft, and even with front wheel drive, it would not fit.

A 2.5 V6 is a good fit though, apparently.