The practicalities of levelling up (from mild Galant to meaty Legnum)

[PJA]

Been happily trotting about in my Galant 4g63 2.0l wagon for over a year now. But an incident at the weekend has made me re-consider it's suitability for my needs.
Essentially I ended up very sideways heading downhill on grass being shoved by a towed load and nearly went through a beer tent with the Mrs and newborn daughter on board.
Coupled with the fact it seems to be more happy towing in 4th (than 5th) on the motorway, and struggles up low speed hills in 2nd gear, I'm starting to think maybe 4wd and some more grunt would be a very good idea.

Concerns :

I don't want to go through the whole rust saga again. Do Leggys rust any more than galants (I did the arches on mine and cleaned up the floor plan). Were imports less well protected, any other rust traps?

Will I be paying through the nose for servicing and chasing faults? I'm a simpler spanners and hammers type of man, electronic control units, hydraulic pumps, auto boxes, these are not my comfort zone.

Fuel economy - What am I looking at realistically around town? Sub 30 is fine, but below 20 is a bit much to stomach.

Towing - has anyone got experience of how they beahve as a tow car. I'm now towing my race car on an A frame, so it's an extra 950kgs behind, with a tendancy to "push on" as all 4 wheels are on the ground. Also, would my galant tow bar swap over to the same mountings on a Legnum?

Insurance. I'm currently paying something like 700 a year FC aged 24 with Adrian Flux. I'm happy to front a bit more each year, but for a 2.5 V6 twin turbo shall I even bother calling around to try for a sub 1k policy? How much of an issue are "imports" to most insurers?

Manual vs Auto - I like cogs I can stir. Is the tiptronic auto box a joy to behold, or added complication, a liability, and not wise for towing on? I could be waiting very long for a manual car otherwise.

Anyone in the Berkshire area willing to meet up and let me have a nosey / comparison / convert me?

The Mrs' has approved my plans to get something else. But I've made stupid assumptionson vehicular choices before and don't want to eat humble pie again.

[Confused]

I think firstly, we need to look at your circumstances which led to this incident. 4WD won't help you if you don't have any grip - ie your example of continuing straight on grass.

Is your A-frame braked? Does it apply the brakes on the attached car? As the A-frame/car combination is over 750kg, it is classed by the DVLA as a trailer, and therefore the rules regarding a trailer apply - it must be braked on all wheels that are in contact with the ground. If your A-frame is not braked, then you do not have the additional braking capacity of the trailer available to you. The same applies to every car you tow with, and should be sorted as a priority, either by replacing the A-frame with a braked one, or replacing it with a proper trailer.



I have just started towing with my auto VR-4 - both a single-axle caravan (weighing around 950kg), as well as a twin-axle car trailer with my Ford Anglia, total weight around 1400kg.

The VR-4 has a little extra weight than the non VR-4, which aids its stability a little.

The automatic gearbox is well suited to the car, and works well when towing, shifting up and down when it feels it needs to - if I feel I need a gear change, I can influence it either with my right foot, or by knocking it into tiptronic and changing manually - but I haven't felt the need to do that. Being automatic, it can ensure that the engine is always in its peak torque range - allowing the torque converter to do its job and transfer that power to the wheels.

I love the automatic gearbox, personally, after vowing years ago when I had a 1.8 Carisma with a 4 speed auto to never have another auto - I've had my VR-4 for over 7 years now...

For towing, I would suggest fitting an oil cooler to the gearbox. There is a "cooler" built into the bottom of the coolant radiator, but an additional cooler, fitted behind the passenger side fog light, for example, will help ensure that the gearbox fluid is kept in good condition. I have plumbed mine up so that it comes from the gearbox, through my cooler, then into the one in the bottom of the radiator - the theory is that this then either keeps it cool enough (by having both radiators), or during winter, warm enough, to go back into the gearbox. The ATF works best when at the desired operating temperature. When it's cold, it's thicker, so shifts a touch slower, and when too hot, doesn't have the protective properties and causes damage.


My biggest struggle when towing is to hold it back from accelerating over 60mph!! There's more than enough power to maintain 60mph up every motorway hill I have encountered, which means that I can make good progress by overtaking lorries which are slowing on hills, and to keep up with traffic and not be a nuisance on the roads!


In pure town driving, around 18-20mpg is common. On a motorway without towing, around 25mpg. When towing the car trailer, I get around 18-19mpg, the caravan around 16-18mpg (mainly due to the aerodynamic differences).

There is no "off-the-shelf" towbar for the VR-4, and the Galant estate one needs minor modifications to fit, which involves removing a small section from the bar that is bolted into the chassis on the driver's side, as there is a captive nut within the chassis rail which the AYC pump bolts to. I think there was a small corner I needed to take off from my towbar when fitting it, too, but it was a couple of years ago now and I can't remember. Once these tweaks are made, then the towbar will fit much like to the Galant.


The VR-4, whilst more complicated than the non VR-4, is very reliable, providing routine servicing and maintenance is carried out, using the correct fluids and parts. Many issues come from lack of routine servicing, or using inferior products, especially oils. This is more of an issue as the vehicle gets older and cheaper - people start to think of them as £1,500 cars rather than the £35,000 high performance cars that they are. If you're handy with a set of spanners, and can follow written instructions, then there's nothing to be afraid of - the articles library on here is fantastic, and we're a hugely friendly bunch, who will answer any and all silly questions you have - and we're often more than happy to meet up and chat or provide assistance if we're close to you!

As an advantage to you - if there's anything you can't do yourself, you're very close to Eurospec in Guildford, who are so awesome that they have their own smilie :eurospec: and know these cars very well!

As for rust - yes, they're just as susceptible to rust as UK cars, depending on if, or how, well they were treated when imported into the country - and remember many have been in the country for many years less than UK models, so might be 5-10 years behind on the tinworm front!!


I'm now 32, and have had my VR-4 for 7 years - I got it just before my 25th birthday. I've never paid more than about £700 for insurance on it, and currently pay £400, with Adrian Flux. They know what they are, and specialise in different vehicles. If you're a club member here, they'll allegedly apply a discount too! ;)


I am in an odd position with my Legnum at the moment - I now have the Anglia which is my fun car, so I don't need the capabilities of the Legnum. It's also looking tired, with a lot of rust coming through. I could scrap it and buy another, but I know I won't be happy with another VR-4, because it's not "mine", it's just a replacement. I have therefore been looking at other, more boring cars to replace it with! But now I'm towing, and know how well it does tow, I'm not sure if I want to replace it with something that's substantially less powerful! So it comes to "do I fix the rust" which means taking it off the road for a few months to do so, and the costs associated with that! It's all too complicated!

[PJA]

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply. Answers most of my questions, I had been searching on the subject of towing with various posts cropping up. Your explanation on the oil cooler routing makes perfect sense. Hopefully there are no odd fittings to overcomer and a trip to the likes of ThinkAutomotive in Isleworth would yield all the parts needed for what sounds like a relatively straight forward job.

Towing wise, you are quite right to query the towing arrangement. Infact the law states that regardless of the weight, if brakes are fitted they MUST be operational. I'm pleased to say it's a professionally built and installed arrangement that operates the vehicles brakes, so all legit.

See piccy from weekend here with aforementioned beer tent just in sight - http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/philipjandrew/Galant%20KBP/20160910_183835_zpslyh2n6um.jpg

A new set of tyres would certainly help it grip wise as it's on nearly dead Marangonis (such quality) at the back. But then we still have the distinct lack of grunt for dragging things.

I should probably get on with shaving a couple hundred kilos out of the track car but kind of struggling to let go of the notion it won't stay all road friendly and soft forever. More power to tow with seems reasonable.

I don't do masses of miles, so can live with poor MPG, but that was a bit further south than I had hoped. The Mrs car is on LPG, and I see a fair few Legnums are converted, if I get one and it's a keeper than that may be money well spent.

If you have a fuel friendly Legnum VR4 with good mechanicals, no rust and a tow bar out there, make yourself known. I could be waiting a while.

[Confused]

I'm glad you're all sorted with the towing arrangements - it seems too many people don't properly understand it! :) It's a refreshing change! I'm determined to keep my Anglia road legal and as a nice road car, and I'm adding more weight to it with seats, sound deadening and better interior panels, despite now using it for some drag racing, where the extra weight has a big impact on times! (But, it's for fun, not outright speed!)

Having good quality tyres is certainly a must on any vehicle in my opinion - it's the only thing keeping you on the road, and is the one thing to not skimp on!!


The oil pipes coming off the gearbox are just rubber, no fancy fittings. The cooler I've used came with barbs on the inlets, so a bit of rubber fuel hose, and a couple of jubilee clips, and you're away. Unless you buy something fancy that comes with AN fittings, in which case you'll spend half as much again on all the converters to allow you to plug on a bit of rubber hose!!


If I keep mine, I'm putting LPG on it when I do the work - it makes it a bit easier to swallow when it's costing you half the price per litre!! You know that from having LPG on your wife's car! ;)

I wouldn't want to tow now with less power... a Touareg V10 TDI is on my list at the moment...!

[PJA]

Yup, agreed on the tyre front, but to be fair it has Pirellis up front, which is generally the important end. I would be having the wheels refurbished for a new set of tyres (settled on Avon as my new favourite brand after fitting ZV7s to my other half's car) , but the Galant Sport 17's are seemingly notorious for getting flatspots, and I don't do much to avoid / slow up for pot holes! When they do hit the wear bars, I'll change them if I don't have me a Legnum by then.

There's a 2001 Legnum on here and eBay that I shall be hoping to view. But there is no great rush, I was chomping at the bit earlier. But logically we only have two more events to tow to this season, and then pick things up again in spring, so plenty of time to wait for the right car.

Not up on the chassis number / model codes thing, so will do some digging later. But is there a great difference from the mid / late 90's cars to the later production stuff?