Upgrades and power expectations

[FTOTWINTURBO]

Hi all hope you are well.
I am about to embark on a one off engine build for a track car but first of all there are a few questions I have.
The engine in question is the 6A13TT which I have sitting in my garage.
I have trawled the internet but can find very little that suggests these engines can make more than 320bhp in standard format and I can't find anything suggesting what can be achieved if you throw some money and serious modifications at it.
My plan for the build so far is as follows:
6A13TT
Forged internals
Polished and ported head
MLS head gaskets
Lightened flywheel\Cams
Turbo upgrade to twin TDO5's
FMIC
Stand alone ECU
Mivec Heads off an FTO(Yes I know this has only ever been done once if you go on a google search mission)
Forced induction
Straight through 3" exhaust system(no cat)


Any other suggestions greatly received.
I am hoping for 400bhp +

Thanks Guys

[Grid]

Twin TD05's for the track will give you massive lag. Better go with a modern single or twin-Garrets

[hbkuk1]

As above 05s prob not ideal 04s perhaps, FTO heads although the same are smaller valves,ports etc. Not sure the mivec would gain you anything. Cams will help I had cams in mine and bigger turbos which is the main restriction

[FTOTWINTURBO]

Great thanks for the advice so far, I didn't realise the head internals of the Mivec would be smaller. As for turbo upgrades what makes the twin Garrett option the right choice over the TD05 ? Is it the design or simply that there won't be enough exhaust gasses to spool up twin TD05's ?

[orionn2o]

Hi Stuart,

Are you doing it for novelty value over anything else? Have you got deep pockets?

Just wondered why you'd chose this route over a 4G63T engine?

[FTOTWINTURBO]

Hi Matt,
I chose the 6A13TT for a few reasons.
1. I prefer the V6 Mitsubishi engines for power delivery.
2. They sound awesome IMO
3. To do something different.
4. The 6A13TT practically drops on the Fto engine mounts.

[Nick Mann]

Richard Batty had well over 600 on a 6A13 single turbo in an FTO. With turbos 400 is possible with TD04s. It's the tiny TD03s that hold back the power.

[FTOTWINTURBO]

Thanks Nick that's what I wanted to hear !
Ah that's the guy that does the Fto drag car racing ?
Is he on here ? Or a way I can contact him to find out more ?
I see he must have changed at some point as he runs an evo lump in it now ?

[Adam.Findlay]

If you are intrested in cylinder head porting or camshafts I offer both these services, from a regrind on your stock camshafts all the way to full billet replacements. as well as valve spring or full bolt on heads loaded with springs, lifters and cams.


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as for mivec conversion, your wasting your time. its alot of cocking about. you will make better power sticking with the 6A13TT Heads.

as for the turbos side of things it would be alot cheaper to go down the route of a single turbo, the likes of a borg warner S200SX-E52 is a 550hp capable turbo which will have far better response than a pair of TD05s and for similar money. plus a single is alot easier to package and plumb up compared to large twins.

Transformance Mechanical Engieering in Australia has Pistons available. and there are a couple of off the shelf conrod optios out there (Prisn, Pauter..)

you will want to be upgrading the head studs for that sort of power level for head gasket reliablity. there are 2 options here
option 1 being the toyota 3S-GTE ARP head studs kit which is a bolt in replacement, of course you need 16 studs and the toyota kit only comes with 10 so need 2 kits. these are a M10 stud
option 2 being have a machine shop drill and rethread your block and heads to suit the M11 ARP 4G63T head stud. the larger stud provides more clamping force which is my reccomendation and I do this on all the 6A13's I build.

[FTOTWINTURBO]

hi Adam thank you for all the information it was really useful, so with the turbo you recommend what sort what brake horsepower can I hope to achieve with strengthening of the Block?
Regarding the mivec heads why would they be a bad choice as I am struggling to understand why this combination wouldn't work?

[Adam.Findlay]

hat turbo will support easilyour 400hp goal and then some. But the g99d thing about going singke tubro is if you use a T4 twin scroll flange you have an almost endless range of turbos which you can chabge to down the road instead of being stuck with an oddball Td04 or TD05 flange. Can get a 57mm S200 which is rated to 600hp. Or step up to a S300 frame which in various trims go all the way t0 850hp but albeit with more lag.

For a start the cambelt isnt l9ng enoigh because the mivec heads are taller. So you need custom pulley and tensi9ner arrangement to make the stock belt work and even then all the timing marks will be om the piss.
The mivec heads have smaller ports and smaller valves so for all the headaches of fitting them your taking a step backwards in power.
Because of the taller deck height of the 2.5 block the mivev intake doesnt fit to the heads anynore when they are fitted to the 2.5 block anf the 2.5 intake has a completly different port in the runners so doesnt match at all so you need to at least get a custom lower half intake made to suit.
Do I need to continue as to why this is a waste of time? Juat because that guy in japan did it doesntmean its a good idea

TL;DR spend half the money you would spend making mivec heads work on a decent set of cams and porting on stock heads. It'll be a better thing

[Adam.Findlay]

Pardon all the typos. Replying on my phone in a hurry

[FTOTWINTURBO]

Thanks for the information Adam , Yes you have put me off the Mivec head swap ! All I needed to hear was less power and that did it.Its good to know what power these engines can make with the right single turbo setup.
What is the maximum bhp I can push on stock internals before needing to go forged ?

[Nick Mann]

I've seen a twin td04 running 400 bhp and 450 lbft on stock internals. I'd say you are in the ballpark of wanting a proper build at those figures though.
Yes, he drag races his FTO and does indeed now run an evo lump. He swapped for the power vs cost ratio. The knowledge of 1000 bhp evo lumps is already out there. His forum name on here is Zentac but I haven't seen him on here for a while. He has a facebook page for his FTO iirc so you might get him on there.

[Layton1985]

When people swap the td03 turbos for the td04's do they need custom manifolds for the flange and do they need to change the flange on the exhaust downpipe to accept the td04 also? My friend told me to go single turbo as it would be cheaper but I can't think how it would be cheaper if you have to have both the manifolds custom made to accept a single turbo and the exhaust downpipe as well

[hbkuk1]

When people swap the td03 turbos for the td04's do they need custom manifolds for the flange and do they need to change the flange on the exhaust downpipe to accept the td04 also? My friend told me to go single turbo as it would be cheaper but I can't think how it would be cheaper if you have to have both the manifolds custom made to accept a single turbo and the exhaust downpipe as well

Yes to all, for 04s or single means custom everything

[Nick Mann]

With a single you can use stock manifolds, although I think some have used a rear manifold at the front so the pipework exits the manifold upwards.

[FTOTWINTURBO]

Thanks all for your advice.
Twin TD04 and 400bhp sounds good. I have been looking at a big single turbo conversion.
I guess the real question is what bhp should I be aiming for in a fwd car doing time attack? If I go big I.e the 500bhp realms then am I going to get the power down ? And is it going to have hurendous turbo lag ? Meaning Twin TD04 and 400bhp would be suffucient.

[Nick Mann]

Having been in a VR2 (a FWD Galant with a VR4 engine) stick withstock first and then work out the requirements. I would imagine brakes, suspension and oil cooling will be higher up the list than more power.

[mitsiboyblue]

Having been in a VR2 (a FWD Galant with a VR4 engine) stick withstock first and then work out the requirements. I would imagine brakes, suspension and oil cooling will be higher up the list than more power.Has anyone tried Hybriding the stock Td03's as thats my project right now. Turbo specialist im using says he can get a larger 6mm compressor wheel inside so im excited but i must get it finished, remapped , track tested a couple times before the end of this season.
Any advise out there greatly appreciated guys
Dave O

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[galantnight]

Try https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?75002-converting-our-turbos-to-td03-5 :)

[mitsiboyblue]

Try https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?75002-converting-our-turbos-to-td03-5 :)Thanks for the link i will check it out
Dave O

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