Innovate

[galantnight]

Hi all,
Anyone get the E8 error code come upon there gauge ?
And if so what did you do I see that you can get a extension for the sensor so it doesn’t over heat but doesn’t seam to last.
I think I get a new sensor to try it and if that goes I can send it back and get another.
Any advice welcomed :)

[galantnight]

Just to add to this when i re started the car it did't want to idle, could this be a air leak ?
I have cleaned the stepper motor before and it was fine.
I also have just changed the temp sensor thinking this was a problem but it could be just the 02 sensor give variable readings.
I did notice that the BOV didn't seam to be working but after giving it a good rev it sounds like it is ok now, going to check all pipe work for air leaks
have got a bung to try out,but i think the weather will be too wet this weekend so maybe during the week.

Also i get the engine knock light when i try and give it WOT, it is better after i changed temp sensor but still there.

Any thoughts on this ???

[TAR]

I'm getting an E8 error now on mine. I suspect that mine is a faulty sensor as its not well fitted in the exhaust. Car hasn't been used for a while.

You could try a recalibration.

The calibration procedure requires that the oxygen sensor be in free air, this
means removed from the exhaust system completely.
1. With the sensor disconnected, apply power to the MTX-L.
When power is applied, all three digits will light up and the needle bar will
sweep once through all LEDs. Then the status light will turn red and the
numeric display will read “E2”. This is an error code, indicating that no
sensor is detected. Leave unit powered on for minimum 30 seconds.
2. Power down the MTX-L and attach the oxygen sensor using the
cable provided. When making these connections, make sure they
are fully seated and locked. Again, make sure that the sensor is in
free air (not in the exhaust).
3. Power up the MTX-L.
Again, the display should ‘sweep’, but instead of an error, the display will
display “Htr”. This indicates that the sensor is being heated up to
operating temperature. After 30-60 seconds, the display will switch from
“Htr” to “CAL”, indicating that the sensor is being calibrated. A few
seconds later, your MTX-L will begin displaying AFR. Since the sensor is
in free air, the gauge will default to the upper limit of 22.4.
The calibration procedure has completed and the system is now ready
for use.
Important: You can disconnect and reconnect the sensor and sensor
cable for installation without losing your calibration. However, if you
power up the MTX-L without a sensor connected, your calibration will
be reset (see step #1 above).
:happy:

[galantnight]

Thanks Tim I try that and give it a clean

[Davezj]

You can leave the sensor in the exhaust. When you do the calibration.
But you have to ensure the car has been left at least over night with out being started. Even if you turn it over and it does not fire you will have to leave it another night.
You must ensure any trace of exhaust gases has dissipated and have free air around the sensor in the exhaust.
This is how I always calibrated my mtx-l.

I know the innovate manual says remove the sensor from the exhaust but you don't have to.
You should recalibrate the innovate wideband at least every 6 months.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[dazjb]

These sensors don't seem to last very long. I'm using the newer LSU 4.9 sensor on my MTX-L and got the dreaded E8 code after about 14 months and around 3000 miles of driving.

Hoping the replacement lasts a bit longer although I'm sure I've read it's the controller (gauge) that causes the failures

[chris_dono]

I've had the E8 error a couple of times, always goes away after cooling down though. I guessed it was a dodgy sensor, but I've not got round to changing it yet

[galantnight]

You can leave the sensor in the exhaust. When you do the calibration.
But you have to ensure the car has been left at least over night with out being started. Even if you turn it over and it does not fire you will have to leave it another night.
You must ensure any trace of exhaust gases has dissipated and have free air around the sensor in the exhaust.
This is how I always calibrated my mtx-l.

I know the innovate manual says remove the sensor from the exhaust but you don't have to.
You should recalibrate the innovate wideband at least every 6 months.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Thanks Dave, I have done it like this but will try and take it out to see if it makes a difference.

[galantnight]

These sensors don't seem to last very long. I'm using the newer LSU 4.9 sensor on my MTX-L and got the dreaded E8 code after about 14 months and around 3000 miles of driving.

Hoping the replacement lasts a bit longer although I'm sure I've read it's the controller (gauge) that causes the failures

Darren when yours went wrong did it give you incorrect readings or ones that showed you that you was running lean ?

[galantnight]

I've had the E8 error a couple of times, always goes away after cooling down though. I guessed it was a dodgy sensor, but I've not got round to changing it yet

So it is still giving you the correct readings ?

[chris_dono]

Yeah it is now, I calibrated it a couple of months ago


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[dazjb]

Darren when yours went wrong did it give you incorrect readings or ones that showed you that you was running lean ?Not that I saw. It just decided it had enough one day and constantly showed the E8 code

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[galantnight]

Thanks all I look into it and post up what I find.

[galantnight]

So this afternoon I took out sensor and gave it a clean and then calibrated it free air, I also tested for air leaks in the pipes and all was good as far as I can see.
I then started car and at first it was showing 19/20 for a bit and I nearly turned off but as I went to do it, it started to show 14.6 to 15.1 which is what it would show normally.
Am I right in saying that if I log with Evoscan the AFR will it just show me the same as the innovate gauge? If yes how can I check to see if the AFR readings I am getting are correct ?
MTIA
John

[TAR]

There isn't an easy way to check your gauge is accurate other than with another one. A friendly garage may be prepared to put it on there exhaust gas analyser for you.
Evoscan will only read the output from the wideband or from the narrowband but that isn't going to tell you anything other than your gauge is now.
:happy:

[galantnight]

Thanks Tim that’s what I thought but wanted to check, I have to go to a garage and get it checked :)

[Davezj]

You could try and log the factory narrow band O2, and the innovate narrow band output. And see if they match.

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[galantnight]

Thanks Dave I keep that in mind if I can’t do it another way.

[Davezj]

Oh and if you don't want to use a laptop to calibrate the sensor.
1. Disconnect sensor from gauge.
2. Ignition to acc, not start. Error displayed. Ignition to off.
3. Connect sensor, ignition to acc not start. Gauge goes into CAL automatically. Once complete, ingition off.
4. Start car normally with calibrated gauge.

If you do this first thing in morning no need to take sensor out of exhaust.

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[galantnight]

Thanks Dave, I have done it both ways now and I think the sensor is the problem but want to check it before I get a new one. Just incase it’s the gauge that is wrong :(

[Davezj]

Always good to check and double check before splashing the cash.

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[jaspa]

John, Do you think you could get to Ashtead on Monday? or if not, Burgh Heath any day from Tuesday?

I've just taken delivery of an MTX-L (model is quoted as 3844 if that makes a difference?) but won't be fitting it until Confused's garage day at the earliest. You're welcome to try it.

Stuart

[galantnight]

Thanks Stuart that would be great , I see if I can get it tested at a friend of mine sons garage before but if not I’ll be in touch and see about Monday :)

[galantnight]

jaspa / Stuart pm sent .

[galantnight]

Have cleaned and recalibrated in free air sensor and gone for a drive car drives ok but once I give it a bit more throttle I get the E8 code come back.
I turn off and let it cool down and when I start up I am getting 22 showing at first but then it starts showing me readings that are a bit lean, I have now ordered a new sensor and will have the AFR tested just to make sure it is it but I think it is the sensor.

On another note I think running to rich also affects the sensor as I have read in other posts.

[galantnight]

Just heard back from innovate and they say sensor is on it’s way out so needs replacing :(

[galantnight]

Been nearly two years since I replaced the sensor but now I am getting 22.4 showing all the time have done a recalibrate and run engine but still the same, didn’t run engine for to long, how long should it take to start giving me a reading ?
Any idea to try before I contact innovate ??

[galantnight]

I replaced my sensor and it all worked fine I got the cheaper one this time it says it is guaranteed so will see

[MYKEY]

galantnight How's the latest sensor holding up ?
I've been having lean running issues on and off for a while now. Where did you buy the sensor from ??

[galantnight]

Hi Michael,
I have replaced it again since then 3 times in fact as the ones I got failed and they were replaced, I then got one from a different supplier on EBay and it seems to be ok but saying that I haven’t started car up for about 2 months now so hopefully this weekend I will get to start her up and running as show season starts next month :)

[MYKEY]

galantnight Bloody hell, that's bad...i take it Innovate are not interested in the problem ?

[Confused]

Innovate wideband controllers are notorious for killing sensors - they have an extremely aggressive sensor warm-up strategy, and additionally it is very easy to "thermally shock" them, by sitting with the ignition on - heating the sensor - before starting the engine.

[galantnight]

galantnight Bloody hell, that's bad...i take it Innovate are not interested in the problem ?
Said it was not something that they could help with apart from the usual advice

[galantnight]

Innovate wideband controllers are notorious for killing sensors - they have an extremely aggressive sensor warm-up strategy, and additionally it is very easy to "thermally shock" them, by sitting with the ignition on - heating the sensor - before starting the engine.
My just failed and the replacement ones that I got didn’t last a few start ups so I changed it to a different supplier and hopefully now ok

[Confused]

They don't "just fail" - Innovate controllers do kill them.

I picked a PLX controller and sensor out of a box and threw it in a car the other day - it fired straight into life and worked perfectly - with the stock narrowband O2 sensor still in place, the PLX swung from 14.5 to 14.9 - right what it should do to maintain stoich fuelling!


Be careful when buying replacement sensors - there are also a HUGE number of fakes out there.

Basically, if you're paying less than £90 for it, it's a fake.

I got my last few now from Brands Hatch Performance, as I know they're genuine. Hopefully won't need to buy any more for a while now that I know not to sit with the ignition on then start the car!

[MYKEY]

What options would there be for a re-mapped car other than shelling out for a new sensor every couple of years GARRY Mine has been running lean so i calibrated it, worked fine for a week or so, now is jumping around 17~20

[Confused]

Do you ever turn the ignition on, then wait until starting the car? Or even turn the ignition on, don't start the car, go away for 5 minutes then come back and start the car up?

Other than that, all I can probably suggest is a different controller - a number of people here have been successfully using the PLX SM-AFR for a number of years, and if you want the gauge, a DM-6.

I have been using an LD Performance (https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wideband-controller-for-bosch-lsu49/) controller on my Anglia (although, I have killed sensors due to sitting with the ignition on, something I have now fixed in my Link ECU by only allowing it to power on 30 seconds after the engine has started).

I have also heard good things about the 14Point7 (https://www.14point7.com/pages/products) products, although I have not personally used them. I am not sure of how good the longevity of the newer AEM controllers are, but I do see them in use a bit due to the CANBUS output, which modern aftermarket ECUs use rather than an analogue input.

Or, you stick with the Innovate, and treat the sensors as consumable items, and regularly change them, like you would your oil.

[MYKEY]

Guilty....I've often sat and waited until its heated up before starting. The LD performance looks good and at £139 not to expensive either :)

[Confused]

That'll be what's killing them then!

[MYKEY]

If i was to change the Innovate for the LD Performance would there be anything else i need to do or would it just be a straight swap ?

[Confused]

Should be pretty much the same - power, ground, and 0-1v analogue output (assuming you've replaced the stock narrowband sensor) into the ECU.

[MYKEY]

Cheers Garry, i only asked as i wasn't sure if it affected Jason's re-map in anyway. I'll just take the feed from the existing Innovate connections :thumbsup:

[Confused]

Same applies still even with another controller - don't sit with ignition on!

[elnevio]

The LD Performance system has a better warm up process, I think! Which you activate yourself if you install the system permanently. Something like grounding the display output for three seconds.

I have the display too, which is installed in the ashtray, and can therefore also be hidden away, as the digits are quite big and bright!!

83408

[MYKEY]

Love the ashtray location Nev (in that very clean interior :2thumbsup) I'm definitely going with LD Performance.

[MYKEY]

Received my LD wideband set up yesterday as i intend to use the sensor in place of my original one, is there any reason why i can't use the power and ground from the ECU that it used ?
That would leave my cigarette lighter free for the power to the display unit

[MYKEY]

Can anybody tell me which of the black wires is the negative ? i don't want to damage the ecu when i connect the LD sensor up and I'm **** at auto electrics..Thank you :D 83564