Black Black Black !!

[Wodjno]

Ok . so there i was just out checking my fluids (car)..

Got to the oil and OMG .. It is black as the ace of spades ..
Now my last service was done at the Mitsy dealer and i checked the oil after and it was as pure as pure can be ..

I have since only done 2486 miles .. :inquisiti .. Now i must admit i do drive the car very very hard and not just occasionally .. BUT .. BUT .. Could my turbo's cook my oil Oh so quickly ... :inquisiti

Or is there a more serious underlying problem .. /help

Your thoughts please .. :o

[Spirit]

I don't think you have much to worry about mate - the VR4's that I know seem to turn the oil VERY black very quickly ! I change mine every 3000 miles roughly and it's always like that

[Wodjno]

I don't think you have much to worry about mate - the VR4's that I know seem to turn the oil VERY black very quickly ! I change mine every 3000 miles roughly and it's always like that

Cheers Pete .. I hope your right .. Gonna change oil Tommorow ..

Does yours get a bit smokey in the morn when it's cold when the oils like this .. ??

[Wodjno]

Cheers Pete .. I hope your right .. Gonna change oil Tommorow ..

Does yours get a bit smokey in the morn when it's cold when the oils like this .. ??

Probably i should be putting an Oil Cooler B4 new Dampers .. ? And new exhaust ??

[SGHOM]

Does yours get a bit smokey in the morn when it's cold when the oils like this .. ??
A bit of smoke when the cars been stood for a while is normal, nothing to worry about. but if it did it all the time ?? :embarasse /help
my car is running a bit rich at the moment, [ white smoke from exhaust & a distinctive smell of petrol ]
I'm going to book it in to Nobles soon, to up the boost & remap again, ready for Japshow in June. !! :evil2: If all goes to plan, I'm aiming for a mid 12s run. /yes /yes

[Wodjno]

A bit of smoke when the cars been stood for a while is normal, nothing to worry about. but if it did it all the time ??

Well what do you mean by all the time . :inquisiti

It does it every morning after been stood for 12 hours ..

Clears itself after 5mins or so .. Must admit i don't often let the oil cool the turbo's down enuff b4 switching off .. And i suppose now thinking about it .... If the oil is sitting in the Turbo pipes while there still at 98697849487degree Kelvin :rolleyes4 .. then this might be part of that problem /help

.. Does anyone run a turbo timer on CVR4 or do you just take it easy when you know your getting close to switching off ??

[Spirit]

Polabear runs a turbo timer on his.

I personally just take it easy for the last mile or so and then sit there with the engine ticking over for at least 30s to 60s once I stop

My old VR4 started to develop signs of smoke and was provisionally diagnosed as dry valve stems - but the current owner has not had it get any worse than when I sold it to him.

[Wodjno]

Polabear runs a turbo timer on his..

Always been abit wary of Turbo timers .. It seems a bit strange to walk of and lock your car and to know that your car is still running :uhoh2:


My old VR4 started to develop signs of smoke and was provisionally diagnosed as dry valve stems - but the current owner has not had it get any worse than when I sold it to him.

What is this caused by :stop: .. Uh Oh Rewind .. Just typ :uhoh: ed and then thought .. Obviously must be due to lack of oil circulating to service the valves .. Some kind of blockage maybe ?? :inquisiti

[wirdy]

WODJ - if you're driving like you do then you seriously need to invest in some fully synthetic next time. I drive mine how it should be, but have never had oil go that black, just darker brown. Sounds like you're cooking it.

Let it idle or buy a turbo timer - they're not much on fleaBay, or you'll have wirdy's turbo police calling on you /grr :-policema /grr

[Spirit]

WODJ - if you're driving like you do then you seriously need to invest in some fully synthetic next time. I drive mine how it should be, but have never had oil go that black, just darker brown. Sounds like you're cooking it.



I have always used fully synthetic and always allow time to let it cool and mine is always black - and I have seen Sean's too and his was exactly the same and he runs a turbo timer ?

[psbarham]

the only way you will cure the black oil is to flush the engine right out with engine flush and loads of oil changes (every 250 miles) on the old cossie engines it wasn't unusual for the oil to go black after running the engine up after a oil change . as for the smoke is it white or blue , white smoke is generally just steam , whilst blue means /help

[Physician]

1] My oil gets black very quickly and I use fully synthetic and generally idle for 30 secs before switching off. I change every 3000/4000 miles.

2] I also get white smoking at first start up - noticeable in cooler weather .......... and this in itself is indicative of steam as mentioned.

So, as a few of us have similar technical symptoms Wodj I would say all is OK.

[Sulli]

Try using Proper Fully Synth Ester based oil - Motul 300V, or Silkolene pro S, they will sort out the black oil issue.
Not all Fully Syths are created equal you see.
I ran a medium quality semi-synth in my car to flush it, for a week - almost clear when it went in, a week later and maybe a couple of hundred miles - black.

Put in Silkolene Pro S, 2000 miles later, still light coloured :D

[AllBeItMine]

okay - if the oil is turning black too fast. chances are it maybe caused by you giving it the herbs then turning it of and walking away. the oil in the turbos will cook and turn nasty. contaminating the rest of the oil.

secondly - smoke. its not as bad as you think. if you ever get the chance, take a look inside your intercooler or intake pipes leading up to the intake. it will be pretty oily in there. A good oil overflow tank and plugging the breather into it and plugging up the intake hole will sort this.

[Wodjno]

take a look inside your intercooler or intake pipes leading up to the intake. it will be pretty oily in there. A good oil overflow tank and plugging the breather into it and plugging up the intake hole will sort this.

Aha .. My intercooler pipes are as you say quite oily .. first time i saw this i thought it was a problem .But discussed it on this forum (think it was with Spirit) and he assured me a little oil in these pipes is normal ..

If your taking away this excess oil ,by means of a catch tank ,isn't it going to cause problems else where .. thru lack of lubrication ??

[wirdy]

the only way you will cure the black oil is to flush the engine right out with engine flush and loads of oil changes (every 250 miles) on the old cossie engines it wasn't unusual for the oil to go black after running the engine up after a oil change . as for the smoke is it white or blue , white smoke is generally just steam , whilst blue means /help

I guess that's why my oil stays lovely & clear right until change time. It's had fully synth since I've owned it, along with regular flushes with supermarket multigrade and engine flush fluid.

I don't think I'd be too happy thinking about all that black gunk going through my turbo bearings.....if I had a engine that hadn't been flushed properly. Empirically, it doesn't seem to do the turbo's any harm though - you don't hear of many failures on these forums, so it's a gut-feeling thing.

[wirdy]

Aha .. My intercooler pipes are as you say quite oily .. first time i saw this i thought it was a problem .But discussed it on this forum (think it was with Spirit) and he assured me a little oil in these pipes is normal ..

If your taking away this excess oil ,by means of a catch tank ,isn't it going to cause problems else where .. thru lack of lubrication ??

There's nothing in the air inlet path that needs lubrication by oil mist, it's just a covenient way to get round the emissions rules and is also fine mist from the turbo bearings. Over time it gums up everything and keeps dealers in work by fixing poor running problems on customers cars with a quick clean of the throttle body.

It'll make your intercooler MORE efficient to keep it clear of oil. If there's loads of oil then you may have a fair bit of clearance on your turbo sleeve bearings - not a great problem if you use good oil & change it before it gets black.

[Nick Mann]

Mine steams for the first few minutes every morning. I hope its not a problem! Definitely white, not blue.

The previous owner fitted a turbo timer on mine, and it has a few security features that should prevent a thief using it to his advantage. I leave it set at one minute.

I have done about 2500 since my last oil change - I will check and let you know!

[wirdy]

I have done about 2500 since my last oil change - I will check and let you know!

Tell me you've checked your oil in the last 2500 miles Nick, please. :inquisiti :rolleyes4

[nick-f1]

I change my oil about every 3000 mls and flush (wynns) and mine does NOT go black just a darker brown. Checked my level today ( its done about 1500mls since change) and its still upto the mark and light brown, so dont know about this black... if it was a diesel yes but petrol?????
I get white smoke when cold that lasts for several minutes.

Nick

[wirdy]

Seems like we have a clear watershed here.

Perhaps some brands are breaking down far too easily with the heat that our motors run at - remember the oil is worked VERY hard to cool a quite complex engine and two exceedingly hot turbo's.

All you chaps who get black oil could experiment with a couple of full flushes next time and a refill with an oil that stays in grade.

I'll start the list off with the two that I've used that don't go black:-

1. Castrol RS 0W50 (fully Synthetic).
2. Halfords 5W40 (fully Synthetic)

[Spirit]

Happy to give it a whirl mate - I am due another change in a few hundred miles so I will make a mental note to use one of the above for a change :thumbsup: - of course once I have flushed it too.

[Nick Mann]

I used the cheapest fully synth 5w40 I could find and it is not black after 2500 miles. Darker than it was when it went in, though!

Nigel - I have checked, after about 1000 miles, but not since! I have done almost 1000 miles in the last 2 weeks!

[Wodjno]

Just found a Web Page stating the following ..

"(we recommend Halfords 5W40 - it is a re-badged version of the official Caterham oil - 'Comma 5W40')"

[Spirit]

I am pretty sure it's Comma that AP use when they do mine....will have to double check

[wirdy]

I am pretty sure it's Comma that AP use when they do mine....will have to double check

Yours shouldn't go that black then M8. What oil did Simon use?.

Most opinion out there is that Halfords full synth / Comma Syner-G(?) & Esso Ultron are essentially the same product. Who really knows. I can only go on how the oil performs and what it looks like, feels like and smells at drain time.

A bit of contradiction from some ex-Halfords employees though- some say it's Comma & some say it's Esso Ultron. Either way they're both good oils and although the Comma oil is cheaper than Halfords, it can't beat the BOGOF offer that was on in March 2004 when I bought my 8 gallons. /yes

[nick-f1]

Yep Nige I use halfords too! Bonus is that it still comes in 5ltr bottles and not four like mobil one!

[Wodjno]

Is this ang good .. and whats it like for price against the Halford oil (comma) ??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72205&item=7963646950&rd=1&tc=photo

[wirdy]

You'll pay £33-£38 for Castrol RS & Mobil 1, so this looks a good deal.

i'd have some at that price (especially with free P&P) if I didn't have loads of Hafords oil in the garage already.

[Wodjno]

You'll pay £33-£38 for Castrol RS & Mobil 1, so this looks a good deal.

i'd have some at that price (especially with free P&P) if I didn't have loads of Hafords oil in the garage already.

Thanx Wirdy .

Have just purchased some of the above .. And saved myself a few PENNYS >>

Cheers
WODJ :thumbsup:

[Sulli]

I see this issue as having two choices:
1. Change your oil every 3k miles or so, with a medium? quality 5w40 fully synthetic oil - Halfords, Comma, etc
2. As above but with a high quality fully synthetic Ester/PAO based oil, like Silkolene Pro S, or Motul 300V.

For normal use, I guess either are adequate, but with the temps these engines run at, it may be safer to go for the quality stuff. This will however cost a little more.
I got 10 litres (2x5ltrs) of Silkolene Pro S 5w40 for £65, inc. delivery to my door, so it's not going to break the bank, and will last me 6-8k miles.

I know what my choice is, but I may be playing it a little to safe and pampering the car more than I need.

[wirdy]

Thanx Wirdy .

Have just purchased some of the above .. And saved myself a few PENNYS >>

Cheers
WODJ :thumbsup:

You actually won't get any better, unless you're into monograde racing oils that are totally impractical for a road car.

This stuff is API SL - the current benchmark for fully synth multigrades :thumbsup:

[Polabear]

Mine steams for the first few minutes every morning. I hope its not a problem! Definitely white, not blue.


Ok, All cars fitted with cats will produce quite high condensate emissions until the cat is at correct operating temperature, De-Catted cars will (steam) like a bitch for quite a time longer.. Nick you don't have a problem :thumbsup:

[Polabear]

Just found a Web Page stating the following ..

"(we recommend Halfords 5W40 - it is a re-badged version of the official Caterham oil - 'Comma 5W40')"

Intersting, the blurb on the back of my Halfrauds synthetic oil says manufactured by ESSO under licence for Halfords.....
:huh2:

[Wodjno]

You actually won't get any better, unless you're into monograde racing oils that are totally impractical for a road car.

This stuff is API SL - the current benchmark for fully synth multigrades :thumbsup:


Thats even better value then .. /yes He still has a few left and i e-mailed him to see what else he had and he told me he had some more oil coming but quite wot it was yet he wasn't sure .. ? So keep an i out for that seller .. ! :thumbsup:

[jalford]

The last few days the motor has been a bit noisy at startup but only for a few seconds. Making a bit of a slapping sound. Oil is rather dark. :undecided

Car should be going into Mitsubishi for an oil and filter change on Monday. They confirmed they would use fully synthetic but I'm don't know the brand or grade.

I was quoted £124.29. :greedy: Does this sound right?

I really must learn to do this sort of thing myself (if it was a computer I'd have no problem). Lots of great advice here which should help me out. Keep it up :thumbsup:

[Paul Beazer]

Tell me you've checked your oil in the last 2500 miles Nick, please. :inquisiti :rolleyes4

Nick has a habit of not checking hisoil, dont you nick!!! :inquisiti

[Nick Mann]

:embarasse

Who, me?

[wirdy]

Car should be going into Mitsubishi for an oil and filter change on Monday. They confirmed they would use fully synthetic but I'm don't know the brand or grade.

I was quoted £124.29. :greedy: Does this sound right?

Errrr.......Did you notice a horse tied up outside somewhere & did the guy who quoted you this have a mask on at the time??

Do a search for the service sheet (it's somewhere on the site - .pdf IIRC) you'll see what they do for a interim (oil) service - if that's what the quote is for.

ASK WHAT OIL THEY'RE PUTTING IN- AND ASK TO BE SHOWN THE BARREL/ CONTAINER THAT IT'S IN...........I'm not saying all garages are alike but many will just put in the standard semi-synth that sits in a big tank in the corner of the workshop ( even if they charge for fully-synth)- how would you know until it's too late anyway?

/now I remember why I do stuff myself.
/Am I just too suspicious of garages?? (I may need to psycho-analyse this character trait of mine)

[Kieran]

I was quoted £124.29. :greedy: Does this sound right?

Jesus, is this garage on top of a very steep hill or something?!?!

[Trow]

I pay 70 dollars for mobil 1 (25-30 pound) and my local garage does oil/filter change cleans my air filter tops up my washer fluid and cleans my tyres for 20 dollars (7 pound) can't be bad really

[jalford]

Errrr.......Did you notice a horse tied up outside somewhere & did the guy who quoted you this have a mask on at the time??

Do a search for the service sheet (it's somewhere on the site - .pdf IIRC) you'll see what they do for a interim (oil) service - if that's what the quote is for.

ASK WHAT OIL THEY'RE PUTTING IN- AND ASK TO BE SHOWN THE BARREL/ CONTAINER THAT IT'S IN...........I'm not saying all garages are alike but many will just put in the standard semi-synth that sits in a big tank in the corner of the workshop ( even if they charge for fully-synth)- how would you know until it's too late anyway?

/now I remember why I do stuff myself.
/Am I just too suspicious of garages?? (I may need to psycho-analyse this character trait of mine)
Unfortunately the car is being picked up from work so I won't get to meet and greet and crew. It's going to Chris Variava in Derby and they seem to know what they're talking about. I think BDA has used these guys.
Seems the price they gave me for the oil/filter change also included the total labour for doing the transmission and ayc fluids aswell. Not so bad then.
Out of interest they used Castrol SLX 0w-30.

[wirdy]

Castrol SLX is good /yes /yes . It's their GTX Magnatec that ain't :leer: :leer: