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zentac
02-04-2005, 05:15 PM
For anyone who is interested MAGNECOR do a set of HT leads part number 60109 - "Mitsubishi FTO (GR) V6 (Non-MiVec Quadcam) - IMPORT" I bought the 8mm Electosports 80 Ignition Cables from Camskill (http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m3b61s9p1293) and they fit and work a treat

http://www.camskill.co.uk/smsimg/61/1293gr_magnecor_leads.jpg

Kieran
02-04-2005, 05:50 PM
Hey, if they're the cables, it looks like they'll fit the V6-24 as well....

Wodjno
02-04-2005, 06:15 PM
3 Cylinder engines .. :inquisiti

They must be a bit Pokey .. :evil2: :smug:

zentac
02-04-2005, 06:37 PM
Hey, if they're the cables, it looks like they'll fit the V6-24 as well....

Are you going on the part number there Kierran or just the look? Have to be carfull as they could be a different length. But Im sure camskill will send you a kit and give you a refund if they dont fit.

Kieran
02-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Are you going on the part number there Kierran or just the look? Have to be carfull as they could be a different length. But Im sure camskill will send you a kit and give you a refund if they dont fit.

I'm going on the look. The V6-24 has an electronic 'Dizzy' on one end of the block that feeds all 6 plugs. It doesn't use individual coils like the VR-4 and the FTO MIVEC.

Paul Beazer
02-04-2005, 08:02 PM
I'm going on the look. The V6-24 has an electronic 'Dizzy' on one end of the block that feeds all 6 plugs. It doesn't use individual coils like the VR-4 and the FTO MIVEC.

Dont the V6-24 leads have a right angle at the dizzy end? Mine do!!

Kieran
02-04-2005, 09:53 PM
Dont the V6-24 leads have a right angle at the dizzy end? Mine do!!

Oh, phooey!! /wall I forgot about that! /dunce /dunce

Having had a closer look, the coils on the 2.0 V6 are all clustered on one end of the cylinder banks, aren't they, like in the 7G Galant V6-24...

I may still get on the blower to Camskills and see if they'll send me a set to check... :thinking:

wirdy
03-04-2005, 12:04 AM
3 Cylinder engines .. :inquisiti

They must be a bit Pokey .. :evil2: :smug:

Didn't you know that's Richards next project......a couple of Daihatsu GTti engines shoehorned under the bonnet. :rolleyes4 :rolleyes4

Axeboy
29-03-2006, 03:00 PM
yes, I am an idiot.

I ordered these and got them with 3 leads....

Me, being a bit 'Timmy', thought No! I need 6! Ordered another 3.. DOH!


Anyways, camskill called and said they have a VR4 specific kit now and I should take that.... but I explained that the 2.0 v6 non-mivec kit fits perfectly. They also explained I only need 3... and i feel a tad stupid now /pan

They were very helpful aswell... free oil filter for me too! I think they felt sorry for me!

Anyways... they asked me to find out if the FTO leads fit perfectly or if they can be improved (length etc). If so, they will ask magnecor to adjust for a better fit.

/pan
/help

zentac
29-03-2006, 10:18 PM
Ive already told them they need to be a little longer.

Axeboy
29-03-2006, 10:20 PM
Ahh good man.

:)

Muppsy
23-11-2006, 08:59 PM
Heh, type that part number into google.co.nz, hit search, and you get a big fat zero. Go world-wide and get about 3 pages of UK based sites.

Just sent an email to camskill to see if they can put a set on the boat. The only other set of decent HT leads I have been able to find in NZ is a set of 10.5mm something or other on Trademe.

I've been having misfiring problems under load, and has now started detonating. Can hear that thud like the backfiring through carbies on old cars, and a plume of white smoke when this happens.

Have changed the coil packs (with packs from my old car - knew they were fine), and the front bank plugs. Am now going the whole hog with some Densos and HT leads(if I can find some HT leads).

If any Kiwis have got links to a seller here, let me know. Even an Ebay seller would be good. If I'm spending the money, I don't want OEM leads.

Cheers
Aaron

Eurospec
24-11-2006, 11:38 AM
Has anyone tried MSD ignition components?

I really rate these for quality. Try meauring the number of ohms per foot on a std lead, a magnecore and an MSD. You'll be shocked.

also another little product which i really love for the big output turbo guys is an HKS DLI. Really helps to stop spark blow out so you can keep decent plug gaps so not having sketchy idle issues from the small spark.

We're not a dealer for either part, i just thought i'd mention them because i rate both products.

Cheers,

Ben.

Kieran
24-11-2006, 11:46 AM
Has anyone tried MSD ignition components?

I really rate these for quality. Try meauring the number of ohms per foot on a std lead, a magnecore and an MSD. You'll be shocked.

I want to - I just need to work out what I need. Straight boots for the plug end, like the 3000GT, but the coil ends are straight too, not angled. But yes, The Magna****e is going in the bin ASAP, as I've said here:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197069&postcount=1

bradc
24-11-2006, 07:56 PM
I've heard about HKS DLI's before, people seem impressed with them, but I don't quite understand what they do, or when you need them. Based on Kierans findings we should be going with IK24's or maybe 27's, but is the DLI really needed, even on a modified VR-4, or is it only important if you are doing things like turbo upgrades?

Kieran
25-11-2006, 11:15 AM
I think Valmes was looking at the DLi, but found that it wouldn't fit our engines unless we chop wiring.

MunkyWrench
26-11-2006, 08:31 AM
new zealand distributor of magnecor products http://www.stradacorsa.co.nz/

What part no do I need for the legnum vr4?

MunkyWrench
26-11-2006, 08:47 AM
yes, I am an idiot.

I ordered these and got them with 3 leads....

Me, being a bit 'Timmy', thought No! I need 6! Ordered another 3.. DOH!


Anyways, camskill called and said they have a VR4 specific kit now and I should take that.... but I explained that the 2.0 v6 non-mivec kit fits perfectly. They also explained I only need 3... and i feel a tad stupid now /pan

They were very helpful aswell... free oil filter for me too! I think they felt sorry for me!

Anyways... they asked me to find out if the FTO leads fit perfectly or if they can be improved (length etc). If so, they will ask magnecor to adjust for a better fit.

/pan
/help

could you get the information on that vr4 specific kit?
magnecor?

Eurospec
27-11-2006, 09:54 AM
I think Valmes was looking at the DLi, but found that it wouldn't fit our engines unless we chop wiring.

Yep, you would have to do a bit of a wiring chop, but its power, earth and 3 wires. The 3 connect 1 to each coil, to the -ve side. Given that its a coil on plug set up with the multipligs going into each coil, yes there would be a bit of chopping required.


I've heard about HKS DLI's before, people seem impressed with them, but I don't quite understand what they do, or when you need them. Based on Kierans findings we should be going with IK24's or maybe 27's, but is the DLI really needed, even on a modified VR-4, or is it only important if you are doing things like turbo upgrades?

All the DLI does is boost up the spark when needed. I suspect its like a big capacitor so it can throw that bit of extra woof into the coils at the moment of discharge. Essentially it boosts the current to the coil which is sparking to drive it harder. This gets rid of 'spark blow out' at higher rpm and boost levels by generating a bigger kick into the coil.

I think at lower rpms (i dont know where the switch over is) it shuts itself off allowing the coils to dishcarge more slowly, where a big but rapid spark might not be as appropriate.

On the subject of plugs, for the big power guys, i wouldnt bother with paltinums or Iridiums. Both these types of plug have a higher resistance than a normal copper plug. Whatever plug you run, high power outputs and boost will eat them in fiarly short order. For that reason i go with coppers at £2 a pop and available in loads of heat ranges so i can get something colder and i change them frequently.

Cheers,

Ben.

enigma
27-11-2006, 10:34 AM
On the subject of plugs, for the big power guys, i wouldnt bother with paltinums or Iridiums. Both these types of plug have a higher resistance than a normal copper plug. Whatever plug you run, high power outputs and boost will eat them in fiarly short order. For that reason i go with coppers at £2 a pop and available in loads of heat ranges so i can get something colder and i change them frequently.

I ran coppers in the Frankenlegnum with 200BHP of nitrous and had no blow out issues. Previously with the standard platinums it wouldn't take more than 130BHP.

Unfortunately the 200BHP hit was wasted due to a 40+mph headwind so I only ran a 12.6 but did get a low 1.7 60ft. After 330ft the wind just hauled me back would have been a very low 12 or maybe even a high 11 given the right conditions.

Kieran
27-11-2006, 01:00 PM
Yep, you would have to do a bit of a wiring chop, but its power, earth and 3 wires. The 3 connect 1 to each coil, to the -ve side. Given that its a coil on plug set up with the multipligs going into each coil, yes there would be a bit of chopping required.



All the DLI does is boost up the spark when needed. I suspect its like a big capacitor so it can throw that bit of extra woof into the coils at the moment of discharge. Essentially it boosts the current to the coil which is sparking to drive it harder. This gets rid of 'spark blow out' at higher rpm and boost levels by generating a bigger kick into the coil.

I think at lower rpms (i dont know where the switch over is) it shuts itself off allowing the coils to dishcarge more slowly, where a big but rapid spark might not be as appropriate.

On the subject of plugs, for the big power guys, i wouldnt bother with paltinums or Iridiums. Both these types of plug have a higher resistance than a normal copper plug. Whatever plug you run, high power outputs and boost will eat them in fiarly short order. For that reason i go with coppers at £2 a pop and available in loads of heat ranges so i can get something colder and i change them frequently.


Oooh - this is turning into an interesting thread.

Now, this weekend I was able to measure the resistance across a set of standard VR-4 HT leads. Despite their tiny size, they all measured around 1900ohms, assuming I was doing it right.

As a contrast, the "Ultra" (Made by Nagandenshi) performance HT leads that were on my VR-4 originally measured in at 1000ohms. I haven't measured the Magnecor leads.

Now then... Back to plugs a second - Ben.... What's the 'Crossover' threshold where one should consider copper plugs? And if they're less likely to blow out and such, why not fit them as standard? Is it just down to service life?

enigma
27-11-2006, 01:32 PM
Now then... Back to plugs a second - Ben.... What's the 'Crossover' threshold where one should consider copper plugs? And if they're less likely to blow out and such, why not fit them as standard? Is it just down to service life?

Yep its a service life thing - but as seen the iridiums dont last anywhere near the claimed life when you push them a bit. Copper works, and it has done for many years! It would be less of a ball ache if the plugs were not such a biatch to change though.

Kieran
27-11-2006, 01:43 PM
Aha - cool, cheers Dave.

bradc
27-11-2006, 06:44 PM
I can't imagine that running without nos would make the spark blow out then, the max I want to take my car to is 300kw at the wheels with a pair of gt25r turbos, I'm not sure if I like the idea of changing copper plugs every few thousand km's, that back row is a bitch. Probably easier to chew through a set of Platinums every 10000km or so.

Kieran, did you test all of the leads and were they all about 1900 ohms? Also isn't that a lot? Why don't they make the cables with a lot lower resistance?

enigma
27-11-2006, 07:07 PM
I can't imagine that running without nos would make the spark blow out then I have been blowing the spark out recently at high rpm without nos. This was due to the gap beng too large though as the earth strap had started to wear away. It was cured by new plugs and a lower than factory gap.

bradc
27-11-2006, 07:12 PM
What is the setup on your car at the moment? Similar to what it was before or has it changed drastically?

Kieran
27-11-2006, 07:18 PM
This gets odd..... You see, the NGK PFR6Js that I changed in Ariadne last time all came out with gaps around 1.1mm - Which surprised me as they'd only been in for about 25k(ish) miles. No issues (that I knew of) though.

So anyway, I change to IK22s and on boost and at high rpm you can feel the car's not as sharp. I escribe this to the heat range encouraging pinging rather than suppressing it, so the knock sensor keeps pegging things back.

So I look up PFR6J plugs and the only ones I can find that we can get in the UK are PFR6J-11s.... And these have a 1.1mm gap as standard! There is a bill in her service history for a new set of platinum plugs when she came to the UK, so I'm wondering if they were 0.8mm 6Js or 1.1m 6Js... :inquisiti :inquisiti I'll have a look tonight.

Seems like the optimum ignition system setup for my car is taking as much of my research time as the suspension did. I wish i'd done it in the first place!/pan

Kieran
28-11-2006, 10:03 AM
So I look up PFR6J plugs and the only ones I can find that we can get in the UK are PFR6J-11s.... And these have a 1.1mm gap as standard! There is a bill in her service history for a new set of platinum plugs when she came to the UK, so I'm wondering if they were 0.8mm 6Js or 1.1m 6Js... :inquisiti :inquisiti I'll have a look tonight.

And so I did. And guess what? The 'old' plugs are PFR6J-11s, rather than just straight PFR6Js. So the tips weren't as worn as I feared. Hmmm.

Wonder how a 1.1mm gap would cope with 1 Bar....:thinking:

More research required.:book:

enigma
28-11-2006, 10:16 AM
Wonder how a 1.1mm gap would cope with 1 Bar....:thinking:

More research required.:book:

It wouldn't.

NGK (http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/faq/faqpregap.asp?nav=31200&country=US)

Eurospec
28-11-2006, 10:21 AM
The draw back of copper is just service life. Mitsu knew the back bank was a bugger , so they put platinums in and said you dont have to change them for heaps of miles! Gotta say the std ignition system is fine for what it has to do.

As to when you get spark blow out, well its going to be different for everyone. It depends on the condition of your coil packs, your leads, how much boost etc etc.

What you can say is that the greater resistance between coil and plug tip the less energy will be left for the spark to jump the gap. If you have increased cylinder pressures by running more boost, or NOS, then the spark will find it harder to jump the gap due to the higher density of air present. Result- weaker spark.

Its also true that the smaller the spark kernel, the less efficient the burn. So what you want to shoot for is a reasonable size gap (not the micro gaps i see some cars running), but delivering enough energy to the plug tip to spark it even in high boost/nos situations.

In my own car, on std platinums with std gaps at 14psi boost i would get spark blow out around 5500 rpm. (stock boost is about 6-8psi). I put in a set of coppers 1 heat range colder and gapped them as std, no more blow out. I could pull 14psi to the redline (well i could have if the ridiculously small tubs hadnt been running out of puff!).

Later on after more upgrades and bigger turbos etc, i could run to about 17-19psi, but i would get blow out. I fitted MSD leads and new coppers, gapped down to 0.5mm. Like that no blow out right up to 20+ psi.

Infact i retained the same plug type and gap into my current set up (bigger turbos again etc etc) and pushed it up to 24psi before i got blow out.

Then i added the HKS DLI and so far i have been up as high as 30psi and no blow out.

hope thats helpful.

Cheers,

Ben.

Kieran
28-11-2006, 11:20 AM
Very Helpful Ben - Thanks.

So... Standard boost is 8psi on the pre-facelift (.55 bar). To start with, once all other items I've purchased are fitted, I'm thinking about 12~13psi (0.83-0.90 bar). Beyond that the Turbos tend to become fan heaters!

So - For now, standard PFR6J-11s and a set of MSD ignition leads to help the spark jump the gap better. Interestingly, whilst 1.1 seems a large gap to jump with high boost, the 3000GT uses PFR6J-11s as standard (1.1mm gap, correct, Ben?). If I get blowout, then I think I'll follow you with colder copper plugs.

Out of interest, what were the copper plugs you ran on the engine Ben?

Eurospec
28-11-2006, 02:37 PM
Yeah, i believe it is the same plug as std. 1.1 is a big gap, but look at the points on the electrodes, they are tiny, so less surface area , hence charge concentrated in the tip.

I currently have NGK BCPR7ES and i'm about to try a set of 8's. (although they are BC8ES, ie no resistors and no protruded nose- i dunno how they will perform with the DLI)

I used to gap them to 0.5mm but thinking about it the last set went in at 0.6mm this last time.

Cheers,

Ben.

MunkyWrench
29-11-2006, 10:58 PM
does anyone have a set of HT leads handy that they can measure the length of?

This is F***n ridiculous, no garage, no distributor, noone seems to be able to source a set of suitable leads in wellington.

I'd really like to have them handy so i can do the job in one go.

Axeboy
29-11-2006, 11:05 PM
Ive got a standard set in the shed...

Would they do?

I assume you dont have access to the OEM items?

MunkyWrench
29-11-2006, 11:11 PM
Ive got a standard set in the shed...

Would they do?

I assume you dont have access to the OEM items?

the car is still mobile, but misfiring under mid - wide open throttle.
I have plugs already, but need new wires too(its due for them). if that doesnt cure it then one of the coils is dying.

I dont have a nice clean garage to work in since im away from my home for summer, so I'd like to do it in one go.

I just need the length of each of the three wires, and maybe a photo of each end (one straight plug, one spark plug boot). Then I'll get a set made the same.

Muppsy
29-11-2006, 11:19 PM
I talked to the guys at Camskill about getting the Mangecore VR4 set shipped to NZ. Here is the reply:



Yep

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m3b0s9p1293

I can courier for about £40 or Airmail for about £5
Cost of the leads is £39.57

In stock

Thanks

Mike


Not sure if that helps. I'm probably going for it next week if you want to share a courier. Converts to about $170 with the courier, and I could courier to you for 5-7 bucks.

Or take the 5 quid airmail option yourself which will come to about $128.

Not bad considering the prices that I've heard for OEM leads for other Mitsis.

P.S. I have the exact same issues as you with the misfire.

Axeboy
29-11-2006, 11:22 PM
Ok, photos below... managed to do a hit and run on the shed in my shorts...

These are the cable lengths only, no including eaither plug end.

Cable 1: 500mm
Cable 2: 630mm
Cable 3: 670mm

The coil pack ends (smaller) are 40mm in length and the spark plug ends (larger) are 150mm.



http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3464/p1010001ag5.jpg



http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/7061/p1010002xg6.jpg


Hope this helps.

Scott

MunkyWrench
30-11-2006, 05:16 AM
mint.

I will keep these figures in mind.

The garage finaly called today to say they CAN get me the right leads overnight(its been a week now).

They are made by topgun australia(this is all I know so far), I will post details for others IF they are correct.