Choosing a intercooler

[LegnumPower]

Does anyone have any real world experience or expertise about intercoolers?
I'm looking at upgrading mine, and the choises I'm loking at are:
1) A stock Evo intercooler
2) Chinese 600x300x76 bar&plate
3) Chinese 700x230x65 bar and plate
4) Chinese 770x300x50 tube&fin with 2,5" rear outlets.

Any ideas on which would be the best choise considering cooling, air flow and pressure drop?

[Confused]

A lot of us are running the generic cheap Chinese 600x300x76, which, with a small spacer kit, requires no cutting to fit.

I don't think anyone has done any particular science on the various options, however!

[LegnumPower]

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of opinions and butt dyno results out there, but not much real facts. The ones doing any testing are usually trying to sell something.
My thinking is:
1) Evo might have the best designed core.
2) 600x300x76 is the one that "everybpdy" has. Biggest volume, but does the part of it squeezed behind the crash bar really do any good?
3) 700x230x65 A bit smaller surface area, but would fill up the hole in the bumper pretty good, and maybe take better advantage of the airflow? But will it restrict flow and just create more EGT and heat?
4) Biggest surface area and thinner core. Maybe the best flow of cooling air? But again, the flow to the engine and pressure drop is a question. Tube and fin design might help in this case.

Overall buying made in China stuff is usually a bit of a lottery..

Option 5 is, keep the stock cooler. It's a different design than the other ones. (Vertical vs horizontal flow). Maybe it's not such a bad design after all?

[Nick Mann]

I looked into this recently with Wouter but I can't remember what we decided. I seem to remember tube and fin is better for most applications? Lighter, so easier to recover from heat soak etc.

I'd be tempted to see if I could fit one below the crash bar, but I'm not sure if your option 3 would do that?

[Wouter]

I went for a Mishimoto M-Line Universal Inter cooler which is 600x300x76 but rather than being cheap Chinese is made by a known brand with the additional cost that the brand carries.

https://www.mishimoto.co.uk/mishimoto-universal-intercooler-large.html

I for one am happy with the performance boost but then I made a number of changes so who knows how much this specific intercooler impacted the improvements is difficult to say or for that matter how much it gains against a cheap Chinese one...if at all....

My reasoning for buying it was that I see loads of Evo's with this intercooler, I've seen it used in motorsport settings and Mishimoto is an internationally recognized brand. Without the ability to perform a bunch of scientific tests comparing all the options, this is the safest gamble..... also... it came in black which matches my white and black colour scheme.....

I hope this helps you in some way.

[LegnumPower]

I went for the EVO one, because it was cheap :D, and i suspect it will do reasonably well in my, mostly stock application.
Just have to try to find time to install it now..

[howardalex]

My big question on intercoolers is....if I buy an aftermarket intercooler (leaning towards the mishimoto number) - do I need new pipes and things or can I buy that and a bigger fuel pump and take them to my garage to fit? I've seen full kits on eBay but I'm wary of them being from China

[howardalex]

My big question on intercoolers is....if I buy an aftermarket intercooler (leaning towards the mishimoto number) - do I need new pipes and things or can I buy that and a bigger fuel pump and take them to my garage to fit? I've seen full kits on eBay but I'm wary of them being from China

Or if there's a blitz kit going anyone can link me to, that would be a real help (probably asking the world)

[Confused]

In the Staged Upgrades (https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?75519-Getting-more-power-staged-upgrade-recommendations) sticky, there's a list of the silicone elbows & clamps you'll need to fit a generic 600x300x76 intercooler.

[howardalex]

In the Staged Upgrades (https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?75519-Getting-more-power-staged-upgrade-recommendations) sticky, there's a list of the silicone elbows & clamps you'll need to fit a generic 600x300x76 intercooler.

D'oh! I've been in that thread so I have no excuse - thank you though! Soon as I get him back from the garage, I'll be ordering! Thanks!

[Nick Mann]

If you have a facelift you may need to change the steel pipe that feeds the intercooler. (The one behind the front foglight.)

[howardalex]

/Hmmm I'll bare that in mind, the biggest issue I see coming will be the cams as it's a regrind and most of the regrinders seem to be in NZ, trying not to worry about it all until I have my car back from the garage (6 weeks now!). Tempted to buy a spare engine and have that one rebuilt and tuned then swap them, although that will probably end up a ballache

[Nick Mann]

Cams are way down the list of upgrades. How far are you going?

[howardalex]

Cams are way down the list of upgrades. How far are you going?

Over the next 2-3 years, potentially all 10 steps, although I want to see how I enjoy a little more power with the auto box

It's already had uprated brakes and a stainless exhaust with a sports cat, they were done before I bought it
I'm waiting (6 weeks now) to get it back from the garage who have been messing around doing the welding underneath, I've taken them in a blitz bov and a blitz Sus induction kit, plus welding to fix the oil leaks, power steering leak etc, I've asked them to do all the servicing, Cambelt and upgrade the spark plugs for me

Definite mods before summer: fuel pump, front mounted intercooler, some kind of software upgrade (whether I need a new ECU or not will depend on how much I tune it)

Been put off the twin td04/ single holset hx35 any time soon as it sounds like the car will be in the garage for a good while and cost a lot /pale
Plus I'm moving house and that's turned out a lot more expensive than I had planned

Edit: and I've been reading a lot about 6a13 issues with pistons, which is making me think I should know a lot more before I go for turbo upgrades!

[TAR]

I've taken them a blitz Sus induction kit

You really don't want that, the air temp in the engine bay is high enough to sap the power. A cold air box or just a quality filter in the original airbox is a far better solution. :happy:

[howardalex]

You really don't want that, the air temp in the engine bay is high enough to sap the power. A cold air box or just a quality filter in the original airbox is a far better solution. :happy:

Ah yes I was aware of that - I'll be honest, I knew I'd lose a little power but I wanted a whoosh noise
I've been looking at a carbon fibre Evo vented bonnet to keep the temperature down but I'm concerned about the water getting in and rust!
https://www.vipmotorsport.co.uk/Mitsubishi-Galant-1999-2003-Seibon-Carbon-EVO-style-carbon-fibre-bonnet?tag=&sort=rating&order=DESC&page=210&limit=75

I've actually been hoping to see someone with an aftermarket vented bonnet in a car park since so I could ask them :quasi:
What're your thoughts on the bonnet?

Another concern is the ea8a code rather than ec5a

[TAR]

I guess that bonnet will allow water in if it doesn't have a drip tray underneath it. I'd also hazard a guess that it will create a low pressure area over the holes which will suck the air out, this may be good for cooling but may not be helpful for getting air into the pod filter.

There are people who've had carbon bonnets fitted so someone may be able to give further advice.

I'd still absolutely advise not to use the pod filter.

As for the fit of the bonnet, I think that if it fits a standard Galant, it'll fit a VR4 but you should confirm with the supplier for a definitive answer :happy:

[howardalex]

I guess that bonnet will allow water in if it doesn't have a drip tray underneath it. I'd also hazard a guess that it will create a low pressure area over the holes which will suck the air out, this may be good for cooling but may not be helpful for getting air into the pod filter.

There are people who've had carbon bonnets fitted so someone may be able to give further advice.

I'd still absolutely advise not to use the pod filter.

As for the fit of the bonnet, I think that if it fits a standard Galant, it'll fit a VR4 but you should confirm with the supplier for a definitive answer :happy:

Thanks TAR! I've asked them to keep the cold air box and k&n filter the previous owner stuck in. Definitely not considering the bonnet now. This is seeming a lot harder than anticipated, when I bought it, I thought twin turbo V6, I'll just get myself a copy of max power at Tesco, order a few parts, take it to a mitsi garage and have an m5 beater in a week :D

[elnevio]

Haha yeah, I've often thought things should be as easy as tuning ANY model in Gran Turismo!! /rally

[Nick Mann]

Love the Max Power comment!
I'm with Tim on the induction comments, but with a slightly different main reason. The MAF is very susceptible to air flow changes so if the flow over the MAF is not linear and uniform then there is a very good chance you will not fuel correctly. Most pod filters will either give more flow in the middle or a slight vortex. This usually leads to over fuelling, so a loss of power plus even worse MPG.
Where are you in the UK? If around the midlands there are a couple of us in Redditch who could chat over what we have done and demonstrate the results.

[howardalex]

Love the Max Power comment!
I'm with Tim on the induction comments, but with a slightly different main reason. The MAF is very susceptible to air flow changes so if the flow over the MAF is not linear and uniform then there is a very good chance you will not fuel correctly. Most pod filters will either give more flow in the middle or a slight vortex. This usually leads to over fuelling, so a loss of power plus even worse MPG.
Where are you in the UK? If around the midlands there are a couple of us in Redditch who could chat over what we have done and demonstrate the results.

I'm in Manchester but up for a trip once I have the galant back - I'm definitely feeling that I need to do the fuel pump, the 530 injectors and sort out the ECU side of things. I've asked them to keep all the standard bits that they change out, I'm going to take them some Christmas beers in the garage tomorrow if they're open and I'll say hold off the air filter.

https://www.fensport.co.uk/collections/clearance/products/blitz-lm-alloy-radiator-18804-evo-4-5-6

Do you think this will fit fairly easily? I'm considering the upgrade mostly because it will save space so potentially I could go a bit bigger than 600x300x76 on the intercooler - I'm guessing it would free up some space for a future turbo upgrade too

Before I get ahead of myself with the 10 stages of upgrades - will the auto gearbox take big bhp?

I'm really sorry to be a million questions but I'm eager to get the bits in!

[howardalex]

Update: I've ordered the mishimoto m line intercooler as per this thread, silicone hoses as per the staged upgrades page and the spark plugs, thanks guys /GJ

[mxc357]

Did you need to cut the crash bar to have the Mishimoto fit? I was also looking at the M or S line as well.

[howardalex]

Did you need to cut the crash bar to have the Mishimoto fit? I was also looking at the M or S line as well.

Sorry i didn't reply back in this thread....so I ordered the mishimoto and they cancelled my order as out of stock, ended up buying a 700x600 one from turbozentrum and....the garage I asked to fit it didn't fit it!

[mxc357]

Did you need to cut the crash bar for the Mishimoto to fit?

[Wouter]

Did you need to cut the crash bar for the Mishimoto to fit?

I installed a Mishimoto 600x300x76 last year and I bought a fitment kit from a chap who a CVR4 user called Grid. The fitment kit came with a spacer which was supposed to ensure that I did not have to cut the crash bar but the Mishimoto end caps are more bulbous that some other 600x300x76 intercoolers and I ended up not being able to us the spacers. Instead I had to cut the bar slightly. It didn't take long and I didn't have to cut much. All I used was a Ryobi cordless angle grinder and some primer and paint for the cuts I made.