Dump Valves

[ritch_w]

what type of dumpvalves do VR4s have - is it recirculating?

what type of aftermarket dump valves fit a VR4???

(started looking on fleabay for one - but am confused with different types available....... /help )

[enigma]

Yeah, we have a recirculating type. However people have replaced them with vent to atmosphere ones with some success. There is no point changing it for another recirculating one, as you will get nothing from it.

I have a hybrid type, it both vents to atmosphere AND recirculates some of the air to keep the ECU happy.

There are loads available, its all a matter of preference. As someone has stated on an auto there is no real need to get one unless you want to play dumping at the pedestrians! ;)

[ritch_w]

As someone has stated on an auto there is no real need to get one unless you want to play dumping at the pedestrians! ;)

yes!!!!!

the most common type seems to be of the piston variety eg DV 24..Piston Dump Valve http://www.baileymotorsport.co.uk/baileymotorsport/frame.html

these will work ok? is there any way one of these could lead to any sort of damage to the turbos or anything else important (expensive...)????

ta

[paulmc]

No, you need the DV 26. It stays shut at idle, if not the car may run uneven at idle as it is sucking in air that the ecu does not know about. The 26 has a seperate flap / seal that stays shut but opens full under vacuume when lifting your foot off the throttle.

DV wont cause you any probs in the auto, If you have a manual the car stall if you dip the clutch above 2000rpm as the ecu is looking for dumped air the be re-circulated.

HTH

Paul

[shooter]

I bought a dump valve off ebay and it seems to work fine. dumps to atmos and came with a blanking plug for the recirculation pipe.

As mentioned only dumps when you lift off but can be used to great effect when you pass a bus stop full of peeps in second and let go about 5000rpm.

My missus thinks it make us sound like a bus - what does she know anyway

shooter

[ritch_w]

can anyone give examples of types / models that will work - there seem to be that many on e-bay - i dont want to waste money and get one thats not going to work....

thanks :thumbsup:

[SGHOM]

I have this one !! :thumbsup:
http://www.potn.com/p1607014.htm

Along with Dave's, it does make small children cry, & make people turn & look even before you reach them !! /yes

it's this seasons must have accessory !! :rolleyes4 :thumbsup:

[shooter]

If I recall when I was looking into this it is best to avoid the cheaper diaphram type valve, seemingly these can bleed air causing poor idle

Go for a piston type.

As always it depends on how much you want to spend. I got mine via ebay from Abbott Racing http://www.abbottracing.com - cost me about £60 if I remember for a nice polished aluminium effort.
If money is no object I would go for a sequential HKS effort - no reason other than it looks good, probably sounds good too

I did have to buy a reducing piece of samco hose to get it all to fit together but it was off the shelf from my local boy racer store.

Shooter

[paulmc]

any one that is suitable for air flow meters, piston type is best. the one interlec has does not open at idle due to the type of valve / spring. DV26 or Forge make one the same but i dont know what it is called.

[Kenneth]

You should be sweet with any BOV, so long as you can adjust it so it doesn't open up at idle or at low RPM where you might stall.

EDIT: from what I understand, most BOVs use boost AND vacumme to open the piston. vacumme from the manifold pulls the piston up when you close the throttle butterfly and boost from the intake piping pushing against the piston

That might mean that you get some compressor stall at low boost, but hey it sounds cool enough and thats what DVs are all about.

[Smokinmasta2]

EBAY BOV HERE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72205&item=7969603667&rd=1)

So is something like this worth a go? I assume when fitting a VTA, you block/blank/bung etc off the pipe that goes to the back of the car?
Marked in picture below (Dan G's)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Smokinmasta/bov.jpg

Smokin...........

[strangebat]

I bought a bailey piston type from ebay for £20 :thumbsup: but found it stayed open at idle :embarasse . so took it apart and replaced the spring inside with various ones from my parts shed until I found one that worked just right. as has been said it doesn't have any perfomance gain so I didn't see the point in spending a lot of money on it. I just like the noise :evil2:
btw the wax insert from a night lite candle makes a perfect blanking plug for the recirc hose :thumbsup:

[Smokinmasta2]

I bought a bailey piston type from ebay for £20 :thumbsup: but found it stayed open at idle :embarasse . so took it apart and replaced the spring inside with various ones from my parts shed until I found one that worked just right. as has been said it doesn't have any perfomance gain so I didn't see the point in spending a lot of money on it. I just like the noise :evil2:
btw the wax insert from a night lite candle makes a perfect blanking plug for the recirc hose :thumbsup:

Which one did you get and is the hose i marked (above!) the one to blank??
Good tip on the nite lite thing BTW !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Smokin...............

[Smokinmasta2]

Anyone confirm which one to block then???
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE /help

Smokin.....

[paulmc]

to hard to say from that pic. the boost usaully comes in at the bottom and dumps out the side, but you need to make sure.

Trace the pipes coming in. One will go to the pipe work leading to the inlet manifold, this is the one with boost. The other will go to the air inlet side the pipe will prob be after the air cleaner but not always. this is the one you need to block.

If you block off the wrong one no harm done it just wont dump so no tttttttttshhhh noise.

I would block the one with the star if it were me.

[to4garret]

My 2c :D

i am using a TurboXS Type H-RFL (Real Fuggin Loud!) they're cheap, easy to install and are by far the loudest BOV i have ever heard, brass piston variety adjustible from 10psi to 25psi via washer packings.

Before the single turbo conversion i just used a simple frost plug and hose clamp to block the recirc line.

I have mine set on max (25psi) for the loud pssssssst and also to keep it closed at idle for that happy ECU :D

Another thing to note when looking at BOV's is if they quote a max psi rating, its usually a pressure deferrential, for instance 15psi of boost pressue combined with the vacum the engine creates off throttle gives the 25psi.

yea, the one with the star looks the goer to block off ;)

[Smokinmasta2]

My 2c :D

i am using a TurboXS Type H-RFL (Real Fuggin Loud!) they're cheap, easy to install and are by far the loudest BOV i have ever heard, brass piston variety adjustible from 10psi to 25psi via washer packings.

Before the single turbo conversion i just used a simple frost plug and hose clamp to block the recirc line.

I have mine set on max (25psi) for the loud pssssssst and also to keep it closed at idle for that happy ECU :D

Another thing to note when looking at BOV's is if they quote a max psi rating, its usually a pressure deferrential, for instance 15psi of boost pressue combined with the vacum the engine creates off throttle gives the 25psi.

yea, the one with the star looks the goer to block off ;)

Thanks - what's a frost plug BTW??

Smokin........

[Dan_G]

Anyone confirm which one to block then???
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE /help

Smokin.....

You marked the return line yup yup yup. block that one(said in a little britain voice).

btw I must get some shineyerer clips... :smug:

[to4garret]

frost plug, kay,

on the engine block, you will notice ummm, little plugs, kinda like a coke bottle top except about double the width. they're pushed in ver hard and form a complete seal.

right behind the frost plug is the engine coolant. the purpose of the frost plug is incase the engine coolant freezes, the plug will pop out instead of the expanding ice causing other damage like cracked heads blown gaskets etc.

frost plugs retail in NZ for about $3.50 and come in all sizes. any car part place should have a selection. just take the old recirc tube with you and try different plugs till on fits nicely, then hose clamp it.

good luck

Craig.

[paulmc]

or the quick way, cut 3" off your brush shaft, perfect fit :thumbsup:

[Kenneth]

initally i thought you said BUSH shaft... LOL imagine that...

[strangebat]

btw the wax insert from a night lite candle makes a perfect blanking plug for the recirc hose
:oops: :stupid: feel a bit daft now. took car for a run today and when I got back the idle was rough as hell. looked underneath wax plug+hot engine=wax plug melting and falling out :embarasse :embarasse :embarasse
not one for the good ideas book!!!

[paulmc]

initally i thought you said BUSH shaft... LOL imagine that...



:laugh:

[Smokinmasta2]

/help

Just got me BOV and it came with some strange adaptors??
Any idea what to do with these, they appear to NOT be able to go anywhere!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Smokinmasta/DSCN1066.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Smokinmasta/DSCN1064.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Smokinmasta/DSCN1065.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Smokinmasta/DSCN1062.jpg

[pezza]

Schmokin.. that Dump valve is da nutzzzzz :thumbsup:

(Cheers for the loan of the stock one - wil test v soon)

Could hear synchronised Tschhhh!'s from you n jimbo as you lifted off round that last corner before the grid!!! :laugh:

[Axeboy]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72205&item=7986688204&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW



Would that fit easily?

Or would i need a kit of some kind>

[Smokinmasta2]

Yes it should do - its what i was going to get, if i did not find the one i got!!

Smokin...............

[Axeboy]

Would i need a "fitting kit" though?

[paulmc]

no fitting kit required, unless you don't get the wee plastic take off pipe on top. It would be worth asking the seller

[vampirej]

Could someone clarify the difference between a dump valve and a blow off valve please? I'm confused... :rolleyes4
Also, given that the VR4 is twin turbo, does that mean you need to order 2 dump valves?

Thanks and please don't laugh as I'm new to turbo cars... :embarasse

Jon

[Wodjno]

Could someone clarify the difference between a dump valve and a blow off valve please? I'm confused... :rolleyes4
Also, given that the VR4 is twin turbo, does that mean you need to order 2 dump valves?

Thanks and please don't laugh as I'm new to turbo cars... :embarasse

Jon
There is no difference.. It's just a variation of the name .. /yes :happy:

And you only need 1 .. :thumbsup:

[Smokinmasta2]

None, in essance the same thing!! No you only need one.
See the big picture i put up for mine in this thread - that is it upside down as such........
Connect the intercooler pipe to the top one, the side one connects to the plumb back. The small connector is for the vac pipe - it will all become clear if get under the car on passenger side just in front of the wheel and splash guard.

No real gain other than the childish noise ( i like it, but i am a big kid!)
i would advice getting a dual type (which vents to atmos and the plumb back) so you don't get stalling probs (the Maf is expecting air to come back, so best give it a little air then!). Just make sure (have a friend handy) to check the operation opening and closing the throttle. What you are looking for is it to close BEFORE the throttle fully closes. In my case i used the extra washers supplied to put more tension on the spring to force the piston closed.


Smokin..............

[vampirej]

Thanks for that... I don't think I would have the courage to do it myself, more than likely getting it done by someone... There are a few of them that I like and I'm not really looking for any power gain as such, just for the noise really... LOL
I see that there are a few links in this thread and they seem to provide what I'm after... heehee

[ghanda]

I fitted an Evo14 VTA from Forge the other week and seriously, it was easier to do than taking a wheel off.

Jack up the car from the front passenger side. Poke your head under passenger side gog light and look straight up. The Valve is just there. You'll see 3 pipes attached to it via jubilee clips. Undo them and marry up the DV to the two obvious pipes and attach (simply re-plug the pipes and tighten.) Forge very kindly supply an aliminium bung that you wedge into the now disused return pipe and tighten up the jubilee clip. Job done. Literally 5 minutes.

The Beauty on a Tiptronic is it's totally stealth - it will only blow when you want it too - ie when you lift off sharply.

The EVO14 has two distinct sounds - one very short whoosh and one long 'dump' - I'm still practising to get either at will :)

[vampirej]

Really that easy?? I'll poke around there when I get the car and see if I could spot it... then order... LOL
From the forge website, there are 2 available, one with filter and one without... I assume they should both fit right?

[Smokinmasta2]

I would avoid the blanking off of the return myself, in general it causes stalling probs or CAN do. Go for a dual vent - cheap enough fleabay, think mine was £35 ish. Brass piston all alloy body...........

[vampirej]

That's it... I'm confused once again... :embarasse /help :embarasse :rolleyes4

[Quail]

That's it... I'm confused once again... :embarasse /help :embarasse :rolleyes4

Ill explain :scholar:

Theres 3 types of DV/BOV you can buy.

Recirculating -

Recirculates the dumped air back into the intake. The car's MAF sensor is expecting air to be recirculated. With recirculating BOVs, you wont get any dodgy idles or stalling, because the MAF is seeing the air which has been dumped and returned.

DTA (dump to atmosphere) -

These are the dump valves which make the loud dumping noise. They also cause you to run slightly rich on lift-off/overrun (because the MAF is expecting air to be recirculated, but instead the air is dumped to the atmosphere. This means the ECU is putting petrol in the engine, without the neccesary oxygen to burn it properly. This results in temporarily running rich (and sometimes getting flames when you get back on the throttle)). Running rich wont harm your engine, and everyone loves flames :evil2:

Dual BOVs (recirc & dta)

These DVs come in a variety of shapes and sizes. Some will return the dumped air to your intake when your at crusing speed, but when at WOT will DTA. Some are adjustable, so you can tell them how much you want recirc'd, and how much you want DTA'd. The way to visibly see if the BOV is a dual, is it will have too trumpets. One will be flared (the dta one), and one will be hose sized to recirc to your intake. These are the compromise; should tackle the stalling problem found in some cars, whilst also giving you the noise when you want it.

Hope this helps mate.

[Quail]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Quail/bovs.jpg

I drew you a pic cuz im bored. Its a bit crap though

[caishanvr4]

And the turnip prize award for the best drawing of 2005 goes to ( :drummer: drum roll ) QUALI ( crowd goes into a clapping frenzy )

In all seriousness thats a good diagram and very informative explanation. I now know more about dump valves than ive ever known b4.
:chugchug: to Quali

looks like a dual bov for me then when funds allow. whats the cheapest best on the market then guys.

[ghanda]

Not had a Stalling problem at all with a VTA. Yes, really that easy to fit. I went for the one with the foam filter - it's ever so slightly quieter (I can always remove it!).

[vampirej]

The drawer was really good, simple but straight to the point! Gives a overall picture to everything explained so far... I have had a look at Kenny's turbo'd civic today, as you could actually see the turbo / actuator / dump valve from top, he explained to me how the turbos work and what each one does... It makes more sense now. I think I'm going to opt for the 2 ways one as well. I'm thinking of Blitz, but they are a little expensive, not sure whether HKS do one... or fleabay to see whether they have one...

thanks for the explanations guys.. :chugchug:

[Smokinmasta2]

...........£35 quid off fleabay m8

[vampirej]

Does anyone know whether this fits?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BLITZ-BOV-BLOW-OFF-DUMP-VALVE-MITSUBISHI-GTO-3000GT-VR4_W0QQitemZ8008315133QQcategoryZ72205QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

NOT THE GIRL... LOL

[Quail]

Shouldnt have a problem at all with that mate. Its a good bov too

[vampirej]

Will these fit??
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRUMPET-BOV-STYLE-BLOW-OFF-DUMP-VALVE-EVO-nOT-HKS_W0QQitemZ8016002842QQcategoryZ72205QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[ghanda]

Mmm..I'm going to put my 'no stalling problems with a VTA dump valve' on hold till I re-fit a standard re-circ OEM valve...

[vampirej]

Mmm..I'm going to put my 'no stalling problems with a VTA dump valve' on hold till I re-fit a standard re-circ OEM valve...
You having problems with the non-circulate one that you have?
Also found this...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dual-Piston-Ram-Dump-Valve_W0QQitemZ8014954818QQcategoryZ72205QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

[ghanda]

Yeah, the car is almost stalling after a motorway run when I come to a standstill.
Everything else has been checked/replaced (oil & fluid levels, new throttle stepper and Lamda) so the DV is the only thing left to check.

[pezza]

This is a problem that quite a few owners have or are currently experiencing....

Mine does that when I come to a standstill at the roundabout after a motorway run...not sure if it is a dumpvalve issue tho? I have had 3 different recirc valves on my car and its done it with every one of them... after the first roundabout stop its fine though... does it continue on your car?

Some people have talked about the loading by having the A/C on as the revs drop quickly coming to a standstill...and symptoms sound like the alternator issues you would get on other cars... but I dont think it is that :inquisiti

Its worth havin a search on here but I do not recall anyone as coming up with a solution to irradicate this behaviour...

[vampirej]

It was the reason why I thought the stock DV is leaking... but noticed that it only "stalls" if you have stopped from 3000 rpm. It never happens when you are stuck in traffic!! It was worse if you had to do an emergency stop (40mph @ a million feet!!/help )... I now have my foot firmly on the brake when I stop and leave at least half a car length, just in case the rev picks up all of a sudden and the car jerks forward. /yes /yes