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View Full Version : Handling on the 'limit'... japcrap tyres?



bernmc
25-05-2005, 09:34 AM
We've had a few wet, greasy days here in the land of the in-bred, and I have to say, my VR4's handling in the wet is absolutely appalling! No front end grip whatsoever. The first time I went around a roundabout at what I considered a moderate pace, I ended up a lane over from where I started - just lucky I didn't have anyone next to me. The only way I can overcome this is driving rally-style - ie dab brakes before the corner to shift the weight onto the front, turn in well before the apex to unsettle the car, and get on the power to get the bum out. Not really the stuff for the Queen's highway really (in fact she phoned me last night to tell me to cool it).

What do other VR4's do when approaching their limits? Neutral drift? Over/under steer?

I have three possibilities:


Japcrap tyres - they're bridgeston 'regnos', whatever that is. Tread pattern doesn't look to bad, and they passed SVA & MOT :o, but I suspect they weren't designed to handle our conditions. Marcus pointed out that they weren't the correct load rating either (89) at the last little get-together.
Alignment - my offside front is wearing unevenly (inside edge), so I'll get the alignement checked at the local soonish. Can't afford the time or cost of a full Xtreme treatment atm though.
Rear strut brace? Noted a post a while back that suggested that these might upset the handling? Anyone else here have one, and what are your experiences?
*sigh* looks like I'm going to be buying new 17's and tyres before I intended to.

adam_shaw
25-05-2005, 09:44 AM
One word.

Tracking.

As my lower arms wore out the wet handling got downright scary, but with new arms and obviously retracked it sticks like something sticky to something else. :rolleyes4

Especially if you're seeing uneven wear this has to be the place to start.

A

Jimbo
25-05-2005, 10:23 AM
It could quite easily be tyres too.

I had super-soft/super-[dry]-grippy Yokohama AVS sports on my car in the first 6 months I had it and I was getting shocking wet grip in the manner you describe, it was very tail happy indeed.

bernmc
25-05-2005, 12:57 PM
Opposite with me - understeer ++++ is the norm - I have to unsettle the car to try to get the tail loose to try to prevent the understeer.

Jimbo
25-05-2005, 02:23 PM
Sorry, I didn't explain that very well.....

On the old tyres I was getting fairly consistent oversteering in the wet with not much throttle which would cause me to panic lift. This action then seems to limit the capabilities of the AYC to a major degree and unsettles the car to the point that I was getting the tail coming round slightly.

When I put 4 new Eagles on the car it didn't seem to make much difference in the dry (which is where the Yokos are so good), but I was blown away with how much grippier they made the car feel in the wet and that gave me much more confidence.

Maybe just wear out those tyres and take it a bit steadier on wet corners until you can get some new tyres to compare to.....then you'll know whether it's anything more serious?

Kenneth
25-05-2005, 09:11 PM
bernmc:
Seems you have the same tyres that I do!

You are right about them being a bit poor in the grip department, especially when it is a bet greasy.

What pressure are you running? I now run 36/36 front/rear... while not ideal for rear grip when the tyres are cold, it seems to be good for driving hard.

Also, when the tyres warm up they are almost another beast. I have pushed them quite hard when at a decent temperature and they handle OK (would love to try some decent tyres though).

Also make sure your wheels are aligned properly, as I also found that this caused the nose to be a little unpredictable in the wet, especially under braking.

chris g
26-05-2005, 11:13 AM
Tyres may bea an issue and pressures but evo/VR-4 do understeer characteristically but important to remember in wet partic that assuming in right gear/line for corner, to keep power ON before you turn in, not excess power to shift weight/flip out rear but to get AYC working and just keep turning steering and car should go where you want

If you push too fast for the corner then nothing will stop understeer - get throttle right, power on for AYC and you should be laughing thru every corner/roundabout

At least thats my experience partic at the Ring in loads of rain and thru all sorts of corners

chris g
26-05-2005, 11:17 AM
Forgot to add that at Donny last Dec in wet using right amount of power before corner and relying on AYC thru sweping corners we enjoyed four wheel power drifts - loadsafun!

Power off into corners and then power on in the corners has car unsettled and scrabbling for grip as AYC starts to work and that may cause problems for the unprepared - avoid this!

bernmc
26-05-2005, 11:52 AM
There's no question of getting the AYC to haul out of corners - there is NO front end grip in the wet - if I kept my foot in it I'd end up farming.

Tyres were at 36/36, and I dropped them recently to see if it made a difference, which it didn't.

Did the tracking this morning, so we'll see what dif it makes. Had a look at the tyres though, and they're in a bit of a state - many radial cracks, so they're going to have to go ASAP :sad3:. Need to get hold of some EVO 17" alloys. More pennies. Lucky I've got some gold bullion in the garage - just have to find it from under the rest of the tat.

Kenneth
26-05-2005, 10:48 PM
Forgot to add that at Donny last Dec in wet using right amount of power before corner and relying on AYC thru sweping corners we enjoyed four wheel power drifts - loadsafun!

My car can do this too. Theres is a local back road I know where this tends to happen as I power out of the corner.

admittedly its when the tyres are somewhat cold.

westy
27-05-2005, 10:44 PM
its the tyres mate,had this on a few of the imports,they pass sva because they have the compliance mark on them [circle with 2 squiggly lines] but the compound is wrong, lost a skyline round a corner in the wet.my legnum is sat on goodyear f1s to be safe :thumbsup: :smug:

SGHOM
27-05-2005, 11:08 PM
at combe on saturday, you could have put caterpillar tracks on, /yes & still lost traction !! :rolleyes4 /help

bernmc
28-05-2005, 12:50 PM
Well, did the tracking yesterday and the car is transformed in the dry. Much less of the old AYC light. Hopefully it'll make a bit of a difference in the wet. As Westy says though, the tyres will need replacing. Just have to get hold of those 17's... :inquisiti

adam_shaw
28-05-2005, 06:53 PM
One word.

Tracking.


I'm preparing my 'I told you so... award acceptance speach' :rolleyes4

Good news :thumbsup: , let's wait and see in the wet

A

bernmc
30-05-2005, 12:21 AM
I'm preparing my 'I told you so... award acceptance speach' :rolleyes4

Good news :thumbsup: , let's wait and see in the wet

A

Ah yes - forgot to do the :thumbsup: thing at you!

Kenneth
30-05-2005, 01:00 AM
I'll tell you what, those tyres are actually not that bad when warmed up sufficiently...

Went on a cruise for the local meet on saturday, and I did some interesting speeds through some tight corners in the dry... and always stuck.

In saying that, there were some times in the wet regions where I felt a little like they wern't doing their best.

Any idea how old your tyres actually are? (hope you havent already said, and I am blind)

bernmc
30-05-2005, 07:57 AM
Can't be that old - lots of tread. Two problems though - load rating is 89, and I think that the VR4 wants 92, and the passenger tyre is developing radial cracks. Not sure why exactly.

I agree that they're not bad when they're warm & dry, but cold and/or wet.... erk!

I know everyone here likes the F1's, but I've read some good things about Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, so may have a look at those if the price is right.

adam_shaw
31-05-2005, 11:49 AM
No worries on the :thumbsup: , just a little sarcasm to get me through the day.

I had Pilot Sports on the Sport, and they were excellent. However once they started to wear it was like they were gone overnight :inquisiti

Still, I think a good alternative to the F1's

A

bernmc
31-05-2005, 10:22 PM
No worries on the :thumbsup: , just a little sarcasm to get me through the day.

I had Pilot Sports on the Sport, and they were excellent. However once they started to wear it was like they were gone overnight :inquisiti

Still, I think a good alternative to the F1's

A

Can you remember how many miles you got out of the Pilots? Compared to F1's...

SGHOM
31-05-2005, 10:25 PM
how many miles you got out of the Pilots?...
are we on about tyres still or air miles ?? :inquisiti :embarasse :embarasse




I know.. I know.. :embarasse I'm going. /help

bernmc
31-05-2005, 10:54 PM
I know.. I know.. :embarasse I'm going. /help
And not too soon ;)

adam_shaw
01-06-2005, 11:59 AM
Can you remember how many miles you got out of the Pilots? Compared to F1's...

Don't exactly recall, I'm guessing it was at least 25K - I got them just after getting the Sport, and replaced them just before selling it. :rolleyes4

(My decision to buy the VR-4 was not entirely planned)

As far as I know a friend got a few more K out of them before they were gone.

Good value I think?

A