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Kenneth
28-06-2005, 04:56 AM
On the Tauranga run I had the pleasure of being a passenger in Mel's (97_Legnum) car. As we (most of the time) took up the rear we got a very good view of what the driving was like.
The resulting discussion brought us to the conclusion that some members may not be used to driving in groups and some are.

I think it would be a good idea for those with experiance to share with those that may not. Hopefully the result is safer and more enjoyable runs.

In some cases where you are very familiar with anothers driving style, you may have "custom" rules. For example I have a couple of friends who I can literally be centimeters from their bumper and I know they will keep things as safe as possible. Stupid thing to do, but hey sometimes we do silly things in the persuit of fun. Trick is if you are going to play silly buggers, make sure the risks are minimised as much as possible.

You may also disagree with some of this, if so please be mature about it as I am willing to ammend and add bits and pieces based on duscussion.

1) Follow as close as you feel is safe to the car in front (unless you are the leader) and try to match speed.

Benefits
A group of cars takes a fair bit of space on the road. The closer cars are the more effective your manevours are going to be.
Keeping in a tight group also aviods the situation where someone (ie: to catch up for passing) is travelling at a much higer speed and has to jam the brakes on to pull up.

Things to note
You can be traveling close to another car at very high speeds. This takes common sense ie: don't brake more heavily than is neccesary.
Also requires trust. As the following car you want to know that the person in front isn't going to wack on their brakes for some reason you cant see.
Up front driver should be taking care trying to avoid creating a situation where heavy braking is neccesary.


2) When pulling in after passing, look to see if someone is following you. If so, keep the hammer down as long as possible so that the following cars can safely slot in behind you. If you brake, the person behind has to not only brake to match your speed they have to slot into a gap under brakes. Also, if they were "catching up" as well, they are probably going faster than you were!!!

Benefits
Safety. Everyone wants to go home in a VR-4.

Things to note
Sometimes you cant avoid having to brake. If things are getting tight at the end of a passing lane, and you CANT make it past the next car, then pump your brakes to let the following car know you are about to brake hard. But only brake as hard as you need to for safety... you may have better tyres/brakes than the person following you. Give them as much chance as possible without endangering yourself.
If you are that following car, you should be watching up ahead to anticipate heavy braking.


3) When passing without a passing lane (ie a couple of trucks doing 80km/h) and you don't feel comfortable going past both, consider just passing one.

Benefits
You keep the group tighter and moving along steadily.
You don't have to wait for such a big opportunity.

Things to note
Use common sense in passing safely. If you are unsure, go for safety.
If a vehicle is pulling over to the shoulder, they are INVITING you to go past. The great thing about this is that you can almost gaurentee the will let you in if needed.

4) If someone wants to pass you, let them if you can. If you think someone is doing something a bit silly, give them room. If in windy roads, don't block them out unless not doing so compromises your safety.

Benefits
Everyone goes home in a VR-4

Things to note
One of the things you need to think about is how fast the other person is going. If they are comming up fast and you pull out or brake hard, goodnight nurse.
If you are doing the passing, be cautious if you suspect the person in front is inexperianced.


You are not obliged to keep up if you feel uncomfortable with the pace (I'm addressing cornering mainly)

Benefits
Safety.

Things to note
Most of our cars have different handling characteristics. This is due to so many factors probably the most major of which are tyres and suspension. Some can go around corners faster than others. If you are "keeping up" then it is a good idea to think about this. It just may not be possible for your car to go as fast around corners.

To be continued... (through discussion, this will be added to and ammended)

GroundControl
28-06-2005, 06:01 AM
2) When pulling in after passing, look to see if someone is following you. If so, keep the hammer down as long as possible so that the following cars can safely slot in behind you. If you brake, the person behind has to not only brake to match your speed they have to slot into a gap under brakes. Also, if they were "catching up" as well, they are probably going faster than you were!!!
I was guilty of this on one occasion :embarasse (and I remembered that I shouldn't have done it as I did it).

Also, there was one passing lane we were going up, just before the gorge I think, which closed very suddenly right over the top of a rise (I didn't even see any passing-lane-ending signs). That resulted in a bit of heavy braking as we were travelling quite close together, traffic beside me in the inside lane, and a lane merge right on top of me (with oncoming traffic).

97_Legnum
28-06-2005, 06:24 AM
Great thread Ken, yes I agree for all of us to have fun and return safely that we should have some guide lines that we should work together in playing it safe.

We really do need feedback on this topic, because it's not only going to benefit us, but we have to take into consideration other public road users safety also.

When playing overtaking games, you shouldn't use your car to block them from passing you, or box them in behind other road users. Just let them go pass. I do admit, I did do a dangerous move passing a Van on the inside without any thought. But when I thought about it later, I may have potentionally killed someone who may have broken down and was sitting in that lane changing a flat tire. I can guarantee you this that my stupid monuver would have given the van driver a fright, and potentionally he could have slammed on his brakes because of it. Cause at the end of the day, I had no idea what was ahead of him and I couldn't see what was down the side lane.

Passing another vehicle then braking is a big no no. It's better to pass, get back in line, then lift off the accelerator to slow down and "not" touch the brake. Of course unless you have to because there's another car or truck.

As for using a passing lane, and your up front. It's best just to hammer down so that everyone can stay together, and hopefully pass all cars. Instead of leaving it for the last miunte and the others have to take higher risks to pass, and end up squezzing out Joe Public. Not a good image to do that, not when you're in a club. The last thing we need is people to say, "We got passed by all these VR4's and the *****rs think they own the roads".

Also, an idea I have to make things safer is this. When you are the car in front of another member, and you are going to make a passing move. Try look ahead and see if both of you can slot back in lane safely, without having to brake suddenly and potentionally leave the other member out in harms way. My suggestion is this, if you think you are the only able to do the passing move safely, but there will be no room for the car behind you. Flash your hazzard lights a couple of times, so that they know, you're going to pass and there will be no room for them to pass safely. This should also be for at the end of passing lanes where there's only room for one, and your mate behind you needs to stay back.

kornstar
28-06-2005, 06:25 AM
only a fool breaks the 2 second rule! lol

bradc
28-06-2005, 06:25 AM
Sam, that was 90% my fault, I didn't realise the passing lane was finishing either, and that damned peugeot cut across about 30m before the end of the passing lane.

I think it's ok if the straight is only long enough for one car to pass, we are in powerful cars and we can always make up ground.

At the same time, the leader shouldn't go flying off down the road if he/she knows there are some cars left quite a bit behind.

Kenneth
28-06-2005, 06:42 AM
Thanks for the feedback so far.

P.S. this isn't a fess up session, so don't worry if for some reason you transgressed. besides, its guidelines and in the end what really matters is that it was all good in the end.

This thread is designed for the future so that our ability to work well as a team on the road is furthered. Don't worry about the past, as it is past.

Kenneth
28-06-2005, 06:49 AM
Also, an idea I have to make things safer is this. When you are the car in front of another member, and you are going to make a passing move. Try look ahead and see if both of you can slot back in lane safely, without having to brake suddenly and potentionally leave the other member out in harms way. My suggestion is this, if you think you are the only able to do the passing move safely, but there will be no room for the car behind you. Flash your hazzard lights a couple of times, so that they know, you're going to pass and there will be no room for them to pass safely. This should also be for at the end of passing lanes where there's only room for one, and your mate behind you needs to stay back.

Yep, good idea.

Maybe we need 2 distinct sections... one of which deals with communication between vehicles.
Reason for that is I feel that this sort of "signal" can be anything, so long as it is visable and everyone understands it. For the example you used, the crowd I learnt with used to keep indicating right if it was safe to pass (even after pulling in) and then stop when they felt it was no longer safe.

Basically what I am trying to say is as long as you have a set of signals that everyone knows and can use, it doesn't matter what the signals are, so long as you have them.

Someone make up a set of signals and their meanings

maori_by_nature
28-06-2005, 07:14 AM
ok i just had a thought with the pasing thing and it was pesha that did it for me.... once u have passed a car and your back on your side of indecate right 2 show the it is clear for the car that is following 2 pass... just a thought.....

97_Legnum
28-06-2005, 07:30 AM
ok i just had a thought with the pasing thing and it was pesha that did it for me.... once u have passed a car and your back on your side of indecate right 2 show the it is clear for the car that is following 2 pass... just a thought.....
Yeah that's ok, only if the other car behind you following hasn't just followed you as soon as you took off. "Hope that makes sense"... lol

That nite of the run Ken and I were following Pescha back to Huntly. We came to the end of the express way, only I didn't know it was the end, and I was right along side a fuel tanker, Pescha got in front of the truck, but really she was the only one able to as there was a car in front of her. I had to basically go bumper to bumper with her, and the truck barraled onto my bumper. Because I didn't know the lane was merging and I couldn't see ahead of her. We could have had some pretty bad damage done.

p1_
28-06-2005, 12:31 PM
Great stuff guys & gals - makes it easier next time. Sounds like you had some fun.

Definately no passing on the left in my view /pan

Need to menttion some 'rear gunner' stuff too, not just for those on point trying to stay with them. I did some of this on the last run to Hamilton, cos I was carrying the whole Clark Clan with me :scholar:

Think its wise to put people on point with radar detectors too - you can never be too careful eh?

cheers

dreamer
28-06-2005, 11:11 PM
Also another signal would be if you need to break from the pack for whatever reason, to let the folks behind you not to follow you.

I was 3rd inline on the run from Bombays through to Hamilton, and at Ngaruawahia I had turn turn back to Auckland. If I'd stopped, the guys behind me might of stopped as well, then once I told them I'm out of the pack, they'd be quite abit behind the front pack. So I waited till I was in front of a truck, the remaining Cars behind the truck, got to a corner (where the back VR4's couldn't see me) and bailed down a lefthand side street, so I was out of the cruise and out of sight. Might of caused some confusion, but atleast the pack was still together. Cellphone numbers are always handy to!

Anyone own long range (2-3 KM) walkie talkies? I want to buy a pair in the next couple of months.

Cheers for the thread Kenny, very useful, was great to have a quick catch-up with you too, small world. See you guys at Pukekohe on the 17th. I'll just be a spectator. Enough of my thread high-jack

wirdy
28-06-2005, 11:25 PM
ok i just had a thought with the pasing thing and it was pesha that did it for me.... once u have passed a car and your back on your side of indecate right 2 show the it is clear for the car that is following 2 pass... just a thought.....

Very good thread.

I don't know whether this would be frowned upon by your NZ traffic cops but in convoy with pals, in the past, on fast sweeping 'A' roads, I've stayed out on the 'wrong' side of the road well after I've passed a slower car just to indicate to those following that the road ahead is still clear. Perhaps leaving your indicator on as well would help. When conflicting traffic appears, pull in sharply to show this too, or indicate back into the normal lane again.

This little system worked very well on fast but twisty roads in the Scottish borders.

You have to have some mutual trust in the leader, but there's safety built-in as long as you stay about 5 car lengths behind each other.

This only really works if you're driving cars of comparable performance.

Kenneth
28-06-2005, 11:41 PM
...
Anyone own long range (2-3 KM) walkie talkies? I want to buy a pair in the next couple of months.

Cheers for the thread Kenny, very useful, was great to have a quick catch-up with you too, small world. See you guys at Pukekohe on the 17th. I'll just be a spectator. Enough of my thread high-jack

Yeah, great to catch up with you!

Have been thinking about walkie-talkies. Probably need to go PRS something like this (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/42c1cd600aaeec12273fc0a87f990753/Product/View/D9029) should do the trick. A bit more expensive, but should actually work well. Also should be able to tune many trancievers into one channel.

As for breaking off from the group, thats an interesting point. If i had not known that you were bailing from the run early, we probably would have stopped to see what was up.

GroundControl
29-06-2005, 12:18 AM
I've used these up the mountain before (great for keeping in touch with people when you're skiing/boarding different runs) - I think they might have been the cheapie DSE ones (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/D1793).

We used them between cars on the way home too, and they worked no problems while driving in a group. I'm considering buying a couple myself.

Kenneth
29-06-2005, 12:42 AM
I've used these up the mountain before (great for keeping in touch with people when you're skiing/boarding different runs) - I think they might have been the cheapie DSE ones (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/D1793).

We used them between cars on the way home too, and they worked no problems while driving in a group. I'm considering buying a couple myself.

Cool. Started new thread (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=81255#post81255) to discuss this topic