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View Full Version : The Dreadead ATF Leak: Who'm I gonna Call??



bernmc
07-07-2005, 07:24 PM
EDIT 26/08/05: Anyone considering using VMTP, make sure you read to the end of this thread!

As the Sheffield Massive will know, my grandaddy slush-box is dribbling ATF. I suspect the usual TC seal as there's been no change in shift quality, and the box seems as sweet as ever.

Spoke to Xtreme, who I think have sorted a couple of member's gearboxes here. They use a bunch in Cannock - I suspect this must be VMTP (www.vmtp.com (http://www.vmtp.com))? Simon reckoned on around 7 hour's labour + send the thing to cannock + what ever it costs to fix. To be fair, Xtreme have charged me a reduced labour rate recently - still 45 quid an hour though /help.

So, the question is, do I let Xtreme sort it for me, or do I go to a box specialist direct? Anyone know if people like VMTP are happy to have the whole car, or just want the box?

Any other recommendations?

I did think of having a go at getting it out myself, but it's impractical, and would probably take me a week just to extract!

Nick Mann
07-07-2005, 09:49 PM
My box has been re-built at Competition Transmission Services, for £470. That was delivered as a box on a pallet, though, not with the car. They are in Markyate, Hertfordshire.

bernmc
08-07-2005, 12:45 PM
Spoke to VMTP in Cannock today, and they're happy to have the car in. Labour rate is 40/hour, which is a bit cheaper than Mitsi and Xtreme - even at Xtreme's reduced rate.

Car is booked in for the 18th when I get back from Forn Parts, so I'll keep y'all posted on how it goes.

Dream Weaver
13-07-2005, 04:42 PM
They did mine via the Xtreme workshop. Only problem was they told Xtreme if it needed any parts then they could not do it as it would mean ordering from Japan.......

Mine is a lot better (doesn't leak anyway) but I think the torque converter is past its best.

bernmc
18-07-2005, 01:53 PM
They did mine via the Xtreme workshop. Only problem was they told Xtreme if it needed any parts then they could not do it as it would mean ordering from Japan.......

Mine is a lot better (doesn't leak anyway) but I think the torque converter is past its best.

Do you still have the Xtreme invoice? It would be useful if you could post the breakdown here so we can compare.

I visited VMTP in Cannock today -1st impressions are very good - very friendly & helpful. Confirmed that the ATF was dribbling from the front of the bell housing, so likely to be the torque convertor seal.


Quote: (sorry - no pound sign on my yank notebook!)
274.00 to remove/replace the box (works out to around 7 hours labour at their 40/hour rate, which matches Xtremes estimate of time)
35.00 for new ATF
Cost of the seal, whatever that is.
40.00ish (1 hour labour) to replace the seal if that's all that needs doing.

So, provided they stick to those figures, it's not quite as bad as I expected. Provided they can get the seal, I should have the car back tomorrow - a 2 day turnaround, as opposed to the 5 quoted by Xtreme.

I'll keep you posted.

Polabear
21-07-2005, 12:12 PM
Provided they can get the seal, I should have the car back tomorrow - a 2 day turnaround, as opposed to the 5 quoted by Xtreme.

I'll keep you posted.

Seal is not a problem bernard, they are an off the shelf item...... :thumbsup: I sourced one for Skipjack last year.

bernmc
21-07-2005, 08:20 PM
Fffing thing- it never can be simple can it? Leak was not from the seal, it's from another bit that needed the box to be split... and they're still waiting for whatever bit it is :| :| Fume & spit.

And the trains are so safe these days.

bernmc
25-07-2005, 09:17 PM
The Final Bill:

Remove & Refit box: 273.00
Fit pump seal and O-ring: 160.00
Fluid: 35.00
Pump seal & O-ring: 27.00

+ something for Mr Brown :|

Grand total of GBP581.64 :o:o:o

Friendly, helpful bunch. Might charge a bit more if anyone else went, now that they know how much work it really is! Get a quote first!

And the plonkers put my wheels on the wrong sides - just happened to look at the tyres when I got to work after collecting the car - tread facing backwards :| Dozy buggers. Fortunately it was only a short trip, and all in traffic due to the piggin' M6 pile up pushing all the traffic onto local roads. Had to swap them over in the car park!

Other problem (I hope) is they must have spilled fluid onto the exhaust or turbo pipes, so I spent half the trip home driving in a cloud of smoke. Seems to have cleared up now, and I can't see anything dangling loose....

Edit (4/8/05): Went to put my K&N panel filter in the other day, and noticed that the buggers have also lost one of the screws that attaches the filter intake to the front of the engine bay :| Members may be best off getting Xtreme to do the removal & fitting... although Xtreme forgot to put my undertray back on at the last service!

richy rich
25-07-2005, 09:41 PM
lets hope all ok for you now pls keep us informed as my box is leeking to.
were was the leek was it on right looking from front just above a steel strut (or some thing metal any way)

SGHOM
25-07-2005, 11:24 PM
Grand total of GBP581.64 :o:o:o

...
beat ya !! :smug: £560 inc vat. /pan
broke my 'fin rocker cover though. /grr

bernmc
26-07-2005, 08:55 PM
beat ya !! :smug: £560 inc vat. /pan
broke my 'fin rocker cover though. /grr

But you are a well dodgy geezer!

Richy-soon-to-be-poorer - not sure where the leak was exactly - somewhere from the front of the box. I just saw the ATF puddle, had a quick squiz underneath, saw drops, and took it to the doctor. I figured I'd rather get it done now than run it dry at some point, and have to find a whole new box...

richy rich
27-07-2005, 10:36 PM
Richy-soon-to-be-poorer - not sure where the leak was exactly - somewhere from the front of the box. I just saw the ATF puddle, had a quick squiz underneath, saw drops, and took it to the doctor. I figured I'd rather get it done now than run it dry at some point, and have to find a whole new box...[/QUOTE]

thanks for that im dreding it. /Hmmm
how long were u without the car. /Hmmm

bernmc
27-07-2005, 11:30 PM
thanks for that im dreding it. /Hmmm
how long were u without the car. /Hmmm

In on Monday, done by Friday - some trouble getting hold of the o-ring which delayed things.

bernmc
13-08-2005, 03:35 PM
Following the saga here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10392&highlight=good+day), had a proper look under the car on thursday - MUCH ATF driblling, now from driveshaft seal on the driver's side, and possibly on the left. Back to VMTP on Friday (yesterday) - moaned about the other bit's like tyres on wrong way round, damaged ATF filler, missing airbox fixing etc.

They confirmed that the leak was from the driveshaft seals, and have kept the car to sort it out.

Can anyone confirm whether they would have had to remove the driveshafts when they originally took the box out ( I'm assuming they would) - I'd like to be well informed if the buggers try to charge me for doing the seals. Also, my CV boot was split when I got the car back... if they were messing with the driveshafts, they could potentially have done this too...?

I've got a couple of new CV boots arriving soon - does anyone in the West Mids/ Warks have the necessary cone etc for replacing these things?

wirdy
13-08-2005, 03:53 PM
Driveshafts have to be pulled out to do any work on the gearbox /yes

So, yep, the garage have probably caused the problems (if there was no evidence of them before). At the very least, they should have road tested the car & fully checked for leaks before giving it back to you.

/suspect they didn't clean the driveshafts off properly after refitting them? - hence, thought the fluid was residual and also missed the split gaitor. Pretty poor IMHO.

Oh, & if you need a CV boot spreader - they're much cheaper now - you can just buy one Like this one? (http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b1b1f43f790580150bb4226ad2881 ca6e175520.qQvJq2PEmlnva30O-BbQmkLz-ATzr6Lzn6rzqwTxpQOUc30KaNDNo6XKq6zInRmLa3mO8RbCpR0 HoA5Qmh0Kb2TNo6XK-kDvrA4Ka3eIqRnvp6iIpAjOp6jynQjM-AbJpgaLbxeKahmTbxiN8Oexo6XHngbynknvrkLOlQzNp65In0_ _?sc=9&category=125&it=A&id=7613)

bernmc
13-08-2005, 05:15 PM
Thought so :|

Incidently, how does that cone allow installation 'without splitting the drive train' - surely you still have to get the shaft out of the hub?

pezza
13-08-2005, 07:37 PM
just read thru this bern, sounds like its been a long drawn out saga... /grr

I have a feeling you wont go for the auto box should you ever get another VR4 :embarasse

Hope it gets sorted soon

wirdy
13-08-2005, 09:33 PM
Thought so :|

Incidently, how does that cone allow installation 'without splitting the drive train' - surely you still have to get the shaft out of the hub?

Yeah, They're being a little optimistic with that comment. I think what they're getting at is that you can leave the driveshaft in the gearbox end (thereby not losing all your oil onto the floor!), just removing the driveshaft nut and swinging it out of the hub.

I've not done a VR4 driveshaft gaitor before, but if it's anything like other cars - the outer CV joint can be removed with persuasion in the vice (it's sometimes held on by an internal circlip that you're supposed to replace), this boot spreader enables you to stretch the little end of the boot right over the cv joint, hence no need split the shaft.

If it was the garage who split your boot - was it in poor condition anyway?? (cracked / perished a bit?) I'd guess that just manhandling the shaft out could easily split a gaitor that was in it's twilight years anyway.

richy rich
13-08-2005, 10:49 PM
Following the saga here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10392&highlight=good+day), had a proper look under the car on thursday - MUCH ATF driblling, now from driveshaft seal on the driver's side, and possibly on the left. Back to VMTP on Friday (yesterday) - moaned about the other bit's like tyres on wrong way round, damaged ATF filler, missing airbox fixing etc.

They confirmed that the leak was from the driveshaft seals, and have kept the car to sort it out.

Can anyone confirm whether they would have had to remove the driveshafts when they originally took the box out ( I'm assuming they would) - I'd like to be well informed if the buggers try to charge me for doing the seals. Also, my CV boot was split when I got the car back... if they were messing with the driveshafts, they could potentially have done this too...?

I've got a couple of new CV boots arriving soon - does anyone in the West Mids/ Warks have the necessary cone etc for replacing these things?

this dosnt sound good i was going to take my car there to get my box sorted im having second thourts now.
pls keep me informed.

bernmc
17-08-2005, 04:38 PM
Got the car back today, and can't see any dribbles after the drive home (about 25miles).

I always think that the mark of a good company is not necesssarily that they get everything right - after all, sh*t happens - but what they do when things go wrong. In this respect, VMTP come tops - fixed without any quibbles, appologised profusely, and did it for nothing - I wasn't charged for the additional parts either. In addition to this, they fitted new CV gaiters to both shafts for nothing.

I suspect that having made mistakes on my car, they'll know what to look for on the next VR4, so they're probably worth a try again!

The only other disadvantage is that there's no courstesy car...

I'll post if I notice any other problems.

wirdy
17-08-2005, 05:38 PM
Good to hear. :thumbsup:

Nick Mann
17-08-2005, 06:39 PM
I always think that the mark of a good company is not necesssarily that they get everything right - after all, sh*t happens - but what they do when things go wrong. In this respect, VMTP come tops....

That says it all for me. I'd use 'em!

richy rich
18-08-2005, 09:07 PM
Got the car back today, and can't see any dribbles after the drive home (about 25miles).

I always think that the mark of a good company is not necesssarily that they get everything right - after all, sh*t happens - but what they do when things go wrong. In this respect, VMTP come tops - fixed without any quibbles, appologised profusely, and did it for nothing - I wasn't charged for the additional parts either. In addition to this, they fitted new CV gaiters to both shafts for nothing.

I suspect that having made mistakes on my car, they'll know what to look for on the next VR4, so they're probably worth a try again!

The only other disadvantage is that there's no courstesy car...

I'll post if I notice any other problems.
so good to hear that, ive been waiting for this news.
im going to phone them tomorow.

bernmc
26-08-2005, 07:15 PM
Feck, feck, fecken' feck.

ATF on the drive again :annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:!!!!

Stopped by Xtreme on the way home from work this morning and asked them to have a look on the ramp for me:

1. Passenger side driveshaft not seated correctly - sticking out about 10mm from the seal. :|

2. Very odd this: The passenger side inner CV boot was absolutely full of ATF!! Can anyone explain this? The blokes at Xtreme don't think that there is any communication between the box and the inner CV joint, but I can't understand how the stuff got in there! :huh: Ideas?

Anyway, I'm Fed Up (note the caps!) with VMTP, so I've booked the car in with Xtreme on Wednesday for sorting, and I'll send VMTP the bill.

My final advice to anyone considering using them is to get someone else to remove & replace the box!! They may know gearboxes, but they don;t seem to be able to do anything else right!

richy rich
26-08-2005, 07:50 PM
sorry to hear that bern but im glad you told me as i was going to use them.
my new way of doing this is get a box off mo and get it reconed if needed then exchange mine, recon my old one then sell it.

bernmc
26-08-2005, 08:31 PM
Just to clarify, it seems they are fine at actually doing the box itself - Xtreme use them for all their work. It's just the taking out and putting back that they can't seem to get right!

richy rich
26-08-2005, 08:37 PM
Just to clarify, it seems they are fine at actually doing the box itself - Xtreme use them for all their work. It's just the taking out and putting back that they can't seem to get right!
ok ill use them for recon but not in out

ghanda
01-10-2005, 08:50 PM
Feck. On the way up to Mo's today, I noticed a red puddle under the car at a service station. TBH, I've noticed it for a few weeks, but a quick glance and you assume it's your air-con dripping water. Unless you've just cleaned your drive...oil stains don't just re-appear :embarasse

It's booked in at Moto-cars in Newbury for a full oul flush and service...it's 99% the Torque seal...only problem is that I'm leaving on Friday for the 'Ring.

Fingers crossed!

HJM
01-10-2005, 09:08 PM
only problem is that I'm leaving on Friday for the 'Ring.

Fingers crossed!

Good luck matey - you don't want to be missing that trip :rolleyes4

richy rich
22-10-2005, 01:24 PM
well my box has finaly given up the ghost. /grr
pissing out atf out of the box .
the atf is coming out about central of the car were the brace bar is going front to back.
Q do i get a second hand box of mo and change it my self (any volenters to help) got plenty of space to do it dont now if ive got all the tools, doubt it.
or do i send it to exteme or some one else to do it (money a bit tight at mo).

Kieran
22-10-2005, 01:30 PM
well my box has finaly given up the ghost. /grr
pissing out atf out of the box .
the atf is coming out about central of the car were the brace bar is going front to back.

Yeah, sounds like the torque convertor seal has let go and screwed things up.

As for changing it.... Well, could be done, and at least that would be done properly, rather than letting the fumbos at VMTP near it.

You could use that place that Derek had his fixed at in Sheffield- they seemed to do a good job. Cost about £500 there...

richy rich
22-10-2005, 01:37 PM
thanks kieren i talked to derrik about who did his box when we moved pvx
and he said they dont want to do another one again.

SGHOM
22-10-2005, 03:21 PM
It's a job you could do yourself. /yes fitting a new box means removing the old one............. obviously ! :rolleyes4 & replacing the torque seal takes seconds, literally !
If the box is fine, just spend a tenner on the seal. /yes

richy rich
22-10-2005, 05:36 PM
It's a job you could do yourself. /yes fitting a new box means removing the old one............. obviously ! :rolleyes4 & replacing the torque seal takes seconds, literally !
If the box is fine, just spend a tenner on the seal. /yes
do you have a part No for the seal derrick or info on were i can get one is it a dealer job.

bernmc
22-10-2005, 08:00 PM
Just give mitsi a ring with your chassis number. Usually only takes a few days.

richy rich
22-10-2005, 08:13 PM
tar bern