braking

[HJM]

Timing Laps

Tut Tut Tut

I'm sure you have told me that your never time Laps as it is dangerous and pointless



And don't tell me that it was someone else who timed it

As it won't wash

PS.. Never passed me on track ??

Except when i been parked at the side

Never timed my laps - only refer to my video timer after a trackday.

Yes - passed you several times at RT3, well if you are gonna keep breaking your car and running out of fuel

[Beastlee]

ONt he way to work there is a mile long straight on which I have to take a left turn approx half way down. It is the only point you can safely overtake of the 6.4 mile journey and normally you will get stuck behind somone doing 30 in the 60 zone.
I have been using the turn to practice how the car handles and brakes , obviously only when nobody is likely to get hurt, and have found that I can brake from very very close to the turn and throw it round the bend without so much as a squeak from the tyres. I am restricted to practicing this up to the speed limit but I'm sure it would still be fine for another 20mph above it There are a couple of easy bends then into a tight left and right that require considerable braking too yet the brakes seem to cope fine with this with no fade at all.
The VR-4 just keeps on impressing me and I find that the grip and handling allow me to get to work faster and more efficiently as there is much less need to brake into the bends. THis in turn means that the average economy is not much less than I was getting in the SAAB for the same journey.

In answer to Kieran's question 'Going on from that, how does early, moderate braking exacerbate toasted pads and discs, brake fade, etc. versus standing on the brakes at the last second?' I think is answered by the physics of braking. We all know that braking relies on friction and that this generates heat that in turn boils the brake fluid and effects the make up of the pads.
If we take an example of a bend that requires you to drop from 80 to 30 you need to scrub 50mph either way. If you brake over a distance of 100m you are applying a lower pressure to the pedal than for a 50m stomp. In both cases there is heat generated however for the longer distance the heat is building up and may still reach the critical temperatures required to cause fade/boiling. For the 50m braking the same temperatures will be reached but for a much shorter time therefore having less overall effect on the components. The other factor is that over time the heat dissipates into all of the surrouinding components wheras the short sharp braking produces a single heat point that could be quickly cooled under acceleration.

I may be wrong in this conclusion but I'm sure someone can put it more accurately and succinctly.

[Simon]

You are all wrong









you need to be "trail Braking"!!!!!!!







Joke! This has been a funny thread.......well done Derek

[Wodjno]

You are all wrong

He He









you need to be "trail Braking"!!!!!!!







Joke! This has been a funny thread.......well done Derek

Wondered how long it would be before you chipped in


Your not as easy a catch as Heath

He takes much bigger bites than you

But then his car is Much faster yours so has more to defend

[Paul Beazer]

/stp /stp

[WildCards]

So, to sum up, the general concensus is that trackdays are for fun, so do what you want as long as it makes you happy.

Cool

[Spirit]

So, to sum up, the general concensus is that trackdays are for fun, so do what you want as long as it makes you happy.

Cool

Perfect.....and to add.....coming home in one piece is more important than lap times

[mitzitech2007]

i agree if you want to race full on and kill the other components of your car by extreame braking then thats cool but most of vr4 owners will probably agree that they will want to drive there car to work for the next couple of months after a track day till the next trip on a track day, not buying wheel bearing and all the other bits that will have a shorter life due to extreame heat generated by braking late. but still if you can afford to run your car like that thats cool!

[Ryan]

I stumbled across this thread whilst reading about "what's the big deal about brembos?"

I found it a very interesting read, especially the links about cornering.

Some comments which stood out for me were:

"Just because someone has driven round a track more times than someone else !! It doesn't mean they are faster or can drive it faster than those who haven't driven it as much "

Could not agree more on that - Ricardo Patrese, the most experienced F1 driver in history but he never won a championship. Case closed.

Second one that I came across:

"I don't agree with the VR4 is a beginners car "

I think the author meant "as a beginners..." but anyway... I had driven a couple of high performance cars prior to owning the VR-4, namely:

* E36 BMW M3
* 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo
* W140 S500 Mercedes Benz

But certainly never thrashed them because... well... they weren't mine! When I bought the VR-4, I knew what it was about but drove it cautiously for the first few weeks before really finding out just how good it was!

In fact, I would go so far as to say that this would be the *ideal* beginner's performance car because it has so many gadgets to save you from cocking up!

[Physician]

In fact, I would go so far as to say that this would be the *ideal* beginner's performance car because it has so many gadgets to save you from cocking up!

Hahaha! Well, as this thread has been resurrected I may as well comment.

I fully understand your comments about the VR4 being an ideal beginner's car Ingletor - it's something I've said in the past, however, it really does depend on your point of view.

I might say that I'm happy to let my middle aged wife drive my VR4 on a track, or my inexperienced elder brother, as the car has a number of advanced safety systems to assist them in staying on the hard stuff.

However, if I were to put on my 'Racing Driver Instructor' cap, then I would not want you to learn in a VR4 as you would not learn how a car normally acts. I want you to learn how to control skids etc.

It's a fact that whereas the AYC system is great for the average driver (and something I personally believe should be compulsory), a professional racing driver will outperform the AYC easily.

[Ryan]

Very good points Doctor and I agree with them.

[Subaru ETA]

yup the vr4 is a fun car to drive fast and not worry too much about ending up on your lid or something.

but i havent taken it on the track, only raced my mates s13 as its pretty primative compared to the vr4 and is alot more technical to drive

[SGHOM]

Ah the memories of a great thread

Should I ressurect it with my plans for donington a week on monday?

[Nick Mann]

errr......



No

[SGHOM]

errr......



No

oops sorry Nick. my bad.

I was going to do some brake temperature testing with Chris's thermogigerlywotsit thingy.
a couple of hot laps with steady braking.... then check disc temp & possibly wear if I can. then 2 laps of hard, agressive braking to see the difference.

But if you're not bothered

[Turbo_Steve]

VR-4 is a terrible car to learn to race in, as it goes very fast and will assist you until you really overcook it. Then it holds up it's hands and says "All the electronics in the world won't help you here, son" and you have no idea how you got there, how to fix it, etc etc

I have to confess, I though AYC would be a barrel of drifty slidey fun, but it's not: it spends a lot of time keeping the car composed and compensating for "idiot levels" but provoking it into slidey fun seems to require ridiculous levels of input and abuse...far more than a regular RWD car, or even a regular 4WD car. It's perfect for someone who ISN'T trying to race to go "pretty quick" on normal roads, as it allows you a margin for error, and even flashes lights to tell you it's doing it. For the track....I think the physical aspects of an early evo or a RWD monster are better: the 300zx was wider than several motorways, but could be tail happy to....and tended to slide very progressively. It also parked better than the VR-4 too LOL!

Don't get me wrong, the VR-4 is a truly awesome car, and I wouldn't change it for the world. But frankly if you're a real track day warrior, I can't see that this is the ideal car. Ultimate family run-about? Yes. RS4 worrier? Definitely. Autobahn master? Quite possibly...and I can see the point in taking it to a track and trying to go fast a few times. I just think if you want to go to the track a LOT and learn racing etc, you'll probably get more out of a 200SX or an old Mk1 MR-2 (These seriously rock for learning how to go fast!)