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Thread: Longer Ratios fitted - my thoughts

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    Longer Ratios fitted - my thoughts

    Well the EVO ratios are now in my car and I've done 200km with them in. This is a follow on from Kenneths post (number 87) on this topic.

    http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...t=21414&page=5

    I have attached a little chart showing what the stock is and what I now have. As you can see it is now possible to get to 100kmh in 2nd.

    To be honest I couldn't really tell any difference in acceleration between the original ratios and the new ratios. In saying that, my car isn't exactly stock. The only times I really knew that the gears were any different were:

    Changing out of second with just over 100kmh indicated on the speedo

    After changing out of second being at higher rpm in 3rd gear, making 3rd gear seem much shorter. Before changing out of 2nd at 7000rpm would see you in 3rd at 4680rpm, now after the change the engine is at 5050rpm. This is VERY noticable. When driving at normal aggressiveness levels, ie changing out of 2nd at 4000-5000rpm, 3rd still feels a lot shorter and feels...for want of a better word, 'sportier'. This is the biggest change imho.

    Now for the longer 5th, which is the original reason I started to research different ratios. I couldn't notice anything when driving in 5th. The revs are obviously a bit lower, but there was no difference in acceleration, pickup or lag that I could notice. I still ended up on the high side of 100mph passing 5 cars while keeping it in 5th the entire time. Apart from looking at the tacho there was no real way to tell. What I didn't notice however was that changing from 4th to 5th feels different. Changing at 70kmh isn't really an option when accelerating onto the motorway or another situation where you need to accelerate as quick as other cars, you need to be at about 85kmh or so to change into 5th now, otherwise the car does sound like it is being bogged down a bit. In saying that when in traffic on the motorway I regularly changed into 5th at 60kmh and just let the car build up speed which it did perfectly ok, without roughness or anything. I think that out on the open road going up hills where you'd normally be able to keep it in 5th gear down 95% of the time, you might need to change down into 4th a bit more.

    Overall I really recommend the ratio swap. 1st is still simply frantic as always even though it is a lot longer, but the main advantages are what I highlighted above, the longer 2nd that lets you get to 100kmh, the effective shortening of 3rd gear and the longer 5th for lower cruising rpm.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    djb160's Avatar

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    So whats the real 5th gear cruising rpm drop that as measured in car? Is this the same as Kenneths set?
    I'm not arguing...I'm just offering an endless series of contrary points of view.

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    Well in the original chart 3000rpm is 114kmh. In real life it is more like 5th at 3000rpm indicated is about 111-112kmh. Now it is about 3000rpm for 120kmh, and 2750rpm or so for 110kmh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradc
    Well the EVO ratios are now in my car and I've done 200km with them in. This is a follow on from Kenneths post (number 87) on this topic.

    http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...t=21414&page=5

    I have attached a little chart showing what the stock is and what I now have. As you can see it is now possible to get to 100kmh in 2nd.

    To be honest I couldn't really tell any difference in acceleration between the original ratios and the new ratios. In saying that, my car isn't exactly stock. The only times I really knew that the gears were any different were:

    Changing out of second with just over 100kmh indicated on the speedo

    After changing out of second being at higher rpm in 3rd gear, making 3rd gear seem much shorter. Before changing out of 2nd at 7000rpm would see you in 3rd at 4680rpm, now after the change the engine is at 5050rpm. This is VERY noticable. When driving at normal aggressiveness levels, ie changing out of 2nd at 4000-5000rpm, 3rd still feels a lot shorter and feels...for want of a better word, 'sportier'. This is the biggest change imho.

    Now for the longer 5th, which is the original reason I started to research different ratios. I couldn't notice anything when driving in 5th. The revs are obviously a bit lower, but there was no difference in acceleration, pickup or lag that I could notice. I still ended up on the high side of 100mph passing 5 cars while keeping it in 5th the entire time. Apart from looking at the tacho there was no real way to tell. What I didn't notice however was that changing from 4th to 5th feels different. Changing at 70kmh isn't really an option when accelerating onto the motorway or another situation where you need to accelerate as quick as other cars, you need to be at about 85kmh or so to change into 5th now, otherwise the car does sound like it is being bogged down a bit. In saying that when in traffic on the motorway I regularly changed into 5th at 60kmh and just let the car build up speed which it did perfectly ok, without roughness or anything. I think that out on the open road going up hills where you'd normally be able to keep it in 5th gear down 95% of the time, you might need to change down into 4th a bit more.

    Overall I really recommend the ratio swap. 1st is still simply frantic as always even though it is a lot longer, but the main advantages are what I highlighted above, the longer 2nd that lets you get to 100kmh, the effective shortening of 3rd gear and the longer 5th for lower cruising rpm.
    i'm a little puzzled... what did you change? all the gears???

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    We changed the gearset inside the gearbox. 3rd and 4th are the same, the others have different ratios

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    This was a direct fit into the VR-4 gearbox housing???

    And the final drive is stock standard???

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradc
    Well in the original chart 3000rpm is 114kmh. In real life it is more like 5th at 3000rpm indicated is about 111-112kmh. Now it is about 3000rpm for 120kmh, and 2750rpm or so for 110kmh.

    And 100kmh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by djb160
    And 100kmh?
    At a guess, 2500rpm seeing as 110kmh is 2750rpm.
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    djb160's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by elnevio
    At a guess, 2500rpm seeing as 110kmh is 2750rpm.

    Can you confirm that Brad?

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    Brad,

    You'll need to find me another set the same, I want to change the clutch over in the next 6 months and would like to also change the gear set over.


  11. #11
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    nice work Brad. Interesting report and much as to be expected

  12. #12
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    Yep. Nice to hear some more actual results rather just theory. Now hurry up and get some gt25r's.

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    Haggis - yep, they fit straight in.

    Dale - bang on 2500rpm

    Richard - Unlikely to find another one, but you can buy the 0.721 5th gears at any time from Ralliart, around $320 if I remember correctly.

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    Ok, just to clarify: What model EVO is the gearset out of? Do you know if all 5 speed EVO gearsets the same ratio? Do you need to change the Mainshafts, Cluster shaft and gears?

    Sorry for all the questions but it looks like my Facelift Leggy needs a new Clutch and I was thinking I could look into changing the Gearbox ratios while it was out. My biggest complaint with the VR-4 at the moment is how short 1st and 5th are.

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    Well I had two complete gearsets with the shafts and everything. The 1st and 2nd gears are part of the output shafts.

    All 5 speed evo 4-9 sets will fit, no problems at all. The ratios vary however. The only ones with the 0.721 5th are EVO 7's and 5 speed EVO 8's. All have the 1.95 2nd gear and either 2.928, 2.857, 2.785 1st gear.

  16. #16
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    ROFL

    The gear set that is now in my car has a straight cut 1st gear!

    First thought was "feck, something broken "
    But luckily I know enough about gearing that I recognised a straight cut gear, so went to 2nd, which was normal, then went back into 1st and just booted it up to 60km/h which is about 7kRPM

    Was awesome

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    Your new one is from an EVO RS and has the 2.785 1st. It will go up to 73 kmh in first

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradc
    Your new one is from an EVO RS and has the 2.785 1st. It will go up to 73 kmh in first
    Hmm, didn't seem to go that high when I was driving, though I must admit I was still looking at the road so didn't spend too much time looking at the speedo/revs.

    Now I don't like shifting into 2nd until I have to because it just sounds cool in 1st

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    Can someone explain what a"straight cut gear" is please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by djb160
    Can someone explain what a"straight cut gear" is please?
    In a standard gearbox, the gears are all cut in a helical pattern. While this isn't as strong a straight cut gears, it offers much improved noise characteristics.


    You know that high pitched whine that F1 cars make? Thats the gearbox, because they have stright cut gears.

    straight cut is stronger and has less parasitic drag, but it whines which is why they are usually only used in mortorsport.

    for some idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmJH84FnQa8

    The easiest way to think about it is it sounds like reverse, which is also a straight cut gear.

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