Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 83

Thread: Common tuning FAQ

  1. #1
    foxdie's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Jason
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday
    Membership ID
    518
    Posts
    5,030
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Car
    Silver PFL VR4
    My Garage
    Visit
     

    Common tuning FAQ

    Hi all

    This thread has been created to address commonly asked questions in relation to tuning EC5A (Galant VR-4) and EC5W (Legnum) cars. The questions answered here are aimed at those asking if something is possible, or to tuners starting out with little experience.

    There are some questions that, when asked, you may receive a cold shoulder to. This is because, although not apparent to yourself, the answer is never simple nor practical. This is just a forewarning to expect a bad response to some questions but not to take it personally

    1. If I send you my cars ROM, can you set it to run at such-and-such boost?

    There are 2 reasons this is a poor question;
    1. As our cars don't have a MAP sensor, engine performance calculations are done based on a perceived Load, this is a calculation the ECU does based on a number of factors such as how much air is passing by the MAF sensor, what temperature etc. It is not directly related to manifold pressure (aka "boost" and "vacuum").
    2. Every car differs, even before it's left the factory they could differ slightly due to tolerances in manufacturing process, and once it's left the factory it's a free-for-all on how the car changes, factors such as servicing, how the car is treated etc all cause differences.

    In short, it's impossible to tune a car to run at a specific amount of boost, and close to impossible to get it to run close to that figure without mapping it in person.

    There is a similar question that often comes in that has both the above answered factored into it and some more;

    2. Can you send me a ROM that gives me an extra 40 HP?

    Asking for pre-tuned images for use on your (or anothers) car is a very bad idea. It's unreliable, often dangerous, but always downright lazy. Asking for a previously-tuned image so you can learn from it isn't so widely frowned upon, but it's still encroaching on something that someone else has invested time in preparing.

    Also, there's no such thing as a ROM that gives you an extra "something" HP, as stated earlier, every car is different and requires it's own unique map to make the most of it and handle it's subtle differences that can often result in vast differences.

    Here is a theoretical example; 3 identical cars all leave the factory supposedly tuned to 260 HP could meet up 5 years later and put on a dyno;
    • Car 1 makes 230 HP because it's been serviced poorly
    • Car 2 makes 250 HP due to natural wear/tear/age
    • Car 3 makes 265 HP because its fuel pump is failing causing the car to run leaner than intended

    If I was to create a generic ROM image that ups the target load (ie. loosely how much extra boost to apply) by an additional 15%, it could have the following effects on the above cars;
    • Car 1 makes 240 HP because gains were harder to achieve due to poor servicing
    • Car 2 responds well and makes a respectable 280 HP
    • Car 3 briefly makes 290 HP before excessive knock causes the engine to die

    In addition to this, asking for gains such as +40 HP is a pipe dream unless you have sufficient backing in your wallet for supporting mods. Lets say you're tuning a manual or a facelift auto, you're already starting with 280 HP (well, 276 HP for the pedantic), if you want +40 HP on top of that (320 HP) you've already exceeded what the fuel pump can deliver, and you're also close to the usable limit of our TD03 turbos.

    Some people claim you don't need to upgrade the fuel pump before you ready the limit of the turbos, however that's if the fuel pump and pressure regulator are in perfect working order, which after 10-15 years is highly unlikely. If you're gonna ask for 320 HP out of a VR-4, it's highly recommended you invest in good supporting mods; Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, intercooler, exhaust system and performance air filter. You also need to start thinking about cooling if you plan on running 320 HP for extended periods (such as on track days). Once and only when you've done that, you will definitely need the ECU tuning to suit the modifications.

    Here's a nice example of that last point about reflashing after the modifications have been done, using the stock fuelling table after installing my fuelling modifications (Walbro GSS342 255 LPH fuel pump and a Sytec Fuel Pressure Regulator) I actually LOST power because the car was running significantly richer (AFRs of around 7-8 under WOT). I've had to set those matching entries in the fuelling table to around 12.5-13 just to bring the fuelling up to a safe 10.5-11.0 (and still I feel there's still power to be had by leaning it out to 11.5). I feel my "tune" is circa 320 HP, an upcoming dyno day will confirm that, however if my ROM was to be flashed onto a car without those fuelling mods, I'd be very surprised if it didn't go bang.

    3. Can you lean out my cruise for better economy?

    As of March 2012, not by a reflash, the ECU is set to match 0.5V from the lambda sensor but as of yet the location of this value in the ROM is undetermined. And if / when it does become possible the benefits won't be safely usable.

    Stock narrowband oxygen / lambda sensors output a voltage signal between 0-1V with the stoichiometric air-fuel mixture of 14.7:1 being around 0.5V, there is very little room to change this because the change can often be very sharp (here is a very optimistic narrowband graph), if you were to aim for 14.9:1 the voltage would be around 0.2V, not leaving much room between potentially running much leaner.

    It's fairly well adopted that a cruise AFR of around 15.2:1 is beneficial to fuel economy on 8G VR-4s, the only safe way to achieve this is to use either a wideband kit (such as the Innovate LC-1 or MTX-L), or a fuelling computer, that has a programmable narrowband emulation.

    That said, economy benefits can be had by advancing timing a few degrees (no more) around the cruise areas.

    4. What ECU do I have? Can it be reflashed?

    The following is correct as of March 2012;

    7201 - Silver metal casing with green connectors - Commonly found on Pre-facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU, requires MMCFlash USB Module #1 to do the flashing

    H8/539 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Fairly rare and straddled the Pre-facelift and Facelift switch - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU, requires MMCFlash USB Module #1 to do the flashing

    7202 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Commonly found on early Facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM and flash, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU

    7203 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Commonly found on late Facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM and flash, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU

    Links:

    5. Can my ECU use another ROM and/or have mods / switchable maps?

    Again, as of March 2012;

    7201 - This ECU can only run ROM images specifically built for the 7201, basic tuning can be done such as raising the boost / fuel cut threshold, adjusting fuelling / timing and boost control

    All others (the H8/539, 7202 and 7203) - These ECUs can all interchange ROM images, and in addition to the above basic tuning they also support Kenneths ECU mods.

    Kenneth has released 2 ROMs that add additional features:
    • v1.x that adds switchable anti-lag / launch control / flat shifting / CEL-on-knock - link
    • v2.x that adds 8 switchable maps and CEL-on-knock, with 8 unique Fuel / Ignition Timing / Boost Control tables that are interchangeable with the switchable maps - link


    6. Can I swap ECUs?

    Yes, but only if you flash the correct ROM image and follow this truth table;
    • All VR-4 engine ECUs are compatible with manual VR-4s, regardless of what VR-4 it came from
    • Engine ECUs from automatic cars with TCL are compatible with all VR-4s
    • Engine ECUs from automatic cars without TCL may have problems if put into an automatic car with TCL
    • Engine ECUs from manual cars may have problems if put into an automatic car (either with or without TCL)

    I say "may have problems" because it's unclear given so many different PCB revisions if the pins for TCL or auto ECU communication are connected internally to the processor.

    More questions will appear here later, watch this space
    Last edited by foxdie; 24-04-2012 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Bumped to allow editing later
    Want your car tuning? Here's my pricing
    Have questions about performance upgrades and ECU tuning? Before PM'ing me, Check this thread first
    Please support CVR4 & become a Full member, you get a full years access to guides, games, chat & much more!

  2. #2

    Offline
     
    Name
    Lauri
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Online
    31-10-2018
    Posts
    444
    Country
    Other
    Location
    Finland
    Car
    Galant Vr4
     
    I still disagree about the fuel pump and regulator. And no need for air filter, you dont even need the sport type k&n that fill the place of the original one. But maybe this isnt the place to talk about it

    And when it comes to fuel economy, every car seems to be an invidual too
    -00 Galant Vr4 Type-V
    + Equipped with Type-S arches, genuine wind deflectors. only thing missing is the sunroof
    + Red interior with recaro front seats
    + Momo steering wheel
    + 600x300 FMIC, Custom hardpipes
    + Custom Downpipe+ Fujitsubo Legalis Super R slighlty modified/Custom catback + custom decat + Custom air intake with big K&N cone filter
    + BC Racing Coilovers
    + Advan RCII 17"x7,5 rims
    + Flexifuel /Gasoline + Ethanol E85, 850 cc injectors
    + Manual conversion with evo clutch (a standard clutch)
    + 2 x TD04-13T
    + Adam's 262 -cams
    + Xenon -projectors
    + Carbon fibre hood
    + About 450bhp/ 570Nm at the moment....with stock internals and clutch...

  3. #3
    VR457's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    jamil
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Online
    Posts
    1,394
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham
    Car
    Legnum PfL
     
    Sounds like a lot of frustration for you but educational for me at least. Putting it across this way helps me understand the real issue without which i would be asking numpty questions too.

  4. #4
    ersanalamin's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Ersan
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Last Online
    21-01-2024
    Posts
    754
    Country
    Other
    Location
    Jakarta
    Car
    EC5A
     
    I am one of other to ask u the same question, you dont have to be upset about the question, You dont have to lecture me about every engine uniqueness I do really understand that every engine is unique. the reason I ask u the question is to make some comparation of what i ve done to my work, and discus of with u of what u ve done in more detail and create my own tuning. and i am not stupid enough to flash ur work into my own ECU. One of my problem is there are many vr4base out there to download in i m quite confuse what vr4base.xml to download to suit my need. I even cant follow the merlin guidance precisely when I saw in his tutorial that he used different vr4base.xml to mine and also showed different STOCK ROM mapping than my STOCK ROM ECU. Merlin also didnt give a clear clue about how to tune factory boost ECU, I cant even find the definition of BDEL in his guidance when i try to tune factory boost, different interface definition i guess.

    So u can show us the tuned stock rom mapping that offer additional 40 hp and let us to decide what to do about it, or at least you can share with us the latest vr4base.xml that offer factory boost tuning interface if u dont mind.

    I hope ur refusal is nothing to do with copyright because this is what the forum is use for, and i also believe that u already use someone else works to do your tune, beside this is for personal use dont worry.
    Last edited by ersanalamin; 20-03-2012 at 09:54 PM.

  5. #5
    VR457's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    jamil
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Online
    Posts
    1,394
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham
    Car
    Legnum PfL
     
    Quote Originally Posted by VR457 View Post
    Sounds like a lot of frustration for you but educational for me at least. Putting it across this way helps me understand the real issue without which i would be asking numpty questions too.
    But i would leave the work to you seeing as i would have no clue where to start if i had to tinker with it myself.

  6. #6
    foxdie's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Jason
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday
    Membership ID
    518
    Posts
    5,030
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Car
    Silver PFL VR4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by lateshow View Post
    I still disagree about the fuel pump and regulator. And no need for air filter, you dont even need the sport type k&n that fill the place of the original one. But maybe this isnt the place to talk about it
    This probably falls into the realm of an individuals feelings, personally I feel it's pushing certain parts way beyond spec prompting disaster, if you uprate those basic parts you could be adding increased tolerance against something going bang.

    Quote Originally Posted by lateshow View Post
    And when it comes to fuel economy, every car seems to be an individual too
    Indeed it is

    Quote Originally Posted by VR457 View Post
    Sounds like a lot of frustration for you but educational for me at least. Putting it across this way helps me understand the real issue without which i would be asking numpty questions too.
    Quote Originally Posted by ersanalamin View Post
    I am one of other to ask u the same question, you dont have to be upset about the question, You dont have to lecture me about every engine uniqueness I do really understand that every engine is unique.
    I'd like to state that I'm not angry or frustrated, it's just the same questions keep coming up again and again and instead of having to retype several times, I can just refer people to this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ersanalamin View Post
    the reason I ask u the question is to make some comparation of what i ve done to my work, and discus of with u of what u ve done in more detail and create my own tuning. and i am not stupid enough to flash ur work into my own ECU.
    Okay, I understand that, but the impression you gave in your PM was you were trying to cut corners. I don't want to see you or anyone elses engine go pop

    Quote Originally Posted by ersanalamin View Post
    One of my problem is there are many vr4base out there to download in i m quite confuse what vr4base.xml to download to suit my need. I even cant follow the merlin guidance precisely when I saw in his tutorial that he used different vr4base.xml to mine and also showed different STOCK ROM mapping than my STOCK ROM ECU. Merlin also didnt give a clear clue about how to tune factory boost ECU, I cant even find the definition of BDEL in his guidance.
    Now that I can appreciate, there are many versions and we're still waiting for Bill and Steve to clean up the definitions, I also appreciate that it's difficult to find stock ROMS. I have a collection of ROMs I know to be original, it's finding a place to host them that a). is reliable and b). won't have Mitsubishi sue my ass for because it's technically their intellectual property.

    Regarding the tuning guide, is it worth one of us doing another one once the definition files are cleaned up?

    Quote Originally Posted by ersanalamin View Post
    So if u cant show me the tuned stock rom mapping that offer additional 40 hp, at least you can share with me the latest vr4base.xml that offer factory boost tuning if u dont mind. This is for personal use dont worry.
    Again, can't provide a tuned one, and may get in trouble for posting these but here are all the stock ROMs and definitions I have collected;

    Definitions
    ROM Images

    The following ROMs in that zip file have been verified from multiple sources to be genuine and stock;
    • Default V6 7202 Auto (161HP).hex
    • Default V6 7203 Auto (158HP).hex
    • Default VR-4 7201 Auto TCL.hex
    • Default VR-4 7202 Auto Non-TCL.hex
    • Default VR-4 7202 Auto TCL.hex
    • Default VR-4 H8-539 Auto.hex

    There's one manual ROM in there I found on EvoScan.com, to be honest I've only used it once, I switched to Kenneths KS Mods 1.x release shortly afterwards.

    Hope this helps!

  7. #7

    Offline
     
    Name
    Sean
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    16-03-2024
    Posts
    1,381
    Country
    New Zealand
    Location
    Mount Maunganui
    Car
    Legnum VR4
     
    because i know just about nothing about tuning, or the ecus in our cars, what could be done with a pfl manual vr4 ecu, assuming its the 7201 because of the metal casing, and if nothing is possible, can fl ecus be put straight it if i could find one?

  8. #8
    adaxo's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Adam
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Online
    02-03-2024
    Posts
    5,190
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Worsley
    Car
    EC5W
     
    Quote Originally Posted by SEAN-NZ View Post
    can fl ecus be put straight it if i could find one?

    Yes, IMO the easiest and simplest way is to fit FL ecu and then start tweaking, but I probably know not much more than you
    His FL Legnum VR4 running 238.8 ATW HP and 500Nm @1.05 bar on LPG
    Hers PFL Legnum VR4 COTY see here for full story
    Looking for AMSoil? click here

    living in north west?
    would you like to meet with other VR4 fanatics?
    click here

    My recent and ex Mitsubishi's


  9. #9

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dee
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    06-04-2013
    Posts
    65
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Kings Langley
    Car
    P/F VR4
     
    I got £14.63...now, can we have a liddle chat Jason....?...its cash...

  10. #10
    ersanalamin's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Ersan
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Last Online
    21-01-2024
    Posts
    754
    Country
    Other
    Location
    Jakarta
    Car
    EC5A
     
    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    Definitions
    ROM Images

    The following ROMs in that zip file have been verified from multiple sources to be genuine and stock;
    • Default V6 7202 Auto (161HP).hex
    • Default V6 7203 Auto (158HP).hex
    • Default VR-4 7201 Auto TCL.hex
    • Default VR-4 7202 Auto Non-TCL.hex
    • Default VR-4 7202 Auto TCL.hex
    • Default VR-4 H8-539 Auto.hex

    There's one manual ROM in there I found on EvoScan.com, to be honest I've only used it once, I switched to Kenneths KS Mods 1.x release shortly afterwards.

    Hope this helps!
    Thanks for sharing, Manual ROM found on EvoScan.com is published by mitsiman

  11. #11
    foxdie's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Jason
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday
    Membership ID
    518
    Posts
    5,030
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Car
    Silver PFL VR4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by SEAN-NZ View Post
    because i know just about nothing about tuning, or the ecus in our cars, what could be done with a pfl manual vr4 ecu, assuming its the 7201 because of the metal casing, and if nothing is possible, can fl ecus be put straight it if i could find one?
    Another commonly asked question. As of March 2012, here is the current state of being able to reflash VR-4 engine ECUs;

    7201 - Silver metal casing with green connectors - Commonly found on Pre-facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU, requires MMCFlash USB Module #1 to do the flashing

    H8/539 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Fairly rare and straddled the Pre-facelift and Facelift switch - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU, requires MMCFlash USB Module #1 to do the flashing

    7202 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Commonly found on early Facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM and flash, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU

    7203 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Commonly found on late Facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM and flash, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU

    Links:
    To answer your question on what can be done with the 7201, I'm gonna open that up to all the ECUs;
    • 7201 can only run ROM images specifically built for the 7201, basic tuning can be done such as raising the boost / fuel cut threshold, adjusting fuelling / timing and boost control
    • H8/539, 7202 and 7203 can all interchange ROM images, in addition to the above basic tuning, Kenneth has released 2 ROMs that add additional features:
      • v1.x that adds switchable anti-lag / launch control / flat shifting / CEL-on-knock (link)
      • v2.x that adds 8 switchable maps and CEL-on-knock, with 8 unique Fuel / Ignition Timing / Boost Control tables that are interchangeable with the switchable maps

    And to answer your question whether ECUs can be swapped out, the answer is yes if you flash the correct ROM image and if you understand this truth table;
    • All engine ECUs can be put into manual cars, regardless of gearbox or TCL status
    • Engine ECUs from automatic cars with TCL can be put into any car too
    • Engine ECUs from automatic cars without TCL may have problems if put into an automatic car with TCL
    • Engine ECUs from manual cars may have problems if put into an automatic car (either with or without TCL)

    I say "may have problems" because it's unclear given so many different PCB revisions if the pins for TCL or auto ECU communication are connected internally to the processor.

    This should hopefully help

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipperdydoda View Post
    I got £14.63...now, can we have a liddle chat Jason....?...its cash...
    Oh my, you're flush aren't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ersanalamin View Post
    Thanks for sharing, Manual ROM found on EvoScan.com is published by mitsiman
    Yep it was, but until I see it again in the wild on a "virgin" ECU, I'm not going to presume it's a known-stock ROM image
    Last edited by foxdie; 21-03-2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Reworked the truth table

  12. #12
    Gowf's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Gareth
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    27-02-2024
    Membership ID
    338
    Posts
    2,287
    Country
    England
    Location
    St Albans
    Car
    Legnum VR4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    Hi all,

    I feel I need to create this thread so that those with the tools to remap ECUs don't keep asking clueless questions. Those of us who do have a measure of sense of what we're doing get frustrated by questions like these, we spend time researching and conferring with other tuners to learn. We don't just ask for pre-tuned ROMs unless we already know how to implement close to if not an identical tune.

    Here are some frequently asked questions and why, when asked, you're likely to not receive a straight answer;



    There are 2 reasons this isn't a good type of question;
    1. As our cars don't have a MAP sensor, engine performance calculations are done based on a perceived Load, this is a calculation the ECU does based on a number of factors such as how much air is passing by the MAF sensor, what temperature etc. It is not directly related to manifold pressure (aka "boost" and "vacuum").
    2. Every car differs, even before it's left the factory they could differ slightly due to tolerances in manufacturing process, and once it's left the factory it's a free-for-all on how the car changes, factors such as servicing, how the car is treated etc all cause differences.

    In short, it's impossible to tune a car to run at a specific amount of boost, and close to impossible to get it to run close to that figure without mapping it in person.

    There is a similar question that often comes in that has both the above answered factored into it and some more;



    Asking for pre-tuned images for use on your (or anothers) car is a no-go. It's unreliable, often dangerous, and always downright lazy. Asking for a previously-tuned image so you can learn from it isn't so widely frowned upon, but it's still encroaching on something that someone else has invested time in preparing.

    Also, there's no such thing as a ROM that gives you an extra ??? HP, as stated earlier, every car is different and requires it's own unique map to make the most of it and handle it's subtle differences that can often result in vast differences.

    An example is this; 3 identical cars all leave the factory supposedly tuned to 260 HP could meet up 5 years later and put on a dyno;
    • Car 1 makes 230 HP because it's been serviced poorly
    • Car 2 makes 250 HP due to natural wear/tear/age
    • Car 3 makes 265 HP because its fuel pump is failing causing the car to run leaner than intended

    If I was to create a generic ROM image that ups the target load (ie. loosely how much extra boost to apply) by an additional 15%, it could have the following effects on the above cars;
    • Car 1 makes 240 HP because gains were harder to achieve
    • Car 2 makes a respectable 280 HP
    • Car 3 briefly makes 290 HP before excessive knock causes the engine to die

    In addition to this, asking for gains such as +40 HP is a pipe dream unless you have sufficient backing in your wallet for supporting mods. Lets say you're tuning a manual or a facelift auto, you're already starting with 280 HP (well, 276 HP for the pedantic), if you want +40 HP on top of that (320 HP) you've already exceeded what the fuel pump can deliver, and you're also close to the usable limit of our TD03 turbos.

    If you're gonna ask for 320 HP out of a VR-4, you're gonna need good supporting mods; Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, intercooler, exhaust system and performance air filter. You also need to start thinking about cooling if you plan on running 320 HP for extended periods (such as on track days). Once and only when you've done that, you will definitely need the ECU tuning to suit the modifications.

    Here's a nice example of that last point, using the stock fuelling table after installing my fuelling modifications (Walbro GSS342 255 LPH fuel pump and a Sytec Fuel Pressure Regulator) I actually LOST power because the car was running significantly richer (AFRs of around 7-8 under WOT). I've had to set those matching entries in the fuelling table to around 12.5-13 just to bring the fuelling up to a safe 10.5-11.0 (and still I feel there's still power to be had by leaning it out to 11.5). I feel my "tune" is circa 320 HP, an upcoming dyno day will confirm that, however if my ROM was to be flashed onto a car without those fuelling mods, I'd be very surprised if it didn't go bang.



    As of March 2012, not by a reflash, the ECU is set to match 0.5V from the lambda sensor but as of yet the location of this value in the ROM is undetermined. And if / when it does become possible the benefits won't be safely usable.

    Stock narrowband oxygen / lambda sensors output a voltage signal between 0-1V with the stoichiometric air-fuel mixture of 14.7:1 being around 0.5V, there is very little room to change this because the change can often be very sharp (here is a very optimistic narrowband graph), if you were to aim for 14.9:1 the voltage would be around 0.2V, not leaving much room between potentially running much leaner.

    It's fairly well adopted that a cruise AFR of around 15.2:1 is beneficial to fuel economy on 8G VR-4s, the only safe way to achieve this is to use either a wideband kit (such as the Innovate LC-1 or MTX-L), or a fuelling computer, that has a programmable narrowband emulation.

    That said, economy benefits can be had by advancing timing a few degrees (no more) around the cruise areas.
    This maybe isnt the place to say this either, but you are talking in very generic and somewhat confusing terms when looking at cruise. A lambda value of 1, is used because of exhaust emission legislation. You DO get maximum economy (if we want to use this term) at a lambda of 1.1, however due to NOx issues this is not deemed acceptable (although there are ways of resolving this issue). Advancing the timing around the cruise areas may or may not improve your economy, leaner mixtures burn slower and so you find that you have to put more timing in for them, BUT.... you have to weigh in what the manufacturer has already put in place there (along with other factors such as speed, charge temp, etc). All in all, you have to remember that manufacturers have teams of people that spend months creating these maps, and do so for a reason, so changing these settings without true thought into why things do what they do can be quite detrimental.

  13. #13

    Offline
     
    Name
    Daniel
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    15-03-2023
    Posts
    2,695
    Country
    New Zealand
    Car
    8G VR4 + Colt
     
    Jason - I have a 7203 MD340289 ECU that apparently is from a late PFL (however it may have been changed) - I can attempt to pull the image off this for you if you like. It's stock as far as I know.

    Also - TCL seems to work just fine with it. Again, maybe this actually IS from a PFL auto that had TCL - but I can't be sure.

    Once I get ECUFlash allowing me to download the image with my VAGCOM modified cable, I'll post up the image.

  14. #14

    Offline
     
    Name
    Bill
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    20-07-2022
    Posts
    152
    Country
    Australia
    Car
    2000 Galant
     
    Vagcom cable will not work with ecuflash.

    Ecuflash needs a j2534 compatible, not ftdi.

    As for tcl, you enable or disable it for a rom, ecu periphery0 bit 13 is what you want to play with.

    There's a few tables if found that only work when this bit is set.

  15. #15

    Offline
     
    Name
    Daniel
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    15-03-2023
    Posts
    2,695
    Country
    New Zealand
    Car
    8G VR4 + Colt
     
    Damn, well that's that idea out the window - guess I need to get a hold of an OpenPort cable.

    TCL does seem to work with this ECU - although I haven't really tried to lose traction just yet

  16. #16
    foxdie's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Jason
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday
    Membership ID
    518
    Posts
    5,030
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Car
    Silver PFL VR4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by BCX View Post
    Vagcom cable will not work with ecuflash.

    Ecuflash needs a j2534 compatible, not ftdi.

    As for tcl, you enable or disable it for a rom, ecu periphery0 bit 13 is what you want to play with.

    There's a few tables if found that only work when this bit is set.
    The weird thing here is that although EcuFlash requires an OpenPort 2.0 (j2534) cable to reflash, MMCFlash can use the 1.3U (FTDI) cable, it permits this by pausing to wait for you to apply +16V to +18V to the EFI (Engine) ECU reflashing pin (aka boot pin) on the 12-pin connector. I'm not sure if +12V will suffice (ie. you can't just use the car battery voltage), the OpenPort 2.0 probably has a built-in voltage step-up converter.

    There's more details in this thread

    As VAGCOM cables typically have problems accessing the AYC and ABS ECUs (because you have to ground pin 1), I would say that these cheap cables cannot successfully reflash the EFI ECU, and even if they managed to start the flash process, they could potentially brick the ECU.

    I have a couple of N/A V6 ECUs (one I had previously, one a gift from Jamil), they can be reflashed when plugged into the VR-4 wiring loom, I don't mind risking toasting my one to test this theory if someone has an OpenPort 1.3U and a generic VAGCOM cable I can test with?

  17. #17
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    Jason - I have a 7203 MD340289 ECU that apparently is from a late PFL (however it may have been changed) - I can attempt to pull the image off this for you if you like. It's stock as far as I know.

    Also - TCL seems to work just fine with it. Again, maybe this actually IS from a PFL auto that had TCL - but I can't be sure.

    Once I get ECUFlash allowing me to download the image with my VAGCOM modified cable, I'll post up the image.
    it sound like you have had a replacement ECU fitted to your car.
    i believe 7203 ecu were only factory fitted to FL's from about 2001 ish.

    Bye for Now!

  18. #18

    Offline
     
    Name
    Daniel
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    15-03-2023
    Posts
    2,695
    Country
    New Zealand
    Car
    8G VR4 + Colt
     
    Jason - if pin 9 is pulled or disconnected, and pin 1 and 4 are bridged either permanently or with a switch, AYC and ABS can be accessed perfectly fine. You would need the extra connector for applying voltage to the ECU for flashing though - which you normally get with the OP's.

    Dave - I swapped it out for an ECU I bought that was apparently from a late PFL. It also definitely says on top MD340289.
    The factory one I had was a 7201.

  19. #19
    foxdie's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Jason
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday
    Membership ID
    518
    Posts
    5,030
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Car
    Silver PFL VR4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    Jason - if pin 9 is pulled or disconnected, and pin 1 and 4 are bridged either permanently or with a switch, AYC and ABS can be accessed perfectly fine. You would need the extra connector for applying voltage to the ECU for flashing though - which you normally get with the OP's.

    Dave - I swapped it out for an ECU I bought that was apparently from a late PFL. It also definitely says on top MD340289.
    The factory one I had was a 7201.
    Hi Dan,

    I was actually referring to reflashing with a VAGCOM cable, those stupidly cheap (ie. under £15) cables found on ebay.

    Are you 110% sure that you can access the AYC ECU with Pin 1 hard-connected to Pin 4? It should be using Pin 1 to init those ECUs.

  20. #20

    Offline
     
    Name
    Bill
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    20-07-2022
    Posts
    152
    Country
    Australia
    Car
    2000 Galant
     
    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    Are you 110% sure that you can access the AYC ECU with Pin 1 hard-connected to Pin 4? It should be using Pin 1 to init those ECUs.
    pin 1 initialises any ecu that is on the k-line bus (TCU, AYC, EFI, ABS, ACD)

    As part of the 5-baud init, you send a unique address. this specifies what module will communicate.

    as for reflashing, reflash connector has a dedicated pin for each module that can be reflashed. In our vr4, this internally joins to the flmcr pin of the H8 to provide it with a voltage to burn the rom (remove read only protection) and gets the rom to boot the flash kernel.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Tuners/service in the Nottingham/Chesterfield/Sheffield area
    By UKPonchoMan in forum General / Questions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 31-10-2011, 12:44 AM
  2. Top 10 Questions - The Questions
    By BraindG in forum General / Questions
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 20-08-2010, 01:42 AM
  3. Who knows anything about TV Tuners????
    By DUNLY in forum General Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 13-02-2007, 01:20 AM
  4. J-Tuners up for grabs
    By BraindG in forum NZ Chat
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 15-09-2005, 01:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •