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Thread: Common tuning FAQ

  1. #61
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    Whilst on the subject, has anyone got an mmcflash module #1 for sale, cheaper than brand new? Or is it a license you purchase from evoscan?
    I have 7201 and OP 1.3u for logging.
    Only problem is I understand that I can't read ecu with this setup? Would need an OP 2.0 to read Ecu?

  2. #62
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    MMCFlash is a usb dongle and license key combo.
    Ex: Galant VR4
    Running 268 HP ATW and 443 Nm torque at 0.9 bar
    Now: Lancer Evolution 8 FQ-300
    Running 325 HP ATW and 510 Nm torque at 1.6 bar

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinks View Post
    MMCFlash is a usb dongle and license key combo.
    Thanks mate, I'll hold off on that for a bit then!

  4. #64
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    Hi there, just been reading your comments about flashing ECU, i have Manual Legnum VR4, 1998 have changed quite a lot to make some extra power, Much bigger inter cooler in fact the front of the car had to be significantly modified just to get in behind the bumper, decat , Walbro 255 fuel pump, K&N replacement filter, modified fuel regulator, electronic boost controller, HKS Fuel cut defender. all of which has made a difference but asking for your advise where to go next as all this tuning is very much a learning curve for me. Im thinking programmable wide band next but what are your recommendations.
    Please can you advise me?
    Kindest Regards
    Dave 07970672331

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitsiboyblue View Post
    Much bigger inter cooler in fact the front of the car had to be significantly modified just to get in behind the bumper, decat , Walbro 255 fuel pump, K&N replacement filter, modified fuel regulator, electronic boost controller, HKS Fuel cut defender.
    All of those are a recipe for at least 300 HP and 350 Ft/Lbs torque. Fuel cut defenders however are far from ideal, they trick the ECU into thinking less air is going into the car, which can ultimately cause the engine to run leaner as it doesn't match fuelling to airflow.

    Boost control via an EBC is also a good quick way to get big gains but again, it's taking control away from the ECU. By adjusting the boost with the ECU, it can dial it back if things get bad, whereas with an EBC all it can do is dial back timing. By that point its already knocking pretty bad and you risk causing damage to your engine.

    What I'd recommend is this;

    1. Remove the fuel cut defender ASAP and sell it on, it's not worth risking your engine for a few more HP with this thing
    2. If you have a separate boost gauge, remove the EBC and sell that too. If you don't have a boost gauge, keep the EBC if it measures boost, just remove the solenoid from the turbo pipework
    3. Book yourself in at the 2014 Dyno tuning meet - 22nd Nov in Nottinghamshire and I can tune your car properly, or
    4. Get involved yourself by getting the tools to flash your ECU, raise the boost cut and target load and adjust fuelling / timing to suit
    Want your car tuning? Here's my pricing
    Have questions about performance upgrades and ECU tuning? Before PM'ing me, Check this thread first
    Please support CVR4 & become a Full member, you get a full years access to guides, games, chat & much more!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    Hi all

    This thread has been created to address commonly asked questions in relation to tuning EC5A (Galant VR-4) and EC5W (Legnum) cars. The questions answered here are aimed at those asking if something is possible, or to tuners starting out with little experience.

    There are some questions that, when asked, you may receive a cold shoulder to. This is because, although not apparent to yourself, the answer is never simple nor practical. This is just a forewarning to expect a bad response to some questions but not to take it personally

    1. If I send you my cars ROM, can you set it to run at such-and-such boost?

    There are 2 reasons this is a poor question;
    1. As our cars don't have a MAP sensor, engine performance calculations are done based on a perceived Load, this is a calculation the ECU does based on a number of factors such as how much air is passing by the MAF sensor, what temperature etc. It is not directly related to manifold pressure (aka "boost" and "vacuum").
    2. Every car differs, even before it's left the factory they could differ slightly due to tolerances in manufacturing process, and once it's left the factory it's a free-for-all on how the car changes, factors such as servicing, how the car is treated etc all cause differences.

    In short, it's impossible to tune a car to run at a specific amount of boost, and close to impossible to get it to run close to that figure without mapping it in person.

    There is a similar question that often comes in that has both the above answered factored into it and some more;

    2. Can you send me a ROM that gives me an extra 40 HP?

    Asking for pre-tuned images for use on your (or anothers) car is a very bad idea. It's unreliable, often dangerous, but always downright lazy. Asking for a previously-tuned image so you can learn from it isn't so widely frowned upon, but it's still encroaching on something that someone else has invested time in preparing.

    Also, there's no such thing as a ROM that gives you an extra "something" HP, as stated earlier, every car is different and requires it's own unique map to make the most of it and handle it's subtle differences that can often result in vast differences.

    Here is a theoretical example; 3 identical cars all leave the factory supposedly tuned to 260 HP could meet up 5 years later and put on a dyno;
    • Car 1 makes 230 HP because it's been serviced poorly
    • Car 2 makes 250 HP due to natural wear/tear/age
    • Car 3 makes 265 HP because its fuel pump is failing causing the car to run leaner than intended

    If I was to create a generic ROM image that ups the target load (ie. loosely how much extra boost to apply) by an additional 15%, it could have the following effects on the above cars;
    • Car 1 makes 240 HP because gains were harder to achieve due to poor servicing
    • Car 2 responds well and makes a respectable 280 HP
    • Car 3 briefly makes 290 HP before excessive knock causes the engine to die

    In addition to this, asking for gains such as +40 HP is a pipe dream unless you have sufficient backing in your wallet for supporting mods. Lets say you're tuning a manual or a facelift auto, you're already starting with 280 HP (well, 276 HP for the pedantic), if you want +40 HP on top of that (320 HP) you've already exceeded what the fuel pump can deliver, and you're also close to the usable limit of our TD03 turbos.

    Some people claim you don't need to upgrade the fuel pump before you ready the limit of the turbos, however that's if the fuel pump and pressure regulator are in perfect working order, which after 10-15 years is highly unlikely. If you're gonna ask for 320 HP out of a VR-4, it's highly recommended you invest in good supporting mods; Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, intercooler, exhaust system and performance air filter. You also need to start thinking about cooling if you plan on running 320 HP for extended periods (such as on track days). Once and only when you've done that, you will definitely need the ECU tuning to suit the modifications.

    Here's a nice example of that last point about reflashing after the modifications have been done, using the stock fuelling table after installing my fuelling modifications (Walbro GSS342 255 LPH fuel pump and a Sytec Fuel Pressure Regulator) I actually LOST power because the car was running significantly richer (AFRs of around 7-8 under WOT). I've had to set those matching entries in the fuelling table to around 12.5-13 just to bring the fuelling up to a safe 10.5-11.0 (and still I feel there's still power to be had by leaning it out to 11.5). I feel my "tune" is circa 320 HP, an upcoming dyno day will confirm that, however if my ROM was to be flashed onto a car without those fuelling mods, I'd be very surprised if it didn't go bang.

    3. Can you lean out my cruise for better economy?

    As of March 2012, not by a reflash, the ECU is set to match 0.5V from the lambda sensor but as of yet the location of this value in the ROM is undetermined. And if / when it does become possible the benefits won't be safely usable.

    Stock narrowband oxygen / lambda sensors output a voltage signal between 0-1V with the stoichiometric air-fuel mixture of 14.7:1 being around 0.5V, there is very little room to change this because the change can often be very sharp (here is a very optimistic narrowband graph), if you were to aim for 14.9:1 the voltage would be around 0.2V, not leaving much room between potentially running much leaner.

    It's fairly well adopted that a cruise AFR of around 15.2:1 is beneficial to fuel economy on 8G VR-4s, the only safe way to achieve this is to use either a wideband kit (such as the Innovate LC-1 or MTX-L), or a fuelling computer, that has a programmable narrowband emulation.

    That said, economy benefits can be had by advancing timing a few degrees (no more) around the cruise areas.

    4. What ECU do I have? Can it be reflashed?

    The following is correct as of March 2012;

    7201 - Silver metal casing with green connectors - Commonly found on Pre-facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU, requires MMCFlash USB Module #1 to do the flashing

    H8/539 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Fairly rare and straddled the Pre-facelift and Facelift switch - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU, requires MMCFlash USB Module #1 to do the flashing

    7202 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Commonly found on early Facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM and flash, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU

    7203 - Black plastic casing with black connectors - Commonly found on late Facelifts - Requires EcuFlash to edit ROM and flash, requires a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable to reflash the ECU

    Links:

    5. Can my ECU use another ROM and/or have mods / switchable maps?

    Again, as of March 2012;

    7201 - This ECU can only run ROM images specifically built for the 7201, basic tuning can be done such as raising the boost / fuel cut threshold, adjusting fuelling / timing and boost control

    All others (the H8/539, 7202 and 7203) - These ECUs can all interchange ROM images, and in addition to the above basic tuning they also support Kenneths ECU mods.

    Kenneth has released 2 ROMs that add additional features:
    • v1.x that adds switchable anti-lag / launch control / flat shifting / CEL-on-knock - link
    • v2.x that adds 8 switchable maps and CEL-on-knock, with 8 unique Fuel / Ignition Timing / Boost Control tables that are interchangeable with the switchable maps - link


    6. Can I swap ECUs?

    Yes, but only if you flash the correct ROM image and follow this truth table;
    • All VR-4 engine ECUs are compatible with manual VR-4s, regardless of what VR-4 it came from
    • Engine ECUs from automatic cars with TCL are compatible with all VR-4s
    • Engine ECUs from automatic cars without TCL may have problems if put into an automatic car with TCL
    • Engine ECUs from manual cars may have problems if put into an automatic car (either with or without TCL)

    I say "may have problems" because it's unclear given so many different PCB revisions if the pins for TCL or auto ECU communication are connected internally to the processor.

    More questions will appear here later, watch this space
    Thats fantastic reading for me i really appropriate the link, very informative. So.... i have 7202 from Manual and 7203 from Auto without TCL. Both black plastic boxes / both black connectors.
    Which of these would you use given the choice when tuning a manual vr4? I'm asking this just incase there are any additional benitits if using 7203.
    And my last question.....
    Who can remap/flash this for me?



    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  7. #67
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    No differences between the two types, they'll be updated with the same software if you want the multiple maps and launch control, anti lag etc.

    As for who can, @foxdie is the most experienced here, but I also have the kit to do so, and I've been learning from Jason recently

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    No differences between the two types, they'll be updated with the same software if you want the multiple maps and launch control, anti lag etc.

    As for who can, @foxdie is the most experienced here, but I also have the kit to do so, and I've been learning from Jason recently
    Thats great to know, whats this going to cost

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  9. #69
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    That's beyond scope of this conversation. Will drop you a list of prices.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    That's beyond scope of this conversation. Will drop you a list of prices.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Yes that would be best, sorry dont mean to cross any thresholds here.

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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    That's beyond scope of this conversation. Will drop you a list of prices.
    Me too please

  12. #72

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    How times have changed since 2006 tuning, mapping. I'll dig around in the shed to see if I have any old ECU's that maybe of use to someone. Keep up the good work.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
    How times have changed since 2006 tuning, mapping. I'll dig around in the shed to see if I have any old ECU's that maybe of use to someone. Keep up the good work.
    Hi Paul

    I've been reading all of the ECU threads as I'm thinking of getting a spare ECU to try out the KS Mods ECU flash file on, and saw that you might have a spare one or two

    Would definitely be interested in sorting out something for them if you have one or two spare!

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judder View Post
    Hi Paul

    I've been reading all of the ECU threads as I'm thinking of getting a spare ECU to try out the KS Mods ECU flash file on, and saw that you might have a spare one or two

    Would definitely be interested in sorting out something for them if you have one or two spare!
    I didn't realise my inbox was full but have seen you have tried to send a message.

    I work away and since I wrote the above I still haven't been home. I'll be back in about 2 weeks and will dig the shed out to see what i can find. I haven't owned a VR4 for about 12 year but I'm a hoarder. If I have an ECU it will probably be for the auto in the metal case...... if it is there you can have it free.

    Give me a couple of weeks and I will let you know.

  15. #75

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    i second this if theres any more than one free im more than happy to buy one

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
    I work away and since I wrote the above I still haven't been home. I'll be back in about 2 weeks and will dig the shed out to see what i can find. I haven't owned a VR4 for about 12 year but I'm a hoarder. If I have an ECU it will probably be for the auto in the metal case...... if it is there you can have it free.

    Give me a couple of weeks and I will let you know.
    Awesome - thanks Paul - I have an auto VR4 so that would be brilliant and much appreciated

  17. #77

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    6 months later- I couldn't find one. I have only been back to uk once in this time. Cheers Paul

  18. #78
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    Sorry for perhaps the daft question, but I ask mainly for clarification more than anything

    I've got 2x PFL vr4's that are very close in registration date, but the chassis numbers are notably different
    EC5W0009510 vs EC5W0010354


    9510 apparently has had the ECU fettled with, where as the other, 10354 as far as I know is bone stock

    Can I simply plug and play in terms of an ECU swap to get the benefits from the fettled with ECU? Assuming they are of the same ECU type etc

    I was concerned about immobiliser issues as well but that seems to have been answered above, and I conclude that it's not an issue

    Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
    EDIT: ADDED CHASSIS NUMBERS
    2006 VW Passat B6 Tdi 140 BKP (Daily driver)
    1996 Legnum VR4 TYpe-S Sophia White (Weekend Toy)
    1996 Legnum VR4 Type-S Trigger Mauve (Parts Car)

  19. #79
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    If there are no supporting mods on the car with the tuned ECU it should be fine to swap it out. Remember that the tune would likely have been set specifically for the car it was in so may give different results. It's always best to at least be measuring lambda to make sure you don't run lean.
    '97 Manual Legnum in silver with some subtle mods

    My first VR4 - '97 Legnum Dark Green & mean ...it was love at first sight - now sold

  20. #80
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    9510 was completed in the third week of October 1996, 10354 was the first week of November. Certainly quite close in birthdays!

    I'd agree with Tim. If the ECU for 9510 has been played with, it might be very specific for that car and it's supporting mods. To be safe you'd want to be measuring boost levels and air/fuel ratios if you swap it to 10354.

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