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Thread: Common tuning FAQ

  1. #21
    foxdie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCX View Post
    pin 1 initialises any ecu that is on the k-line bus (TCU, AYC, EFI, ABS, ACD)

    As part of the 5-baud init, you send a unique address. this specifies what module will communicate.
    Exactly, so holding it to GND would prevent initialising any other ECU, it's just a fluke that the EFI ECU responds if this is permanently grounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCX View Post
    as for reflashing, reflash connector has a dedicated pin for each module that can be reflashed. In our vr4, this internally joins to the flmcr pin of the H8 to provide it with a voltage to burn the rom (remove read only protection) and gets the rom to boot the flash kernel.
    Don't suppose you can confirm if the voltage applied to that pin is the same as battery voltage (+12V to +14V) or if it needs to be the higher band of +16V to +18V?
    Have questions about performance upgrades and ECU tuning? Before PM'ing me, Check this thread first
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gowf View Post
    This maybe isnt the place to say this either, but you are talking in very generic and somewhat confusing terms when looking at cruise. A lambda value of 1, is used because of exhaust emission legislation. You DO get maximum economy (if we want to use this term) at a lambda of 1.1, however due to NOx issues this is not deemed acceptable (although there are ways of resolving this issue). Advancing the timing around the cruise areas may or may not improve your economy, leaner mixtures burn slower and so you find that you have to put more timing in for them, BUT.... you have to weigh in what the manufacturer has already put in place there (along with other factors such as speed, charge temp, etc). All in all, you have to remember that manufacturers have teams of people that spend months creating these maps, and do so for a reason, so changing these settings without true thought into why things do what they do can be quite detrimental.
    Aah the benefits of actually getting your hands dirty from tuning an engine to the point of destruction

  3. #23

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    Jason - I've been able to pull up AYC data from the ECU with that pin grounded on my VAGCOM cable, although it was a while ago.

    As far as I was aware, the ECU won't go into diagnostic mode unless pin 1 is grounded, which usually means you get no data.

    I looked at the H8 specs a while back and I think it mentions in the documentation that it requires 5v for normal operation, and 7-8v for flashing.

  4. #24

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    Okay, just tested the cable - it allows me to connect to the ECU, but not to AYC. I could have sworn that this cable was the one I used!

    Actually, wait a second... my previous cable was the one that worked fine, and I think Ryan has that now.

    I'll try removing the pin 1-4 bridge later on to see if it helps.

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    Jason, I have a vagcom KKL with a paperclip in pin 1 soldered to pin 4. You are welcome to abuse that at some point.

  6. #26

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    Just tested - with pin 1 disconnected from ground, you can't get a connection to any ECU.

    With it connected to pin 4, you can get ECU connection - but not AYC.

    I'll find the pinouts for the OpenPort and see if I can figure out what pin needs to be connected to talk to the AYC ECU.

    Also - you cannot download anything off the ECU unless you have the OpenPort cable to provide the high voltage.

  7. #27
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    If wanted I have a stock 7203 manual rom. seems i have deleted the stock 7202 manual rom that I had though

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    Just tested - with pin 1 disconnected from ground, you can't get a connection to any ECU.

    With it connected to pin 4, you can get ECU connection - but not AYC.
    I thought not, I had the same issue with my VAGCOM (FTDI based) cable. I also tried moving Pin 15 (L-Line) to Pin 1 in the hope that would allow EvoScan to init the other ECUs.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    I'll find the pinouts for the OpenPort and see if I can figure out what pin needs to be connected to talk to the AYC ECU.
    I'm unsure if this is required, please consult this thread first

    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    Also - you cannot download anything off the ECU unless you have the OpenPort cable to provide the high voltage.
    Aye but is that +16V to +18V? Or just +12V? I'm not sure if VAGCOM cables take power from the +12V line to communicate of if they just switch the lines to ground to communicate.

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    I'm running EvoScan 2.6 as well at the moment, so this could be causing a few issues. I'll upgrade it sometime this week when I get the new serial number.

    Just looking at the schematic for the OpenPort 1.3U now - pin 9 and 15 are connected together to the L-line, so I may need to put a new pin in and connect those two pins.
    I'm also noticing a ferrite transformer by the looks of it? There's also an output from the LM555 to a VCC line, a cap, 2 diodes and a 1k resistor to the boot line - I think that's your 16v line.

    Easiest way to test the voltage will be a multimeter. Just found this on the ECUFlash site too:

    we will not be able to release a version of EcuFlash for the Mitsubishi H8 processor family of ECUs that works with the Openport 1.3. The reason being that the Openport 1.3 power supply circuit that generates the ~16V the ECU needs to supply the regulated reflashing voltage to the CPU does not have a sufficient current capacity, causing this voltage to drop to levels insufficient to safely flash the CPU (the CPU goes into a protection mode to prevent you from even trying). The Openport 1.3 does generate a voltage large enough to cause the processor to startup in boot mode, which is why you could read and compare in past versions, but unfortunately, it just isn't usable for reflashing. Later processors like the SH2 and M32R generate this reflash voltage internally, and have minimal current requirements, which is why the Openport 1.3 works with the Evo 7/8/9 without a problem.
    Guess that means that yes, it does generate 16v to that connector to bring the ECU into boot mode.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    I'm running EvoScan 2.6 as well at the moment, so this could be causing a few issues. I'll upgrade it sometime this week when I get the new serial number.
    Be warned, the later versions drop all support for ELM / FTDI cables that aren't either an OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    Just looking at the schematic for the OpenPort 1.3U now - pin 9 and 15 are connected together to the L-line, so I may need to put a new pin in and connect those two pins.
    Maybe thats why Pin 9 needs removing

    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    I'm also noticing a ferrite transformer by the looks of it? There's also an output from the LM555 to a VCC line, a cap, 2 diodes and a 1k resistor to the boot line - I think that's your 16v line.

    Easiest way to test the voltage will be a multimeter.
    Could you do that if you get time?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintertidenz View Post
    Just found this on the ECUFlash site too:


    Guess that means that yes, it does generate 16v to that connector to bring the ECU into boot mode.
    It may be possible to build a tiny add-on circuit using the same components as you specified earlier to step-up the voltages to 16~18V, have that on a switch in an inline switch to the boot pin

  11. #31

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    Unfortunately I don't have an OpenPort 1.3 cable - otherwise I would test the voltage.

    I'm thinking that with pin 9 you can't address AYC - but if it was present and tied to pin 15... I'll pull the cable apart this afternoon and check things out.

    I'm happy to try and build the circuit to generate 16v for the wiring - but I need to look at the flashing connector pinouts so I don't blow anything up. I would prefer to use something else to step up the voltage than a LM555 - I think that's why the OP 2.0 can only be used for flashing, because the draw required is more than the 555 can provide.

  12. #32
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    I have a multimeter, the next time I'm physically able to drive my car and reflash the ECU I'll connect it up

  13. #33

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    It seems that you need the OP flashing cable even if you want to read the ECU, especially from EvoScan.

  14. #34
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    Interesting as this is.... its gone way off topic. Can a mod cut it and place the non related tuning stuff in its own thread please?

    '97 Manual Legnum in silver with some subtle mods

    My first VR4 - '97 Legnum Dark Green & mean ...it was love at first sight - now sold

  15. #35
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    I was thinking that too, maybe also rename this thread "Common tuning FAQ" or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie
    Exactly, so holding it to GND would prevent initialising any other ECU, it's just a fluke that the EFI ECU responds if this is permanently grounded.
    grounding it puts all devices on the bus into init mode, depending on what init addresss you use in the 5-baud init will determine what module talks on the bus.

    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie
    Don't suppose you can confirm if the voltage applied to that pin is the same as battery voltage (+12V to +14V) or if it needs to be the higher band of +16V to +18V?
    16v - tested with my scope, plus anything with flash memory usually needs around 16v to flash or burn the ROM again.

    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    I thought not, I had the same issue with my VAGCOM (FTDI based) cable. I also tried moving Pin 15 (L-Line) to Pin 1 in the hope that would allow EvoScan to init the other ECUs.
    Our ECUS dont use L-line at all. Pin 1 is purely to tell all modules in the car (that are on the obd bus) that to listen out for an init.



    Also, Pin 9 is ETACS diagnostic output only i believe.
    Last edited by BCX; 26-03-2012 at 12:56 AM.

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    Jason, I like your idea of this thread, but a couple of things I would say, the stock fuel pump is fine basically up to the turbo limit but only if they are perfect. Usually they are not perfect as they are now at least 11 years old. Symptoms of a worn fuel pump will be that it will run lean at high power and progressively get worse as the fuel heats up (eg a car sitting on a dyno) so I would say replace it with a Walbro so you know you have something new. Even if the stock pump is fine now, it probably won't be for much longer and unless you have a wideband connected up to the car permanently you won't know till it goes bang.

    Stock boost solenoids are woeful and inconsistent between cars, any plumbing change has an effect, better to use a 3 port, like a grimspeed or ac delco etc. I've also seen factory solenoids work while the engine is cooler but as engine bay temps go up it stops working with the heat, they're old and crap, much like the fuel pumps.

    I would argue apart from the fuel pump and boost control solenoid there are worthwhile gains with otherwise stock cars, obviously supporting mods help further. I'm not convinced on the need for a regulator either.

    Also, of the 50plus VR4s I've tuned I have every single original map saved so if anyone want's a stock map I don't think there is a configuration I don't have.

    When Merlin wrote the ECU flashing guide a lot of the definitions were incorrect or completely unknown, I'm pretty sure boost control was not known so that is why he doesn't give the addresses in the guide. For some reason everyone had the fuel maps back to front and apart from Mr Eurospec and me, nobody else tuning these cars noticed (don't ask me why) and a guy from Brisbane and me realised they were back to front, hence the guide maps looking wrong. (No one believed me either so it's a bit of a sore point). Anyway, as I understand it, Merlins intention with the guide is to tell you how to do stuff not give you the tools to do it necessarily, and kudos to him for putting it and the evo guides together.

    And bill and I are almost there with the cleanup of the XML's, we just keep getting sidetracked other more interesting stuff like finding new addresses or in his case writing new code for the ROM

  18. #38

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    Nice and useful post foxdie.
    I would like to ask you some additional questions:
    What is the power, measured on wheels on stock autobox VR4?
    What is the power limit of pump, injectors and turbos? To which boost stock maps can go?
    As I know, the stock pump works on 6/7 Volts and they doubles when you hit the floor. Is this a problem for any aftermarket pump, or only specially designed pumps can handle this kind of regulation?

  19. #39

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    On a mainline dyno stock auto will be about 120-125kW ATW (Doubt you have mainline dynos over there but they're our ultra consistent dyno), manual add about 10kW
    power limit, about 200kW on that same dyno, but your pump had better be perfect which it probably isn't
    Any pump can handle the regulation AFAIK but the flow is substantially reduced, even going from 12 to 14V makes a big flow difference but with stock turbo's a Walbro 255LPH has miles up it's sleeve so....

  20. #40

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    Wow, from 200 kw to 120. Not too efficient drivetrain.
    Anyway, my first milestone will be achieving this stock power. Thanks for replay.

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