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Thread: Detonation Knock pre ignition removal reduction

  1. #41
    Davezj's Avatar

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    i might see if i can do a numberplate relocation with one of these brackets you can get on ebay.

    Bye for Now!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayp View Post
    Vinyl number plates are illegal, they don't comply with the British standard that has to be printed on the plate by law now.
    Only new and replacements fitted after 2001, AFAIK.
    Believed to be the only PFL Legnum parked on my drive unless you know otherwise.
    : Hardwired Walbro 255 : FSE FPR : Denso IK22s : 600x300x100 FMIC : 3" Fujitsubo exhaust : 3" decat : K&N Panel : R-Spec dump valve : Cusco ARBs : Braided Brake Lines :
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  3. #43

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    Exactly, so any plate fitted now without the bs number would be illegal. And an mot tester can fail a car for having a vinyl plate, even if it was fitted before 2001

    Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
    1st 1998 PFL LEGNUM VR4
    2nd 1999 RALLIART FL LEGNUM VR4 EVO 8 BREMBO'S AND EVO 9 ENKEI ALLOYS 26/02/11
    PLX WIDEBAND AFR CONTROLLER & GAUGE 05/03/11
    CARBON WRAPPED CENTRE CONSOLE 05/0311
    FORGE SPLIT-R DUMP VALVE 05/03/11
    SWOOSH BOOST/VAC GAUGE 05/03/11
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    D2 RACING COILOVERS FITTED 12/03/11
    EBC REDSTUFF PADS FRONT AND REAR 19/03/11
    MOCOL 10 ROW OIL COOLER FOR THE G/BOX 26/03/11
    OIL CATCH CAN 10/04/11
    2.5" -3" HOME MADE DOWNPIPES AND DE-CAT 28/04/11
    AYC LIGHT BARS ADDED TO CLOCK 14/05/11
    SWAPPED 45,000MILE ENGINE FROM LEGNUM 1 TO LEGNUM 2 13/06/2011
    MAGNECOR 8MM LEADS AND DENZO IRIDIUM PLUGS GAPPED TO 0.8MM 13/06/2011
    255LPH FUEL PUMP (HOT-WIRED) SARD FPR 27/01/2012
    SO FAR....

  4. #44
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    Guess I'm just lucky then....

  5. #45
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    Just have to mount it on the side like the Evo X's do

    mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-01-09-09.jpg

    aetv26911910_1.jpg

    (Incidentally, LOVE that red!)
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxdie View Post
    Just have to mount it on the side like the Evo X's do

    mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-01-09-09.jpg

    aetv26911910_1.jpg


    (Incidentally, LOVE that red!)

    I was thinking of do it this way but is require a lot of fibreglass/filler/painting job which I'm not a big fan, anyway it will look cool on vr4
    His FL Legnum VR4 running 238.8 ATW HP and 500Nm @1.05 bar on LPG
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  7. #47
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    yes that is what i was thinking of doing, but the front off the car looks a bit blank.

    you could use the tilt down brackets, attach it to the currect location and tilt it down slightly so it would guide more air in to the intercooler. forgot to say use a standard long UK numberplate with this tilt bracket.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NUMBER-PLA...item27c55ea7a5

    side bracket something like this

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Front-offs...item5d3341ada1

    or this
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NUMBER-PLA...item2a0a7e34f3

    i am not sure about the look of the front bumper with out the number plate in the middle leaving the hole, we really need a masking plate to go over the hole really to make it look nice.
    you could just cut the bit off the bumper that hangs down and replace the grill under it. but i don't know how ugly the egde will be if you just cut it off.

    i could not bothered with fiber glassing it all in and filling and sanding and filling and sanding and filling and sanding, priming and painting the whole bumper.
    Last edited by Davezj; 18-04-2012 at 06:40 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    i have looked at other threads and there is some good info in them regarding what detonation, knock, pre ignition is,

    this is a good thread for that
    http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...tonation+sound

    But not that much about how to get rid of it. well not much in one place.

    so now you have read the above thread and know what it is, how can you get rid of it ?

    there are a few ways to do it and i am sure lots of people have there prefured metheds, and i would like you to share the knowledge.

    the senario is:-
    1. Factory stock car mechanicals, turbo's and fueling wise, all in good condition and running perfectly.
    2. Fuel cut limit raised via ecu reflash
    3. After market boost control with gauge.
    4. 1 piece, 2.5" straight through exhaust very small sports cat, minimal silecer
    5. HKS panel filter
    6. Boost set to 13psi get regular kocksum counts of 2-3 and below (repeatable results).
    7. Boost set to 14psi get regular kocksum counts of 6 and below (repeatable result).
    8. Knocksum count tested with a 3 gear 40-80 WOT
    9. fuel is shell V-power.

    tools available:-
    evoscan to monitor knock.
    ecuflash to do the reflash if required.
    all cable required.
    bench test rig to drive injectors (when i get round to building)
    ultrasonic cleaning tank for injector cleaning.

    i am not asking how to tune out knock with a reflash and adjusting the timing, etc will do this once everything else is set up to allow me to push the boost up. then once the boost is where i want it, i can tune out the very small amount of knock i will inevitably have with the raised boost. i need to be able to get to where i want to be first.
    i want to be able to safely turn the boost up to about 18-20psi.

    i would assume the following would be sensible.
    i need to do/change the following as a starting point,
    fuel pump change to 255lph to ensure enough fuel is available to stop lean fueling £40
    fuel pressure regulator change for adjustable type to cope with higher fuel pressure from the new pump. £40
    bigger intercooler 600x300x76mm to help lower the air charge temp. £80 (Not strictly necessary as we have the stock intercooler but don't know its limitations)
    cleaning fuel injector, ultrasonic bath with before and after flow test, etc, (this is free to me as i will have the gear).
    wide band sensor £120
    boost pressure sensor loggable by evoscan (unused O2 sensor on ECU) £20

    now this can be done for about £300
    which is nice.

    what else would be advisable to do, before turning up the boost any further.
    i am not looking at spending more than £200-£400 on top of the £300 spent on the fuel pump, Pressure regulator, and intercooler, wideband,boost sensor, which i know is not a lot of money but thats the budget.

    This is all theoretical at the moment and hope fully it will help other in this situaltion in future.

    please keep your comments sensible and thanks for your input.
    right to get this thread back on topic and to do a bit of a round up.

    i have done the following
    1. fuel pump 255lph TRE342 done
    2. hot wire fuel pump as it is a TRE342 and it is needed via second fuel pump relay bypass of resistor pack. done
    3. Fuel presure regulator Sard RJ or copy i am not sure, set to 49psi no vacuum/boost pump so when max boost 20psi, 69psi is required max psi that can be delivered is 75 psi. so well within limits (not that i will ever push 20psi it is just a safety margin.
    4. Intercooler 600x300x76mm
    5.AFR gauge MTX-L nice and simple
    6. UTCOM trip computer which monitors inlet temp pre intercooler and post intercooler.
    7. boost sensor loggable via evoscan but need to sort out scaling.

    with all this done i can now run 12psi no knock
    16psi with minimal knock 3 and under on WAT 3rd gear 40 - 80 which is nice.

    i now need to push the boost up and see what happens.
    so a good result all round.

    the only down side to the modifications is the oil temp at cruise on the motorway was 100deg C but is now 120deg C, there are a few things that could have happened here, i might have damaged the temp sensor when fitting the intercoller, or the larger intercooler i have fitted has blocked some of the cooling air that was getting to the coolant radiator and engine itself, causing the increase in the oil temp. now the water temp might have gone up by one notch on the gauge or it might not.
    so i will replace the water temp sensor to check this and it that does not change the temp being seen i will fit som small fans to the back of the intercooler that run at the same time as the coolant rad fans to help draw the required air through the intercoolerand rad.

    but all in all quite happy.
    i do need to sort out afr and boost logging on eveo scan, but after that i will start with the ecu tuning, to get rid of the final little bits of knock and give it a bit more fuel via the maps.



    one question i would like an anaswer to is what is the max duty cycle you should be running on the injectors. at present at about 16psi my injectors are running at about 80% duty cycle. i seem to remember that you don't really want to run them mach harder than 80% duty cycle, but i am not sure. i could have just made this up.

  9. #49
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    I'm not sure there is a black and white answer to safe injector duty cycle times. I know that very low duty cycles lead to a lack of proper control and very high duty cycles lead to a risk of going lean, but I think it is a case of the risk increases with duty cycle rather than it becomes bad at a set point.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Mann View Post
    I'm not sure there is a black and white answer to safe injector duty cycle times. I know that very low duty cycles lead to a lack of proper control and very high duty cycles lead to a risk of going lean, but I think it is a case of the risk increases with duty cycle rather than it becomes bad at a set point.
    yeh, i thought about it along those lines.
    i was really wondering at what point would you say the injectors are maxed out
    not that 80% is maxed out, but peak performance range of an injector, i would have thought would have been specified somewhere and when you go outside this range then it is time to look for bigger injectors.
    i just don't knoe where that point is.

  11. #51
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    well here is an update,
    i pushed the boost to 18psi and logged for knocksum and only 3 recorded result, and i thashed it. i am sure i can tune that out witha bit of timing playing
    makes me happy.

  12. #52
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    This thread is interesting but you are just stabbing in the dark. If less money was thrown at trying to solve a problem you only believe that you have (high charge temps) and more on actually identifying the problem (installing a thermocouple) then you would have known quantity to work from.

    It just seems incredibly far fetched to be thinking about fuel coolers/larger intercoolers etc without actually knowing your charge temps and assessing the reality of your potential solutions in actually solving the problem

  13. #53
    Davezj's Avatar

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    i did have an actual problem, which was high knocksum counts when i thrashed the car with WOT, and it is this that i was trying to address.
    i did have a temp sensor on the inlet and exit temp of the intercooler to see the effect of factory and bigger after market replacement intercooler, which i found quite interesting. and was a nice thing to do.
    unfortunately my temp measurement gear has now broken so maybe i will get a thermocouple extension cable to allow me to mount my other temp probe in the car on a more perminent basis.

    as you have said i too think charge temp is a contributing factor in casusing knock but not the only thing, as after i fitted the bigger intcooler it made almost no differce to my kocksum count, but did reduce the inlet temp.
    from a rough 50% drop across the factroy intercooler, to a rough 66% drop across the bigger after market intercooler.
    so i have partially addressed the charge temp issue with the bigger intercooler, i could have done more, but i have limited funds to achieve this.
    i have also ensured there is enough fuel avilable to support the kind of boost pressure i can generate with standard turbos.
    which has significantly reduced my knock issue.
    so i have achieved what i set out to do at the start.

    it would have been also been nice to log all the temps, boost pressure, afr's, atmospheric condition, engine temps, and every other perameter that is likely to effect the performance of the car when i made every individual little change, but i didn't. It would also have been nice to have access to rolling road so i could do the setup in the dry and comfort of a garage to get some instant results , but i don't. life is a b1tch. lol.

    would you care to share your knowledge of inlet temps and let me know what range of values will be good, accectable, bad. so when i get my themocouple setup i can verify my inlet temp are in the good range of values, and if they are not then i can do something more to be keep them in check.

    any info will be gratefully received.

  14. #54
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    Sorry to hijack things but does anyone have a pfl hotside intercooler pipe for sale or know we’re I’d get one have a fL model Tnx

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