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Thread: Nicks Project Hamilton.

  1. #181
    Chris.W's Avatar

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    Nick what is the stage 3 clutch spec.
    I have the twin plate one from CC and was apparently rated to handle 1000bhp. Bit excessive but running almost half the rating and i have never had any slippage issues or burning smell. It is very much though on or off, as adaxo says.
    I really like the possitive feel and robustness of the CC gear.
    '96 Galant VR4 manual
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    Now breaking for spares

    More to come, eventually.

  2. #182
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    I honestly don't find the stage 2 too bad. Even Vicky thinks it is okay. You do have to rev a little more but I think that is down to the lightweight flywheel.

    The gearbox is on the floor now and the engine is on the stand. Hopefully I will get time over the next couple of days to start doing nice bits!

  3. #183
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    The stage 3 is a sprung ceramic. Nearly a paddle clutch but slightly more user friendly. The stage 4 is a full paddle jobby (6 puk maybe?) and that is cerfainly more on/off than the stage 2.

  4. #184
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    So I have had a busy summer holiday - both with the car and with the family! It means I haven't managed to do any on the fly updates on here, but as I am trying to use this thread as a kind of personal diary for the car it is time to update the thread.

    First job, remove the stuff from the engine bay:
    WhatsApp Image 2017-07-15 at 11.35.01.jpeg

    Then I took the gearbox to Transmission Dynamics - Clive.W on the lancer register (mlr) forums. His knowledge of the W5M5 gearbox is encyclopaedic. He told me it would be a while before he could properly strip and inspect the box,
    so whilst I was waiting for the bad news, I took the plunge and started tackling the cambelt and cam swap. I bought a tool similar to one I had borrowed from @swinks before (Thank you sir!) which allows you to pressurise the cylinder through the spark plug hole. The pressure holds the valves shut whilst you compress the valve spring to remove the valve keeper and retaining washer. ebay link or expensive website
    WhatsApp Image 2017-07-15 at 11.35.23.jpeg

    The job was fiddly and due to poor forward planning I lost a keeper down an oilway. I then had to remove the sump to recover it. *sigh* This forced me to address the rust on the sump too though, so I have hopefully added a few years of life to that!
    Anyway, after blocking the oil return tubes using rubber pipes with bolts in the ends I finished the first side! Whilst the rocker covers were off I also replaced the head bolts with ARP studs. Not wanting to invest in a head gasket set I did the dirty method of removing one bolt at a time and replacing with the ARP stud before removing the next. I also did it in the tightening order found in the workshop manuals.
    WhatsApp Image 2017-07-22 at 15.57.04.jpeg

    The front bank took less time than the rear bank. Probably because I had learned to block oilways first!
    WhatsApp Image 2017-08-06 at 16.01.03.jpeg

    The cams came from Ash @c0xxy but I believe he originally bought them from Adam @Adam.Findlay and they came supplied with springs, lashers and washers to space the lashers up a little. They were marked up as 262 and 9.8 so I assume they are the usual regrind spec that Adam supplies.

    In the meantime the bad news about the gearbox had landed and I had agreed to as many new parts in it as I could afford. The gearbox refurb has been my biggest single expense since owning the car. Having said that now I have driven it a few times I absolutely LOVE the result. The gearbox was high mileage before I had it and this is the second VR4 I have used it in. I am sure that the fact most of it was between 250 and 300,000 miles old was the reason the rebuild cost so much! I have also kept the Evo 8 five speed ratios with the VR4 final drive so I still have the longest ratios that I can currently obtain. A second trip to Bedford to collect the gearbox and I was ready to put it all back together.
    WhatsApp Image 2017-08-23 at 12.42.06.jpeg

    After rotating the engine by hand, fitting the new Stage 3 Competition Clutch and bolting up the refurbed gearbox, I filled the car with all the fluids and tentatively turned the key..... The engine runs! By this time it was Wednesday and we were using the car to go camping on Friday! I went for a tentative drive and all seemed good. However, upon more aggressive acceleration it became apparent that I had a misfire above 3500ish rpm with high throttle. The car would accelerate and was showing no knock, but it sounded and felt pretty poor. On pulling back onto the drive there was also water all over the floor. Mildly panicking, a couple of fellow owners calmed me down via whatsapp and I discovered that a coil pack had chosen this moment to go down. My self loathing brain had been telling me that maybe the cams were wrong, the springs were unseated, the rockers falling off etc but a few sensible heads got me back under control. I also discovered that most of the water was air conditioning condensation, the coolant leak was not as bad as I thought. I did discover the coolant leak, but it took me a while to find. I suspect that it has been there for a while, and maybe the water loss that I was seeing was more to do with this issue than head lift, but time will tell.

    Now you see it:
    WhatsApp Image 2017-08-17 at 10.33.55.jpeg

    Now you don't:
    WhatsApp Image 2017-08-17 at 10.34.19.jpeg

    But with the car finally back together and behaving, I could load it up for the camping trip!
    WhatsApp Image 2017-08-19 at 11.18.13.jpeg

  5. #185
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    I have not put many miles on the car yet to see exactly what the end result is, but so far my obervations are:

    The gearbox is awesome. I am really enjoying changing gear again! I am doing things that I simply haven't been able to do for years, like selecting 1st without effort and before I come to a stop. Changing into 2nd easily even when the gearbox is cold. It is awesome. Have I mentioned it is awesome?

    The stage 3 clutch is actually not that much more grabby than the stage 2 but feels a lot more capable. I do have to think a little bit more about biting point and pulling away but it is still useable day to day. If my foot comes up a little too fast you can feel that this clutch has more potential to cope with the abuse. It hasn't had abuse yet - I have only today exceeded the 300 miles bedding in range.

    The cams are obviously aiding the breathing of the engine. My AFRs had been tuned to 11.5ish and since the rebuild are more like 12.0 on WOT. The car feels a little more spritely, but I am not sure how much of that is placebo, how much is the slightly lean mix and how much is the cams. I am trying to decide whether to tweak the map a little before the dyno day or not. As I still have a ViPec ECU in the garage I am loathed to spend too much time mapping the stock ECU. I don't think I will have the time or money to sort the ViPec before the rolling road day unfortunately.

    Fundamentally I am enjoying the car a lot at the moment, so hopefully as the clutch beds in and I can start really giving it some beans it will make me smile even longer! The engine has had a full service, with new cam seals and a new clutch side crank seal, new water pump, spark plugs and obviously cambelt. The gearbox is as new and the transfer box has new fluid in it. From a service point of view maybe the rear diff could do with a fluid change, but the oil in here has not done a lot of miles and it should still be well within spec... So roll on the next big paycheck so I can go and see for a ViPec fit and initial tune!

  6. #186
    MarkSanne's Avatar

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    Awesome! Great to see you retain and probably even strengthen the love for these cars

  7. #187
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    Great job Nick. Still love these cars and reading about them.... even though I've not owned one for 8 years.

  8. #188
    Adam.Findlay's Avatar

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    good to see those cams being put to use. keep me informed of what power it makes if you do put it on a dyno
    WHP none of this flywheel estimate nonsense if possible.

  9. #189
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam.Findlay View Post
    good to see those cams being put to use. keep me informed of what power it makes if you do put it on a dyno
    WHP none of this flywheel estimate nonsense if possible.
    It is going on the dyno in 9 days. I will certainly try to get wheel horsepower - I much prefer that as a measure too. I am thinking that I will not modify the tune in any way this time, then the result should be vaguely comparable to the last time it was on the dyno. Then the tune can come at a later date with the Vipec.

    Thanks for all the positive comments chaps!

  10. #190
    swinks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Mann View Post

    Then I took the gearbox to Transmission Dynamics - Clive.W on the lancer register (mlr) forums. His knowledge of the W5M5 gearbox is encyclopaedic. He told me it would be a while before he could properly strip and inspect the box,
    so whilst I was waiting for the bad news, I took the plunge and started tackling the cambelt and cam swap. I bought a tool similar to one I had borrowed from @swinks before (Thank you sir!) which allows you to pressurise the cylinder through the spark plug hole.
    No worries Nick, you're always welcome!
    Regarding tools, I've found that few specific for a job will save you much swear and hassle. Must have are... cam gears locks, valve spring compression tool, and lash adjuster pry tool.

    Talking about clutch, good to know that Stage 3 operates close to stock feeling. I have Stage 2, which is stock feeling and I was told by Simon Norris and Gaz from CPP that this clutch will be enough for 500/500. And for now, I'm really happy with that clutch.

    Anyway, enjoy!
    Ex: Galant VR4
    Running 268 HP ATW and 443 Nm torque at 0.9 bar
    Now: Lancer Evolution 8 FQ-300
    Running 325 HP ATW and 510 Nm torque at 1.6 bar

  11. #191
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    So, updating the thread with the rolling road result:

    I have made no changes to the tune since the car was last rolling roaded in 2014, although I have serviced the car this year (whilst doing the cams) and had the gearbox refurbished. The simple numbers are that the car made 10.4hp more than in 2014 at the fly, but importantly for me, 16hp more at the wheels. The only reason I can think of that the wheel number improved more than the fly number is that the gearbox bearings are new. The car is running well, feels nice and spritely but still has more to come - the boost is slightly down compared to 2014 for example. Adam might be able to say more, but my understanding is that the cams are allowing the engine to breathe more, so there is less restriction for the turbos to push against. The lower restriction leads to a drop in boost, all other things being equal.

    In 2014 my boost hit 1.0bar at approx 3650rpm, this year approx 4100rpm.
    In 2014 max boost was approx 1.15bar at 4800rpm, this year approx 1.15bar at 5000rpm.
    In 2014 my boost was over 0.9bar from 3400 to 6600rpm, this year 3600 to 6200rpm.

    They managed to print my power curves side by side with the 2014 ones, so you can see the relative change in torque and power before and after. There has been three years between runs, but I believe the car was healthy in both cases and has had no significant work other than the gearbox and cams in the interim. Unfortunately the numbers are fly on the graph, not wheels, but the comparison is obviously still good. So now I have to decide what is next - tinker with the stock ecu some more or find the cash for the Vipec install!

    Image (34).jpg

    Image (35).jpg

  12. #192
    swinks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Mann View Post
    So, updating the thread with the rolling road result:

    I have made no changes to the tune since the car was last rolling roaded in 2014, although I have serviced the car this year (whilst doing the cams) and had the gearbox refurbished. The simple numbers are that the car made 10.4hp more than in 2014 at the fly, but importantly for me, 16hp more at the wheels. The only reason I can think of that the wheel number improved more than the fly number is that the gearbox bearings are new. The car is running well, feels nice and spritely but still has more to come - the boost is slightly down compared to 2014 for example. Adam might be able to say more, but my understanding is that the cams are allowing the engine to breathe more, so there is less restriction for the turbos to push against. The lower restriction leads to a drop in boost, all other things being equal.
    Bang on money Nick. Fresh gearbox - more wheel ponys indeed.
    Later boost rise and all powerband moved slightly up the revs is down to camshaft profile. Now, if you are obsessed with takling torque and power to low range you can play with dialling cam gears, but that adds another big money spending and not sure if it's worth chasing 500 rpm in V6 case.

    Good figures tho!

  13. #193
    Mark 4's Avatar

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    There are some adjustable cam pulleys kicking around. There was a group buy a few years ago.

    It may be worth starting a WTB if you want to Nick.

  14. #194
    Nick Mann's Avatar

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    Nah, those aren't on my radar yet. If I want a bit more torque I will get more aggressive with the boost solenoid duty cycles at lower rev ranges! At the moment I am just enjoying driving it.

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