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Thread: Radiator Fan Duty cycle map

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    Radiator Fan Duty cycle map

    Hi all,

    I suspect I found the Radiator Fan Duty cycle map!!! I took the reference from EVO site(http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ecu...onditions.html), and searched from our VR4 map hex data, I found a similar map from my M/T ROM map.

    Here is the xml code:

    <table name="Thermo Fan Duty" category="Miscellaneous" address="124b0" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
    <table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
    <data>On1</data>
    <data>On2</data>
    <data>On3</data>
    <data>Off1</data>
    <data>Off2</data>
    <data>Off3</data>
    <data>A/C1</data>
    <data>A/C2</data>
    <data>A/C3</data>
    </table>
    <table name="Engine Temp" address="2d0d6" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

    and got this:
    FanDutyCycleMap.jpg




    So, if it is our map, what is the meaning by On1, On2.... A/C3, etc? Would anyone take the risk to change the duty cycle and see it is correct map address or not?

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    Radiator Fan Duty cycle map

    There are a load of tables marked up as fans at the bottom of Kenneth's 1.03 rom but they do not work. There is a switch on and switch off number for the fans They are marked up as untested.
    I tried them all.
    I adjusted what was supposed to be the switch on and off point for the fans to make them work at a lower temp. one of the tables did something to engine perameters and made the car stall.
    At this point I said to myself that is enough they don't do anything related to fan operation so I was not going to adjust them again.

    My point is have a look at them in Kenneth's rom 1.03 and see if they are addressing same point as the ones you are looking at.
    Be carefull

    Sent from my space-aged gizmo

    Bye for Now!

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    Kenneths 1.03 foundings were said to be faulty and I think that theyre whole different addresses? I didn't have any idea that these are actually controlled by duty cycle. We will take a look of these are the same values in Kenneths 1.03.
    -00 Galant Vr4 Type-V
    + Equipped with Type-S arches, genuine wind deflectors. only thing missing is the sunroof
    + Red interior with recaro front seats
    + Momo steering wheel
    + 600x300 FMIC, Custom hardpipes
    + Custom Downpipe+ Fujitsubo Legalis Super R slighlty modified/Custom catback + custom decat + Custom air intake with big K&N cone filter
    + BC Racing Coilovers
    + Advan RCII 17"x7,5 rims
    + Flexifuel /Gasoline + Ethanol E85, 850 cc injectors
    + Manual conversion with evo clutch (a standard clutch)
    + 2 x TD04-13T
    + Adam's 262 -cams
    + Xenon -projectors
    + Carbon fibre hood
    + About 450bhp/ 570Nm at the moment....with stock internals and clutch...

  4. #4
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    Actually, I checked the wiring diagram for VR4 manual, and the fan control module shows that there is MOSFET inside. If using MOSFET, most likely, it is kind of switching on-off-on-off.... etc. In other word, the fan controller module, or the hedgehog, it is a power switching circuit inside, by converting the PWM signal(5v) from the ECU to the fan(12v), the fan controller will output the on-off-on-off to the fan. Therefore, using the duty cycle to control the speed of the fan.

    Anyway, I did some tests today, and I got something good result. I read through the thread from EVO site and found that those columns represents main fan, A/C fan in different speed. But the problem is, EVO has 2 table, 1 for "stationary", and 1 for "moving". I search our whole rom and cannot find any similar table as EVO for the "stationary", so I assume we only have 1 table for our VR4. So i revised the xml, as this:

    <table name="Thermo Fan Duty" category="Miscellaneous" address="124b0" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
    <table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
    <data>Main Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 80->>kph</data>
    </table>
    <table name="Engine Temp" address="2d0d6" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>


    Next step, I use Evoscan, and get the log. Searched from internet about the MUT-II, and found that the request ID 84 represents Thermo Fan Duty, I added new item into the Evoscan and went out for a quick test and took the log. Finally, I got something readable from request ID 84, and guess what, the values are close to the fan duty cycle map I found. For example,

    0kph, 93c, 35% fan duty cycle
    14kph, 91c, 30%
    56kph, 91c, 0%
    82kph, 92c, 0%
    12kph, 91c, 30%

    You can see from the pictures below. Next, I will update the duty cycle in the map, and do some real test, but need find some spare time first. If it works, hopefully, can keep the water temp about 5-10c lower, by increasing the duty cycle and make the fan runs faster.

    FanDuty2.jpg

    NewEvoscanItem.jpg

    05.jpg

    04.jpg

    03.jpg

    02.jpg

    01.jpg

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    That's fantastic news! Well done on the tests so far, and this would be an amazing addition to the ROM definition file, to be able to tweak with these settings, and get the fan to come on faster a bit sooner.

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    Which also means I might be able to utilise the A/C fan output as a secondary fan controller to control one of my fans to draw air through my chargecooler radiator! (I don't have A/C)

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    I guess not. Our main fan and A/C fan are both connected in parallel, so both fans are running from the same controller output.


    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    Which also means I might be able to utilise the A/C fan output as a secondary fan controller to control one of my fans to draw air through my chargecooler radiator! (I don't have A/C)

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    Ah, of course... there are 2 outputs on the hedgehog, but only a single signal wire feeding it... a silly (unthoughtout) comment!!

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    Or you can buy an aftermarket fan controller module for your charge cooler radiator fan, those use water temp sensor as input to make the fan turns fast or slow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kc427 View Post
    Actually, I checked the wiring diagram for VR4 manual, and the fan control module shows that there is MOSFET inside. If using MOSFET, most likely, it is kind of switching on-off-on-off.... etc. In other word, the fan controller module, or the hedgehog, it is a power switching circuit inside, by converting the PWM signal(5v) from the ECU to the fan(12v), the fan controller will output the on-off-on-off to the fan. Therefore, using the duty cycle to control the speed of the fan.

    Anyway, I did some tests today, and I got something good result. I read through the thread from EVO site and found that those columns represents main fan, A/C fan in different speed. But the problem is, EVO has 2 table, 1 for "stationary", and 1 for "moving". I search our whole rom and cannot find any similar table as EVO for the "stationary", so I assume we only have 1 table for our VR4. So i revised the xml, as this:

    <table name="Thermo Fan Duty" category="Miscellaneous" address="124b0" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
    <table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
    <data>Main Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 80->>kph</data>
    </table>
    <table name="Engine Temp" address="2d0d6" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>


    Next step, I use Evoscan, and get the log. Searched from internet about the MUT-II, and found that the request ID 84 represents Thermo Fan Duty, I added new item into the Evoscan and went out for a quick test and took the log. Finally, I got something readable from request ID 84, and guess what, the values are close to the fan duty cycle map I found. For example,

    0kph, 93c, 35% fan duty cycle
    14kph, 91c, 30%
    56kph, 91c, 0%
    82kph, 92c, 0%
    12kph, 91c, 30%

    You can see from the pictures below. Next, I will update the duty cycle in the map, and do some real test, but need find some spare time first. If it works, hopefully, can keep the water temp about 5-10c lower, by increasing the duty cycle and make the fan runs faster.

    FanDuty2.jpg

    NewEvoscanItem.jpg

    05.jpg

    04.jpg

    03.jpg

    02.jpg

    01.jpg
    excellent results there.
    I have a switch inside the car that use to switch on the extra intercooler fans i have fitted and the radiator fans at the same time and you just need to ground the black wire coming out of the hedgehog with a realy and switch.
    so i can switch them on when giving it some beans.

  11. #11
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    Updated: Changed the fan duty cycle on the map, and then using Evoscan to read the fan speed, the values are matched. Now, I am running about 5 degree C less than original temperature.

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    where in the xml did you put the new table definition?
    or does it not matter and you can stick it at the bottom out of the way.

    let me ask some nubie questions about adding code to the xml file.

    the table for the fan control has been available in the rom file since we could read the rom file.
    and it is only because you are telling the xml file to look at a specific memory address and form a table arounrd that address location that the a table data is readable.
    so now you know where the table is in the rom and what locations the data is, you can make the data contained within that table available to manipulate.
    so now ecuflash can display the table and the contents and it is a simple process of changing the values in the table to change the function of the fans operation.

    so if i copy and paste the code that you posted up to the bottom of the xml it will make the fan control table available to modify.

    does the location of the code affect the location of the table in the ecuflash rom window.
    e.g. if add the code at the bottom of the xml file it will be at the bottom of the rom in ecuflash.

    i am asking all this because i have modified roms data but never modified the xml to add additional features. so i want to make sure i am going to be doing the correct thing.

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    I tried this also. Now fan activates more often when I gave bigger duty cycles to the values in general. I think that the fan should have a 100% dutycycle when water temp is 100 °C.

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    I just put the extra code into the vr4base.xml file, and actually, you can put the code anywhere, but must be within the first line <rom> and last line </rom>.

    So, I simply put the extra code just before the last line </rom>:

    eg,

    ......

    <table name="Thermo Fan Duty" category="Miscellaneous" address="124b0" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
    <table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
    <data>Main Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 80->>kph</data>
    </table>
    <table name="Engine Temp" address="2d0d6" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

    </rom>


    Note: the above </rom> is the last line of the original vr4base.xml file. After save the file, then open the ECUFlash again and open the rom file, and you will see the new map table at the end of the left column.


    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    where in the xml did you put the new table definition?
    or does it not matter and you can stick it at the bottom out of the way.

    let me ask some nubie questions about adding code to the xml file.

    the table for the fan control has been available in the rom file since we could read the rom file.
    and it is only because you are telling the xml file to look at a specific memory address and form a table arounrd that address location that the a table data is readable.
    so now you know where the table is in the rom and what locations the data is, you can make the data contained within that table available to manipulate.
    so now ecuflash can display the table and the contents and it is a simple process of changing the values in the table to change the function of the fans operation.

    so if i copy and paste the code that you posted up to the bottom of the xml it will make the fan control table available to modify.

    does the location of the code affect the location of the table in the ecuflash rom window.
    e.g. if add the code at the bottom of the xml file it will be at the bottom of the rom in ecuflash.

    i am asking all this because i have modified roms data but never modified the xml to add additional features. so i want to make sure i am going to be doing the correct thing.

  15. #15
    kc427's Avatar

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    yeah, I also set 100% at 101°C in the first column, then 103°C in second column, and 104°C in third column.


    But one problem is, I cannot confirm the exact behavior about the columns, so I just copied the column name from EVO 7-9 table. So from the left, column 1-3 refer to fan duty when A/C is off, column 4-6 are when A/C is ON, column 7-9, unknown , don't know when will use these column 7-9



    Quote Originally Posted by lateshow View Post
    I tried this also. Now fan activates more often when I gave bigger duty cycles to the values in general. I think that the fan should have a 100% dutycycle when water temp is 100 °C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kc427 View Post
    I just put the extra code into the vr4base.xml file, and actually, you can put the code anywhere, but must be within the first line <rom> and last line </rom>.

    So, I simply put the extra code just before the last line </rom>:

    eg,

    ......

    <table name="Thermo Fan Duty" category="Miscellaneous" address="124b0" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
    <table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
    <data>Main Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 0-50kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 50-80kph</data>
    <data>A/C Fan 80->>kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 0-50kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 50-80kph</data>
    <data>Main+A/C 80->>kph</data>
    </table>
    <table name="Engine Temp" address="2d0d6" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

    </rom>


    Note: the above </rom> is the last line of the original vr4base.xml file. After save the file, then open the ECUFlash again and open the rom file, and you will see the new map table at the end of the left column.
    That is brilliant work there kenneth, and thank you very much for taking the time to explain what would be very obvious to you, but it puts my mind at rest and gives me the confidence to sdd this code to my def file.

    rep comming your way for being so helpful and sharing your findings

  17. #17
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    no problem. Hopefully, someone can put this into the "official" xml of the ECUFlash, so that everyone can set the % on newer version of the ECUFlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    That is brilliant work there kenneth, and thank you very much for taking the time to explain what would be very obvious to you, but it puts my mind at rest and gives me the confidence to sdd this code to my def file.

    rep comming your way for being so helpful and sharing your findings

  18. #18
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    added it to me VR4base def file and i can see the table and i am sure it will work perfectly

    thanks again

    dave

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    you know what, I have an upgrade planning. Probably some of your guys are using SPAL radiator fan. But the standard installation only uses relay and water temp switch, so the fan either ON or OFF. SPAL has an official PWM fan switch, so it can control the fan in few level of speed. But this PWM fan switch is expensive, so I am thinking to DIY a fan controller module, similar to the original hedgehog, but can handle higher current that SPAL fan uses(maybe upto 40-50A). Final aim is to use the thermo fan mapping table to adjust the % with the us of SPAL radiator fan. Anyway, it would be a long term project for me, because there is less information about DIY a fan controller module, hahahah.....

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    sound interesting but for now it will be good to ensure my fans come on at as lower temp as possible.

    So i will be setting the 1-3 columns to
    88° to 50%
    90° to 75%
    92° and above to 100%

    primarily for track session to ensure the engine gets max cooling at all times.

    i will also connect my aux intercooler fans to switch on at the same time as the rad fans so the air flow through the rads will be controllable and those of use with map switching will be able to have an ultimate track map and have the fans on all the time to keep engine temps under control.

    i am so happy this fan control has been added to the available tables to adjust.
    Last edited by Davezj; 09-07-2016 at 11:14 AM.

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