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Thread: My attempt to rebuild VR4 engine

  1. #21
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    This thread shows you how to select the correct bearing based on the origin build of the engine.
    https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showth...hlight=bearing
    but this is only applicable if all you engine crank shaft and conrod big ends are within the original manufacturers specification.

    i did not find anayama any cheaper or quicker than going to the main mitsi dealer
    Last edited by Davezj; 30-03-2020 at 03:53 PM.

    Bye for Now!

  2. #22
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    crank journal size
    1. 2
    2. 2
    3. 2
    4. 3

    Cylinder block bearing bore size
    1. 2
    2. 2
    3. 2
    4. 1

    bearing is read from the table in the manual.
    Crank journal bearing required is size
    1. 4
    2. 4
    3. 4
    4. 4

    this is the page you need for the conrod big end bearing size.
    https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/attach...4&d=1510414217

    this is easier to work out but you have to get them in the correct order.
    top row left, top row right, middle row left , middle row right, bottom row left, bottom row middle. (bottom row right is a check digit not a size).
    1. top row left
    2. top row right
    3. middle row left
    4. middle row right
    5. bottom row left
    6. bottom row middle

    you just need the number off the other end of the crank shaft on the counter weight as in this picture which was from my crank.
    https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showth...hlight=bearing
    https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showth...hlight=bearing

    but as i said above this is only true if you are build the engine back to factory specs and you can only do this if all your measurements are within factory limits.
    if you are wanting to use after market pistons , rings, rods or after market crank bearings, you will have to get things bored and honed and ground to get the correct sizes for the after market parts.
    Last edited by Davezj; 30-03-2020 at 04:55 PM.

  3. #23
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    i have a very useful spreadsheet i created to store all the measurements in, and it automatically calculates if you are within factroy tolerances, above, or below, or right at the edge of what is acceptable.
    it also has useful manual pages stored in it and tells you how and where to make the measurements.

    someof the limits and the measurements are not 100% verified but they are the only limits i found from various sources.

    i am pretty sure i finished it.

    i did not want to release it to the general masses until i was 100% sure that all the info contained within is absolutely verified.
    Last edited by Davezj; 30-03-2020 at 04:58 PM.

  4. #24
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    oh by the way the dishwasher is your friend. all you engine parts can go in there and they will come out sparkling clean if you enough tablets i used about 4-6 on every group.
    bare engine block
    two heads
    crank and pistons
    4 cam shafts.

    valves i use bench brinder with wire wheel and the valve in a drill.
    lash adjusters ultra sonic tank a fter drillout the side hole to 2mm.
    plus lots of clutch and brake cleaner in an air compressor washing gun.

    i have a dishwasher in the back garden for washing engine parts.
    which you can use if you want.
    although the heads were originally done in the kitchen dishwasher with 6 tablets late at night after vicky had gone to bed, just to see if they would be cleaned by a standard dishwasher. amazing result.
    i just dropped lucky as a neighbour was getting rid of an old dishwasher after a kitchen refit, it worked great.
    i have not used the garden dishwasher since last year so i will have to test it but it has been under a tarp in the garden.
    Last edited by Davezj; 30-03-2020 at 04:53 PM.

  5. #25
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    WOW what a response, glad you still so informative, so looks like i was right and pick size nr 4 for all mains, 5xnr 2 1xnr3 for con rods
    91575266_3351380341556562_1687293166547369984_n.jpg


    This engine will be rebuild on original parts, old pistons, rings, rods and all, obviously will fit new main and rods bearings, oil seals on both sides of crank, new head gaskets head skimmed and valve regrind and new cambelt and couple other bits while im there, basically plan is to drop it in and forget. If successful then replaced engine will be refurbed with all above plus new pistons with ring re bored but lets focus on this 1st one for now.
    It will be great if you can pop in at some point and check clearances before I made order, I did check some and it was still within factory spec, no surprise there as engine have only about 100k km on it while start to knock.
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  6. #26
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    ok, so the big end bearings size will be,

    1. 2
    2. 2
    3. 2
    4. 2
    5. 2
    6. 3

    i think from memory the smallest size (size 1) can sometime be referred to as the STD (standard size). Anything else is none standard and might be a little more difficult to get hold of, be that i mean might take a little time to get shipped to you. you can get complete sets of STD bearings on ebay for not a lot of money and relatively quickly. but it looks like you are in the same boat as me and you engine did not use many of the STD bearings.
    Last edited by Davezj; 30-03-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    ok, so the big end bearings size will be,

    1. 2
    2. 2
    3. 2
    4. 2
    5. 2
    6. 3

    i think from memory the smallest size (size 1) can sometime be referred to as the STD (standard size). Anything else is none standard and might be a little more difficult to get hold of, be that i mean might take a little time to get shipped to you. you can get complete sets of STD bearings on ebay for not a lot of money and relatively quickly. but it looks like you are in the same boat as me and you engine did not use many of the STD bearings.
    By big end you mean con rod bearings? as usually 'big end' is the main ones called, anyway there's not an issue (according to amayama) to get any size bearing for con rods, only issue is the main ones they need month to get them but whats worrying me is it may end up NLA (not longer available) and then im stuck for good, so my main aim is to order them first and see if they arrive then I can carry on ordering rest, but b4 I make order I need to be 100% sure which size to get and to be sure I (read we) need to meet and measure crank and bores in block, what do you think Dave?

  8. #28
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    yeh you need to measure all the crank journals, the crank big end journals, the crank bore, the cylinder bore at 3 point vertically in every cylinder at the X and Y locations for each cylinder which means 6 measurements on every cylinder. piston measurements primarily at the skirt. the piston ring end gaps. the piston ring side gap on the piston. plus i am sure i have missed a few.
    there is a days worth of measurement and weighing that needs to happen before you will know if the engine is something you can rebuild to factory specs. Then there is the cleaning which will take a couple of days to do. everything needs to very clean before you start rebuilding anything.

    i have everything needed to do this but it will take time to do properly.

  9. #29
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    Hi @adaxo,
    you will have to measure your crank conrod, journals cylinder bores before you order the bearing to ensure any of the components have not warn past there factory limits otherwise you might have to order differnet size bearings. are you going to order piston rings as well? i did not order these as i measured mine and they were in spec. which was good.
    i just removed them and cleaned everything.

    you will have to clean all the holes in the crank shaft, the conrods, the piston skirts the wrist pis on the pistons. the block oil galleries (well as much as i could) the squirters.
    the only thing i did not do which i will do next time is drill out all the ball bearings in the ends of oil galleries and re tap for a bolt and use Dowty seal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonded_seal) to make an oil tight seal around the bolt treads, or for the crank use grub screw with thread lock for the crank to close them up.
    the amount a crap that i scraped out of the crankshaft oil ways was insane. i had to dig it out with a screw driver down the hole, just like the crap that came out of the shaft in the gear box once all the gears were removed.
    a very useful tool to have a set of ultra fine wire cleaning brushes (bottle brush style) to get into the holes in the conrods, pistons (behind the rings), rocker arms oil squirters for cam lobes, the oil squirters for the cylinder bores. most of these will be blocked to certain degree and some may be blocked completely. the cylinder bore squirters have a sping valve inside them like a preload plunger so the bearing is not starved of oil while the cylinder bores are coated. oil from the conrod big end journal passed through the conrod itself and squirted upward on the back of the piston to cool it down.

    i have a complete set of picture explaining how the oiling system works in a 6A13TT engine form sump pickup to the pressure control valves in the end of the lash adjuster oil ways. the ones that squirt the oil up at the oil fill cap.

    cleanliness is you friend when rebuilding and engine from bare block if it is not spotlessly clean it will fail due to the smallest bit of grit getting into the engines bearing.

    sorry for rambling on but it is very importat to know what you are starting with before you rebuild an engine with the original parts.
    it is completely different if you are using new after market parts as you will be regrinding all the old surfaces (journals, cylinder bores, etc) to fit the new parts anyway.

  10. #30
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    Fully agree with cleanliness, its very if not most important while assembly, they must be a reason why new GTR engine is assembled in looks like sterile room, i will try my best to clean it as far as i can as this is just time consuming proces which I have plenty now, not so costly or complicated, so will do what I can then will go back later and do it again, kind of this approach is good
    Measuring wise, yes I know what you saying, all need to be measured to spec, and it is mandatory when you build new engine or say from new aftermarket parts, then you have to be 100% sure that you have right clearance, basically rechecking jobs done by others, like engine bore/crank grinding shop or piston manufacturer, in my rebuild I will use the same spec parts as factory hence can relax a bit, what I trying to say, this engine fail on 3th rod bearing, not so bad as it was still driven and quiet on idle, just knock at about 3k rpm, its done about 100k km and spend only couple months on UK soil, its a very god condition inside, of course oil rings has been stuck in piston, and there is a bit of crud there and there but realistically i don't think its much wear on it, so far I do check rings in bores and they still in spec so not see reason why I shouldn't reuse them, of course with the same rings on the same pistons in the same bores. Same story with bearings, I do change them as one on cyl 3 was damaged so I will use new ones on all cylinders and will change mains 'while im there' as they all still in decent condition but will be replaced to give engine new lease of life.

    Will put lots of pictures there while doing this bit by bit and as always looking for your opinion as it matters.

    stay tune :-)

  11. #31
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    give me a shout and we can discuss you build. Plus tools and spreadsheet to keep track of all your measurements, etc

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    give me a shout and we can discuss you build. Plus tools and spreadsheet to keep track of all your measurements, etc
    Sure Dave, you the only one known to me to do exactly this job successfully. Few tools arrived so I'm getting ready for weekend to clean some crap, oh hang on, seems like it's weekend past 3 weeks :-)

    15862635007482177797063176523040.jpg

  13. #33
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    Are you doing you engine this weekend?
    If so, i might be doing mine as well from the black vr4. i will have to remove the engine form the car before i start on my engine.
    you are more than welcome to bring all your parts round here to chuck them through the dishwasher in the back garden, they will come up sparkling, but it takes a while to go through a full cycle of the dishwasher. you can fit the block in there.
    chuck the parts on the dishwasher then blow them off with compressed air while still hot, then give them a blow over with wd40 to stop them rusting.

    i would say bagging and tagging every last nut and washer is the best way to ensure you are not struggling on the rebuild side to find all the little bits you need to put it all back together. so plastic bags and determinant marker will ensure you know where everything goes.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    Are you doing you engine this weekend?
    If so, i might be doing mine as well from the black vr4. i will have to remove the engine form the car before i start on my engine.
    you are more than welcome to bring all your parts round here to chuck them through the dishwasher in the back garden, they will come up sparkling, but it takes a while to go through a full cycle of the dishwasher. you can fit the block in there.
    chuck the parts on the dishwasher then blow them off with compressed air while still hot, then give them a blow over with wd40 to stop them rusting.

    i would say bagging and tagging every last nut and washer is the best way to ensure you are not struggling on the rebuild side to find all the little bits you need to put it all back together. so plastic bags and determinant marker will ensure you know where everything goes.
    Its all been bagged and tagged from day one, thank god for that as after 3 years I wouldn't know what's what but I did go through all bags now and it all seems fine.

    Thanks for your very kind offer to use dish washer, need to see whats plans are and may pop in but this lock down its getting serious now with £60 fines not sure how I can explain to cop that my journey is essential :-)

  15. #35
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    yes i know what you mean about the travelling.

  16. #36
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    My engine is out now. Hope fully it will just be the head gaskets that need doing.

  17. #37
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    @adaxo, Adam,/
    have you decided where to get your crank and con rod bearing s from?

    i have got a shopping list for amayama but the shipping will be 2 to 6 weeks.
    the problem with amayam is you have to add shipping and VAT and Duty to prices you see
    i am going to try to get mitsi UK to quote on the shopping list. to see what they come up with.

    have you tried anywhere else.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    @adaxo, Adam,/
    have you decided where to get your crank and con rod bearing s from?

    i have got a shopping list for amayama but the shipping will be 2 to 6 weeks.
    the problem with amayam is you have to add shipping and VAT and Duty to prices you see
    i am going to try to get mitsi UK to quote on the shopping list. to see what they come up with.

    have you tried anywhere else.
    Nope, I was trying to find aftermarket bearings but all big players (http://www.king-catalog.com, kolbenschmidt) not bother to made replacement for 6A13, AFAIK genuine bearings are made by TAIHO but I cant find retailer of they products, so after 2 evenings of looking web I decide to go with amayama, not purchased yet, just give up searching, you may have a bigger luck, give me a shout if you find aftermarket big end bearing available for 6A13 and when you contact with dealer please ask them for MD344360 mains nr 4, 4 sets, for mine, if they less than £15 set and not 6 months waiting time, I take them.

  19. #39
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    I will let you know when i contact the main dealer later today

    so do you want 4 crank bearing of size 4, part number MD344360?

  20. #40
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    i have spoken to a an open mitsi dealer in KENT and they can order the parts for us and post them out wen they arrive in the UK.
    i have asked for delivery times on the all the parts so i will seeif he can get your crank bearings any quicker than you have been promised.
    the dealer prices are plus VAT but are equal to and some times cheaper than the Amayama price quoted on the web site which is pre VAT and Duty.
    so hopefully the shipping will not be to bad, is there anything else you need for your build, it might be worth buying through the mail dealer.

    he also said he could check with all the other main dealers in the UK to see if there is any stock anywhere sitting on the the shelf. which he could get hold of much quicker.

    can you confirm the Crank bearing part number above, i have asked for 4 of the MD344360 bearings for delivery time.

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