Head gasket fail can you see the breach from th pics

[Davezj]

I have never recall looked at head gasket failures before so I am not sure where the breach has occured, all i know is i was getting combustion gasses into the cooling system. I there an obvious location.
i have an idea but i want to see if anyone else thinks it is the same place.

the pictures were taken as i removed the heads.
top of block with gasket in place
top of block with gaskeot removed
top of gasket
bottom of gasket
cylinder bores.

the side of the gasket with the rust on is the bottom of the gasket as it rests on the block, you can see where the gasket blocks some of the water so they do not reach the head.

please comment on the pics and give your opinion especially if you have experienced a head gasket fail on a VR4.



Front back of cylinders:-

IMG_20170924_151148.jpgIMG_20170924_151157.jpgIMG_20170924_151203.jpgIMG_20170924_151210.jpgIMG_20170924_151251.jpgIMG_20170924_151256.jpgIMG_20170924_151259.jpgIMG_20170924_151306.jpgIMG_20170924_151308.jpgIMG_20170924_151318.jpgIMG_20170924_151322.jpgIMG_20170924_151327.jpgIMG_20170924_151410.jpgIMG_20170924_151422.jpgIMG_20170924_151428.jpgIMG_20170924_151434.jpgIMG_20170924_151526.jpg

[Davezj]

rear bank of cylinders:-

IMG_20170924_155126.jpgIMG_20170924_155142_HDR.jpgIMG_20170924_155149.jpgIMG_20170924_155254.jpgIMG_20170924_155300_HDR.jpgIMG_20170924_155314.jpgIMG_20170924_155319.jpgIMG_20170924_155327.jpgIMG_20170924_155406.jpgIMG_20170924_155412.jpgIMG_20170924_155417.jpgIMG_20170924_155421.jpgIMG_20170924_155425.jpgIMG_20170924_155431.jpgIMG_20170924_155447.jpgIMG_20170924_155454.jpgIMG_20170924_155504.jpgIMG_20170924_155510_HDR.jpgIMG_20170924_155525.jpgIMG_20170924_155535.jpgIMG_20170924_155541.jpgIMG_20170924_155548.jpg

[Davezj]

this is a possible breach location, although there is no actual damage to the gasket there is some odd markings.

the only real odd markings are where the rust marks travel from the coolant ways to the actual cylinder. but it is the middle cylinder on both the front and back banks on the inlet side of the heads.

not sure if this the issue or not i would love to hear what you think.


IMG_20170924_160103.jpgIMG_20170924_160107.jpgIMG_20170924_160119.jpgIMG_20170924_160216.jpgIMG_20170924_160240.jpgIMG_20170924_160302.jpgIMG_20170924_160331.jpgIMG_20170924_160333.jpgIMG_20170924_160411.jpgIMG_20170924_160413.jpgIMG_20170924_160415.jpgIMG_20170924_160432_HDR.jpgIMG_20170924_160513_HDR.jpgIMG_20170924_160515_HDR.jpgIMG_20170924_160543.jpgIMG_20170924_160625.jpgIMG_20170924_160637.jpgIMG_20170924_160640.jpgIMG_20170924_160714.jpgIMG_20170924_160718.jpgIMG_20170924_160733.jpgIMG_20170924_160813.jpgIMG_20170924_160828.jpgIMG_20170924_160834.jpg

[crazydriver81]

That looks pretty similar to what the engine looked, we had in the workshop for a head gasket exchange 3 months ago.

How much bust were you running?

Did you experience anything with the head bolts while undoing them?

[Davezj]

the head bolts were very tight but that is only because when i had the initial issue i cranked the head bolts down to see if it would stop the leak but it did not help.

i was running lots of boost for the td03 it was hitting 1.5bar regularly.
i do know now that the standard stretch bolts do not seem to be able to handle this level of boost.
this is the third engine that has the same issue with buubles in the coolant and all ran 1.5bar of boost for a while so i can resonably assume it is the high boost that has kiiled the head bolts.

however swinks has posted up before the him and kanjja (not sure of spelling) were running 1.8bar boost happily. not sure if they had changed the head bolts or not.
@crazydriver81 did you have any pics of you head gasket fail.

[crazydriver81]

Well, I posted some pics in the thread "trackday overheating" as started by Grid. However, we could not figure out the real "failing" cylinder because we did not find clear marks of where the gasket failed. In fact, car was boosting only up to 0.5 bar and pushed coolant out via overflow tank.

We noticed the head bolts on the rear bank were very loose so we suspected the head lift issue by overstretched head bolts. Additional problem was, as we had been told by the machine shop, that the heads very slightly out and had to be skimmed to become good again.

So I suspect a combination of head lift and the heads being a bit out due to heat (the heads are cast alloy while the block is cast steel)..

[Davezj]

Yes, once I check the heads for flatness just for interest sake to see if there is any warpage there. I will have the heads skimmed anyway.

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[swinks]

however swinks has posted up before the him and kanjja (not sure of spelling) were running 1.8bar boost happily. not sure if they had changed the head bolts or not.

Yup, ARP L19 or H11 (not sure which one) bolts sir!
From your pictures it does look like more than 1 bolt gave up, or rather wasn't tight up properly.

[Davezj]

For the info.
That makes it more clear.
Excellent, puts my mind at rest.

Stronger head bolts/studs are the way to go.


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[Davezj]

OK so here are the head pics.

front head pics

IMG_20170930_153520.jpgIMG_20170930_153527.jpgIMG_20170930_153603.jpgIMG_20170930_153608.jpgIMG_20170930_153616.jpgIMG_20170930_153619.jpgIMG_20170930_155203.jpgIMG_20170930_155209.jpgIMG_20170930_155217.jpgIMG_20170930_160705.jpg

[Davezj]

front head With the gasket area cleaned up a bit

IMG_20170930_161011.jpgIMG_20170930_161016.jpgIMG_20170930_161020.jpgIMG_20170930_161025.jpgIMG_20170930_161748.jpgIMG_20170930_161755.jpg

[Davezj]

rear head pics

IMG_20170930_153535.jpgIMG_20170930_153536.jpgIMG_20170930_153627.jpgIMG_20170930_153634.jpgIMG_20170930_153642.jpgIMG_20170930_155230.jpgIMG_20170930_155236.jpgIMG_20170930_155241.jpgIMG_20170930_160658.jpg

[Davezj]

rear head gasket cleaned up a bit

IMG_20170930_161032.jpgIMG_20170930_161042.jpgIMG_20170930_161051.jpgIMG_20170930_161058.jpg

[Davezj]

i checked the heads for flatness with a straight edge and a 0.05mm (2thou) feeler gauge

the result was i could not get the feeler gauge under the straight edge at any point so i am happy they are flat.

i am still going to get them skimmed but they will not have to take much off which a good thing.

[Davezj]

Here is a question for you all.
What is the dot in the cylinder head chamber.
There is one in every combustion chamber.
I would have thought this would be a potential source for detonation.
Maybe it is sacrificial point in the combustion chamber.

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[Colin Wiltshire]

Here is a question for you all.
What is the dot in the cylinder head chamber.
There is one in every combustion chamber.
I would have thought this would be a potential source for detonation.
Maybe it is sacrificial point in the combustion chamber.

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My guess would be spark plug

[Davezj]

Spark plug?


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[Amonlym]

Injection/ejection pin left over from the mould?
in some pictures it almost looks like its a hole with a plug in it - perhaps its from drilling an oil gallery/passage that then gets blocked?
Or the bottom of a fastener from higher in the head, drilled through to stop it being a blind fit and possibly hydro-locking the fastener in a weak area?

[Davezj]

It is a little peg of metal sticking out from the cylinder chamber.

I am wondering why this would be left in the head where it can cause a detonation hot point.


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[Davezj]

I was thinking a left over casting mark but why has it not been removed at clean up in the factory.

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