Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 60

Thread: Problems after a transmission job.

  1. #21
    elnevio's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Nev
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last Online
    01-03-2024
    Membership ID
    510
    Posts
    17,953
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Gloucester
    Car
    VR-4+Panda+shed
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Tbh, if it's on the line between hot and cold, that should operate fine. Will still be worth trying to get it exactly right though.
    October 2023 fleet status: 100% operational


    | Legnum VR-4S | Fiat Panda 100HP !! | a blue one! | Avensis T-180 | VR-4 parts van! |

    Why not become a full member of CVR4 and enjoy the additional benefits membership brings?! Information here.

  2. #22

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by elnevio View Post
    Tbh, if it's on the line between hot and cold, that should operate fine. Will still be worth trying to get it exactly right though.
    That's a bit concerning then. Still going to order some more oil, but if that's true then it should not be the problem and am a bit out of ideas then. Next step I quess would be to order some sensors and try if those are fried.

  3. #23
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Can you do a recap of what the problem is, now you have checked a lot of things.

    The input and output speed sensors on the top of the gear box are different. One goes straight up and the other is right angle.
    Not sure if they function differently.
    Did you ensure you put them in the correct location?

    Bye for Now!

  4. #24
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Do you still have the same error codes. After a battery disconnect reset of the codes.

  5. #25

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    Can you do a recap of what the problem is, now you have checked a lot of things.

    The input and output speed sensors on the top of the gear box are different. One goes straight up and the other is right angle.
    Not sure if they function differently.
    Did you ensure you put them in the correct location?
    Yes, both sensors should be on correct spots. Checked from both transmission I have and from amayama teardown pictures.

    Just for fool proofing, the one that points upwards should be closer to the front of the car right?

    Got both sensors ordered also so will be changing them next week hopefully.

    So to recant what has been solved and what is left;

    Solved:
    -Boost pressure missing
    -Engine, asc, abs, etc error codes

    Persisting issues:
    -Limp mode
    -Not shifting to third or fourth
    -Transmission error code 43 when going to limp mode

    So today I have been testing the car some and added some transmission oil. Now the level seems to be on the top parts of the hot area when in operating temperature.

    Car seems to behave a bit better.

    This is what happens when I drive it:
    -Starts strong with first gear
    -Smoothish change to second gear and I can hear it changing
    -Dash shows a chabge to third gear
    -No sound of actually changing gear
    -I bit less power than with second gear and revs keep rising when rising speed
    -Dash shows change to fourth gear
    -No sound of actual change
    -Almost no power
    -Revs could keep rising but speed keeps declining

    So what I’m thinking is that it can’t or won’t change to the third gear when the dash shows the change and keeps running on the second gear for some reason. It kinda feels like the higher it tries to change the more the second gear slips and loses power.

    Any ideas? Starting to wonder if it’s really a mechanical fault in the transmission I put together.

  6. #26
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Very odd.
    What is the gearbox number and transmission number and what model of car is it. Pre facelift or facelift and what year is it.
    Just to get all this info in one place.

    I am trying to clarify it you are fitting a later gearbox and ECU into an early car.

  7. #27

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    ECU: MD975141
    Transmission: W5A51-3-E6A

    Car is pre-facelift 1996 with ayc, tcl and the Japan winter spec stuff it seems. Both parts should be the originals from the car. I did out together the transmission while the broken one was also on the table and I used all clutch plates from that one(brand new and seemed to the same as the old box) but otherwise all internals should ve from the original box. Could maybe some specific internal part cause this if it was accidentally from the newer box 🤔.

    Just now tries to change the rear speed sensor with the other used one I have but no difference. For the front the other one has too much damage and can’t be tried on. Broke it when I took it off..

  8. #28
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    So you pulled both gearboxes apart and swapped parts from one to the other.
    do think you might have made a mistake when putting all back together.
    there is a possibility that you have made a mistake as the clutches have to fit only one way round with the correct stacking of the plates with the correct retainers and spring washers. ~
    it not that easy to get it right.


    if the gearbox has been rebuilt incorrectly then there is no telling what is wrong.

    just to recap you are saying the same ecu and gearbox came out of the car and went back into the car but the gear box had some new parts from a different gearbox.

  9. #29

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    The car came with a W5A51-3-E6B transmission installed that was broken but had been in use for some time before breaking. It was rebuilt by someone before it was installed some thousands of kilometers ago.

    W5A51-3-E6A Transmission came with the car in pieces and had been working before it was removed(or so the seller said).

    Both were in pieces when I assembled the W5A51-3-E6A transmission, but at different tables. I put it together according to the workshop manual and swapped the clutch plates to the W5A51-3-E6A transmission from the W5A51-3-E6B transmission. All other internals SHOULD be from the W5A51-3-E6A transmission.

    It’s always a possibility that the plates went on wrong order, as it seems the workshop manual includes transmissions from W5A51-3-E6B onwards and W5A51-3-E6A has quite different stack.

    Was just reading back on the messages the seller sent me before the sale(he was quite confusing) and at one message he mentions that the W5A51-3-E6A was replaced due to it locking to third gear(so same as right now). But W5A51-3-E6B had the same symptoms after it was placed in. The problem according to him was moisture in ECU and drying that had fixed the problem. I think I’ll pign him about it again and see if the symptoms were the same. Also gonna check the workshop manua tomorrow as it had some troubleshooting parts.

  10. #30

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Now that I think about it, it would make sense if the clutch stack is in there wrong. R, P and first to second seem to be working and past that it seems like it’s not getting any traction so it could be that the stack for 3-5 is in wrong order. Got to try and find a correct stack order and check it seems. I’ll first wait for the sensors and if they don’t do anything pull the side of the trans open.

  11. #31
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    that is a possibility.
    i trashed my first gear box but only 1 and 2 were trashed the gear box would grinding 1 and 2 but when it went into 3 ,4 ,5 the gear box was fine.
    so you might have dropped onto the solution.

    i think we have some auto box manuals in the library, they are not the W5A51 but we have W4A51 and another 5 speed which is designed for RWD application.
    so the clutch stack up will probably be the same.
    @eyeballprawn did some work on the wave spring issue that some versions of the auto box have.

  12. #32
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    this might be helpful.

    https://www.areds.com/pdf/RedCatalog.pdf

    have a look at pages 63 to 67 it has an exploded diagram of the W5A51 and parts list.

  13. #33

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Thanks! Need to look into it tomortow and maybe I can say straight away if it’s in the wrong order or something.

  14. #34
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    this might be helpful.

    https://www.areds.com/pdf/RedCatalog.pdf

    have a look at pages 63 to 67 it has an exploded diagram of the W5A51 and parts list.


    this is the location of the alternative engine and transmission manual

    https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showth...anual+auto+box

    Here is another external link to a diagram.

    https://www.automaticchoice.com/en-g...arts-catalogue


    https://www.alltranz.co.nz/shop/driv...itsubishi/20C/


    This is @eyeballprawn thread on OZVR4.com for the wave spring issue.

    https://www.ozvr4.com/threads/streng...he-cheap.8035/

    this is the online ASA page for auto box.

    https://mitsubishi.epc-data.com/legn...2,28266,28268/

    This seems to be a very detailed doc for disassembly and assembly of F5A51 auto box.

    http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/...logs/F5A51.pdf

    here is a video of a F4a51 auto box teardown so you can see someone else do it to 4 speed admittedly but you get the picture.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRaRVs1Ol0Q
    Last edited by Davezj; 19-09-2021 at 10:58 PM.

  15. #35

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Thanks for all the links! That also led me to find a troubleshooting manual for it seems like this transmission and that directed me towards the overdrive or underdrive clutch stack.

    Soo, went and put the car up and pulled the clutch side panel off. Oil prop was covered in metal shavings and oil and it seems like there some amount of it on the bottom of the case too. The planetary gear set didn’t seems like it was the culprit from first glance.

    Clearly there is some mechanical problem going on. Don’t have much time this week to work on it, but will try to get the clutch pack off totally and just hope the shavings are from something on this side of the trans.

    So any ideas on what could give off these shavings and especially stuff that could also make the any gear over second not engage like at all.

    But nice touch is that no big pieces were present. Just some really fine dust combined with oil.

  16. #36
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    The dust as you call it will be friction material. Meaning it is not on your friction plates any more it is in the oil. Any metal shavings in the oil is a very bad thing. If they are big enough to see it is bad.
    Last edited by Davezj; 21-09-2021 at 09:07 AM.

  17. #37
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Quido3 View Post
    Thanks for all the links! That also led me to find a troubleshooting manual for it seems like this transmission and that directed me towards the overdrive or underdrive clutch stack.

    Soo, went and put the car up and pulled the clutch side panel off. Oil prop was covered in metal shavings and oil and it seems like there some amount of it on the bottom of the case too. The planetary gear set didn’t seems like it was the culprit from first glance.

    Clearly there is some mechanical problem going on. Don’t have much time this week to work on it, but will try to get the clutch pack off totally and just hope the shavings are from something on this side of the trans.

    So any ideas on what could give off these shavings and especially stuff that could also make the any gear over second not engage like at all.

    But nice touch is that no big pieces were present. Just some really fine dust combined with oil.
    If you have some other documents on the auto box then return the favour and put them up or post a link to them.

  18. #38

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Hopefully this works. Didn't find the actual link to this one while at work, but this should be the pdf I found.

    Well not exactly as hoped, but you can copy the link and download it still.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    • File Type: pdf 23.pdf (1,010.7 KB, 18 views)
    Last edited by Confused; 21-09-2021 at 09:18 AM.

  19. #39
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    09-01-2024
    Membership ID
    255
    Posts
    16,245
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Quido3 View Post
    The car came with a W5A51-3-E6B transmission installed that was broken but had been in use for some time before breaking. It was rebuilt by someone before it was installed some thousands of kilometers ago.

    W5A51-3-E6A Transmission came with the car in pieces and had been working before it was removed(or so the seller said).

    Both were in pieces when I assembled the W5A51-3-E6A transmission, but at different tables. I put it together according to the workshop manual and swapped the clutch plates to the W5A51-3-E6A transmission from the W5A51-3-E6B transmission. All other internals SHOULD be from the W5A51-3-E6A transmission.

    It’s always a possibility that the plates went on wrong order, as it seems the workshop manual includes transmissions from W5A51-3-E6B onwards and W5A51-3-E6A has quite different stack.

    Was just reading back on the messages the seller sent me before the sale(he was quite confusing) and at one message he mentions that the W5A51-3-E6A was replaced due to it locking to third gear(so same as right now). But W5A51-3-E6B had the same symptoms after it was placed in. The problem according to him was moisture in ECU and drying that had fixed the problem. I think I’ll pign him about it again and see if the symptoms were the same. Also gonna check the workshop manua tomorrow as it had some troubleshooting parts.
    From what you are said here which I did no realise before is the car had a working E6B auto box in the and then that broke. So it had the transmission control unit (TCU) in the car that was compatible with the E6B auto box.
    You have now fitted a E6A auto box and not changed the TCU.
    is this correct?

  20. #40

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    01-02-2024
    Posts
    36
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    From what you are said here which I did no realise before is the car had a working E6B auto box in the and then that broke. So it had the transmission control unit (TCU) in the car that was compatible with the E6B auto box.
    You have now fitted a E6A auto box and not changed the TCU.
    is this correct?
    That is correct, but the TCU was never changed when the B transmission was put in. So for some reason the B was also working with the current TCU. TCU model number matches the one in the database for A unit.
    Last edited by Quido3; 21-09-2021 at 10:00 AM.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. auto/transmission problems...help
    By rajvr497 in forum Gearbox / Transmission
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-01-2014, 02:08 PM
  2. engine mount causing transmission problems?
    By SEAN-NZ in forum Engine
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 16-05-2012, 01:55 PM
  3. Paint Job Problems, Big Problems!!!
    By kinger in forum UK Chat
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 27-03-2010, 02:52 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 22-03-2005, 10:53 PM
  5. Transmission oil
    By Andre in forum General / Questions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 30-09-2004, 08:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •